Military autonomy under Trump

Boomboom521

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im not sold on this being a good thing completely. I'm looking for those that know --- those on here in which I am grateful for their service--- to help me understand both the historical context of this strategy as well as how the strategy applies to our military actions in the ME today.

How is it different? Dangerous? Beneficial? Was this used before?
 

DvlDog4WVU

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im not sold on this being a good thing completely. I'm looking for those that know --- those on here in which I am grateful for their service--- to help me understand both the historical context of this strategy as well as how the strategy applies to our military actions in the ME today.

How is it different? Dangerous? Beneficial? Was this used before?
I'm not sure I'm in agreement with the military having full autonomy myself. I'm also not sure that is what is happening, but I'm not sure. Have to put it into context. Will the military staff be allowed to develop strategy and implement with a more relaxed political environment? Likely. You have to have some political involvement but maybe not to the extent Obama/Clinton had. At one point, the ROEs were so restrictive under that administration that you had to be in imminent danger and even then it was questionable.

Historically?
  1. WWI
  2. WWII
  3. Gulf 1 (until Hwy of Death)
  4. Korea
  5. A bunch of small conflicts
Where it's been operated from the White House?
  1. Vietnam w/ the McNamara doctrine
  2. Macedonia
  3. Somalia
  4. Bin Laden Raid
  5. OIF/OEF
Successes and failures on both sides. It really just depends on a variety of things. Where we run into trouble is when more political consideration is given than military strategy in my opinion, and in some cases, you just aren't going to see decisive victory. Afghanistan is a great example. I'll explain.

Stan McCrystal is largely considered a damn prodigy by a lot of folks. His plan in Afg was to implement COIN (Counter Insurgency). COIN is near impossible to implement, we've tried and failed numerous times as have numerous other nations. COIN requires a Peace Corp type of role for a combat force. It's almost counter intuitive to everything the military is built to do. He was given authority to implement it. He failed, because his line commanders failed to embrace and implement it, because, the line troops didn't embrace it. They were toying with giving medals for "courageous restraint" (not shooting in the face of danger) You basically have to become an occupying force with no timeline or expectation for withdraw. It would take a generation or more to implement.
 

WVUCOOPER

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Dec 10, 2002
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Stan McCrystal is largely considered a damn prodigy by a lot of folks. His plan in Afg was to implement COIN (Counter Insurgency). COIN is near impossible to implement, we've tried and failed numerous times as have numerous other nations. COIN requires a Peace Corp type of role for a combat force. It's almost counter intuitive to everything the military is built to do. He was given authority to implement it. He failed, because his line commanders failed to embrace and implement it, because, the line troops didn't embrace it. They were toying with giving medals for "courageous restraint" (not shooting in the face of danger) You basically have to become an occupying force with no timeline or expectation for withdraw. It would take a generation or more to implement.
This was basically what that new Brad Pitt Netflix movie was about, though the movie suggested he didn't really have much of a leash on implementation.
 

Boomboom521

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Mar 14, 2014
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I'm not sure I'm in agreement with the military having full autonomy myself. I'm also not sure that is what is happening, but I'm not sure. Have to put it into context. Will the military staff be allowed to develop strategy and implement with a more relaxed political environment? Likely. You have to have some political involvement but maybe not to the extent Obama/Clinton had. At one point, the ROEs were so restrictive under that administration that you had to be in imminent danger and even then it was questionable.

Historically?
  1. WWI
  2. WWII
  3. Gulf 1 (until Hwy of Death)
  4. Korea
  5. A bunch of small conflicts
Where it's been operated from the White House?
  1. Vietnam w/ the McNamara doctrine
  2. Macedonia
  3. Somalia
  4. Bin Laden Raid
  5. OIF/OEF
Successes and failures on both sides. It really just depends on a variety of things. Where we run into trouble is when more political consideration is given than military strategy in my opinion, and in some cases, you just aren't going to see decisive victory. Afghanistan is a great example. I'll explain.

Stan McCrystal is largely considered a damn prodigy by a lot of folks. His plan in Afg was to implement COIN (Counter Insurgency). COIN is near impossible to implement, we've tried and failed numerous times as have numerous other nations. COIN requires a Peace Corp type of role for a combat force. It's almost counter intuitive to everything the military is built to do. He was given authority to implement it. He failed, because his line commanders failed to embrace and implement it, because, the line troops didn't embrace it. They were toying with giving medals for "courageous restraint" (not shooting in the face of danger) You basically have to become an occupying force with no timeline or expectation for withdraw. It would take a generation or more to implement.
Something as literal as troop strength in Afghanistan has been given to Mattis. I was always under the impression that tactical command was always deferred by the WH to the SofD and the Generals and on down the line......but I'm under the impression that more substantial logistical decisions are now being given to commanders in the field. The only thing that makes me not fear control being displaced into the hands of Mattis is the praise his receives from those that served. Although the "mad dog" nickname gives me some concern.
 

