Miss. State baseball facts and comparisions

[OMlawdog]

then MSU's own fan base.

When Polk was pushed out the door and his recommendation for the next coach taken with a grain of salt, I remember reading on here that MSU baseball was a top 10 job in the country due to fan support, money, and facilities. Begrudgingly I had to agree that it is. They were only 14 months removed from a trip to Omaha, and at the end of the day MSU baseball had earned a reputation as a premier SEC baseball school. As Cohen said himself "Anything less than Omaha is unacceptable" and 'Every musician wants to play Carnegie Hall, and Dudy Noble [Field] is the Carnegie Hall of college baseball.'"

It was clear Cohen had high expectations for MSU, and I remember reading on here that the expectations for MSU baseball had changed as well. At the end of the day, these two numbers are the ones that I don't see how anyone gets around:

.327 winning percentage in the SEC
.511 winning percentage overall

All while playing a fairly soft non-conference schedule.

What I fail to grasp is how a school that is willing to pay a top 10 salary, have a top 20 stadium, and provide top 10 facilities when it comes to baseball is willing to accept the above numbers.

When MSU fired/retired Polk I was concerned that MSU would become a consistent top 10-15 team in the country and a bad season would be a 2 seed in the tourney. Now in year four with the numbers I quoted above some like Coach and Goat are simply offended that you would consider being unhappy with the results. Right now Im pissed with Bianco and think that he should be coaching for his job this year, not next year. Sure Im happy with the talent we have and the talent coming in, but at the end of the day its the results that matter and he is not producing this season and if we aren't pushing for a regional host by the end of the year, I would think he would have a significant chance of being fired. Id be ok with that, because he simply would not have met the expectations he has created. All this while he is 7-8 in the SEC and a top 25 team.

At the end of the day I never thought I would see the day that the expectations (not the results) of Ole Miss baseball fans would exceed that of MSU baseball fans.

 

[kimmer]

And not get too enamored by catching lightning in a bottle for 5 games at the end of last season.

Not having a winning SEC record in year 4 is not acceptable. Making the SECT one out of every 3-4 years is not acceptable. Now this season is not over with so if we can put it together in the second half, come out with a winning SEC record and make the tourney I will back off. Right now we aint cutting it and if we continue down this path I would be willing to give JC one more year to show something and if not a change must be made.

For an old guy like me who experienced the good old days it is incredibly sad to see the tattered remnants of our once proud program dwarfed by so many others in the conference.

 

[OMlawdog]

Has anyone actually looked at Polk's results his last 4 years at MSU?

He went to three regionals including a CWS trip and won a conference tourney championship.

His SEC record wasn't good, but it was still at .422 almost a full .100 higher than Cohen's current winning percentage.

Hell Polk went to the tourney five straight times, only missing out his last year at MSU. His train wreck of a season had an SEC winning percentage of .300. A mere .027 lower than Cohen's career SEC winning percentage.

So to review, Polk's last year = train wreck; Cohen's first four years at MSU = ???

 

[patdog]

but for the results we've had so far, we may as well have kept him.

 

[Johnson85]

<span style="font-weight: bold;">1. </span>Uh, you think Sherrill left Croom with many players when he was fired in December 2003 with only TWO - both 2 star- commitments?<div><span style="font-weight: bold;">2.</span> You said yourself when Croom was fired, emphatically, that 2-6 in the SEC was NOT acceptable for a football coach and should get any coach fired at MSU. Yet Mullen is 2-6 in the SEC in two out of his three years, and you claim he is the greatest coach in America?</div><div><span style="font-weight: bold;">3.</span> Firing good coaches sends many a program into misery they never knew they could reach. See David Cutcliffe at Ole Miss for example number uno. Everyone at Ole Miss thought that he was holding them back and they could do better and make that next step if they just got another coach. And then they learned that no one wanted the job, and they still don't today, so they had to hire Hugh Freeze of all people. How low can you go.</div><div><span style="font-weight: bold;">4.</span> Now MSU fires a good coach in Rick Stansbury and - shocker, shocker - the college basketball coaching world was not beating down the door to get to Starkville, to put it mildly. In fact, we land a coach that was on no one's radar, despite whatever smoke some people want us to inhale. Maybe he will do better than Stans did in his career - but it is huge maybe and most would say it is very unlikely. Very unlikely. But if it happens, I'll gladly admit my prediction was wrong.</div><div></div>

