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Military Strikes on Iran Imminent

ANEW

ANEW

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nytigerfan said:
Iran was complying. They let international inspectors in to confirm it. Trump is trying to fix a problem that he caused.
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But there was wiggle room while complying. I know you don't think that, so that is where we will disaggree.

I also know that we had 4 years after Obama for an admin to act in our best interests ..and in that time period... Iran got more powerful and made great strides towards their nuclear ambitions. You/we can't pretend that away. But if we do then i guess we need to say that it was Eisenhower, a Democrat, that helped Iran with their nuclear program first and then discount everything after that.
 
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ANEW

ANEW

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fatpiggy said:
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Yeah. Israel. Israel is out for Israel. No doubt. We have people in federal prison who are there because the were spying for Israel. And I understand the point/ intent of that clip. BUT one thing to remember is that things are never static. There have been offensive actions, some overt, some covert, some clandestine that could have legitimately impacted Iran's nuclear timeline. Also underpinning things is Irael's position as an ally to the US vis a vis to the rest of the middle east. I am of the opinion that while not a perfectly subservient "vassal", Israel is by far the best ally that we have in a very important region of the world. They share many of the values that are the underpinnings of our society here in the US.
 
Jfcarter3

Jfcarter3

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ANEW said:
Ok. And?

I'm assuming that if you you are talking about "lies" then it appears to me that you think that Iran still has it's nuclear program that is pursuing nuclear weapons? Right? So what do we do about it? Are they a threat?
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Yikes. I am simply pointing out that TACO tells you that everything was destroyed, repeatedly, and then has the largest military build up in the region in decades because of the potential harm of the apparently not destroyed things. So yes, he apparently either lied then or is lying now (hint: somehow all of the above. If he’s breathing, he’s lying). But you’re clearly okay with that so Whateves.
 
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DVearthquake

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ANEW said:
Yeah. Israel. Israel is out for Israel. No doubt. We have people in federal prison who are there because the were spying for Israel. And I understand the point/ intent of that clip. BUT one thing to remember is that things are never static. There have been offensive actions, some overt, some covert, some clandestine that could have legitimately impacted Iran's nuclear timeline. Also underpinning things is Irael's position as an ally to the US vis a vis to the rest of the middle east. I am of the opinion that while not a perfectly subservient "vassal", Israel is by far the best ally that we have in a very important region of the world. They share many of the values that are the underpinnings of our society here in the US.
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You could argue that they are a good ally against problems that wouldn’t exist without them as an ally.
 
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ANEW

ANEW

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DVearthquake said:
Get a nuke deal that Trump can pitch without looking weak and GTFO.
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I think that's what Trump is angling for. He's not a hawk. Hell, Bolton lambasts trump for not attacking iran when they shot down our Global Hawk drown during Trump 1.0. I don't think Iran is going to go for it. But we'll see.
 
ANEW

ANEW

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DVearthquake said:
You could argue that they are a good ally against problems that wouldn’t exist without them as an ally.
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And you could argue that if Eisenhower wouldn't have supported Iran's nuclear program we wouldn't be where we are. And that would be stupid. It's more complicated than that x100.

This whole Iran thing is categorized in modern military terminology as a "Wicked Problem" use AI to define it in military terms and then keep asking how this current Iran situation fits into that definition.

edit: for clarity and to not confuse things..
 
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nytigerfan

nytigerfan

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ANEW said:
But there was wiggle room while complying. I know you don't think that, so that is where we will disaggree.

I also know that we had 4 years after Obama for an admin to act in our best interests ..and in that time period... Iran got more powerful and made great strides towards their nuclear ambitions. You/we can't pretend that away. But if we do then i guess we need to say that it was Eisenhower, a Democrat, that helped Iran with their nuclear program first and then discount everything after that.
Click to expand...

We are in full agreement.

I also know that we had 4 years after Obama for an admin to act in our best interests ..and in that time period... Iran got more powerful and made great strides towards their nuclear ambitions. You/we can't pretend that away.
 
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ANEW

ANEW

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nytigerfan said:
We are in full agreement.

I also know that we had 4 years after Obama for an admin to act in our best interests ..and in that time period... Iran got more powerful and made great strides towards their nuclear ambitions. You/we can't pretend that away.
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agreement to whatever degree. Tip of the hat. Happy to continue the discussion with you.
 
fatpiggy

fatpiggy

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ANEW said:
Yeah. Israel. Israel is out for Israel. No doubt. We have people in federal prison who are there because the were spying for Israel. And I understand the point/ intent of that clip. BUT one thing to remember is that things are never static. There have been offensive actions, some overt, some covert, some clandestine that could have legitimately impacted Iran's nuclear timeline. Also underpinning things is Irael's position as an ally to the US vis a vis to the rest of the middle east. I am of the opinion that while not a perfectly subservient "vassal", Israel is by far the best ally that we have in a very important region of the world. They share many of the values that are the underpinnings of our society here in the US.
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My view of Israel has changed after the Epstein files.

Epstein was a spy. Epstein infiltrated Obamas cabinet via Ruemler. Their influence is too strong for my taste.