WVU82_rivals

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May 29, 2001
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owebama gave $$$ to the Kenyan Air Force on his last day...

while our Air Force had so many planes grounded from lack of parts...

protecting his home country...


US lawmaker calls for probe into possible $418M arms sale to Kenya ...
www.foxnews.com/.../us-lawmaker-calls-for-probe-into-possible-418m-arms-sale-to-ken...
Mar 3, 2017 - ... President Obama's last day in office -- a deal the lawmakerclaims reeks of cronyism. ... US lawmaker calls for probe into possible $418M arms sale to Kenya ... A State Department spokesman did not respond to a request for ...
 

WVUCOOPER

Redshirt
Dec 10, 2002
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Any good?
BTW - it's not really an adrenaline pumping war movie with big special effects and yada, yada, yada. It's more the behind the scenes politics of his time in Afghanistan. They do not shine a kind light on Karzai which totally caught me off guard.
 

DvlDog4WVU

All-Conference
Feb 2, 2008
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BTW - it's not really an adrenaline pumping war movie with big special effects and yada, yada, yada. It's more the behind the scenes politics of his time in Afghanistan. They do not shine a kind light on Karzai which totally caught me off guard.
Uggggg, can we not just see some **** get blown up? I don't want to watch a "think piece"​
 

bamaEER

Freshman
May 29, 2001
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Google where that came from.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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Chaos doesn't increase my confidence
You should do a little studying up on him. You'd really like him. He's revered not just because he was tenacious, he was a true leader of men. If you've seen "We Were Soldiers", he's a lot like Cool. Hal Moore. Very much a true academic of military and world history. He preached about being smart as well as aggressive. Around the men, he spoke and treated them like men. Think coach Kirlav but really damn smart.
 

Boomboom521

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You should do a little studying up on him. You'd really like him. He's revered not just because he was tenacious, he was a true leader of men. If you've seen "We Were Soldiers", he's a lot like Cool. Hal Moore. Very much a true academic of military and world history. He preached about being smart as well as aggressive. Around the men, he spoke and treated them like men. Think coach Kirlav but really damn smart.
I will learn some chaos theory
 

Popeer

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Sep 8, 2003
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COIN requires a Peace Corp type of role for a combat force. It's almost counter intuitive to everything the military is built to do.
Almost counterintuitive? How about completely counterintuitive? After Desert Storm the Chief of Staff of the Army, Gordon Sullivan, gathered all the generals of the major commands in a room at Fort Leavenworth for a gigantic After Action Review session. The war was over, and it seemed as if peacekeeping and "nation-building" missions were all that lay ahead. Sullivan told them in so many words not to "fall in love with digging wells" because that's not the Army's job. It's the military's job to win the war - if possible - and to provide a stable environment so that the people who have the well-digging mission can do their work. Unfortunately, which 2300 years of history says this might not be in Afghanistan - everybody from Alexander the Great to the British to the Russians have come to grief there, and after 16 years it's not looking good for us either.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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Almost counterintuitive? How about completely counterintuitive? After Desert Storm the Chief of Staff of the Army, Gordon Sullivan, gathered all the generals of the major commands in a room at Fort Leavenworth for a gigantic After Action Review session. The war was over, and it seemed as if peacekeeping and "nation-building" missions were all that lay ahead. Sullivan told them in so many words not to "fall in love with digging wells" because that's not the Army's job. It's the military's job to win the war - if possible - and to provide a stable environment so that the people who have the well-digging mission can do their work. Unfortunately, which 2300 years of history says this might not be in Afghanistan - everybody from Alexander the Great to the British to the Russians have come to grief there, and after 16 years it's not looking good for us either.
Hard to turn a Marine into a peacekeeper, I know that much. It would almost make sense to massively staff up the Peace Corps and arm them and allow them to rebuild. Our job is fvcking **** up.
 

Boomboom521

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Hard to turn a Marine into a peacekeeper, I know that much. It would almost make sense to massively staff up the Peace Corps and arm them and allow them to rebuild. Our job is fvcking **** up.
I think the Peace Corps should be more a focus for many reasons
 

DvlDog4WVU

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I think the Peace Corps should be more a focus for many reasons
If I were Trump for a day, I'd require some type of military/civil service (Peace Corps, Civic Works, etc.) for a 2-4 year period, no deferments. After which, all elective requirements for college are gone. Let people going to school be able to focus on their degree requirements.
 

Boomboom521

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If I were Trump for a day, I'd require some type of military/civil service (Peace Corps, Civic Works, etc.) for a 2-4 year period, no deferments. After which, all elective requirements for college are gone. Let people going to school be able to focus on their degree requirements.
If high school provided a more thorough and well rounded education, the peace corps was tripled (at least --/ btw this is a Trump positive for me, as he aims to increase the corps funding), and the defense budget was able to be cut as a result....,,I'd be all for this
 

DvlDog4WVU

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If high school provided a more thorough and well rounded education, the peace corps was tripled (at least --/ btw this is a Trump positive for me, as he aims to increase the corps funding), and the defense budget was able to be cut as a result....,,I'd be all for this
Clearly you wouldn't be able to cut the defense budget.
 

