Mississippi will have a much harder time making a new hire than they realize....

[Coach34]

should they choose to go that route:<div>
</div><div>Coaches look at history- Mullen was even quoted as saying one of the reasons he accepted the State job was because Jackie won here.</div><div>
</div><div>their history?</div><div>
</div><div>Cutcliffe? Cotton Bowl- then fired shortly after</div><div>Ogermoron? Couldnt win at all</div><div>Nutts? Cotton Bowls now looking at the hammer dropping</div><div>
</div><div>Not to mention- your biggest rival is on the upswing with Mullen.</div><div>
</div><div>I'd be shocked if a Malzahn or someone like that took the job. They will end up with a Hugh Freeze or maybe Kent Austin after being turned down a few times</div>

 

[Coach34]

should they choose to go that route:<div>
</div><div>Coaches look at history- Mullen was even quoted as saying one of the reasons he accepted the State job was because Jackie won here.</div><div>
</div><div>their history?</div><div>
</div><div>Cutcliffe? Cotton Bowl- then fired shortly after</div><div>Ogermoron? Couldnt win at all</div><div>Nutts? Cotton Bowls now looking at the hammer dropping</div><div>
</div><div>Not to mention- your biggest rival is on the upswing with Mullen.</div><div>
</div><div>I'd be shocked if a Malzahn or someone like that took the job. They will end up with a Hugh Freeze or maybe Kent Austin after being turned down a few times</div>

 

[Coach34]

should they choose to go that route:<div>
</div><div>Coaches look at history- Mullen was even quoted as saying one of the reasons he accepted the State job was because Jackie won here.</div><div>
</div><div>their history?</div><div>
</div><div>Cutcliffe? Cotton Bowl- then fired shortly after</div><div>Ogermoron? Couldnt win at all</div><div>Nutts? Cotton Bowls now looking at the hammer dropping</div><div>
</div><div>Not to mention- your biggest rival is on the upswing with Mullen.</div><div>
</div><div>I'd be shocked if a Malzahn or someone like that took the job. They will end up with a Hugh Freeze or maybe Kent Austin after being turned down a few times</div>

 

[MemphisMaroon]

And if they are the best opportunity after Nutt is fired at season's end, I bet he takes it. Problem for OM is that Georgia will also be looking for a head coach.

 

[coachdaddy]

Mario Christobal- FIU - damn good football coach

 

[RebelBruiser]

If coaches look at history so much, then they'd easily consider Ole Miss over MSU.

Brewer, Tuberville, and Cutcliffe all won more games than they lost at Ole Miss. Nutt's record is still 23-18, though he's going to come close to .500, if he isn't fired midseason. If Nutt finishes with a record above .500, then the only coaches in the last 28 years at Ole Miss that will have finished with losing records will be Joe Lee Dunn, who served one year as an interim and went 4-7, and of course the failed Orgeron experiment. That's it. Every other coach since Brewer was hired finished with a record above .500.

If you go back to Vaught, you add in Kinard as having a winning record, and it's currently sitting where 6 of our last 10 head coaches have won more games than they lost, and even Ken Cooper was only 2 games below .500 at 21-23. In that same time frame, you have Darrell Royal, who only lasted 2 years, and currently Dan Mullen who is 15-13 in his third season as your only two coaches to compile a winning overall record. You can throw in Sherrill who was exactly .500.

Jackie did win a decent amount, but he's the only coach you've had who has won since integration, and even he ended up with a .500 overall record.

You're just using wishful thinking right now. If you really want to use wishful thinking to say we'll end up with a crap coach, just use the fact that Boone will be the one likely making the hire. Don't say our history will dictate it. If that were the case, MSU would never have a chance to hire anyone.

 

[Coach34]

you fired Cutcliffe- thinking people would line up for that ****** job- and got turned down time after time- having to settle for a stupidass position coach. As a matter of fact- it may be the only Defensive Line to HC move in BCS conference history. And I'm the moron?<div>
</div><div>You fire Orgeron- and hire Nutts- who had just been fired by R-Kansas. Had Nutts not been available- your coaching hire would have been much, much harder.</div><div>
</div><div>But by all means, keep thinking your job has prestige because of what Vaught did in the 1950's</div>

 

[futaba.79]

it seems to me he's saying that Miss has a quick trigger with reasonably successful coaches. And also has administrators dumb enough to hire an Orgeron.

That's the history I read in his post.

 

[RebelBruiser]

We fired Cutcliffe because our AD went in with the plan that he was going to force the coach to make staff changes. He refused. They spent a few weeks discussing it, and eventually Cutcliffe forced Boone's hand.

Again it was another Boone bungle, but he wasn't fired because we thought we could line up the next Petrino. So get that right first.