1. Crooms was the one that decided to keep coaching in the NFL playoffs rather than go recruit. He was certainly in the hole and was going to struggle regardless, but he chose to keep digging.

2. The SEC West Crooms was competing in and the SEC West Mullen competes in are a good bit different.

3. David Cutcliffe was a good coach but you still have to recruit. He left UM in no-man's land. Wait until he and the program inevitably bottom out or fire him, leaving the impression of unreasonable expectations. In hindsight, they probably should have given him another year, but it likely would have put them in the position that our basketball team is in now as far as lack of talent, although maybe it would have made the job more desirable.

4. Stansbury was a similar situation to Cutcliffe, but for the opposite reason you think. The program was clearly on a downward trajectory, but it's hard to fire a coach with Stansbury's results. We made the opposite decision of Ole Miss, and let the program bottom out. In hindsight, we should have made the change last year, gotten rid of Renardo, lost all the recruits (that are gone now anyway), and given the new coach a shot with Moultrie and Bost. The reality is when you're a program like MSU basketball and especially UM football, you just about can't win when you end up in that situation. We may end up in a similar situation with Cohen, if he starts consistently squeaking into the NCAA and finishing around 9th or 10th in the SEC.

 

[Coach34]

Because your inconsistency is a joke but you don't even recognize the irony. You won't let any inconsistency or facts get in the way of you defending your position. MSU football was far worse than MSU baseball (and MSU basketball) the two years before Croom arrived. In year 4, Croom went .500 in the SEC West, and beat several powerhouses in the division. So, how is Cohen doing in year four (when you were crying for Croom to be fired!). Mullen has been living off Croom's recruits since he was fired - there can be no dispute over that.<div> But for Cohen, you say that this is really his year two in your eyes? Because Polk didn't leave him anything? Uh, you think Sherrill left Croom with many players when he was fired in December 2003 with only TWO - both 2 star- commitments?- What about the 6-7 future NFL players that Jackie left Crooms? They sure came in handy. </div><div> You said yourself when Croom was fired, emphatically, that 2-6 in the SEC was NOT acceptable for a football coach and should get any coach fired at MSU. Yet Mullen is 2-6 in the SEC in two out of his three years, and you claim he is the greatest coach in America?- We are better on offense and defense since Mullen took over for Crooms. We are about to go bowling for the 3rd season in a row. 2-6 for Crooms was normal. Now under Mullen it's becoming a down year. Are you too dumb to see the difference?</div><div> Firing good coaches sends many a program into misery they never knew they could reach. See David Cutcliffe at Ole Miss for example number uno. Everyone at Ole Miss thought that he was holding them back and they could do better and make that next step if they just got another coach. And then they learned that no one wanted the job, and they still don't today, so they had to hire Hugh Freeze of all people. How low can you go.</div><div> Now MSU fires a good coach in Rick Stansbury- he had done a good job, but he was bottoming the program out- it's in the shape it's in right now because of Rick Stansbury. We are considered the nation's most dysfunctional program because of Rick Stansbury. That couldnt be allowed to continue. and - shocker, shocker - the college basketball coaching world was not beating down the door to get to Starkville, to put it mildly. In fact, we land a coach that was on no one's radar, despite whatever smoke some people want us to inhale. Maybe he will do better than Stans did in his career - but it is huge maybe and most would say it is very unlikely- I dont think it's unlikely for us to make 2 NCAA Tourneys in the last 7 years like Stansbury did. Even as bleak as it looks now, do you think we will have trouble making only 2 NCAA's in the next 7 years?. Very unlikely. But if it happens, I'll gladly admit my prediction was wrong.</div><div> At least read your own posts and recognize the blatant inconsistency- what inconsistency? Stansbury took 4 years to make an NCAA Tourney- Cohen did it in year 3. Crooms made 1 bowl in his 5 seasons- Mullen has gone to 2 in 3 seasons and is about to make it 3 out of 4...your problem is that you are looking at 14 years of Stansbury vs 3 1/2 years of Cohen. Stansbury took till his 4th season to make the NCAA's. Stansbury only made 2 NCAA's in his last 7 years- do you realize Cohen has already had a better season in his 3 than Stansbury had in his entire 14??? Stop with the BS. between what you write about Cohen and what you wrote about Stans and Croom. </div>

