More facts for the "Fire Stoops" club
- Thread starter UKani
- Start date
You're new to us, but there actually were lots of people who wanted Rich out after 3. Not many of the rational fans, but plenty of people "Ditch Mitch and Rich" bumper stickers all around haha.
That said... Watching Rich Brooks first teams, and they were rough watches, you couldn't help but see the shocking talent disparity on the field. Watching Stoops early teams you can't help but see the shocking talent disparity on the headphones. He will get next year. If he went to midfield, dropped trou and took a steamer on the H/X hybrid logo every week next year, he's getting the entire season, and almost certainly getting all of '17 too. That said, he's not above criticism, and that's what he's getting. It comes across as bashing when it's not stated well enough, but I'd say this staff is being fairly criticized. A fan base that doesn't criticize poor performance is one that doesn't care. The bashing is a good sign. Joker got bashed when he was showing he was in over his head, and then he stopped getting bashed when the fan base went quiet. You'll be praised when you do well here, criticized (perhaps even "bashed") when you do poorly, but when we stop talking at all, that's when 5,500 people show up to watch a conference game.
Perhaps this staff can learn on the job in the SEC. There's a first time for everything.
I think Stoops still has a shot with the fanbase because enough are pissed off which tells me folks still care. He has another bad season and I think real apathy settles in.
KY Football fans are desperate for a winning program. Years of disappointment has come to a boiling point because many felt Stoops was the last shot KY had at turning this around. Fans went " all in" and feel let down.
I have serious doubts now, but it is now completely up to the coaches and players to get the job done. I am just tired of losing. Pure and simple. I just hope the coaches and players are more tired of it than the fanbase is because I think there are some on the team who are not 100% committed. That is disappointing. Coaching has got to get better but players have to make plays as well.
KY Football fans are desperate for a winning program. Years of disappointment has come to a boiling point because many felt Stoops was the last shot KY had at turning this around. Fans went " all in" and feel let down.
I have serious doubts now, but it is now completely up to the coaches and players to get the job done. I am just tired of losing. Pure and simple. I just hope the coaches and players are more tired of it than the fanbase is because I think there are some on the team who are not 100% committed. That is disappointing. Coaching has got to get better but players have to make plays as well.
This. The stoops bashing is pointless anyway, he's getting at least 1 more year. Might as well hope he does well.
The Vandy game is where the season went down the tubes. 1st and goal from the 1 yard line and got zilch, pass intercepted in Vandy end zone, a pick six for Vandy, an unbelievable blunder on a short field goal where we get a delay of game penalty, a completely uncovered WR coming out of a time out, and finally taking a sack to end the game without even getting a hail-mary pass off.
This game had so many errors, it would not even be believable in a Hollywood movie script !
This game had so many errors, it would not even be believable in a Hollywood movie script !
Mobley was legit and I wish we wouldn't have lost him. He was a pure demon at the end of 13. I won't surprised to see him playing on Sundays.
However, most of the other 50 players were never heard from again and they were never, ever going to play at a SEC level. A lot of them never even made it here in the first place.
Well,Well, Well, the sunshine pumpers are out in force. Several weeks after another losing season and they're back telling us everything is alright. At least the previous season we almost beat Florida and Mississippi State, what the hell is the excuse this year? Blown out at home and totally overwhelmed in other games,Stoops is in over his head.
Ah, we did almost beat Florida this year as well.
But I'll grant this season was a stinker. We took a step back from last year in terms of performance.
Sadly the improvement next year will have to come in the look test on the field. 6 wins next year would be tremendous with the most likely scenario being 3-5 wins.
UK may be lacking in talent compared to other SEC teams but that will always be the case sans Missouri and vandy. Looking like a well organized disciplined team however relies on coaching and we got a big fat F there in stoops 3rd year. Good news is there is no way to go but up, he can't coach worse.
