Measles In Clemson and upstate

[baltimorened]

I'm going to apologize in advance for and say that there are numerous posts of yours in not going to be able to circle back to so I hope you'll forgive me or nag me about important ones.

My only point with this is that if someone insists on all laws being enforced, they should be irrate at what happened with Trump's prosecution and convictions. The reality is that most of the people making these claims (and I'm NOT lumping you in here) couldn't give two sh.its about trump's proven and highly likely crimes. So the "just enforce the laws that we have" thing rings extremely hollow.

I understand that justice is slow and that the Biden DOJ likely dropped the ball on some timing for these prosecutions. I think you, though, could consider how much opportunity there is for the Trump DOJ just to end the outstanding investigations (and indeed this appears to be likely). I don't fully understand how you could consider that justice, even if it's legal in some extremely narrow sense.

I'm all for prosecuting anybody who commits a crime..anybody to include trump. I'm not irate though, I only get irate when involved in something I can control. . From my understanding, and I'm not a lawyer, trump was convicted and his sentencing was "deferred" (probably not right word) because of his election to the presidency. But, that's the system..and, in fact, the entire system has not run it's course, as Trump still has appeals. So, our legal system seems to be following the "process". I personally find it hard to believe that the judge in the Trump trial would have "moved" or "bent" the system to appease trump.

I feel the same way about some of the other legal cases in the country. I don't like it when alleged murderers are released back into society to commit new crimes, or migrants killing citizens or scammers get off.

I would be a lot happier if all the laws were enforced equally and that everyone convicted received the same sentence, but that doesn't happen. Some rich get off with slaps on the risks and some minorities get off because of their poor upbringing or whatever. Some judges seem to make rulings on the basis of their feelings as opposed to the law only to be overturned on appeal...some get "off" with plea deals.

Let's face it, in our system we follow the processes, but it's not "equal" under the law.

Don't know what else to say

 

[FLaw47]

I'm all for prosecuting anybody who commits a crime..anybody to include trump. I'm not irate though, I only get irate when involved in something I can control. . From my understanding, and I'm not a lawyer, trump was convicted and his sentencing was "deferred" (probably not right word) because of his election to the presidency. But, that's the system..and, in fact, the entire system has not run it's course, as Trump still has appeals. So, our legal system seems to be following the "process". I personally find it hard to believe that the judge in the Trump trial would have "moved" or "bent" the system to appease trump.

I feel the same way about some of the other legal cases in the country. I don't like it when alleged murderers are released back into society to commit new crimes, or migrants killing citizens or scammers get off.

I would be a lot happier if all the laws were enforced equally and that everyone convicted received the same sentence, but that doesn't happen. Some rich get off with slaps on the risks and some minorities get off because of their poor upbringing or whatever. Some judges seem to make rulings on the basis of their feelings as opposed to the law only to be overturned on appeal...some get "off" with plea deals.

Let's face it, in our system we follow the processes, but it's not "equal" under the law.

Don't know what else to say

OK, I'm not gong to contest any of that but I will argue that selective enforcement has always been part of our system. From cops choosing to issue a warning instead of a ticket to SCOTUS just deciding not to hear a case, discretion is hard wired in.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

OK, I'm not gong to contest any of that but I will argue that selective enforcement has always been part of our system. From cops choosing to issue a warning instead of a ticket to SCOTUS just deciding not to hear a case, discretion is hard wired in.

I would also argue that a lot of at least my issue is that a lot of the “processes” are seemingly being trampled. I am seeing carcinogenic tear gas being used near children, disabled people being ripped out of cars, entering homes without a judicial warrants (in one case, it was a US Citizen, and the person they were after had been in jail for 2 years). I don’t want people to recklessly drive, but I also don’t want cops to shoot the tires of people going 20 over in an effort to slow them down enough to arrest.

 

[baltimorened]

OK, I'm not gong to contest any of that but I will argue that selective enforcement has always been part of our system. From cops choosing to issue a warning instead of a ticket to SCOTUS just deciding not to hear a case, discretion is hard wired in.

no question and that was my point ...good system, but imperfect system.