I was simply pointing out how ludicrous it was to suggest that MSU's history would be attractive to a coach and ours wouldn't. Our history is ****. So is yours. That was the point. If a coach could be attracted by the fact that you could win at MSU, then he could be attracted by the same at Ole Miss, but to a greater extent since our history has been slightly less ******.

I get that our job doesn't have prestige. That's why I want us to go for a coach that's going to be looking for something better down the line. You didn't get Dan Mullen because he wanted to retire at MSU. You got him because he wanted to use you to spring board to something better in the long run. Time will tell if it works out for him. That's what we have to find, a coach looking to move up, and if we do, we have to be ready to replace him when he hopefully gets the better job he's looking for because he's been successful enough to earn it.

There are probably 15-20 elite jobs in the country. We aren't one of them. Where we've failed in the past is that we try to get a "name" coach, which usually ends up being a retread that's looking for a place to retire. Our powers that be need to get over that and simply hire someone who has big aspirations for his individual career. If he gets comfortable and wants to stay a while, good. If he wants to move on, then we just have to find another one.

 

[VirgilCain]

ETA - Once Bruiser saw the word, "history," in Coach's post, He lost the ability to correctly comprehend the rest of the post. (cue "Glory Days" by the Boss)

 

[DowntownDawg]

....$3+ million talks. They got embarrassed after Cutcliffe because of the way they handled that. Cutcliffe did not deserve to be fired after having one losing season the year after having one of the best teams in history. Their arrogance cost them there.

At the time of Orgeron's firing, it appeared that they were very lucky to land Nutt who was considered a solid but unspectacular coach. In hindsight, that looks like a bad hire, but at the time, it was considered to be a great hire by Boone, even though Nutt just fell into his lap.

The worst thing that could happen for us would be for them to cut Nutt loose right now, sack up with an interim, and start a long term search. There doesn't appear to be too many high profile job openings that will come up this year. Georgia may be one - and I think Kirby Smart is their man. They'll go hard after Malzahn (or some other top offensive assistant - follow our path), and after an up and down year without a defense at Auburn, he would be hard pressed to turn down 3 - 3.5 million. As we saw with Mullen, their recruiting wouldn't necessarily be devastated - Malzahn would bring a lot of excitement. It remains to be seen whether or not he can recruit - but if trends continue, that may not matter that much.

The best case scenario would be for Nutt to get the vote of confidence today and flounder through the season. The problem that they are going to have is that nobody really wants Boone to make the next hire, but he has started this huge capital campaign and how can you fire an AD in the middle of the year and bring in a new guy in time to make a hire that, after Saturday, can't wait another year. I think Boone probably was an average AD, but is now motivated by fear and is starting to make big moves. It's too late for him, though. I will say that this situation is almost as bad as MSU football circa 2002-2003, without the NCAA investigation (so far). Boone has become a polarizing figure and has been allowed to hang on too long. No Doc Foglesong has come to the rescue.

I think Nutt hangs on for the rest of the year, some assistant coaches may get jettisoned at some point if it gets any worse, Nutt take over playcalling again, etc, and then we have a good old fashioned coaching search in December with Malzahn as target #1.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

...since I've been living: Steve Sloan & Houston Nutt, and Nutt is the only retread.

Other than that, it's been assistants: Kinard, Cooper, Tuberville, Cutcliffe, and Orgeron.

The only exception to that has been the coach that returned to the alma mater/former coaching position: Billy Brewer (Vaught doesn't really count since he was an interim the second go-around).

If there is a change, I'm thinking it'll most likely be Austin or Freeze who'll be in charge.

 

[o_OxfordAndrew]

Just saying. I don't think it was necessarily a terrible hire knowing what we knew of him at the time. It's always risky hiring someone without HC experience. Mullen has worked out so far, Orgeron didn't. No idea how a coaching search would go for Ole Miss right now.

 

[Foronce]

does yours?

 

[00Dawg]

You didn't get Dan Mullen because he wanted to retire at MSU. You got him because he wanted to use you to spring board to something better in the long run.

If that was the case, why doesn't he have Al Golden's (or even Brady Hoke's) job right now? Are you going to argue that he decided he was going to stick around for a while and wait for a really, reall,reallypremier job?

 

[futaba.79]

were what? Seems to me they were up and comers with aspirations. One of them left and one got comfortable and wanted to stay. Miss got rid of the comfortable one, the one that built a competitive program. He got replaced by a clown. So, in coaching circles, the story goes like this: do a decent job in Oxford and your *** is gone at the first sign of trouble.

 

[AssEndDawg]

I know you are a limp dick homer but you usually don't come talking out your *** quite this much. I guess Coach has you riled up. You fired Cutcliffe because you guys wanted a better coach. The rest of it is ******** concocted by Boone to cover his ***.

 

[VirgilCain]

I bet you have personally made jokes about Chris Wilson being "Co-Defensive Coordinator" with Manny Diaz.