If we let Israeli spies rape children on our land with impunity, then they have too much power in our country. We draw the line there.

I
 
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DVearthquake

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fatpiggy said:
My view of Israel has changed after the Epstein files.

Epstein was a spy. Epstein infiltrated Obamas cabinet via Ruemler. Their influence is too strong for my taste.

If we let Israeli spies rape children on our land with impunity, then they have too much power in our country. We draw the line there.

I
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I felt that way before and feel worse now. The UK didn't steal secrets about the B2 bomb from us; why does this imperfect ally get to play such a direct role in our decision making? That priviledge doesn't seem to extend to other countries we have been stronger allies with for longer.

How many times has Bibi flown over to the US in the past year? How many times has he addressed Congress? It's wildly disproportionate to what little influence they ought to have in anything we do. The tail doesn't get to wag the dog.

I'm not comfortable with my religion being lumped together with theirs in the form of "Judeo-Christian values" either.
 
firegiver

firegiver

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ANEW said:
what should we do now about the iran situation? Serious question.
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We should probably, and this is just me talking, expel the evil cabal of satanic child rapists and cannibals that are calling the shots and forcing us to go to war with Iran. Just a suggestion. Then we can worry about Iran.
 
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DVearthquake

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firegiver said:
We should probably, and this is just me talking, expel the evil cabal of satanic child rapists and cannibals that are calling the shots and forcing us to go to war with Iran. Just a suggestion. Then we can worry about Iran.
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I'll settle for publishing every single document with redactations made solely to protect victims and nobody else. And yeah, getting the budget situation fixed before we start another war. How is that not common sense?
 
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firegiver

firegiver

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DVearthquake said:
I'll settle for publishing every single document with redactations made solely to protect victims and nobody else. And yeah, getting the budget situation fixed before we start another war. How is that not common sense?
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That sounds sane. You know what sounds absolutely insane? Going to war with a nation because of their POTENTIAL to get a nuke. While at the same time capitulating to a country that has refused to join any Nuclear Treaty that we have put forward into the world.

An ex US intelligence officer claims that he was informed the reason we bombed Iran in 2025 was because Israel told us if we didn't do it, they would use their nuclear weapons. Trump was forced to.
 
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DVearthquake

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firegiver said:
That sounds sane. You know what sounds absolutely insane? Going to war with a nation because of their POTENTIAL to get a nuke. While at the same time capitulating to a country that has refused to join any Nuclear Treaty that we have put forward into the world.

An ex US intelligence officer claims that he was informed the reason we bombed Iran in 2025 was because Israel told us if we didn't do it, they would use their nuclear weapons. Trump was forced to.
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We've gone from preemptive strikes against concrete threats (already a slippery slope) to preemptive strikes against potential threats. Any war in the history of mankind can be justified with that kind of thinking. And if preemptive strikes are ok, why aren't preemptive preemptive strikes? It never ends.

I think it was Rubio who said they want to develop missiles to reach the US. Great, so we have explicit confirmation from the Secretary of State that they pose no threat to the US at this time. The administration also maintains that their nuclear program remains significantly damaged. What's materially changed from past June until now that merits the US going to war? Zilch.

I have zero doubt that in the event of a war, we're going to absolutely level them. Great, but why should somebody here care if there was no real threat to begin with? If everything goes well, the regime falls, and we don't know where it will go from there. Nobody really does.

Maybe Israel and the Sunni Arab states are initially happy, but how do things change between them if the common threat of Iran is gone? Israel is going to go from being a very useful ally to their chief regional threat. Why do the Saudis need normalization if Iran is gone? Does anybody think the polite jihadists in Syria are going to be happy being friends with Israel now? As I write this, Smotrich said, "From the river to the sea, only a Jewish state." I'm sure they'll be eating it up over there.

This could spill over into Iraq. If the Kurds go too far, Turkey won't be happy. At bare minimum, lot of people are going to die. Is anyone thinking about these things?

Trump's policy choices, whether it's immigration, tariffs, foreign intervention, etc, are less about the merits and more about whatever makes him look powerful. That's the driving logic beneath it all.
 
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baltimorened

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firegiver said:
That sounds sane. You know what sounds absolutely insane? Going to war with a nation because of their POTENTIAL to get a nuke. While at the same time capitulating to a country that has refused to join any Nuclear Treaty that we have put forward into the world.

An ex US intelligence officer claims that he was informed the reason we bombed Iran in 2025 was because Israel told us if we didn't do it, they would use their nuclear weapons. Trump was forced to.
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well that settles it, an exUS intelligence officer said he was informed of the reason we bombed IRAN.
 
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Jfcarter3

Jfcarter3

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Looks like the Israelis doing TACOs dirty work. Two for one with that one (you know, since he chickens out. Spelling it out for the low brow boot lickers).
 
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Allornothing

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baltimorened said:
well that settles it, an exUS intelligence officer said he was informed of the reason we bombed IRAN.
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Not only that, usually the people talking the most about it, know the least of anyone. MOST people with security clearances don't leak information they are given. Killary Clinton, Adam Schitt, and the farting rep from Cali (Eric Swallowswell) are some noted exceptions.
 
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