Mizzou beats SC at SC by 22
- Thread starter Coach34
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That would be an interesting thread...
What coaches in the NCAA past or present would you trade for Rick Ray? Or it may be easier to say, name a coach you would NOT trade for Rick Ray.*
Poor bastard might have ruined his shot at ever being a head coach again after this disaster he took over. I really hope for OUR sake And his sake, that he can be successful here.
I would also like to point out that the great John Brady lost to 12-19 N. Texas
by 24 points tonight. How is that possible, seeing that he is assisted by Richard Williams? I'm befuddled.
by 24 points tonight. How is that possible, seeing that he is assisted by Richard Williams? I'm befuddled.
How can you determine what kind of a coach Ray is based off this season?
He has the worst depth in the country and only 3-4 SEC caliber players that are currently playing.
If anything, he's impressed me with his intensity and knowledge of the game. And the players work their tails off, they just suck right now.
If we aren't getting close to the NCAA Tournament after Year 3 or 4, we can bash him. But don't blame him for this train wreck.
This ain't just a renovation project. It's a demolition and total reconstruction of a program. Unfortunately our fans are so impatient that we already have folks wanting him gone.
He has the worst depth in the country and only 3-4 SEC caliber players that are currently playing.
If anything, he's impressed me with his intensity and knowledge of the game. And the players work their tails off, they just suck right now.
If we aren't getting close to the NCAA Tournament after Year 3 or 4, we can bash him. But don't blame him for this train wreck.
This ain't just a renovation project. It's a demolition and total reconstruction of a program. Unfortunately our fans are so impatient that we already have folks wanting him gone.
It's not worth it
Some of these people will just argue just for the sake of arguing. There is no logic in the argument's against Ray, but they keep coming over and over with every loss. They act like we are supposed to randomly play great basketball after we have been bad all season. So instead of each loss just proving the point that we are really bad, they compound each loss and make it a reason to bash Ray again.
Some of these people will just argue just for the sake of arguing. There is no logic in the argument's against Ray, but they keep coming over and over with every loss. They act like we are supposed to randomly play great basketball after we have been bad all season. So instead of each loss just proving the point that we are really bad, they compound each loss and make it a reason to bash Ray again.
Everyone with a brain agrees that it is too early. However, if you are basing things on Right This Second...you would have to pick many others over Ray by default. I think Ray could be a good coach when he gets some depth. I hope he is, bc he deserves it for taking on a challenge like this with a disgruntled fan base.
All of that being said...you also have to be able to make fun of yourself every now and then. Nobody worth a **** will truly judge Ray for a few more years, but this year is down right laughable. I've won more money by betting on the spreads of our games and the "under" this year, than I have ever won in my life betting on sports.
Name one category Ray's team is atleast average at? After 27 games you should be able to identify atleast one thing Ray's team is somewhat decent at. Shooting? Rebounding? Passing? Turnovers? 3's? Free throws? Mid-range game? Setting screens and using the pick and roll or back door cuts? (Have we done either of those one single time?) Dunking? Transition offense? Transition defense? Full court press? Blocks? Steals? Dribble drive? Defense? Scoring points or scoring margin?[FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]
The answer is NONE of those things does Ray's team perform at just an AVERAGE level. I'm not asking for a top 25 level. I simply just want ONE category his team is at a top 200 level. You can't name one because it doesn't exist. That's a problem. A BIG 17ING PROBLEM.
I'll name one for you though. Ray's team takes an *** beating without pouting BETTER than ANY team I've ever seen and they are statistically FANTASTIC at not getting technical fouls. So he's got that going for him. [/FONT]
The answer is NONE of those things does Ray's team perform at just an AVERAGE level. I'm not asking for a top 25 level. I simply just want ONE category his team is at a top 200 level. You can't name one because it doesn't exist. That's a problem. A BIG 17ING PROBLEM.
I'll name one for you though. Ray's team takes an *** beating without pouting BETTER than ANY team I've ever seen and they are statistically FANTASTIC at not getting technical fouls. So he's got that going for him. [/FONT]
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Here's my last post on this topic.
We have 8 players. Baxter Price is one of them. Tyson Cunningham is another. Two walk-ons that should not touch the floor. Ever. But by necessity they have to.