As far as the defense gassed theory, uh no!!!! Uofl had the ball all of about 10 minutes in the first half with UK keeping the ball for the last 6 1/2 minutes of the first half. The defense took the field in the second half as rested as a team could possibly be and forced a 3 and out on their first series. Why? LJ threw 2 of 3 times. After that he ran and ran and ran and I don't think we tackled him once. He ran out of bounds or scored on every rush he had. Uofl scored on every possession but the first and one in the 4th Qtr of the 2nd half.
The post by our resident parent says it all, Elliot thought he could get one stop with their strategy and put the game away. No adjustments just keep doing what isn't working and hope that it does. We were not going to stop uofl, they could only stop themselves which they didn't.
There is plenty of video to put together a how not to coach instructional video from this years whole staff. Incompetence at its finest and at a nice premium at that. He will get two more years though, no worries on that but will the fanbase still be here? Not likely!!!
UK may be lacking in talent compared to other SEC teams but that will always be the case sans Missouri and vandy. Looking like a well organized disciplined team however relies on coaching and we got a big fat F there in stoops 3rd year. Good news is there is no way to go but up, he can't coach worse.
As far as the defense gassed theory, uh no!!!! Uofl had the ball all of about 10 minutes in the first half with UK keeping the ball for the last 6 1/2 minutes of the first half. The defense took the field in the second half as rested as a team could possibly be and forced a 3 and out on their first series. Why? LJ threw 2 of 3 times. After that he ran and ran and ran and I don't think we tackled him once. He ran out of bounds or scored on every rush he had. Uofl scored on every possession but the first and one in the 4th Qtr of the 2nd half.
The post by our resident parent says it all, Elliot thought he could get one stop with their strategy and put the game away. No adjustments just keep doing what isn't working and hope that it does. We were not going to stop uofl, they could only stop themselves which they didn't.
There is plenty of video to put together a how not to coach instructional video from this years whole staff. Incompetence at its finest and at a nice premium at that. He will get two more years though, no worries on that but will the fanbase still be here? Not likely!!!
Yep lack of talent is the only cause of all this.
Course you're gonna lack talent when you put 8 guys on the field instead of 11.
I can handle the lack of talent. I understand that.
I can't handle not being able to get lined up for a field goal. Delay of games on the first drive of a series and to many numerous others to list.
I understand it happening occasionally but its consistently. No excuse for that. He's been in football a long time.
I want him to be the guy badly. Coach and his staff need to get themselves together first before anything can improve.
Course you're gonna lack talent when you put 8 guys on the field instead of 11.
I can handle the lack of talent. I understand that.
I can't handle not being able to get lined up for a field goal. Delay of games on the first drive of a series and to many numerous others to list.
I understand it happening occasionally but its consistently. No excuse for that. He's been in football a long time.
I want him to be the guy badly. Coach and his staff need to get themselves together first before anything can improve.
No you are unbelievable! This coaching staff is a joke as a whole, only coaches I want to stay is stoops, marrow, ansley, Scott. The season is over, it left us wanting. Next year is it.
I have been "all in" with Stoops from the beginning. I do believe coaching cost us two wins this season and an opportunity to go bowling. I've leaned toward giving him the benefit of the doubt all the way through, until the Louisville game. To allow the same play, knowing it was coming, to beat you without making adjustments is inexcusable!
You say adjustments may have been made but players wouldn't execute? Bench them! You say second string players aren't as talented? I say they couldn't have done any worse! AND the bench is a good coaching tool that allows players to be more "coachable". They'll listen and execute or be a spectator!
The scary part to me now is this, the season ended and the coaching needs adjustments and Stoops seems to be taking the same course - do nothing - and that just isn't acceptable!!! He needs help it's obvious, and that's okay because no one man can do what he's seemingly trying to do on his own. He needs to address the staff and their responsibilities, trust them with their responsibilities and hold them responsible for them, keep recruiting and stay the course.
