More Inside Skinny

[PSU4U]

I think it’s BS, but to be fair, the majority of people here were ready to jump off a cliff by the middle of November and wanted Kraft to sign anybody at that point. So from their perspective, Kraft did the right thing and tried to settle for someone (Sitake) instead of waiting for the right guy (Campbell).

Nobody wanted Kraft to sign just anybody, but everybody seemed to have a favorite. The only thing that matters now is that we do have a coach and by all analysis a damn good one.

Also, as it turns out maybe all the perceived dysfunction about the search may not have been all Kraft's fault. Turns out there were 2 BOT Flys in the ointment holding things up as much as they could. Both of those two should be expelled from the university and campus. Anyone who supports those two must have the common sense of a one cell organism.

 

[SkiSkiSki]

I agree with most of what you said and I loved Joepa. But staying too long cannot be minimized. As you stated, he was slipping and was being propped up by the good will inherent in the program that he had built and his assistants. Everyone knew he had to go but he stayed because he was too big to be told otherwise. IMO, it was selfish to stay. When the Sandusky scandal hit, he became the story and he was unable to handle it the way a younger coach may have. As a result, the program that he built and his legacy were irreparably damaged. Personally, I have great appreciation for everything he did, but his legacy includes the building of the program AND the epic collapse resulting from the Sandusky scandal. The end result is a legacy that the university cannot fully embrace with the pride it initially deserved.

Joe got shanked by a BOT trying to shield family members that were heavily involved in the 2nd Mile -- the organization that actually provided access to the kids Jerry brought on campus. They happily accepted University culpability to keep the blame from where it belonged and used Joe as the skapegoat to settle old personal scores. The Joe that did nothing contrary to the NCAA guidelines established after this fiasco for these types of situations. It wasn't the BOT's money, so they were glad to spend it. May you rot in hell, John Surma, Louis Freeh, and the rest of your corrupt, self serving ilk.

 

[Montcolion]

Joe got shanked by a BOT trying to shield family members that were heavily involved in the 2nd Mile -- the organization that actually provided access to the kids Jerry brought on campus. They happily accepted University culpability to keep the blame from where it belonged and used Joe as the skapegoat to settle old personal scores. The Joe that did nothing contrary to the NCAA guidelines established after this fiasco for these types of situations. It wasn't the BOT's money, so they were glad to spend it. May you rot in hell, John Surma, Louis Freeh, and the rest of your corrupt, self serving ilk.

Best analysis I’ve seen.

 

[Montcolion]

If you and others stop making Joe out to be better than he was there wouldn't be any fighting. Look at winning percentage and titles. 409 only speaks to longevity and reminds us he stayed over a decade longer than he should have.

Played for 4 real national titles in a seven year period winning 2 of them. 1v2 types before there was even a BCS. Would’ve won in 1994 too if BCS existed.

 

[KingLando]

Played for 4 real national titles in a seven year period winning 2 of them. 1v2 types before there was even a BCS. Would’ve won in 1994 too if BCS existed.

All fair but that doesn't alter his number of titles or winning percentage or that fact 409 is a longevity stat only.
We all agree he was an elite coach. He's just not the GOAT

 

[Montcolion]

Bottom line is whether they are won or awarded, Joe only got two in 46 years.

That’s 2 more than last 15 years?

Saban inherited a team with a great national tradition at Alabama. Joe inherited a team that was hardly known nationally.

That's not a dig at Saban. I'm just saying that Saban started near the top which is a totally different thing.

Overstating it a bit. PSU turns up as top 10 team in every decade since 1910’s or so. Won NC’s in the teens.

Is there any doubt the '94 team would have stomped the guts out of both Indiana and tOSU?

certainly that years Nebraska team

And Knute Rockne’s Fighting Irish teams would have beaten them all. If we’re going to go back and make up hypotheticals, let’s go way back.

no, they were overrated due to the catholic thing

I think it could be said that there was also a decline in talent within PA.

probably not. static population and trending older but still 5-6 largest state. Genetics don’t really change that much and still high hs football interest. I think there’s an over reliance on recruiting services who may not be too good and chasing star rankings they profess. Football needs its own version of Sabermetrics, as they seem to miss a lot of kids who end up being star walk ons and undrafted free agents. Worst scenario was 5 star Rob Bolden versus walk on McQue (sp) - broke PA passing records but no PSU offer. Southern Lehigh has a back that rushed for over 3,000 yards and 300 in state title game but no PSU offer (4A) so big school competition; something only 5 PA players have ever done. Whatever coach figures out that algorithm will shoot to the moon. Usually skill position issue.