I don't know if you've noticed, but folks on the left are upset/concerned over trump crimes, folks on right now so much.

folks on the right are concerned about Biden(or pick any other crimes of a democrat) crimes, folks on the left, not so much.

political system, just like legal, good, but imperfecr

 

[MTTiger19]

My god you are such a friggin idiot. No way you believe half of what you post. You're just a dumb troll

Yea I’m so crazy. So out there. Why don’t you criticize your butt buddy that thinks people should just pick and choose what laws are to be enforced based on whether they agree with it or not. Stfu.

 

[MTTiger19]

I would also argue that a lot of at least my issue is that a lot of the “processes” are seemingly being trampled. I am seeing carcinogenic tear gas being used near children, disabled people being ripped out of cars, entering homes without a judicial warrants (in one case, it was a US Citizen, and the person they were after had been in jail for 2 years). I don’t want people to recklessly drive, but I also don’t want cops to shoot the tires of people going 20 over in an effort to slow them down enough to arrest.

I agree. I thought allowing 20+ million people into the country and having over half of them on taxpayer subsidies was a trampling of the immigration process. How many people have been raped, assaulted or murdered by an illegal. Like how many Laken Riley’s are there and talk about trampling the process, she was raped, beaten and left to die. I think trying to count them in the census is a trampling of that process as well. I don’t want people that don’t belong here voting and on welfare. We agree in principle. Great post.

 

[baltimorened]

I would also argue that a lot of at least my issue is that a lot of the “processes” are seemingly being trampled. I am seeing carcinogenic tear gas being used near children, disabled people being ripped out of cars, entering homes without a judicial warrants (in one case, it was a US Citizen, and the person they were after had been in jail for 2 years). I don’t want people to recklessly drive, but I also don’t want cops to shoot the tires of people going 20 over in an effort to slow them down enough to arrest.

all good points.....I don't think most people like the processes being used by ICE agents....in some cases..not all instances of ICE interactions are not violent

So the question becomes what can we do as a society to achieve the objective - removing those in the country illegally - without the need to use tear gas, wrestle people to the ground etc? I still say, that we could tone down ICE, but as long as we have non cooperation by state and local authorities, the local protesters/agitators will set the environment.

But, as I read the posts, it seems to me that most of us want to enforce immigration law, want ICE to follow the laws, but are not satisfied with the process.. so a rational person might conclude that leaders should find a way to build a better process. I don't think you can get there though as long as one of the goals of local leaders is to protect their residents who are in the country illegally. Their goal is to deter removal of undocumented migrants which is opposite the federal/popular (debatable, I'm sure)goal. It's a unique situation where state and federal governments are in such direct odds.

Just had a back and forth with Flaw over our legal process and Trump's crimes.

 

[MTTiger19]

I'm all for prosecuting anybody who commits a crime..anybody to include trump. I'm not irate though, I only get irate when involved in something I can control. . From my understanding, and I'm not a lawyer, trump was convicted and his sentencing was "deferred" (probably not right word) because of his election to the presidency. But, that's the system..and, in fact, the entire system has not run it's course, as Trump still has appeals. So, our legal system seems to be following the "process". I personally find it hard to believe that the judge in the Trump trial would have "moved" or "bent" the system to appease trump.

I feel the same way about some of the other legal cases in the country. I don't like it when alleged murderers are released back into society to commit new crimes, or migrants killing citizens or scammers get off.

I would be a lot happier if all the laws were enforced equally and that everyone convicted received the same sentence, but that doesn't happen. Some rich get off with slaps on the risks and some minorities get off because of their poor upbringing or whatever. Some judges seem to make rulings on the basis of their feelings as opposed to the law only to be overturned on appeal...some get "off" with plea deals.

Let's face it, in our system we follow the processes, but it's not "equal" under the law.

Don't know what else to say

Have you seen this? The problem is the left has pivoted to things like this. They invented lawfare, that wasn’t even a thing until recently. This guy was secretly wiretapping and tracking sitting republicans in congress and had worked to make it where no one could see, a violation of Speech or debate clause. Watch this lying pos, puts in his court report that McCarthy is a flight risk then says he’s absolutely not. This is the problem, these pencil necked, self loathing, lying, losers. Brandon Gill destroys this dick, watch him squirm lol. Would love to hear Hucks commentary on this trampling of the constitution he’s so keen on protecting, I bet he has no problem here.