Craig Sword- explosive off the dribble, but he is forced into mistakes by trying to do too much. He will be a good player for us, but he is not a PG by any means. He is a true freshmen who shouldn't be expected to do as much as he is having to do. Him pressing is causing mistakes.
Fred Thomas-very athletic player who has a nice midrange shot. Not as good of an outside threat as we had hoped, and hopefully he will be able to increase that over the summer. Very active defensively which is nice to see. Another true freshman forced into something he was not prepared to handle. His mistakes will diminish next year.
Gavin Ware- Yet another true freshman who is trying to do too much because he is overwhelmed. However he has been a bright spot in my mind and this season is helping his game. It really hurts him that there is no other big man on our team.
Colin Borchert- He really is just not very good.
Trivante Bloodman- He just is not good. He is being asked to run point, and he is just not talented enough to do that at this level.
Jalen Steele- He is a shooter but that is about it. He can play good defense as well, but his forte is shooting the 3-ball. Take that away from him and he is limited.
So you have 3 freshmen who are in over their heads and trying to do too much (but if they don't no one else will), a junior who is a spot shooter, and two JUCOs who just aren't very good. That is your big problem right there. Next year with a year of experience, and with a full team we will be better.
Now you can have the last word if you would like.
We have 8 players. Baxter Price is one of them. Tyson Cunningham is another. Two walk-ons that should not touch the floor. Ever. But by necessity they have to.
Craig Sword- explosive off the dribble, but he is forced into mistakes by trying to do too much. He will be a good player for us, but he is not a PG by any means. He is a true freshmen who shouldn't be expected to do as much as he is having to do. Him pressing is causing mistakes.
Fred Thomas-very athletic player who has a nice midrange shot. Not as good of an outside threat as we had hoped, and hopefully he will be able to increase that over the summer. Very active defensively which is nice to see. Another true freshman forced into something he was not prepared to handle. His mistakes will diminish next year.
Gavin Ware- Yet another true freshman who is trying to do too much because he is overwhelmed. However he has been a bright spot in my mind and this season is helping his game. It really hurts him that there is no other big man on our team.
Colin Borchert- He really is just not very good.
Trivante Bloodman- He just is not good. He is being asked to run point, and he is just not talented enough to do that at this level.
Jalen Steele- He is a shooter but that is about it. He can play good defense as well, but his forte is shooting the 3-ball. Take that away from him and he is limited.
So you have 3 freshmen who are in over their heads and trying to do too much (but if they don't no one else will), a junior who is a spot shooter, and two JUCOs who just aren't very good. That is your big problem right there. Next year with a year of experience, and with a full team we will be better.
Now you can have the last word if you would like.
I will be ...
Intensely pulling for the Dogs Sat ... we need something positive and beating OM would be great for this program.
It's been 20 years since we have lost twice to the bears in the same season.
Intensely pulling for the Dogs Sat ... we need something positive and beating OM would be great for this program.
It's been 20 years since we have lost twice to the bears in the same season.
I'm confused ...
What is this post susposed to mean? Are you trying to make us feel better about Ray by saying USCe is 'almost' as bad as us?
You do know that ... One of two SEC wins that Ray has is against USCe ... the GameCocks beat OM a few weeks ago ... State plays USCe next week ... A win over theUSCe would at least keep State tied for last in the SEC ... Stans 'owned' USCe with a record of 11-3.
Ray needs a win over OM, USCe or AUB to avoid the 'longest' losing steak in the 104 years of MSU Basketball.
Just pointing that out
What is this post susposed to mean? Are you trying to make us feel better about Ray by saying USCe is 'almost' as bad as us?
You do know that ... One of two SEC wins that Ray has is against USCe ... the GameCocks beat OM a few weeks ago ... State plays USCe next week ... A win over theUSCe would at least keep State tied for last in the SEC ... Stans 'owned' USCe with a record of 11-3.
Ray needs a win over OM, USCe or AUB to avoid the 'longest' losing steak in the 104 years of MSU Basketball.
Just pointing that out
Who recruited Bloodman and Borchert. If these are the type players he will get .then next will be his last .You are making DAWG61 points. Our last coach got the other 4 players you talked about.The thing Ray has going for him is this year's pass and his passion .If next year is a train wreck he could be gone.