I'm undecided on renewing my four season tickets at this point simply because I can't afford to throw away $2,500 for a product that breaks my heart annually...
You say adjustments may have been made but players wouldn't execute? Bench them! You say second string players aren't as talented? I say they couldn't have done any worse! AND the bench is a good coaching tool that allows players to be more "coachable". They'll listen and execute or be a spectator!
The scary part to me now is this, the season ended and the coaching needs adjustments and Stoops seems to be taking the same course - do nothing - and that just isn't acceptable!!! He needs help it's obvious, and that's okay because no one man can do what he's seemingly trying to do on his own. He needs to address the staff and their responsibilities, trust them with their responsibilities and hold them responsible for them, keep recruiting and stay the course.
I'm undecided on renewing my four season tickets at this point simply because I can't afford to throw away $2,500 for a product that breaks my heart annually...
There's arguments on both sides for keep Stoops/Fire Stoops. That was pointed out yesterday in the other thread. I don't see how the Stoops' supporters don't see the red flags. Second half season and game collapses, lack of adjustments, and dysfunction in the locker room. One guy says this, the other guy says that to the media after games.
Just take WKU for a quick example. They were pretty much mismatched in talent and depth against LSU. But go back and watch that game. Even when they start getting taken over the team still looks well-coached. You don't see the confusion on the sideline. You don't see them quit.
I get that Stoops is going to get another year or two. I'm pretty much in agreeance with that but don't ignore the obvious. It's not just lack of depth and youth. I don't think you can give Mark Stoops and the rest of this coaching staff Florida's or Ohio State's or LSU's roster and he would have a similar record as they do now. There's a lot of leadership issues that I think are causing some major issues with UK football right now. We're really spinning our tires as a program right now and looking like we might go backwards. Maybe he fixes it all in the off-season. Everyone has a come to Jesus meeting and they all get on the same page, win 6 games and get over the hump but nothing from the last 3 years has shown me that's going to happen. That's why I want to move on from Mark Stoops.
Just take WKU for a quick example. They were pretty much mismatched in talent and depth against LSU. But go back and watch that game. Even when they start getting taken over the team still looks well-coached. You don't see the confusion on the sideline. You don't see them quit.
I get that Stoops is going to get another year or two. I'm pretty much in agreeance with that but don't ignore the obvious. It's not just lack of depth and youth. I don't think you can give Mark Stoops and the rest of this coaching staff Florida's or Ohio State's or LSU's roster and he would have a similar record as they do now. There's a lot of leadership issues that I think are causing some major issues with UK football right now. We're really spinning our tires as a program right now and looking like we might go backwards. Maybe he fixes it all in the off-season. Everyone has a come to Jesus meeting and they all get on the same page, win 6 games and get over the hump but nothing from the last 3 years has shown me that's going to happen. That's why I want to move on from Mark Stoops.
If anyone would have known prior to the 2013 just how mediocre the SEC East would become, they sure as hell would not have had the same expectations for progress by year 3 under Stoops.
While I don't think that UK is in a position to replace Stoops THIS season, only a fool would look at what has happened through year 3 and be confident that this is going in the right direction.
So, people can keep shining this turd via multiple threads claiming how absurd it is to be unhappy with Stoops, but reality says that Stoops has done little to cause fans to ignore the failures we have witnessed on the field.
Stoops has next season to change that perception. If he can't next season, he needs to be fired because the program will only suffer further for every day they prolong the inevitable.
While I don't think that UK is in a position to replace Stoops THIS season, only a fool would look at what has happened through year 3 and be confident that this is going in the right direction.
So, people can keep shining this turd via multiple threads claiming how absurd it is to be unhappy with Stoops, but reality says that Stoops has done little to cause fans to ignore the failures we have witnessed on the field.
Stoops has next season to change that perception. If he can't next season, he needs to be fired because the program will only suffer further for every day they prolong the inevitable.