 

[MTTiger19]

Dupe

 

[MTTiger19]

Trump was convicted of a crime and had several other active prosecutions kibashed.

I've been very consistent with my statement that everyone is selective of which laws they want enforced. I think that people should report child molestation and are doing a bad thing if they sit on it. I also wouldn't call the police if I observed my neighbor smoking a joint or jaywalking.

The irony of this is there was an election and the American people demanded two things - trump as president (AFTER being “charged”) and illegals deported. It seems like you can’t get your head around that and that’s ok. These illegals are the reason yall lost the election. You and your suicide cult don’t get to supersede the American people.

 

[MTTiger19]

all good points.....I don't think most people like the processes being used by ICE agents....in some cases..not all instances of ICE interactions are not violent

So the question becomes what can we do as a society to achieve the objective - removing those in the country illegally - without the need to use tear gas, wrestle people to the ground etc? I still say, that we could tone down ICE, but as long as we have non cooperation by state and local authorities, the local protesters/agitators will set the environment.

But, as I read the posts, it seems to me that most of us want to enforce immigration law, want ICE to follow the laws, but are not satisfied with the process.. so a rational person might conclude that leaders should find a way to build a better process. I don't think you can get there though as long as one of the goals of local leaders is to protect their residents who are in the country illegally. Their goal is to deter removal of undocumented migrants which is opposite the federal/popular (debatable, I'm sure)goal. It's a unique situation where state and federal governments are in such direct odds.

Just had a back and forth with Flaw over our legal process and Trump's crimes.

But, as I read the posts, it seems to me that most of us want to enforce immigration law, want ICE to follow the laws, but are not satisfied with the process.
I have no idea what board you’re reading but this is absolutely not the case. They believe if a person gets to American soil illegally they immediately get all the benefits and rights and privileges of an American citizen and they do not want to do anything to deter that. The last president literally had the NG remove a temporary border erected by Texas for that very reason. He literally told everyone that we were open for business and to come here. That’s absolutely not the same, that’s not enforcement. Even huckster, who claims he’s moderate, would tell you if an illegal gets to American soil they now have all constitutional rights and protections as an American citizen. I do not agree with that. That’s not what a sovereign nation does.

 

[FLaw47]

no question and that was my point ...good system, but imperfect system.

I don't know if you've noticed, but folks on the left are upset/concerned over trump crimes, folks on right now so much.

folks on the right are concerned about Biden(or pick any other crimes of a democrat) crimes, folks on the left, not so much.

political system, just like legal, good, but imperfecr

Agree with all of that. Just stating that if we're moving forward with that acknowledgement then I don't think "we should just enforce the laws we have" is a very good argument when in reality for most people who say this, the sentiment is "I like this law and think it should be enforced. These other laws are ones I don't care about."

I'd rather have a conversation about if this is a good law or not than pretend that this is some high minded issue of justice.

 

[MTTiger19]

Agree with all of that. Just stating that if we're moving forward with that acknowledgement then I don't think "we should just enforce the laws we have" is a very good argument when in reality for most people who say this, the sentiment is "I like this law and think it should be enforced. These other laws are ones I don't care about."

I'd rather have a conversation about if this is a good law or not than pretend that this is some high minded issue of justice.

Omg. You do understand that there’s a process to changing laws right. You don’t just get to to arbitrarily decide what you like. And calling people Nazis that don’t agree with your specific ideology is crazy af.

 

[FLaw47]

Omg. You do understand that there’s a process to changing laws right. You don’t just get to to arbitrarily decide what you like. And calling people Nazis that don’t agree with your specific ideology is crazy af.

If you'd like to point out where I've called you a Nazi, be my guest.

I just think you're full of shÎt when you say "all I want is for the laws to be enforced". You very clearly do not care about the laws when it comes to Donald Trump OR what ICE is currently doing.

 

[JohnHughsPartner]

their position can be summed up easily, if Trump is for it, they're against it...and vice versa...and there's no discussion that will change their minds. Even Flaw, who is part of this discussion has posted that he can't see himself ever voting for a republican - in spite of the fact that he has no idea who will be candidates in the future. How's that for an open mind.?