 

[Goat Still Grindin]

MSU is a foundation built by Polk and continued by Cohen. Only difference is, the foundation was made of sand at MSU, and on concrete at UK.<div>
</div><div>There's my parable of the day for you, dipshit.</div>

 

[Goat Still Grindin]

throw out records and such if you want, fact is, Polk quit recruiting, and it showed up in 2008 and beyond. We had ZERO pitching. I was there, I saw it. You and these other ignorant fools probably didn't watch one single game. When people like Luke Adkins are trotting out there in middle relief chunking it 82 mph and ****, you suck. Go back and watch Polk's boys back in '08 and '09 and then come back and we'll take about the awesome job Cohen really has done.<div>
</div><div>Anybody can see your agenda you transparent douchebag. You love watching our assbag fans self destruct on this board. You also know Cohen will win again, and soon.</div>

 

[CadaverDawg]

And I agree. Why would an Ole Miss fan care so much about MSU's baseball situation to make so many posts. Ought to make all you guys that agree with him feel pretty good about your stance. You know, since the Rebs are all worried about our baseball success n ****.

 

[Ol Blue.sixpack]

MSU is a foundation built by Polk and continued by Cohen. Only difference is, the foundation was made of sand at MSU, and on concrete at UK.<div>
</div><div>There's my parable of the day for you, dipshit.</div>

Looks like the new SPS word of the day is dipshit. <div>
</div><div>In the 3 years after Cohen, UK was 84-81 (33-57). Looks like Henderson finally righted the ship in year 4.</div>

 

[patdog]

And I see you've still never found my post saying that I think Cohen should be fired after this season. Although I have to admit, if he doesn't get to double digit SEC wins this year you might find it in 5 weeks. I didn't think there was any way in hell we'd win less than 12 this year, but the next 3 weekends will be crucial for him.

 

[War Machine Dawg]

Cohen is trying to rebuild while dealing with aging facilities.
Virtually every team in the conference has undergone a renovation,
expansion, or built a new facility within the last 10-12 years. And to
complicate the problem, our athletic department appears to be in no
hurry to improve our facilities. Football got a facelift and now an
expansion. Hoops got the IPF. Hell, even track got the 17ing track
resurfaced. Meanwhile, DNF is falling apart. I wish I could find the
article/comment where Byrne was talking about how we can't replace the
chairs in the stadium when one breaks because they're no longer made.
And we all know about the ****** construction done on the skyboxes that
allows them to leak. I was at an alumni association meeting a couple of
years ago and our speaker was Mingione. He was talking about how bad the
drainage was when they first got there and how we had to install an
entirely new drainage system. The Palmeiro Center is nice, but it's
really the only competitive baseball facility we have. The locker rooms
were apparently in really bad shape when Cohen got here, too. I remember
reading an article where he referenced having it repainted and such to
try to get it in decent condition. I know we got an infield practice
area, but that was only because of some deal we made with Easton right
after Cohen arrived.