Barnhart should have given Stoops an extension to 2025, everybody knows it takes at least 12-15 years to build a program in the SEC. What do you people expect, buncha microwave fans. SMH
Jokers recruiting classes were disastrous - basically self imposed probation. The upper classes Stoops has had to deal with have been below MAC level.
Player development under Stoops has been a mixed bag...
I think the DL and LBs have developed as good as any could hope - guys like Dupree and Forrest getting shots at the NFL, guys like Huguenin, M Douglas, K Henderson, J Johnson actually making impacts when it looked bleak early in their careers.
The secondary players improved slightly via development - Quinn and Tiller improved a little, but Stamps didn't show much improvement and basically the unit improved solely due to recruiting improvements.
I cant look at offensive player development and see anything there under Stoops. Honestly, I can't think of anyone.
Stoops needs to coach better - Vandy game was inexcusable.
So I think you can agree with the OP, while also thinking coaching has to improve as well...not sure why everyone has to be so extreme either way.
Player development under Stoops has been a mixed bag...
I think the DL and LBs have developed as good as any could hope - guys like Dupree and Forrest getting shots at the NFL, guys like Huguenin, M Douglas, K Henderson, J Johnson actually making impacts when it looked bleak early in their careers.
The secondary players improved slightly via development - Quinn and Tiller improved a little, but Stamps didn't show much improvement and basically the unit improved solely due to recruiting improvements.
I cant look at offensive player development and see anything there under Stoops. Honestly, I can't think of anyone.
Stoops needs to coach better - Vandy game was inexcusable.
So I think you can agree with the OP, while also thinking coaching has to improve as well...not sure why everyone has to be so extreme either way.
no, what is absurd is those calling for Stoops to be fired and not have any intelligent plan beyond that. Such as letting the same AD who hired Stoops AND Joker do the hiring AGAIN.
Now that is absurd, stupid, moronic, short sighted, idiotic. Those calling for only the coach to be fired to answer for their 20 or 30 or 40 year unhappiness with the results of UK football are just dumber than a bag full of hammers.
Last season should not have been a 3 win season. We absolutely did not over achieve. We beat bad teams. The only team we beat that could have beaten us was USC. And they were just a 7-6 team. So that was a mild upset at best. Other than that I'm not sure who we beat that we shouldn't have.
The team would have to get hit by a bus on the way to the game to have lost to Ohio or UT Martin. Saying he is a prisoner to his success is the silliest thing that has been posted recently. We've beat a total of 1 team in 3 years that we shouldn't have. I think you'll find that to be standard for just about every team in the country. Over a 3 year span every team will achieve at least 1 upset. Well coached teams will do it more like once per year.
We may have been a few bounces from 7 wins but we were also a few bounces from 2 wins. Hell we were lucky to beat a bad EKU team and they were so bad they fired their coach.
I get it you're pro Stoops. That's as fine with me as the fire Stoops crowd. I'm pro UK. I can live with Stoops or without him as long as we win. You are one of the better posters. Please don't lower yourself to the sanctimonious attitude that some others do. We can lose the "What's worn with this world today" and the "Stoops haters" crap. We are all UK fans. If Stoops wins no problems. If he doesn't I have no problem demanding his job.
If a coach can't develop a competitive team in three years somethings wrong.Competitive is the key.Just show that you can compete, make adjustments,learn from your past mistakes,and put a team on the field that looks organized and ready to play.These are the situations fans are looking for.Not a team that allows another to score multiple times like UT did in a short amount of time.
Why blame Joker for this years performance? The better players he recruited were still here.And the current coach and his staff has had three years to improve the quality of play of their football team.
Why blame Joker for this years performance? The better players he recruited were still here.And the current coach and his staff has had three years to improve the quality of play of their football team.
Joker still owns some of this because the guys he recruited should be dominating our junior and senior classes...should be the ones on the field and with all of the experience.
