Maybe Good news for MSU (Maybe Bad)

[johnson86-1]

Haven't seen this talked about much, but the "big beautiful bill" caps graduate student loans and parent plus loans. Not sure the caps on graduate schools matter that much to us, but to the extent our graduate programs are more affordable, they are going to be more competitive now.

But for undergrad, the parent plus loans are capped at $20k per year and $65k max now, so with the stafford loans I think that gives ~$96k max loans for undergrad? So to the extent people need to borrow money for living expenses, basically any school more expensive than state is going to require private loans on top. Might make it harder for us to compete for out of state students that don't have their out of state tuition waived, but not sure how many out of state students are borrowing the max anyway.

Also, there will be earnings accountability measures. Any undergraduate program with graduates earning less than the median salary of a high school graduate in their state will lost access to federal loans. Graduate programs will lose access to federal loans if their graduates earn less than the median bachelor's degree holder in the same field. Not sure those are going to matter that much, but to the extent schools are scraping the bottom of the barrel for students in a state with decent earnings for high school graduates, I guess it could put them at risk.

 

[Duke Humphrey]

Google AI tells me the avg undergrad loan at MSU is $6400

 

[L4Dawg]

It's going to make it a lot harder to get a post grad degree of any kind, but especially professional degrees like MD, DDS/DMD, DVM, or JD.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

It's going to make it a lot harder to get a post grad degree of any kind, but especially professional degrees like MD, DDS/DMD, DVM, or JD.

The cost of attendance at UMC for MDs is over $300K over four years—

School of Medicine - University of Mississippi Medical Center

UMMC School of Medicine estimated COA, tuition

umc.edu

(24-25 numbers)

Say goodbye to good medicine?

 

[Duke Humphrey]

As the OP posted, we stand to benefit as our cost of attendance, particularly housing/living, is much lower than other locations. DVM, Physician's Assistant, Master's of Accelerated Nursing, and soon to be Doctorate of Physical Therapy should all be ok.

 

[L4Dawg]

As the OP posted, we stand to benefit as our cost of attendance, particularly housing/living, is much lower than other locations. DVM, Physician's Assistant, Master's of Accelerated Nursing, and soon to be Doctorate of Physical Therapy should all be ok.

DVM Total cost of attendance for 4 years as of 2023 for in state residents at the MSU vet school is $248,297. Out of state is $352,846. MSU is not ok there.

Cost Comparison Tool - AAVMC

 

[ckDOG]

Would the gap not just get shifted to the private market? Rates will suck since it's a gamble for the lender but I assume borrowing will still be there.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

The cost of attendance at UMC for MDs is over $300K over four years—

School of Medicine - University of Mississippi Medical Center

UMMC School of Medicine estimated COA, tuition

umc.edu

(24-25 numbers)

Say goodbye to good medicine?

There are plenty of MDs in general practice/doc in the box places that could easily be moved to NPs and PAs.

For the sniffles, COVID, ear infections, physicals, etc., NPs and PA should handle these are refer to an MD when necessary.

Heck i’ve seen an NP at MS Sports Med for orthopedic issues.

 

[L4Dawg]

Would the gap not just get shifted to the private market? Rates will suck since it's a gamble for the lender but I assume borrowing will still be there.

For low income students? I think not.

 

[L4Dawg]

There are plenty of MDs in general practice/doc in the box places that could easily be moved to NPs and PAs.

For the sniffles, COVID, ear infections, physicals, etc., NPs and PA should handle these are refer to an MD when necessary.

I's pretty much already that way. This is going to be devastating in poor states.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I's pretty much already that way. This is going to be devastating in poor states.

In Jxn, you’d be surprised how many MDs are see patients who could be seen by a NP/PA.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

In Jxn, you’d be surprised how many MDs are see patients who could be seen by a NP/PA.

Not really.

It’s been my experience that people would rather be seen by a doctor…

 

[L4Dawg]

In Jxn, you’d be surprised how many MDs are see patients who could be seen by a NP/PA.

No, I wouldn't. There are more Docs in a town with a medical school. It's not going to last much longer though. That trend has been ongoing for a while now.

 

[L4Dawg]

Not really.

It’s been my experience that people would rather be seen by a doctor…

That is true, and that will keep a few Docs in the sniffle business....now what insurance companies and government payors will do.....is another subject

 

[johnson86-1]

Would the gap not just get shifted to the private market? Rates will suck since it's a gamble for the lender but I assume borrowing will still be there.

For valuable degrees like an MD, yes. For non-valuable degrees, schools are going to have to figure out how to make it make sense or convert to essentially a luxury good for students who don't need their tuition to act as an investment that makes sense. Most are going to be inbetween, like vet school, where the degree is valuable but they've got to get the cost down to make it make good sense. Partly this can be achieved by getting people in earlier (you probably don't need a full degree to get to vet school, just like medical school; those schools made an undergraduate degree a requirement or de facto requirement because the cost was hidden from students).

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Not really.

It’s been my experience that people would rather be seen by a doctor…

I agree, i mean for the sniffles though, not something serious.

 

[8dog]

I's pretty much already that way. This is going to be devastating in poor states.

Yeah I can’t remember the last time I even tried to see my physician when it was not the annual physical. I imagine I could get in to see the Pope easier.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Another factor we deal with is how often folks go to the dr now. In the 70s/80s we were likely healthier and many folks rarely saw a doctor. After he came back from Korea, my dad didn’t see a doc for another 40 years. My grandmother, who lived to be 96, never took a prescription medication in her life. As a society, we’re over doctored and over medicated.

 

[ckDOG]

For valuable degrees like an MD, yes. For non-valuable degrees, schools are going to have to figure out how to make it make sense or convert to essentially a luxury good for students who don't need their tuition to act as an investment that makes sense. Most are going to be inbetween, like vet school, where the degree is valuable but they've got to get the cost down to make it make good sense. Partly this can be achieved by getting people in earlier (you probably don't need a full degree to get to vet school, just like medical school; those schools made an undergraduate degree a requirement or de facto requirement because the cost was hidden from students).

Good points. I suppose that costs could naturally reduce (schools trim fat / take less margin) due to less money supply/fake demand distorting real markets and some of that gap goes away. That would be a good thing.

Where a gap truly remains and results in harm to the workforce then Congress will have to tweak to exempt certain degrees or states could compete by offering low cost loans/tuition forgiveness to attract needed students to train and hopefully retain in the state.

 

[ckDOG]

I agree, i mean for the sniffles though, not something serious.

Some of this problem is likely the lawyers. I'm sure there are many NPs/PAs that are competent and capable for the bread and butter stuff AND want the extra responsibility. I doubt they want the added liability though or may not even be allowed to take it on to due to insurance requirements and the like. With Docs bearing most of the legal/financial risk, they probably keep the count of NP/PA working for them lower than it otherwise could be. Patient gets pinched in the process for sniffles and such.

 

[L4Dawg]

I agree, i mean for the sniffles though, not something serious.

Yes, a lot of people still want to a doc for the sniffles. I doubt they will be able to much longer.

 

[L4Dawg]

Another factor we deal with is how often folks go to the dr now. In the 70s/80s we were likely healthier and many folks rarely saw a doctor. After he came back from Korea, my dad didn’t see a doc for another 40 years. My grandmother, who lived to be 96, never took a prescription medication in her life. As a society, we’re over doctored and over medicated.

View attachment 838443

And he died of a skin cancer at age 45

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

And he died of a skin cancer at age 45

Ripe age of 86!

 

[L4Dawg]

Ripe age of 86!

I was talking about the guy in your meme.