They'll constantly yell illegal or unconstitutional on here, yet their past democrat elected officials did the same things and nothing was said, or were cheered.

Oh and if you dare to accept their position you either a Nazi or fascist.

Nailed it

 

[MTTiger19]

If you'd like to point out where I've called you a Nazi, be my guest.

I just think you're full of shÎt when you say "all I want is for the laws to be enforced". You very clearly do not care about the laws when it comes to Donald Trump OR what ICE is currently doing.

Let’s be cordial. Tell me what laws you think should be changed.

 

[FLaw47]

Let’s be cordial. Tell me what laws you think should be changed.

I feel like I've been very consistent in saying that I don't think local law enforcement or hospitals should report any undocumented immigrants they cross paths with to ICE. I think it makes our country less safe. If you have some compelling data that says otherwise I'm all ears.

There are lots of laws I'd change and those are laws I'd never go out of my way to help the State enforce. I would not have called the police in Texas in 2000 if I was aware my neighbors were having gay sex.

 

[MTTiger19]

I feel like I've been very consistent in saying that I don't think local law enforcement or hospitals should report any undocumented immigrants they cross paths with to ICE. I think it makes our country less safe. If you have some compelling data that says otherwise I'm all ears.

There are lots of laws I'd change and those are laws I'd never go out of my way to help the State enforce. I would not have called the police in Texas in 2000 if I was aware my neighbors were having gay sex.

In your opinion. When is the appropriate time to inform LE of illegal immigrants? What data do you have that supports your claim that it makes the country “less safe”? How are you correlating private citizens having sex in the privacy of their homes to immigrants not following the proper protocol for entering the country. That’s a hell of a reach. Do you think people should drive without driver’s licenses? Trying to understand.

 

[FLaw47]

In your opinion. When is the appropriate time to inform LE of illegal immigrants? What data do you have that supports your claim that it makes the country “less safe”? How are you correlating private citizens having sex in the privacy of their homes to immigrants not following the proper protocol for entering the country. That’s a hell of a reach. Do you think people should drive without driver’s licenses? Trying to understand.

I'm going to really stress here that I keep bringing up these other examples as laws that most of us have no interest in enforcing while we have this argument presented that "we should enforce all of our laws". I feel like you've basically acknowledged that some laws are dumb and should be ignored so the conversation needs to revolve around "is the law dumb or not?"

I think that undocumented immigrants should be reported to federal authorities by state authorities when they have committed a non-immigration crime of consequence. Otherwise the federal authorities are allowed to do their own legwork and find the people to deport.

Here's are an article on sanctuary cities.

To be completely candid with you, I'm going to find data that supports sanctuary policy compelling because the arguments on their own make sense to me. I'm not immovable from this position but I need to have compelling data to the contrary to move me, or a good argument for why the premise is actually wrong. Fair or not, saying "I think sanctuary cities make me less safe" isn't going to move the needle.

 

[fatpiggy]

I feel like I've been very consistent in saying that I don't think local law enforcement or hospitals should report any undocumented immigrants they cross paths with to ICE. I think it makes our country less safe. If you have some compelling data that says otherwise I'm all ears.

There are lots of laws I'd change and those are laws I'd never go out of my way to help the State enforce. I would not have called the police in Texas in 2000 if I was aware my neighbors were having gay sex.

I remember not too long ago democrats wanted to call law enforcement if you weren't wearing your mask correctly. But law enforcement cooperating with ICE to deport criminals is a bridge too far? GTFOH

We remember. Y'all wanted law enforcement to cooperate with all of your maniacal demands. But pitch a fit when reasonable requests are made.

 

[MTTiger19]

I remember not too long ago democrats wanted to call law enforcement if you weren't wearing your mask correctly. But law enforcement cooperating with ICE to deport criminals is a bridge too far? GTFOH

We remember. Y'all wanted law enforcement to cooperate with all of your maniacal demands. But pitch a fit when reasonable requests are made.

This is what I’m trying to get him to realize. They’re heavy handed when it suits them. They literally wanted American citizens that hadn’t been vaxxed to lose their jobs and be put in camps.