Stoops has to own the lack of offensive player development...and he has to own his game management/coaching hires/and QB selection.
THis. Nobody holds Joker blameless. He was a train wreck. Still several of the losses have not come down to recruiting they have come down to game management and staff decisions.
I hear that 'own' crap all the time, or 'I take full responsibility' - but there are no actions behind the words. Is Stoops going to voluntarily take a pay cut? Or resign if he doesn't get it done next year?
Um, sorry I said own. Those issues are Stoops fault and he needs to resolve them. As for your questions, no. Hardly anyone at any position would.
he's just following the lead of his AD: declare victory and take a big raise and extention.
Some people just don't get it. The players are the ones who block and tackle. At this level there are no tricks. You either have them or you don't. "Coaching up" is a popular phrase but if it's not there to begin with you can't turn a 5.2 forty into a 4.5 forty.
A players genetic potential is a stone wall that no amount of coaching, being a Ky boy or media/fan dreams can break down. Anyone who has been a player, past high school, eventually knows this. Forget Hollywood movies.
A players genetic potential is a stone wall that no amount of coaching, being a Ky boy or media/fan dreams can break down. Anyone who has been a player, past high school, eventually knows this. Forget Hollywood movies.
Yep.....those rosters at Vandy and UL are just full of thoroughbreds. We were lucky to get by the perennial powers EKU and ULL. [eyeroll]
In all seriousness, I don't buy the argument that we can't hope to compete or hold a coach accountable until we recruit equal or better talent to the rest and the best of the SEC......Largely because this seismic shift in recruiting will NEVER occur. At some point, when building a program, you have to have a coach who can develop, scheme, game plan, and take advantage of a match up or two to win some games they shouldn't. We do not have such a coach.
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So what you're saying is that we can get rid of any coach and it doesn't matter who we replace them with.
I don't think coaching was our only problem this year. We need some coaching improvement to happen, but I think we'll play much, much better next year as long as the "behind the scenes" stuff gets corrected.
He has elevated us above South Carolina and Missouri? Under that logic, I guess he has lowered us below Vandy and Western Kentucky. The truth is, South Carolina recruits much better than us. Not crazy about their new head coach, but my guess is that he will have them beating us again rather shortly. Its hard to say you are better than Missouri, who won the East the last two years. But, OK.
I don't think Stoops should be fired, we are invested now and have to see this through. If you fire him, you start the rebuilding clock all over. I would give Stoops two more years. But I was not for Stoops' hiring. And anyone who saw our coaching staff single handily lose the Vandy game from the sideline, keeping us from a bowl, should have major reservations about Stoops and his staff. The players need to improve next year- but even more so- this coaching staff has to mature quickly and start coaching like Division One coaches.
I know. It was rhetorical. Thus, he won't own it if he doesn't turn it around.
The sec east sux. We nearly lost to EKU. ADs really begin scrutinizing coaches after year three. 4-5 yrs is an extreme period of time unless there are extenuating circumstances which in brooks' case were sanctions. Stoops lost games in spite of his team giving their coach a chance. With a good coach the coach gives the team a chance. With Stoops it's been backwards and when the team gave him a shot he made the wrong calls or his coordinators made terrible play calls with out accountability. Stoops is like a freshman player...he can be developed. In order to do that though there must be accountability by our loser AD and stoops needs to spend the off season with his brother or a top coach he respects to get honest feedback. He must change or he will crash and burn.
Those who say Stoops isn't above criticism is totally correct, 100% correct. Stoops isn't above criticism.
As I've said before, giving criticism ain't the problem. I criticize Stoops and I actually want some coaches gone, but I ain't calling for Stoops to be fired after 3 years and starting with the worst talent of any power 5 conference school. Lets just think rationally here....
As I've said before, giving criticism ain't the problem. I criticize Stoops and I actually want some coaches gone, but I ain't calling for Stoops to be fired after 3 years and starting with the worst talent of any power 5 conference school. Lets just think rationally here....