Orgeron was hired because OM fans were going batshit crazy about Cut's inability to recruit... so who'd they hire? the top recruiter in the nation.

It was a terrible knee-jerk hire. But in hindsight, OM got exactly what they hired....a great recruiter (see the 2 Cotton Bowls for Nutt) but the coaching ability of someone who had never been promoted above a DL-coach (in 20+ years of coaching, per the infallible Wikipedia).

 

[freddawg]

this is the difference in the two situations that actually matters. I can almost guarantee you that we wouldn't have Dan Mullen right now if Larry T was conducting the hiring process. Dan liked Byrne and could tell that he had a plan to get things back on track. He had already proven that he was going to move the department in a new direction. TSUN has none of that going for it at this point. For that reason alone, I think Nutt will stay and the AD problem will be addressed first. Or I should say, if they truly want to make a real change, this is the path they should take.

 

[Coach34]

3 million-ku

 

[DowntownDawg]

...Vandy is not Ole Miss. Malzahn eventually turned them down after getting a big raise, but there was no automatic "no." The only reason Malzahn would turn them down is if he views himself as a Muschamp type that is destined to be the head coach at some big time program. And maybe he is. Again, the problem I see is that there aren't going to be that many big time openings this year, barring a major change in somebody's season.

I'm not saying that Malzahn is a foregone conclusion. He's not. But your assessment that they won't be able to hire anybody is not correct this time, I believe. They will go out and try to get the next Dan Mullen - successful coordinator at a big time school (probably offense) - and he will likely leave his job for $3 million and a head coaching job in the SEC at a place not named Vandy or Kentucky. At that point, it's a crapshoot as to whether or not he wins or not.

 

[Center Z]

One of the few times I'm glad you're on our side. You know how to get the **** stirred.

 

[RebelBruiser]

That's not true at all. If that were the case, then it wouldn't have taken so long to fire Cutcliffe. You don't give a coach weeks of meetings to discuss his future if you're planning on firing him because you want a bigger name coach. You fire him and get on with the process.

That was the biggest bungle of all with the Cutcliffe deal, the fact that Boone thought he could force Cutcliffe to make changes. You go in knowing if you're going to fire a coach or not. If you're going to do it, you do it the day after the last game, if you haven't already, and if you aren't going to do it but you want to see change, you tell him you want change, let him decide how to change it, give him one more year, and then you can him after the next year when he fails again.

You don't do what we did if you're planning on firing a coach. That's why I know we weren't planning on firing Cutcliffe in 2004. Anyone with half a brain can see that. Boone screwed it up because he effectively gave Cutcliffe an ultimatum and Cutcliffe called his bluff.

 

[bonedaddy401]

 

[coachdaddy]

But, Mario Christobal would be a good hire- i must have posted in the wrong 17n place.

 

[Liverdawg]

Ole Miss is positioning themselves to hire Mullen after the egg bowl. We all know that Mullen is anxious to move to a better job and Ole Miss is clearly on a different plane than State. Why go out and hire the next Dan Mullen, when you can just hire Dan Mullen?

 

[Original48]

nmDS

 

[fishwater99]

You don't do what we did if you're planning on firing a coach. That's why I know we weren't planning on firing Cutcliffe in 2004. Anyone with half a brain can see that. <span style="font-weight: bold;">Boone screwed it up because he effectively gave Cutcliffe an ultimatum and Cutcliffe called his bluff.</span>

It saved his job after the Cutcliffe debacle and his hiring of The Orgeron. Now Nutt may be the reason Boone is let go. I don't think Pete will fire Nutt, but he might get fired instead.. I bet this will take a little while to play out...

 

[patdog]

You go in knowing if you're going to fire a coach or not. If you're going to do it, you do it the day after the last game, if you haven't already, and if you aren't going to do it but you want to see change, you tell him you want change, let him decide how to change it, give him one more year, and then you can him after the next year when he fails again.

Telling a coach he "has" to make changes is tying one hand behind his back. We all saw how well that worked out in Tuberville's last year at Auburn. You either fire the coach or you tell him he's got one more year and here are some changes you'd like to see. But you have to give him the final decision on those changes.

 

[shsdawg]

Just saying. I don't think it was necessarily a terrible hire knowing what we knew of him at the time. It's always risky hiring someone without HC experience. Mullen has worked out so far, Orgeron didn't. No idea how a coaching search would go for Ole Miss right now.

It's a long story why, but anyway when y'all hired the Orgre there was one 3 post thread in the USC board I go to about it. One guy askedif we would miss him. The other two posts explained that he was a decent recruiter but as far as coaching about all he did was rip off his shirt and scream when a little screaming was called for. He wasn't even a name position coach as far as they were concerned. Y'all should have booted Boone upstairs after that one.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

1. Battle for the Golden Egg 2004 - November 27 - Saturday
2. Clarion-Ledger reports Cutcliffe & Boone have meetings onNovember 29 - 30 - Monday & Tuesday
3. Cutcliffe fired on December 1 - Wednesday

I could see the firing happening on Tuesday at the earliest based on that timeline. However,I heardpeople saying before the Egg Bowl that Cutcliffe was going to be fired, so what am I missing?