Some of y'all are so 17'ing stupid. How can you even begin to evaluate the job Ray has done this yr? There is not one coach in this country that could have 3 or 4 more wins coaching this same team. My god, Tyson Cunningham wouldn't even get picked up in a 5 on 5 game in the Sanderson. And Baxter Price...I'm better than Baxter Price. If you didn't think this was going to be a building process then open your eyes. **** you idiots bashing him publicly are just digging him into a deeper hole. Let the guy do his thing. At least give him 1 full yr to recruit and play with actual D-1 players. If yr 3 we are still getting embarrassed then that's another story. It is beyond me how ignorant some of you are. Just chill and enjoy baseball. Oh wait, y'all ***** about that to and we are 10 and 17'ing 0.
The wins and losses don't concern me right now. The 30 point beat downs don't overly concern me.
The fact that I can't say that anyone on the team is playing better now than they did in November does concern me. I had hoped to see some improved play over the course of the season from the freshmen.
I know. I know. We have no depth and the players are "gassed". But come on. Is it too much to ask for a few 19-20 year olds to get past the fact that we played 4 days earlier and us not to be down by 20-30 right out of the gate almost every game?
PS: I am not necessarily blaming Coach Ray for this either. It could be the player's fault for all I know.
The fact that I can't say that anyone on the team is playing better now than they did in November does concern me. I had hoped to see some improved play over the course of the season from the freshmen.
I know. I know. We have no depth and the players are "gassed". But come on. Is it too much to ask for a few 19-20 year olds to get past the fact that we played 4 days earlier and us not to be down by 20-30 right out of the gate almost every game?
PS: I am not necessarily blaming Coach Ray for this either. It could be the player's fault for all I know.
Not really b/c it's a horrible comparison.
That's like saying a RB who is 1 for 1 in passing for 1 TD is better than a QB who has thrown 10 INT's but 25 TD's.
That's like saying a RB who is 1 for 1 in passing for 1 TD is better than a QB who has thrown 10 INT's but 25 TD's.
How? Nobody expected many wins but before the season the ONE thing that everyone agreed as being the key to a successful season was that we wanted to see improvement. Can you honestly sit there and tell me that we've improved? I don't think that's really asking for too much but maybe our expectations were just too high. I mean who in their right mind would ask something so difficult out of a first year head coach?
???? I think we have a pretty good idea of what we'd be getting with Cunningham or Kirby, and the ceiling aint high. I can understand being skeptical of Ray, but if you've already judged them to be better than ray on the basis of this season, you're not even trying to look at it objectively.
Yes, Ware, Sword, and Thomas were all recruited by Stans. As I've pointed out before, it's pretty damn easy to get out of a LOI from D1 basketball. I remember Ware discussing going elsewhere. Ray reeled them in so in some form or fashion you have to give him credit.
I give him a pass on Borchert, Bloodman, Applewhite, Daniels, and Nyode (sp?). We literally just needed bodies. Bash Borchert but he's been one of our best defensive players, and kudos for going and getting a 2 year guy in Borchert and a 3 year guy in Bloodman instead of an equal talent 4/5 year player.
Here's why I'm optimistic. 1. A lot of great former players at Purdue still tweet at the man. He's had some kind of impact on them and that tells me he is able to connect with kids. 2. Ray's staff had ONE connection in recruiting and it was IJ and they got him. 1 for 1. A lot of people are quick to talk about how Stans was a great recruiter, but he had been here talking to players and gotten face time in high schools for years at the time when he was hired. Ray probably had only heard of MSU from the score alerts on ESPN before coming here. Give him time to plant his feet in the ground before you raise hell about the kind of players he brings in. Some of you act like Stansbury never brought in a Bloodman or Borchert. 3. He went to the #1 team in the country and offered a big man. Is he good? Meh. What does that tell you though? He's building relationships for the future. Hell, Stansbury offered Johnson to get an "in" with Sword. The Findley kid has a lot more up side than Johnson.
To sum that up, I don't think Borchert, Bloodman, Applewhite, or Daniels are the type of player you will see from Ray moving forward.
I give him a pass on Borchert, Bloodman, Applewhite, Daniels, and Nyode (sp?). We literally just needed bodies. Bash Borchert but he's been one of our best defensive players, and kudos for going and getting a 2 year guy in Borchert and a 3 year guy in Bloodman instead of an equal talent 4/5 year player.