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He's not going to be fired, so what does it matter if some on here want him to be?
I also think he needs at least 2 more seasons, but I can also see why some would question the direction of the program. His discipline and attention to detail have been horrible. We haven't improved in the fundamentals of the game from the start of the season to the end for 2 years straight.
UK Football has to play virtually mistake free and disciplined to ever compete in the SEC. We have yet to see any semblance of that thus far in the Mark Stoops era. I am hopeful we will start seeing it in 2016.
I also think he needs at least 2 more seasons, but I can also see why some would question the direction of the program. His discipline and attention to detail have been horrible. We haven't improved in the fundamentals of the game from the start of the season to the end for 2 years straight.
UK Football has to play virtually mistake free and disciplined to ever compete in the SEC. We have yet to see any semblance of that thus far in the Mark Stoops era. I am hopeful we will start seeing it in 2016.
Yep. If we'd just taken care of Vandy, a game UK should have won, then you're selling progress which is actually reflected in the W/L record. But it's not just that we lost the game, it's that we looked like the Bad News Bears doing it. It was a turning point for me. I have this sick feeling that 12 months from now we're going to be looking back at that as the beginning of the end. I think next year is do or die for Mark Stoops. What do you sell the fanbase on for 2017 if you can't even hit the low bar of Bowl eligibility in your 4th season?
we'll until everyone understands that UK Football is going to have to follow the Miss State model of doing things then we'll always have these conversations after 3 years of a new coach being here.
That Miss State way of doing things is having your talent and better contributors being in the senior and junior classes and playing with talented veterans. Mark Stoops first recruiting class at UK, 90% of them redshirted. So the large recruiting class that lead this team was sophomores and about 4 juniors that were from that same recruiting class.
We have to understand that UK isn't recruiting overly talented football players that can be major contributors after a short period of time at the school, like Tennessee is. And the numbers prove that our upperclassmen were pretty bad.
As someone pointed out, while at Michigan State Nick Saban showed plenty of signs of being unorganized, but it was a time when he was learning to be a head coach. That's what Stoops is doing, learning to be a head coach. News flash, for the history of UK's football program they've never been able to pull a head coach from another D1 team, unless he was already on his way out. So with that bit of fact we are sadly going to have to always put up with a coach who is learning to be a head coach and needing 4 to 5 years before he's on the hot seat, because the previous coach didn't do so well in recruiting. Only coaches that didn't have to deal with the later is Joker and whoever follows Stoops if he's fired after next year.
So if Stoops doesn't get this turned around next year, we'll have to deal with another coach who is learning to be a head coach. At some point us fans have to quit calling for the revolving door and actually let someone build.
That Miss State way of doing things is having your talent and better contributors being in the senior and junior classes and playing with talented veterans. Mark Stoops first recruiting class at UK, 90% of them redshirted. So the large recruiting class that lead this team was sophomores and about 4 juniors that were from that same recruiting class.
We have to understand that UK isn't recruiting overly talented football players that can be major contributors after a short period of time at the school, like Tennessee is. And the numbers prove that our upperclassmen were pretty bad.
As someone pointed out, while at Michigan State Nick Saban showed plenty of signs of being unorganized, but it was a time when he was learning to be a head coach. That's what Stoops is doing, learning to be a head coach. News flash, for the history of UK's football program they've never been able to pull a head coach from another D1 team, unless he was already on his way out. So with that bit of fact we are sadly going to have to always put up with a coach who is learning to be a head coach and needing 4 to 5 years before he's on the hot seat, because the previous coach didn't do so well in recruiting. Only coaches that didn't have to deal with the later is Joker and whoever follows Stoops if he's fired after next year.
So if Stoops doesn't get this turned around next year, we'll have to deal with another coach who is learning to be a head coach. At some point us fans have to quit calling for the revolving door and actually let someone build.