 

[o_OxfordAndrew]

Cut pretty much gave up on everything towards the end, in my opinion, not just recruiting. And I've never made any jokes about Chris Wilson being "Co-Defensive Coordinator" with Manny Diaz. I didn't even know he was until you said that, and I don't think I've ever talked coordinator smack (though I could understand it about Nix).

 

[Todd4State]

nm

 

[windcrysmary]

not wanting the job.... based on 34's points he pointed out with the history of how they handled cut and how things have now unfolded with nutt...


no matter how you slice it at ole miss, you've still got to compete with MSU ... I realize beating us isn't their main goal... neither is our main goal beating them... that's been discussed adnauseam..

but in the end, if we have a decent coach, not neccessarily a great one, ole miss will not fly by us like they did for so long...those days are over.. ole miss fans will not tolerate being on our level... anything less than flying by us and beating us 7 out of every 10 and going to much better bowls than us will be unacceptable to the ole miss fan base and any prospective coach with common sense will know that is just not realistic.... winning records and independence bowls don't cut it either.... ole miss expects more and if you don't deliver more, your out...

based on the way things have developed over the years, it would apppear the MSU job is more appealing than the ole miss job... coach o an asst head coach at SC?...I say that's bull ****.. I don't care if he carried that title ...it had to be some type of smoke and mirror ******** because he's the stupidist 17 outside croom to ever be in charge of a SEC team... THAT coaching search really defines the ole miss program .. coach after coach after coach saying no sir.....NOT the luck they stumbled upon when nutt came knocking unemployed....

Dan Mullen was already being talked about before we hired him as a hot commodity... when O was hired people asked "who the hell is he"?.... that ole miss search was a joke and everybody knows it... the national sports people joked about it all the time... and justifiably so...

any coach should run as far away from that job as humanly possible because it is a graveyard and the tombstones are there to prove it... so are the jokes... more to follow... gonna be good

 

[Incognegro]

Butch Davis is currently in talks with Ole Miss. Personally.... I like Butch... but if The Bears do indeed go this route, I don't see it working out any better than the whole Nutt ordeal even though Davis is a much better coach (in my opinion). Only reason I could see this happening is because both the program and coach seem to be in desperate positions (the school more so than the coach).<div>
</div><div>Just getting this out there as it's only something I've heard. Not claiming to know Deepthroat so I won't try to back up the validity of this.</div>

 

[gravedigger]

It says that if you win many years and lose just one , someone who knows nothing about your job suddenly will tell you precicely how to do it or you will be fired.

It says that if you spend money to find out what you dont want to find out, you will basically ignore the advice.

It says that you must have experience to be successful and that experience alone, no matter how erratic, will ultimately be forgotten when it fails to produce results. That is, of course until next time, when experience is all that matters.

But history does not tell us other things...like:

how much people who dont know it, really are affected by it.

how much people who absolutely rely on it, are simply incapable of moving on.

Look, If there were an opportunity to take over a progam on the rise wouldnt the line have formed the day Cuttcliff left? Hell, he won.

Orgeron was the best example of what you are facing. Nutt needed a soft place to land after a tumultious ending at his dream job. There isnt another one of him out there right now. If there were, he'd probably understand what just happened in oxford is about as good as it gets.

Jackie had us less than a quarter away from a bcs game with a freshman qb.

The perception is that in Oxford, you cant get there with one of the best qb's in the last 50 years.

Now...you were saying.

 

[shsdawg]

it would probably be the end of their special relationship with the NCAA.

 

[biguglyjoe]

Nah, not at all.
UNC's Self-imposed penalties:

_________________________________________________<font size="2">
Self imposed:
1) "University will vacate all victories by the football program during the 2008 and 2009 seasons."

2) "University will reduce by a total of nine the number of both initial and total grants-in-aid over a three-year period"

3) "University will self-impose two years of probation beginning on the date this response is submitted."

I doubt that will be enough to appease the NCAA.

UNC's response to NCAA allegations.
</font>

 

[BCash]

"I don't think it was necessarily a terrible hire knowing what we knew of him at the time."

Youre fanbase and administration didn't know **** about Orgeron when you hired him. Both simply saw "USC", natIonal champions, recruiting stars. That's the problem that pervades ole miss fans and your administrators. Youre all delusional pretentious dumbasses that still, as you stated above, can't understand where y'all are wrong.

 

[coorslightdawg]

Cutt being fired had nothing to do with his one losing season. It goes back to Boone and Khayat's "new and innovative" way of dealing with the NCAA.