Here's why I'm optimistic. 1. A lot of great former players at Purdue still tweet at the man. He's had some kind of impact on them and that tells me he is able to connect with kids. 2. Ray's staff had ONE connection in recruiting and it was IJ and they got him. 1 for 1. A lot of people are quick to talk about how Stans was a great recruiter, but he had been here talking to players and gotten face time in high schools for years at the time when he was hired. Ray probably had only heard of MSU from the score alerts on ESPN before coming here. Give him time to plant his feet in the ground before you raise hell about the kind of players he brings in. Some of you act like Stansbury never brought in a Bloodman or Borchert. 3. He went to the #1 team in the country and offered a big man. Is he good? Meh. What does that tell you though? He's building relationships for the future. Hell, Stansbury offered Johnson to get an "in" with Sword. The Findley kid has a lot more up side than Johnson.
To sum that up, I don't think Borchert, Bloodman, Applewhite, or Daniels are the type of player you will see from Ray moving forward.
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You dont even realize how stupid your post is do you? When Ray got the job, guys like Bloodman and Borchert were all that was left to recruit. And he had to start from scratch. What in the hell did you expect him find that late?
I was talking with someone the other day who I consider pretty knowledgeable about basketball. He lives and breathes it. He said mostly where you get improvement during the season is practice against decent players. Considering our roster in it's current state - it just doesn't happen. He said you have to give Ray a complete pass for this season.
Are you really so dumb that you cant understand the context in which these guys were recruited?
Ray was hired in the spring, shortly before the spring signing period.
1- Almost anyone who is a complete player or projects to be one is already signed by the spring.
2- Historically, the spring is where teams pick up players that are either limited in athleticism or specialize in one thing(shooting, defense, etc).
3- Ray had little time to recruit.
Why is it even questioned if these are the type of players he will continue to get? We are a midsized school with a small budget in the SEC, we are rebuilding, and we are not some program with a bunch of history that is a sleeping giant. Basically, it could take a few years to build relationships and land better players.
Ray didnt waste scholarships on 4 year players with midiocre talent, he went after JUCOs instead, which frees their scholarships up sooner. Thats a good thing.
I'm just pointing out that a proven winner as a basketball coach, with a full roster of scholarship players, lost by 22 at home and it could have easily been worse. And then I just watched the agendas flow afterward
You are a fine one to talk about this .You ask who Ron Greene was two weeks ago.that told me alot about what you do not know .Well who was the guy who follow him .Tell me and what did he do to our basketball program . It took 10 years to recover from that .I like some of the things Ray is doing coaching wise. and he as passion,but can he recruit that is my biggest worry. I could on and on all day about this. Hell you still ***** about Stansbury,over on 24/7 some guy is saying Sword and Steele is leaving ,besides his coaching all you ***** about was his transfers .I guess Ray gets a pass if they leave.You allways jump on people like me , Dawgbreeze and DAWG61 ,remember we have seen what a bad coach does to a program. I am not saying Ray is one ,but history does repeat it self.
Martin said every player he had except Ellington could star on the Walking Dead.
Martin seems to think highly of His team.
Martin seems to think highly of His team.
^^^^ THIS - and I really think Ray's biggest hurdle is not having guys in practice to push his freshmen. I think we'll know for sure by Feb or next year if we have anything here or not with Ray. We'll be a few games into the SEC season and the early signing period will be done. If we don't have defections and injuries we should be at least competing in most SEC games (save FL and probably KY and maybe Mizzou).
If we're not, the offense looks abysmal and the recruiting class is very underwhelming then I think we have reason to be quite concerned.
If we're not, the offense looks abysmal and the recruiting class is very underwhelming then I think we have reason to be quite concerned.
Steele is from East Tn. ,he would go closer to home.Why are we talking this it is not the point .Are you happy with Bloodman's play ,we could have recruited better .Yes ,Why did we tell Trey Dickerson not to come as he was getting on a plane ,we took Bloodman over him.Would Brice Rowe have been better than Bloodman ,you tell me . Borchert had Georgetown interested in him ,but are you happy with his play .Daniel who we signed ,were they beating down the doors to sign him. Last but not least was Ray on your short list of coaches to replaced Stansbury. Ray does get a pass this year but for how long ,I tell you next March how long. I point things out weather you think they are stupid or not ,I don't give a damn what you are entitle... oh wait I watching to many movies.