Boomboom521

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Not with what I said. Everyone upon turning 18 would be either in the Peace Corps, Civil Works, or Military. That would likely triple personnel numbers in the military.
Salaries and incentives should drop a little for career soldiers though. I mean if there is a massive influx of required recruits. Is the PC budget calculated within the defense budget?
 

DvlDog4WVU

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Salaries and incentives should drop a little for career soldiers though. I mean if there is a massive influx of required recruits. Is the PC budget calculated within the defense budget?
Not sure. Regardless, PC however it's funded would be significantly increased. You could do that by reducing the grants set asides for college as you wouldn't need as much money. Understanding though it's likely not a 1 for 1.
 

Boomboom521

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Not sure. Regardless, PC however it's funded would be significantly increased. You could do that by reducing the grants set asides for college as you wouldn't need as much money. Understanding though it's likely not a 1 for 1.
True. I'd want more people going into PC and dishing out hugs, rather than the military dishing out pain......but we know that's because I'm a ***** liberal
 

DvlDog4WVU

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True. I'd want more people going into PC and dishing out hugs, rather than the military dishing out pain......but we know that's because I'm a ***** liberal
I'd support a massive influx of the PC. I think a good many countries could benefit from it. My ex-girlfriend's father spoke to me about his time in the PC. Amazing stories. I personally prefer the blowing **** up aspect, I don't really like people, and I don't really care about the plight of the underdeveloped world, but I respect the work of the PC.

I don't think you're a liberal *****. We just have different things that motivate us. You care about the world and making it better. I care about the US and ensuring it's dominance. Sometimes those ideals are in start contrast, sometimes they intersect. Both are needed.

It's kind of funny, I pushed up a white paper to our VPs about a month ago for a dynamic shift in our thinking and recruiting strategies. My whole professional career has been about blowing **** up and keeping the world safe for democracy. Within the last year, I've taken on a new role where I'm responsible for Programs that work directly with these same countries side by side as teaming partners that I've been a part of wrecking **** and killing people in.
 

Boomboom521

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I'd support a massive influx of the PC. I think a good many countries could benefit from it. My ex-girlfriend's father spoke to me about his time in the PC. Amazing stories. I personally prefer the blowing **** up aspect, I don't really like people, and I don't really care about the plight of the underdeveloped world, but I respect the work of the PC.

I don't think you're a liberal *****. We just have different things that motivate us. You care about the world and making it better. I care about the US and ensuring it's dominance. Sometimes those ideals are in start contrast, sometimes they intersect. Both are needed.

It's kind of funny, I pushed up a white paper to our VPs about a month ago for a dynamic shift in our thinking and recruiting strategies. My whole professional career has been about blowing **** up and keeping the world safe for democracy. Within the last year, I've taken on a new role where I'm responsible for Programs that work directly with these same countries side by side as teaming partners that I've been a part of wrecking **** and killing people in.
I appreciate the recognizing of my value in the balance....I surely recognize yours.

I believe Kennedy's vision for the PC could have helped prevent many issues we are dealing with today. Helping build infrastructure in Afghanistan post the Soviet conflict for example. One thing Obama said that resonated with me was that he wanted to cut the military even more upon coming into office, but realized how vital they are to international aid projects. Finding that balance in what the Stars and Stripes means to other nations and what the people under the flag provide is crucial to reversing the trend of international relations, imo.
 

Popeer

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Sep 8, 2003
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Everyone upon turning 18 would be either in the Peace Corps, Civil Works, or Military. That would likely triple personnel numbers in the military.
Not necessarily. First, not everyone is qualified for service in uniform. Second, I doubt that a third of those of service age would choose to try that path. I've long been in favor of a universal service law, but my version of it wouldn't "draft" everyone immediately at age 18 but rather follow Korea's model of a two-year requirement at some point between age 18 and 25. And not all young men go into the military there either - Koreans also get credit if they join the national police or civil service.
 

DvlDog4WVU

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Not necessarily. First, not everyone is qualified for service in uniform. Second, I doubt that a third of those of service age would choose to try that path. I've long been in favor of a universal service law, but my version of it wouldn't "draft" everyone immediately at age 18 but rather follow Korea's model of a two-year requirement at some point between age 18 and 25. And not all young men go into the military there either - Koreans also get credit if they join the national police or civil service.
That would work, I hadn't considered that. Sounds good, let's do it.
 

Mntneer

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Oct 7, 2001
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Not necessarily. First, not everyone is qualified for service in uniform.

My Step-Daughter's boyfriend just got back from training in Texas for security forces (he's in the Air Guard). It was almost shameful how out of control that base was, and how many problems they were having with drugs, alcohol, etc. And these were men and women training to provide security services to the Air Force. :flushed: