@mdeer1, with Manchin caving to…

Mntneer

Sophomore
Oct 7, 2001
10,192
196
0
The devil is in the details. Historically tax increases on "corporations" have never gone well for the economy, and certainly don't bring in the revenue expected. No taxes on anyone making under $400k remains to be seen.


The inflation we are going through is caused by like a dozen different things hitting simultaneously. It's a worldwide problem. Completely blaming or completely exonerating Biden is pretty idiotic. He gave out a lot of "free" money, which didn't help, but Trump did, too. Hell, Trump was flipping out at the Fed because they were thinking about raising rates during his administration. It's not like the Republicans weren't all in on easy money themselves. The stimulus packages spanned both administrations. And the economy was potentially about to collapse if they didn't do it, so I get why it was done by both presidents.

For me, we've had two below average presidents in a row. It is what it is. And it's why I appreciate Manchin. He stops every harebrained scheme either of them come up with in its tracks. We need more Machins and McCains. Fewer members of the Borg.

This bill isn't that bad. It's not very big. A fraction of the gargantuan build back better. Will be paid for (remember when bills were paid for before they passed them?) by an increase in corporate taxes. No taxes on anyone making under $400k. Will be awesome for people on Medicare. $2000 oop max. Feds will negotiate medication prices, finally. This is huge. We've been subsidizing the rest of the world's healthcare systems by paying ridiculous drug prices that other countries pay at a fraction of what we pay.

It seems like a lot of give and take took place. And a true centrist was the gatekeeper. I'd rather have Manchin making the call than Schumer, McConnell, Nancy or McCarthy.

I'm looking forward to unbiased analysis of the bill from nonpartisan sources. Which takes time. The cbo isn't magic.

That said... I'm still hoping for Andrew Yang to take over in 2024. #yanggang.
 

D. Denzil Finney

Redshirt
May 29, 2001
9,391
14
0
Manchin pisses off both the far left, communist, AOC led wing of his party and the far right, neofascist, Trump wing of the GOP.

So I rather enjoy him just for the lulz he brings by figuring out how to enrage all of the crazies simultaneously. I hope he stays in the Senate forever.
If you are old enough to remember A. James Manchin, he,Joe, got good lessons on the "gift of gab" from his Uncle A. J.
 

NYC_Eer

Redshirt
Aug 22, 2010
10,631
48
0
While this is strictly technically true...I do believe the theory that they don't want to invest in more infrastructure knowing that the US wants to reduce its dependence on fossil fuel.

Of course, if we built a bunch of nuclear plants and expanded the installation of solar panels to homes, we would have cheaper energy for cars and heating. I don't understand why this isn't the obvious conclusion people arrive at. Depending on fossil fuels is a choice we've made over the last several decades. And we remain at the mercy of hostile actors (Russia, various OPEC members) and wild swings in the international energy market because of it.

We have the technology to split the atom and generate endless electricity. Or, you know, harness that giant ball of gas in the sky that perpetually showers the entire planet with free energy. If every house had a solar panel array and every city a nuclear plant, you would have reliable, cheap energy and reliable, cheap cars that are easier to maintain and accelerate at incredibly fun speeds.
Why isn't obvious? Many on here don't believe in Climate Change. So, there's that. Then you have people on here who live in WV and believe coal is the only way the state can survive. And then you have other folks who don't like change no matter what it is...they like their combustion engine and no one is going to tell them different.

When you're dealing w/ that, does it really surprise you?
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
46,629
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If every house had a solar panel array and every city a nuclear plant, you would have reliable, cheap energy and reliable, cheap cars that are easier to maintain and accelerate at incredibly fun speeds.
Why would I pay for a utility improvement for my home which takes almost 20 years to pay for (this assumes current subsidies)? Especially considering the average rate of time between moves is below the ROI time? How does that math check out for you?