The bottom line is this: Cohen is trying to recruit against teams who
have more recent wins, a better recent MLB Draft record, and better
facilities. And he's actually doing a pretty damn good job of it. But if
you want the best players, you've got to have the facilities to attract
them. Our AD should be begging Raffy, Clark, Brantley, Showalter, Paps,
Maholm, etc. for donations specifically earmarked to go toward baseball
facility improvement. We also need to hit up big donors who care about
baseball for facility money, the same way we do for football and
basketball. And we as alumni/BC members should all be hounding the
athletic department about making baseball facilities a short term
priority. I understand football pays the bills and is first in line, but
baseball shouldn't keep getting put on the back burner, either.

Just my .02 cents.

 

[OMlawdog]

Its very hard to determine who is a better coach. I like to use wins and losses. You apparently like to use the eyeball test.

Riddle me this then, who is the best offensive player Cohen has had at MSU in his four years. If you say anyone other than Connor Powers I simply don't trust your eyeballs.

I said I had higher expectations for MSU baseball than most MSU baseball fans, evidently you included. I don't think in year 4, Cohen should be struggling to make the SEC tourney. I just don't. The fact that you think its ok that he is, says more about your opinion of MSU baseball as opposed to mine.

At the end of the day Cohen is paid to win games, and despite the claims that Polk left a glorified pine belt travel team when Cohen arrived, at the end of the day its Cohen's job to improve on the previous coach's results. So far his .327 SEC winning percentage isn't getting it done. Now he will probably make it to Hoover, and probably make a regional, but there is no way that any MSU baseball fan should be happy with those results in year 4.

Also, as for your comment that Cohen will win again, and soon. Im assuming you are talking about when he was at Kentucky because so far he has not had a winning SEC season at MSU, and barring a fairly good second half of the season (11-4) he will once again not have a winning season in the SEC.

 

[jcdawgman18]

Cohen is trying to rebuild while dealing with aging facilities.
Virtually every team in the conference has undergone a renovation,
expansion, or built a new facility within the last 10-12 years. And to
complicate the problem, our athletic department appears to be in no
hurry to improve our facilities. Football got a facelift and now an
expansion. Hoops got the IPF. Hell, even track got the 17ing track
resurfaced. Meanwhile, DNF is falling apart. I wish I could find the
article/comment where Byrne was talking about how we can't replace the
chairs in the stadium when one breaks because they're no longer made.
And we all know about the ****** construction done on the skyboxes that
allows them to leak. I was at an alumni association meeting a couple of
years ago and our speaker was Mingione. He was talking about how bad the
drainage was when they first got there and how we had to install an
entirely new drainage system. The Palmeiro Center is nice, but it's
really the only competitive baseball facility we have. The locker rooms
were apparently in really bad shape when Cohen got here, too. I remember
reading an article where he referenced having it repainted and such to
try to get it in decent condition. I know we got an infield practice
area, but that was only because of some deal we made with Easton right
after Cohen arrived.

The bottom line is this: Cohen is trying to recruit against teams who
have more recent wins, a better recent MLB Draft record, and better
facilities. And he's actually doing a pretty damn good job of it. But if
you want the best players, you've got to have the facilities to attract
them. Our AD should be begging Raffy, Clark, Brantley, Showalter, Paps,
Maholm, etc. for donations specifically earmarked to go toward baseball
facility improvement. We also need to hit up big donors who care about
baseball for facility money, the same way we do for football and
basketball. And we as alumni/BC members should all be hounding the
athletic department about making baseball facilities a short term
priority. I understand football pays the bills and is first in line, but
baseball shouldn't keep getting put on the back burner, either.

Just my .02 cents.

The locker room has been redone, the dugouts were redone, the field was redone, the practice infield has been built, and the Palmeiro Center is still as good as any baseball team around. The baseball facilities that have fallen behind for us are the facilities for the fans; the DNF bathrooms, concession stands, etc. <div>
</div><div>Also, the Byrne comment on the seats is now out of date because they changed every seat in the grandstand this offseason.</div>

 

[FireworksForJeffy]

asinine. cohen's recruiting at state hasn't been good enough.

 

[patdog]

Polk II took us to 5 straight NCAA regionals before his last season. This isn't ancient history, this is all in the last decade. Nobody's saying that MSU baseball should be as good as it was from 1979 - 1990. But there's no reason it can't be as consistently good as it was from 2003 - 2007 either. And it's just not.

 

[Coach34]

and he said "with a bomb to blow it up"

 

[Coach34]

Polk II took us to 5 straight NCAA regionals before his last season. This isn't ancient history, this is all in the last decade. Nobody's saying that MSU baseball should be as good as it was from 1979 - 1990. But there's no reason it can't be as consistently good as it was from 2003 - 2007 either. And it's just not.

finishing 9th in the SEC and getting in IS the definition of sneaking in a Regional

 

[OMlawdog]

[No message]

 

[Coach34]

by the way- why you keep trying to bang on me? I'm getting tired of donkey-punching your little comments...you may want to try a lower level opponent to boost your confidence

 

[Cramer-The-Goat]

In the real world ,if you are not doing your job the boss calls you in and tells you that you have x number of weeks to get it fix or you are gone . Gee maybe we should do that here ,you got 15 SEC games you need to win 10 of them or you are gone . Simple beats blaming everything else,Winning is what matters right.

 

[OMlawdog]

And Cohen snuck in once.

Look, I think it is really funny the lengths you go to try and rebuild your fragile ego due to the fact that you went from chanting Shaka Smart! and talking babbling on and on about MSU can hire pretty much anyone they want because it was a new day, to spinning it into blaming former Stan's supporters for making the entire team transfer, and then bashing people for criticizing a coach that had never won a college game.

Now it appears you like Cohen, therefore he will get your support, facts be damned. An example would be MSU's 6th place finish last year in the SEC. Now if that was Stans or a coach you didn't like you would have said, "tied for last spot in the tourney", but since its Cohen who you like, you go with 6th. Im just not a big fan of hypocrites, and I can expect a big ole can of hypocrisy with Coach Ray.

Im pretty sure if he shoots a fan after a loss your post will read something like this, "Who could blame him after having to clean up Stan's mess, I would want to shoot a fan too, I think our players need to take on Coach Ray's take no prisoners approach." Im only half kidding too.

Why can't you just say, "In all honesty, I expected more from Cohen and so far any objective fan would have to say that to be battling for a spot in Hoover in year 4 is disappointing" Instead since you were a big cohen supporter you are backing him regardless, results be damned.

 

[patdog]

nm

 

[CadaverDawg]

Look Jack, there may be a lot of dumb17s on this board that u can convince how much you care about our baseball team. You guys loved Sly Croom...why? Because he sucked and u knew he would never have us good enough to worry about. You hated the Kang....why? Because he out recruited your team, and he won games at a higher level than any coach in our history, and most of all because he scared the **** out of you guys in Oxford. You hate Mullen...why? Because he's kickin y'alls *** in every phase of the game and once again he scares the **** out of you guys. So now, why would you be trying to help convince us that Cohen isn't the man for the job?? The same reason me, C34, bigdawg22, and several others want to keep him, that's why. Because you're hoping we get rid of him before he turns it around, because our potential with him as a coach and recruiter scares you. Some of our dumbasses want to be message board heroes that helped rally the fan base and get a guy fired, but those of us with intelligence know what Cohen potentially brings to the table.
So you and whoever can say that's not your motive, but you won't convince me. I trust an Ole Miss fan looking out for MSU, about as much as I trust Jerry Sandusky around an elementary school field trip

 

[tenureplan]

Some of our dumbasses want to be message board heroes that helped rally the fan base and get a guy fired, but those of us with intelligence know what Cohen potentially brings to the table.

 

[Coach34]

And Cohen snuck in once.