 

[FLaw47]

I remember not too long ago democrats wanted to call law enforcement if you weren't wearing your mask correctly. But law enforcement cooperating with ICE to deport criminals is a bridge too far? GTFOH

We remember. Y'all wanted law enforcement to cooperate with all of your maniacal demands. But pitch a fit when reasonable requests are made.

Two things and you're free to disagree with me:

1. I don't think that thing you're talking about happened in any meaningful way. If you want the standard to be "I found a liberal who advocated for this so I can paint that entire side of the aisle that way", I'd encourage you to think of the sorts of people I'd be able to lump you in with.
2. I don't think police needed to be involved in most cases for masking but I cared a lot more about COVID than I do illegal immigration. That killed more people than illegal immigration has in this country.

 

[MTTiger19]

I'm going to really stress here that I keep bringing up these other examples as laws that most of us have no interest in enforcing while we have this argument presented that "we should enforce all of our laws". I feel like you've basically acknowledged that some laws are dumb and should be ignored so the conversation needs to revolve around "is the law dumb or not?"

I think that undocumented immigrants should be reported to federal authorities by state authorities when they have committed a non-immigration crime of consequence. Otherwise the federal authorities are allowed to do their own legwork and find the people to deport.

Here's are an article on sanctuary cities.

To be completely candid with you, I'm going to find data that supports sanctuary policy compelling because the arguments on their own make sense to me. I'm not immovable from this position but I need to have compelling data to the contrary to move me, or a good argument for why the premise is actually wrong. Fair or not, saying "I think sanctuary cities make me less safe" isn't going to move the needle.

So no real data, just what you think and that’s fair. We need to know who’s in the country period. No sovereign nation allows illegal immigrabts to pillage tax payer subsidies period. That’s normal and nothing about that is facist or racist. It’s not my responsibility to pay for the healthcare, food and wellness of illegals.

 

[MTTiger19]

Two things and you're free to disagree with me:

1. I don't think that thing you're talking about happened in any meaningful way. If you want the standard to be "I found a liberal who advocated for this so I can paint that entire side of the aisle that way", I'd encourage you to think of the sorts of people I'd be able to lump you in with.
2. I don't think police needed to be involved in most cases for masking but I cared a lot more about COVID than I do illegal immigration. That killed more people than illegal immigration has in this country.

Didn’t a large portion of the military get “retired” for refusing the vax? That fantasy?
Service members who refused without an approved exemption faced disciplinary actions, up to and including involuntary administrative separation (discharge).


• By early 2023, when the mandate was rescinded, the Department of Defense had discharged over 8,000 service members (reports cite figures around 8,000–8,700) solely or primarily for refusing the vaccine

 

[FLaw47]

Didn’t a large portion of the military get “retired” for refusing the vax? That fantasy?
Service members who refused without an approved exemption faced disciplinary actions, up to and including involuntary administrative separation (discharge).


• By early 2023, when the mandate was rescinded, the Department of Defense had discharged over 8,000 service members (reports cite figures around 8,000–8,700) solely or primarily for refusing the vaccine

That's an entirely different thing than what fat piggy said. I'm fully supportive of having required service members to get vaccinated. They have to get vaccinated for tons of things already, almost all of which were less pertinent than COVID.

 

[JohnHughsPartner]

Two things and you're free to disagree with me:

1. I don't think that thing you're talking about happened in any meaningful way. If you want the standard to be "I found a liberal who advocated for this so I can paint that entire side of the aisle that way", I'd encourage you to think of the sorts of people I'd be able to lump you in with.
2. I don't think police needed to be involved in most cases for masking but I cared a lot more about COVID than I do illegal immigration. That killed more people than illegal immigration has in this country.

“I cared a lot more about COVID that I do illegal immigration”

• Border Patrol Arrests: Since FY2021, Border Patrol has arrested over 43,000 individuals with criminal histories crossing the border, with some reports noting daily apprehensions of those with serious offenses.
• ICE Convictions (FY2023): In Fiscal Year 2023, ICE reported 73,822 individuals with criminal histories, leading to over 290,000 charges/convictions, including homicide, kidnapping, and sexual assault.
• House Homeland Security (2024): A report listed over 100,000 assaults, 14,000 homicides, and 20,000 sexual assaults attributed to undocumented immigrants in a given period, though specific dates for these figures aren't always clear.