You want me to install solar panels? Allow me to offset the expense as a write off. Solar is too expensive comparatively to energy. The Govt’s solution? Increase regulations to drive up energy costs, not provide sufficient incentives to home owners to make the ROI reasonable. 20 years isn’t reasonable.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,554
733
113
I seriously wonder how many of you actually read into what Manchin negotiated before getting pissed off because Fox News told you to be.

He set things up for legislation to be passed that will open the door for a shale oil pipeline in WV... Something that will do our state far more good at this stage than the dying coal industry.

Don't be a sheep... Think for yourself and do the damn research.
The pipeline would be great but to suggest it is better than the coal industry is a bit of hyperbole. Both sectors need help. Coal is not going away.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,554
733
113
Why isn't obvious? Many on here don't believe in Climate Change. So, there's that. Then you have people on here who live in WV and believe coal is the only way the state can survive. And then you have other folks who don't like change no matter what it is...they like their combustion engine and no one is going to tell them different.

When you're dealing w/ that, does it really surprise you?
What about the people like you who say stupid **** like that obviously having zero clue what they are talking about.

Coal. Fossil fuels. Combustion engines. All here to stay for a long long time.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
46,629
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Why isn't obvious? Many on here don't believe in Climate Change. So, there's that. Then you have people on here who live in WV and believe coal is the only way the state can survive. And then you have other folks who don't like change no matter what it is...they like their combustion engine and no one is going to tell them different.

When you're dealing w/ that, does it really surprise you?
Or, you have people that can do math and realize it takes 15-20 years to meet the ROI just on the solar panels alone. If you don’t time it correctly with a reshingle of your roof, you just incurred a huge expense to reinstall when you reroof.

EVs don’t work for my needs. Period. And again, the ROI exceeds the time of ownership.

It’s just math.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,554
733
113
While this is strictly technically true...I do believe the theory that they don't want to invest in more infrastructure knowing that the US wants to reduce its dependence on fossil fuel.

Of course, if we built a bunch of nuclear plants and expanded the installation of solar panels to homes, we would have cheaper energy for cars and heating. I don't understand why this isn't the obvious conclusion people arrive at. Depending on fossil fuels is a choice we've made over the last several decades. And we remain at the mercy of hostile actors (Russia, various OPEC members) and wild swings in the international energy market because of it.

We have the technology to split the atom and generate endless electricity. Or, you know, harness that giant ball of gas in the sky that perpetually showers the entire planet with free energy. If every house had a solar panel array and every city a nuclear plant, you would have reliable, cheap energy and reliable, cheap cars that are easier to maintain and accelerate at incredibly fun speeds.
Wait.

Your answer is to install a bunch of nuclear plants?

Yikes.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,554
733
113
Or, you have people that can do math and realize it takes 15-20 years to meet the ROI just on the solar panels alone. If you don’t time it correctly with a reshingle of your roof, you just incurred a huge expense to reinstall when you reroof.

EVs don’t work for my needs. Period. And again, the ROI exceeds the time of ownership.

It’s just math.
Solar panels have to be replaced on a schedule too. They are not cheap.

Electric cars are not easier to maintain. Just a lot wrong with all of that. EVs are ridiculously expensive to purchase and maintain.
 

dave

Senior
May 29, 2001
60,554
733
113
The devil is in the details. Historically tax increases on "corporations" have never gone well for the economy, and certainly don't bring in the revenue expected. No taxes on anyone making under $400k remains to be seen.
A tax on corporations is a tax on everyone regardless of their income.
 

wvu2007

Senior
Jan 2, 2013
21,220
457
0
I think he believes this will benefit our state or he wouldn't have agreed to it.

Whether it leads to inflation we will have to see, but my guess would be that he saw data that showed the money being pumped into the economy would be offset by all the other items in there.

I vote for a lot more Republicans than I do Democrats and I truly believe Manchin felt this was the best thing for our state and our country or else he wouldn't have done it... What motivation would he have to risk reelection if it wasn't to try and help his people?
Nah. He is a snake. Joe Biden is a pedophile
 

WVUPharm2007

Senior
Jan 30, 2007
16,739
530
73
How about 2,000,000 barrels production less per day?
The numbers I'm reading online are about 833,000 per day. This is from their website. As well as CNBC, CBS. and several other sources.

And given that several times that have been released from the strategic reserve and prices have only fallen like a dollar (and oil has fallen for other reasons like China using less oil), I question how much of a dent that would really make.
 

WVUPharm2007

Senior
Jan 30, 2007
16,739
530
73
Why would I pay for a utility improvement for my home which takes almost 20 years to pay for (this assumes current subsidies)? Especially considering the average rate of time between moves is below the ROI time? How does that math check out for you?

You want me to install solar panels? Allow me to offset the expense as a write off. Solar is too expensive comparatively to energy. The Govt’s solution? Increase regulations to drive up energy costs, not provide sufficient incentives to home owners to make the ROI reasonable. 20 years isn’t reasonable.

I agree. It is way too overregulated. And there needs to be better subsidies.
 

WVUPharm2007

Senior
Jan 30, 2007
16,739
530
73
If you are old enough to remember A. James Manchin, he,Joe, got good lessons on the "gift of gab" from his Uncle A. J.
I'm not, but I remember at Boys State in 2000 him being frequently mentioned as one of the most skilled politicians the state has ever had. Just from the standpoint of politicking. They made it sound like he could sell a space heater in July.
 

Mdeer

Heisman
Apr 10, 2002
23,870
12,319
87
I'm not against free money in general. The long term problem is still going to be deflation (similar to Japan) as fewer people will be needed over time to do skilled jobs as AI and automation begin to lessen the amount of skilled laborers needed in the economy. And we need to prepare for this. Yang is the only politician that seems to recognize this.

I was just saying that blaming any one person for inflation is sort of ridiculous, especially given that that particular policy was just a continuation of what the previous administrations did.
I can’t take seriously anyone whose plan is to give people an income stipend monthly . It’s so bizarre
 

Airport

All-Conference
Dec 12, 2001
81,088
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113
I give you credit, you called it. I hoped you were wrong but you weren’t
He's a demonrat, it's what they do. Schumer probably promised him his slip that his yacht is parked in would be free till his term is up
 

Airport

All-Conference
Dec 12, 2001
81,088
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While this is strictly technically true...I do believe the theory that they don't want to invest in more infrastructure knowing that the US wants to reduce its dependence on fossil fuel.

Of course, if we built a bunch of nuclear plants and expanded the installation of solar panels to homes, we would have cheaper energy for cars and heating. I don't understand why this isn't the obvious conclusion people arrive at. Depending on fossil fuels is a choice we've made over the last several decades. And we remain at the mercy of hostile actors (Russia, various OPEC members) and wild swings in the international energy market because of it.

We have the technology to split the atom and generate endless electricity. Or, you know, harness that giant ball of gas in the sky that perpetually showers the entire planet with free energy. If every house had a solar panel array and every city a nuclear plant, you would have reliable, cheap energy and reliable, cheap cars that are easier to maintain and accelerate at incredibly fun speeds.
Solar panels belong to the Chinese and are sourced with the dirtiest energy known, lithium. We had the lowest energy costs right before Biden lowered the boom on regulations. I'm all for nuclear, natural gas, coal, solar provided there's little govt support, and building new refineries. Our govt and it's regulations are damaging our country. Let business chose what's best. The electric grid is only 3-5 % non economic means, solar and wind, and can't handle more electric cars.
 
Dec 11, 2002
10,487
191
63
Solar panels belong to the Chinese and are sourced with the dirtiest energy known, lithium. We had the lowest energy costs right before Biden lowered the boom on regulations. I'm all for nuclear, natural gas, coal, solar provided there's little govt support, and building new refineries. Our govt and it's regulations are damaging our country. Let business chose what's best. The electric grid is only 3-5 % non economic means, solar and wind, and can't handle more electric cars.

When the rolling black/brown outs start hitting like we're some third world country, people will know who's to blame, and it's not the prior administration.

I think WV/MD/etc will be spared, but the west coast and much of the Midwest is going to feel them.
 
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Gunny46

Senior
Jul 2, 2018
50,183
523
83
The inflation we are going through is caused by like a dozen different things hitting simultaneously. It's a worldwide problem. Completely blaming or completely exonerating Biden is pretty idiotic. He gave out a lot of "free" money, which didn't help, but Trump did, too. Hell, Trump was flipping out at the Fed because they were thinking about raising rates during his administration. It's not like the Republicans weren't all in on easy money themselves. The stimulus packages spanned both administrations. And the economy was potentially about to collapse if they didn't do it, so I get why it was done by both presidents.

For me, we've had two below average presidents in a row. It is what it is. And it's why I appreciate Manchin. He stops every harebrained scheme either of them come up with in its tracks. We need more Machins and McCains. Fewer members of the Borg.

This bill isn't that bad. It's not very big. A fraction of the gargantuan build back better. Will be paid for (remember when bills were paid for before they passed them?) by an increase in corporate taxes. No taxes on anyone making under $400k. Will be awesome for people on Medicare. $2000 oop max. Feds will negotiate medication prices, finally. This is huge. We've been subsidizing the rest of the world's healthcare systems by paying ridiculous drug prices that other countries pay at a fraction of what we pay.

It seems like a lot of give and take took place. And a true centrist was the gatekeeper. I'd rather have Manchin making the call than Schumer, McConnell, Nancy or McCarthy.

I'm looking forward to unbiased analysis of the bill from nonpartisan sources. Which takes time. The cbo isn't magic.

That said... I'm still hoping for Andrew Yang to take over in 2024. #yanggang.

The inflation we are going through is caused by like a dozen different things hitting simultaneously. It's a worldwide problem. Completely blaming or completely exonerating Biden is pretty idiotic. He gave out a lot of "free" money, which didn't help, but Trump did, too. Hell, Trump was flipping out at the Fed because they were thinking about raising rates during his administration. It's not like the Republicans weren't all in on easy money themselves. The stimulus packages spanned both administrations. And the economy was potentially about to collapse if they didn't do it, so I get why it was done by both presidents.

For me, we've had two below average presidents in a row. It is what it is. And it's why I appreciate Manchin. He stops every harebrained scheme either of them come up with in its tracks. We need more Machins and McCains. Fewer members of the Borg.

This bill isn't that bad. It's not very big. A fraction of the gargantuan build back better. Will be paid for (remember when bills were paid for before they passed them?) by an increase in corporate taxes. No taxes on anyone making under $400k. Will be awesome for people on Medicare. $2000 oop max. Feds will negotiate medication prices, finally. This is huge. We've been subsidizing the rest of the world's healthcare systems by paying ridiculous drug prices that other countries pay at a fraction of what we pay.

It seems like a lot of give and take took place. And a true centrist was the gatekeeper. I'd rather have Manchin making the call than Schumer, McConnell, Nancy or McCarthy.

I'm looking forward to unbiased analysis of the bill from nonpartisan sources. Which takes time. The cbo isn't magic.

That said... I'm still hoping for Andrew Yang to take over in 2024. #yanggang.

This Yang Gang?

 

DvlDog4WVU

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Feb 2, 2008
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Eerdoc is fake doc. That happens alot on here.
What? He’s like a 70-80 year old man.

People on the blue lot know each other. Many of us used to tailgate together a couple of times a year for the Spring Game, Away Games, etc. There were always pop-ins at tailgates, meet ups back when NLI Day was a thing, the coaches caravan stuff, all kinds of ****. There are probably 30-40 people on the board I text on the side that I’m friends with outside of the website.
 

Gunny46

Senior
Jul 2, 2018
50,183
523
83
What? He’s like a 70-80 year old man.

People on the blue lot know each other. Many of us used to tailgate together a couple of times a year for the Spring Game, Away Games, etc. There were always pop-ins at tailgates, meet ups back when NLI Day was a thing, the coaches caravan stuff, all kinds of ****. There are probably 30-40 people on the board I text on the side that I’m friends with outside of the website.

You also said you were a Marine that worked in Intelligence for 20 years but yet I haven't seen any proof of that or you would have understood the relevance of the Andrew Yang post and the big picture of it not coming from nowhere. The Color Revolution is coming from several different angles to accomplish one goal. I could easily point it going back before I started posting if you need me to? It's in alot of old threads.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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You also said you were a Marine that worked in Intelligence for 20 years but yet I haven't seen any proof of that or you would have understood the relevance of the Andrew Yang post and the big picture of it not coming from nowhere. The Color Revolution is coming from several different angles to accomplish one goal. I could easily point it going back before I started posting if you need me to? It's in alot of old threads.
Cool. I’m familiar with Andrew Yang and what his idea for UBI is and was.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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What do you think about his ideas then?
That it’s a very nuanced thought exercise.

For instance, in general, I’m aligned with the traditional “boot strap” philosophy or the “teach a man to fish” idea. Give people the tools, not excuses or reasons. Through that lens, UBI is horrible. We got some relevant use case data during the pandemic that showed how poorly in execution UBI actually was and what the impacts of an approach like that were, I.e. we had a significant drop in workforce participation and even willingness to work.

Separately, with the coming mass implementation of AI, a lot of people are going to be out of work and there are going to be no jobs or opportunities, they just won’t exist. So, what do you do in those cases? Let people starve to death? Turn to petty crime? Start a big war to thin the herd?

No idea. Extremely nuanced and realistically, it adds credence to the current administration’s push to bring back manufacturing to the US. We have to recreate some opportunity for people to work, otherwise, have a huge population problem to deal with and an impending welfare state with a bankrupt nation to cover it. It’s really a dangerous 10-20 year outlook that if not aggressively tackled, spells an end to the empire.
 

Gunny46

Senior
Jul 2, 2018
50,183
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That it’s a very nuanced thought exercise.

For instance, in general, I’m aligned with the traditional “boot strap” philosophy or the “teach a man to fish” idea. Give people the tools, not excuses or reasons. Through that lens, UBI is horrible. We got some relevant use case data during the pandemic that showed how poorly in execution UBI actually was and what the impacts of an approach like that were, I.e. we had a significant drop in workforce participation and even willingness to work.

Separately, with the coming mass implementation of AI, a lot of people are going to be out of work and there are going to be no jobs or opportunities, they just won’t exist. So, what do you do in those cases? Let people starve to death? Turn to petty crime? Start a big war to thin the herd?

No idea. Extremely nuanced and realistically, it adds credence to the current administration’s push to bring back manufacturing to the US. We have to recreate some opportunity for people to work, otherwise, have a huge population problem to deal with and an impending welfare state with a bankrupt nation to cover it. It’s really a dangerous 10-20 year outlook that if not aggressively tackled, spells an end to the empire.

Do you support what he does or not? Because there were several accounts that though he was the ****. Unfortunately it was one person working those puppets.

Jobs will evolve with technology. That means the workforce will evolve with it. But there will be Jobs and we are a long ways from what you are describing.

He just did an interview arguing on jobs returning to the United States. He was also fighting against tarriffs. Basically he sounds like someone pushing Socialism for everyone except the elites.
 
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DvlDog4WVU

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Do you support what he does or not? Because there were several accounts that though he was the ****. Unfortunately it was one person working those puppets.

Jobs will evolve with technology. That means the workforce will evolve with it. But there will be Jobs and we are a long ways from what you are describing.

He just did an interview arguing on jobs returning to the United States. He was also fighting against tarriffs. Basically he sounds like someone pushing Socialism for everyone except the elites.
I wouldn’t vote for him or his ideas.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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Well he doesn't think China is a real threat to the United States. Maybe we should send his *** back to Taiwan for awhile and let him ponder on it.
Again, nuance and context. Are they a military threat to first strike attack us? No.

In every other sense of the word “threat”, they are.
 

Gunny46

Senior
Jul 2, 2018
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Again, nuance and context. Are they a military threat to first strike attack us? No.

In every other sense of the word “threat”, they are.

Nonsense like this is typed when you attempt to play Marine. They have been attacking us through proxies for a very long time.

No possible way you don't understand this. It's basic Intelligence that's been known since the 90's and has only gotten worse leading up until now.
 
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DvlDog4WVU

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Nonsense like this is typed when you attempt to play Marine. They have been attacking us through proxies for a very long time.

No possible way you don't understand this. It's basic Intelligence that's been known since the 90's and has only gotten worse leading up until now.
You got me. /eyeroll

This is like the 5th time you’ve questioned my service. It’s your right to do so. I’ll stick to relying on Reagan’s comments as it relates to my service and sacrifice.

They’ve been attacking in an asymmetrical fashion for 2 decades. They have not directly conducted a first strike in a conventional military sense. Stop trying to win every conversation. Try to understand more and play gotcha less.
 

Gunny46

Senior
Jul 2, 2018
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You got me. /eyeroll

This is like the 5th time you’ve questioned my service. It’s your right to do so. I’ll stick to relying on Reagan’s comments as it relates to my service and sacrifice.

They’ve been attacking in an asymmetrical fashion for 2 decades. They have not directly conducted a first strike in a conventional military sense. Stop trying to win every conversation. Try to understand more and play gotcha less.

You sound like the idiot MOD. The goofball in North Carolina who pretends to be alot of things he isn't.

Their MO is to do it in a way they can claim through MEDIA and Propaganda they weren't involved. You seem to be the only person who doesn't understand that.

A hundred thousand dead a year through Narco-Terrorism is still war. It's how you destroy a country from within and all they had to do is provide the chemicals. That's just one example and it's basic stuff.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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You sound like the idiot MOD. The goofball in North Carolina who pretends to be alot of things he isn't.

Their MO is to do it in a way they can claim through MEDIA and Propaganda they weren't involved. You seem to be the only person who doesn't understand that.

A hundred thousand dead a year through Narco-Terrorism is still war. It's how you destroy a country from within and all they had to do is provide the chemicals. That's just one example and it's basic stuff.
Now you really got me!!! I’m one of MODs many accounts…that he doesn’t have.

Hence the term “asymmetrical” and the distinction being made between direct military conventional first strike.

And if you’d take a minute and understand instead of trying to prove me wrong, you’d realize I’m in pretty violent agreement with you vis-à-vis China. I’m actually a China-hawk, and believe of all nations, they’re the one that needs brought to heel.
 

Gunny46

Senior
Jul 2, 2018
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Now you really got me!!! I’m one of MODs many accounts…that he doesn’t have.

Hence the term “asymmetrical” and the distinction being made between direct military conventional first strike.

And if you’d take a minute and understand instead of trying to prove me wrong, you’d realize I’m in pretty violent agreement with you vis-à-vis China. I’m actually a China-hawk, and believe of all nations, they’re the one that needs brought to heel.

If I pay your neighbors a hundred dollars to knock your teeth out. That's the first strike. So it's not about proving you wrong. It's pointing out we don't need to wait for ******** in uniforms to parachute in or storm the beach to understand we are already at war and have been for a long time. Anyone who doesn't understand that doesn't need to be running for office anytime soon. Trump is definitely attempting to deal with it by restraining them and cutting off their ability to continue. But it could get hotter any day. Not to mention all the MAM they are looking for the Democrats already let in.