 

[PSU87]

All fair but that doesn't alter his number of titles or winning percentage or that fact 409 is a longevity stat only.
We all agree he was an elite coach. He's just not the GOAT

Considering for that era, graduating kids and doing things the right way without cheating and paying players...he was absolutely the GOAT.

 

[SummitLion]

Yea, ok. When I met the women of my dreams I also made the mistake of proposing to another girl first. Glad it worked out for me too.

Not even close to the same thing unless you had to get married within 60 days.

 

[KingLando]

Considering for that era, graduating kids and doing things the right way without cheating and paying players...he was absolutely the GOAT.

Not at all....that's just your bias.

 

[taryn]

Not at all....that's just your bias.

folks,dont be suckered into this guy.He also thought that hitler had a nice mustache.

 

[PSUFTG]

Nobody wanted Kraft to sign just anybody, but everybody seemed to have a favorite. The only thing that matters now is that we do have a coach and by all analysis a damn good one.

Also, as it turns out maybe all the perceived dysfunction about the search may not have been all Kraft's fault. Turns out there were 2 BOT Flys in the ointment holding things up as much as they could. Both of those two should be expelled from the university and campus. Anyone who supports those two must have the common sense of a one cell organism.

You display even more ignorance of this, than you did with the 100 "inside dope coaching search" posts you made over the last month.
No surprise, as I expect you are getting your "inside dope" for both from the same source.

 

[barry j fenchak]

He did have the privilege of loosing to 2 greater coaches, one of which he never could beat. Hard to say which one of those is the GOAT, either Bryant or Saban.

Joe will NEVER be considered the GOAT outside of a small faction in Happy Valley.

 

[KingLando]

folks,dont be suckered into this guy.He also thought that hitler had a nice mustache.

Joe's winning percentage was just under 75%...do you want a list of the guys with a better winning percentage? Winning matters if you want to be the GOAT. Coaches that weren't elite IMO but wom more often include Woody Hayes, Schembechler and Stoops

He's not in the same league Bear, Meyer or Saban...just because you dislike them as people doesn't take away their accomplishments

Hell Obsorne and Switzer have better resumes ig we're being honest.

 

[donboy6499]

Joe's winning percentage was just under 75%...do you want a list of the guys with a better winning percentage? Winning matters if you want to be the GOAT. Coaches that weren't elite IMO but wom more often include Woody Hayes, Schembechler and Stoops

He's not in the same league Bear, Meyer or Saban...just because you dislike them as people doesn't take away their accomplishments

Hell Obsorne and Switzer have better resumes ig we're being honest.

Come to find out, the scholarships those guys were giving out were worth a heck of a lot more than the ones Penn State was giving out.

 

[KingLando]

Come to find out, the scholarships those guys were giving out were worth a heck of a lot more than the ones Penn State was giving out.

Which is irrelevant...winning is how coaches are ultimately judged. The GOAT can't have a winning percentage under 80% it doesn't even make sense.

He's an elite coach and one of the best humans that was a coach but not in the discussion for the GOAT outside a segment of our fan base.

 

[Chaz89]

Clown Barry,

409! Is the GOAT. Can’t spell ChEatS without SEC. PSU always had players with higher GPAs and more difficult majors than Bama. Football first in SEC.
I wish a composite GPA of football team was part factor of the playoff picture formula. BAMA would have been left out . Saban wouldn’t have won all those titles. PS - I like Nick Saban - he is a great coach.

 

[donboy6499]

Which is irrelevant...winning is how coaches are ultimately judged. The GOAT can't have a winning percentage under 80% it doesn't even make sense.

He's an elite coach and one of the best humans that was a coach but not in the discussion for the GOAT outside a segment of our fan base.

Bear's is 78%.

 

[barry j fenchak]

One thing he is clearly the GOAT is scandal, he definitely is the undisputed king.

 

[KingLando]

Bear's is 78%.

Fair...which is why he's 3rd for me but I also recognize his winning percentage is lower because of his time at Kentucky

 

[PSU4U]

You display even more ignorance of this, than you did with the 100 "inside dope coaching search" posts you made over the last month.
No surprise, as I expect you are getting your "inside dope" for both from the same source.

With Love

 

[PSU87]

Not at all....that's just your bias.

And winning percentage is yours obviously

 

[KingLando]

And winning percentage is yours obviously

Winning percentage is a stat doesn't a bias. Winning games matters...no?
Joe "did things the right way and everyone else cheated" is opinion and bias while ignoring all data. You're not even analyzing data...you're dismissing it.

 

[PSUFTG]

Clown Barry,

409! Is the GOAT. Can’t spell ChEatS without SEC. PSU always had players with higher GPAs and more difficult majors than Bama. Football first in SEC.
I wish a composite GPA of football team was part factor of the playoff picture formula. BAMA would have been left out . Saban wouldn’t have won all those titles. PS - I like Nick Saban - he is a great coach.

FWIW:
You do realize that the person you are responding to is a libelous imposter - whom has been allowed free rein on this board for years. Yes?

 

[PSUPetch]

I loved Paterno….i grew up on him because my father was a PSU grad and a huge JoePa fan. I just don’t think he was the greatest ever. He stayed too long and ultimately hurt the program because of it (and I’m not talking about the Sandusky mess). Those last 16 years made us less of a desirable location for top talent.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t PSU 8-1 at the time of JoePa’s dismissal?

 

[PSU87]

Winning percentage is a stat doesn't a bias. Winning games matters...no?
Joe "did things the right way and everyone else cheated" is opinion and bias while ignoring all data. You're not even analyzing data...you're dismissing it.

No stats are biased in and of themselves, but which stats you choose to prove your point are.
You've chosen winning percentage to determine your GOAT.

I remember once on one of the NFL pregame shows, someone asked Bradshaw what his QB rating was. He responded with "4 Super Bowl Rings".

So what's your measure....game day stats, winning percentage, number of championships?

I can pick my stats to make anyone look better or worse depending on my bias.

Winning percentage is just one stat, I'm not dismissing it, in just looking at it as part of an overall body of work, not the end all be all.

 

[KingLando]

N

No stats are biased in and of themselves, but which stats you choose to prove your point are.
You've chosen winning percentage to determine your GOAT.

I remember once on one of the NFL pregame shows, someone asked Bradshaw what his QB rating was. He responded with "4 Super Bowl Rings".

So what's your measure....game day stats, winning percentage, number of championships?

I can pick my stats to make anyone look better or worse depending on my bias.

Winning percentage is just one stat, I'm not dismissing it, in just looking at it as part of an overall body of work, not the end all be all.

I didn't only pick winning percentage. That's a part of it win which Paterno significantly trails. Let's look at titles. Let's look at conference titles? Let's look at the entire picture not the belief someone did something the right way.

It's not debatable...many coaches had more success on the field.

 

[Colt2169]

All fair but that doesn't alter his number of titles or winning percentage or that fact 409 is a longevity stat only.
We all agree he was an elite coach. He's just not the GOAT

He is the GOAT - he is the Greatest COLLEGE football coach of all time.

That doesn't mean he is the best football coach but we all know a lot of those other teams were not playing 'college' football for a long time (some probably never).

Make no mistake about it, I'm not saying he was perfect or anything like that - but when it comes to coach football AND lifting up a University, there was no one better.

And whether people like it or not, yes Joe (A "Football" Coach) did have a lot do with Penn State's rise as a University. Again, don't misread me, I'm not saying he built the University, but he did help it grow along the way.

So yes, he is the GOAT in my mind of we are talking the whole spectrum of what a college football coach should be.


And just to add to that - there were times during his tenure that I thought he was as good a "football" coach as anyone also.

 

[KingLando]

He is the GOAT - he is the Greatest COLLEGE football coach of all time.

That doesn't mean he is the best football coach but we all know a lot of those other teams were not playing 'college' football for a long time (some probably never).

Make no mistake about it, I'm not saying he was perfect or anything like that - but when it comes to coach football AND lifting up a University, there was no one better.

And whether people like it or not, yes Joe (A "Football" Coach) did have a lot do with Penn State's rise as a University. Again, don't misread me, I'm not saying he built the University, but he did help it grow along the way.

So yes, he is the GOAT in my mind of we are talking the whole spectrum of what a college football coach should be.


And just to add to that - there were times during his tenure that I thought he was as good a "football" coach as anyone also.

Meyer was clearly better as was Saban
Do you believe anyone outside of our fan base agrees? If so, that's bias.
What you believe "college football should be" isn't true for all...again, that's bias.
Joe was elite...he just can't be the GOAT. He doesn't have the resume.

 

[Psumatt85]

FWIW, talked to a letterman today and a close friend of Hack's. The letterman (not a distinguished one) said Campbell was the plan all along but he wouldn't agree or announce or sign until the season was over. The past 50 days have been backup plans, reach outs, etc..

Hack's friend sort of said the same thing but that during the search Kraft did begin to warm to guys (BYU), but MC was always the choice.

Doesn’t pass the smell test. If true, it would have been announced the Sunday before signing day. Kraft flew out Thursday. If it was set in stone, Kraft sure went out of his way to make himself look stupid and incompetent

 

[Colt2169]

Meyer was clearly better as was Saban
Do you believe anyone outside of our fan base agrees? If so, that's bias.
What you believe "college football should be" isn't true for all...again, that's bias.
Joe was elite...he just can't be the GOAT. He doesn't have the resume.