Look, I think it is really funny the lengths you go to try and rebuild your fragile ego due to the fact that you went from chanting Shaka Smart! and talking babbling on and on about MSU can hire pretty much anyone they want because it was a new day, to spinning it into blaming former Stan's supporters for making the entire team transfer, and then bashing people for criticizing a coach that had never won a college game.

Now it appears you like Cohen, therefore he will get your support, facts be damned. An example would be MSU's 6th place finish last year in the SEC. Now if that was Stans or a coach you didn't like you would have said, "tied for last spot in the tourney", but since its Cohen who you like, you go with 6th. Im just not a big fan of hypocrites, and I can expect a big ole can of hypocrisy with Coach Ray.

Im pretty sure if he shoots a fan after a loss your post will read something like this, "Who could blame him after having to clean up Stan's mess, I would want to shoot a fan too, I think our players need to take on Coach Ray's take no prisoners approach." Im only half kidding too.

Why can't you just say, "In all honesty, I expected more from Cohen and so far any objective fan would have to say that to be battling for a spot in Hoover in year 4 is disappointing" Instead since you were a big cohen supporter you are backing him regardless, results be damned.

to reply to the rest:

1. There is nothing fragile about my ego.
2. I said from the time the search began we werent getting Smart- but it didnt hurt to ask. Once he made the Final Four- we had no chance.
3. Since I called out the "Stan's supporters"- you'll notice we havent had people getting on here and other sites starting doom and gloom threads about our basketball program and transfers. Now, it could be just a coincidence- but I know better.
4. I didnt bash people for getting on Coach Ray
5. As far as Cohen, I've provided quite a few facts of my own. And it's been an eye-opener to quite a few people.

"In all honesty, I expected more from Cohen and so far any objective fan would have to say that to be battling for a spot in Hoover in year 4 is disappointing"

The "year 4" thing is a bunch of ********. I've already showed what a turd Polk left him for that 1st year- including a recruiting class that couldnt even make the top 50
Secondly, someone bumped a thread from when Cohen was hired and it talked about expectations- someone even uses it as their sig now- I said- "Omaha by year 3 and then appearances every other year."

We were 2 innings short of my expectations for his 3rd season. It happens at this high of a level. We are rebuilding this year, and should be back next season making our way into a Super Regional battling for Omaha. So, as you can see, and it is documented- he is barely short of the expectations I had for him when he took the job.

 

[bill brasky.sixpack]

He has been a head coach for 13 years and has made 3 regionals.<div id="myEventWatcherDiv" style="display:none;"></div><div>
</div><div>He has been a head coach in the SEC for 9 years and has made 3 regionals (THAT IS TERRIBLE)</div><div>
</div><div>He has never been to the CWS</div><div>
</div><div>He has made one SR in 9 years as an SEC head coach. </div><div>
</div><div>He has had 2 of Mississippi States 3 losing seasons in the last 37 years. </div><div>
</div><div>In Polks second tenure he missed regionals only twice, but I guess according to all of you we can discount the first one since it was his first year back and that isn't on him. </div><div>
</div><div>Those are some facts. I am for giving him another year and he will most likely be at State a long time, but if he misses a regional this year, then it should be do or die next year.</div>

 

[Coach34]

Kentucky has one SEC title in it's history- the one he led them to. And we have dragged *** in the SEC on talent the last 5 years- our top 10 rounds numbers rival a SWAC program's

 

[BillBraskyDOG]

Peaches you're a liar. You said when the search started that Shaka Smart was warm to the idea of coaching msu.

 

[biguglyjoe]

********

 

[Coach34]

.

 

[BillBraskyDOG]

I love this thread. This is the thread you admit you make stuff up and you lied about shaka smart "warming" to the idea of coaching msu.

 

[Coach34]

I love this thread. This is the thread you admit you make stuff up and you lied about shaka smart "warming" to the idea of coaching msu.