I'm not worried about what any 'fanbase' believes - it has nothing to do with Bias.
Do you think Ryan Day is a great coach?

My points still stand - Joe is the GOAT of COLLEGE Football.

Again, he wasn't perfect but O$U and the SEC were paying players and kids weren't 'playin' college' for decades.

I don't need to prove it to you or any other fanbase but for what its worth, when I do talk to folks of other teams they are in agreement with me (even those that are fans of the cheaters LOL)!

 

[KingLando]

I'm not worried about what any 'fanbase' believes - it has nothing to do with Bias.
Do you think Ryan Day is a great coach?

My points still stand - Joe is the GOAT of COLLEGE Football.

Again, he wasn't perfect but O$U and the SEC were paying players and kids weren't 'playin' college' for decades.

I don't need to prove it to you or any other fanbase but for what its worth, when I do talk to folks of other teams they are in agreement with me (even those that are fans of the cheaters LOL)!

Day had a lot to prove before he's in ant discussion like this
See...you immediately go to "others cheated" to justify Paterno doesn't have the resume.
I don't believe for a second anyone that's a Bama or Ohio State fan is telling you Joe's the greatest college football coach of all time.
ESPN ranked Paterno 7th in 2019 which is about right...probably in that 5-10 range if you're being unbiased.

 

[Chumboshifko1]

He did have the privilege of loosing to 2 greater coaches, one of which he never could beat. Hard to say which one of those is the GOAT, either Bryant or Saban.

Joe will NEVER be considered the GOAT outside of a small faction in Happy Valley.

"Loosing".....fool.

 

[Colt2169]

Day had a lot to prove before he's in ant discussion like this
See...you immediately go to "others cheated" to justify Paterno doesn't have the resume.
I don't believe for a second anyone that's a Bama or Ohio State fan is telling you Joe's the greatest college football coach of all time.
ESPN ranked Paterno 7th in 2019 which is about right...probably in that 5-10 range if you're being unbiased.

Doesn't have the 'resume' ?? I think you've lost all credibility - you should stop typing now!

 

[Chumboshifko1]

Meyer was clearly better as was Saban
Do you believe anyone outside of our fan base agrees? If so, that's bias.
What you believe "college football should be" isn't true for all...again, that's bias.
Joe was elite...he just can't be the GOAT. He doesn't have the resume.

You won't but please GET LOST!!

 

[Chaz89]

O$U - Cardale Jones QB

“Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL? We ain’t come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS.”

This became one of the most well-known (and joked-about) college football quotes ever.

Bama - would love to see how low that school has lowered the bar on entrance exams

Saban and Meyer had it too easy!

 

[KingLando]

Doesn't have the 'resume' ?? I think you've lost all credibility - you should stop typing now!

He doesn't. He has a winning percentage under 750, he has 2 official titles and only won the Big Ten 3 times during his tenure
Let's compare that to the others
You focus on longevity when he should have walked away after the 99 season.
How are you compare his resume to Saban? Just because you dislike Saban and think he's a bad guy?

 

[Chaz89]

Ahh….miss Barry Fup, guessing u are a community college grad live w mommy.

 

[KingLando]

O$U - Cardale Jones QB

“Why should we have to go to class if we came here to play FOOTBALL? We ain’t come to play SCHOOL, classes are POINTLESS.”

This became one of the most well-known (and joked-about) college football quotes ever.

Bama - would love to see how low that school has lowered the bar on entrance exams

Saban and Meyer had it too easy!

Jones said "We ain't come here to play school" which is true of 99% of players--including those on our roster. I don't understand why people pretend our players were going to school to save the world. The large majority came here to play football and class was just an obstacle. It's odd people don't see that. Jones was just stupid for saying it aloud.

Do our players have lower standards to get in than everyone else that attends Penn State?

 

[Connorpozlee]

He doesn't. He has a winning percentage under 750, he has 2 official titles and only won the Big Ten 3 times during his tenure
Let's compare that to the others
You focus on longevity when he should have walked away after the 99 season.
How are you compare his resume to Saban? Just because you dislike Saban and think he's a bad guy?

What does his resume look like up through the ‘99 season? More impressive than his final resume? Less impressive?

 

[KingLando]

What does his resume look like up through the ‘99 season? More impressive than his final resume? Less impressive?

Leaving would after 99 would have made the resume MORE impressive--he won just 63% of his games after 99 and under 60% of his Big Ten games. Only winning 1 Big Ten title in 7 years could have been dismissed as "it was toward the end of his career" but it wasn't
He hurt the program by staying--which some will never acknowledge