Mr. SEC bitchslaps us back to reality re:our recruiting class

[myusernamesucks]

First of all, I dont think it's terrible, but it is a little underwhelming, especially if we aspire to make the SEC Title game ever again

National Signing Day 2013 has come and gone and that can mean only one thing — the obligatory ranking of the signing classes. Those who are familiar with our method of grading the SEC’s commitment classes will surely recognize our final ranking system for the signing classes. As usual, we use the star rankings provided by Rivals.com. For each star the Rivals folks hand out, we award one point. All signees are given a two-star grade by the folks at Rivals and therefore our breakdown now consists only for 5-stars, 4-stars, 3-stars and 2-stars.
We then look at the numbers in three different ways. First, we look at the total talent being brought into a program. That’s the top chart. Just straight total points. Quantity.
Then, in the second chart, we rank the teams in terms of their average points-per-commitment. This gives you an idea of what type of athletes — generally — have signed with each of the SEC’s 14 schools. Quality.
In our third and final chart, we look at the number of 4- and 5-star recruits who have signed with each school. Recruiting rankings aren’t a science, but the more high-end type players a coach brings in, the greater his chance of finding some diamonds. High-caliber prospects.
Finally, the fourth chart is our overall MrSEC.com combination rankings for signing day. Now, we’ve gone ahead and counted 4-star running back Alex Collins toward Arkansas’ total because it’s expected he’ll sign with the Razorbacks on Thursday. Also, it’s still possible that 4-star defensive tackle Tevin Lawson — asked to grayshirt by LSU — could sign with Kentucky and boost the Wildcats’ score a bit further.
We have also used the final signee lists provided by the schools which don’t always mesh perfectly with the Rivals’ sites. If you’re wondering about those lists, you can find the SEC East’s signing classes here and the SEC West’s signing classes here.
And now, we begin handing grades with a look at quantity…

School	Signees	5-stars	4-stars	3-stars	2-stars	Total Points
Georgia	32	0	15	17	0	111
Texas A&M	32	0	15	16	1	110
Florida	28	2	15	11	0	103
LSU	27	2	15	10	0	100
Ole Miss	28	3	10	14	1	99
Alabama	25	4	13	8	0	96
Auburn	23	2	9	12	0	82
Vanderbilt	26	0	5	20	1	82
S. Carolina	21	0	8	13	0	71
Arkansas	23	0	4	14	5	68
Kentucky	22	0	3	17	2	67
Tennessee	21	0	5	15	1	67
Miss. State	20	1	2	15	2	62
Missouri	20	0	1	17	2	59

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</tbody>

Now, quality…

School	Signees	Avg. Pts/Signee
Alabama	25	3.84
LSU	27	3.70
Florida	28	3.67
Auburn	23	3.56
Ole Miss	28	3.53
Georgia	32	3.46
Texas A&M	32	3.43
S. Carolina	21	3.38
Tennessee	21	3.19
Vanderbilt	26	3.15
Miss. State	20	3.10
Kentucky	22	3.04
Arkansas	23	2.95
Missouri	20	2.95

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Now, the high-caliber score…

School	4- & 5-stars
Alabama	17
Florida	17
LSU	17
Georgia	15
Texas A&M	15
Ole Miss	13
Auburn	11
S. Carolina	8
Tennessee	5
Vanderbilt	5
Arkansas	4
Kentucky	3
Miss. State	3
Missouri	1

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</tbody>

MrSEC Rank	School	Quantity	Quality	High-Caliber	Total
1t	Florida	3	3	1	7
1t	LSU	4	2	1	7
3	Alabama	6	1	1	8
4	Georgia	1	6	4	11
5	Texas A&M	2	7	4	13
6	Ole Miss	5	5	6	16
7	Auburn	7	4	7	18
8	S. Carolina	9	8	8	25
9	Vanderbilt	7	10	9	26
10	Tennessee	11	9	9	29
11t	Arkansas	10	14	11	35
11t	Kentucky	11	12	12	35
13	Miss. State	13	11	12	36
14	Missouri	14	14	14	42

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[Tomas Smid]

So you're saying it could have been worse. . . . .

 

[HammerOfTheDogs]

I find it funny after all the slob-knobbing about "the university of ole miss' legendary recruiting class", they're only ranked 5th or 6th in all the categories.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

... if we aspire to make the SEC Title game ever again...

Does anyone have access to enough recruiting history to know how our early 90's recruiting classes were ranked? Specifically the ones that mattered most with regards to our SECCG year. I'm of the opinion that sometimes things just all come together and they can't be tied directly back to recruiting rankings. In MSU's case, maybe it would actually take looking at the recruiting classes of other schools in the West and comparing them to ours and then seeing if there was actually a correlation that would explain our up year (or arguably their down year). Seems like a whole lot of variables and luck have to go your way to get the Atlanta and that just doesn't happen very often...

 

[missouridawg]

Anyone using Rivals rankings to judge an MSU class has lost their mind. If he took a composite score (using Rivals, 247, and Scout) he'd have a much better indication of where we fall (and that would be about 7, 8, or 9).

Our class is better than Mizzou, UK, Arkansas, Tennessee, and Vandy.

 

[Coach34]

First of all, I dont think it's terrible, but it is a little underwhelming, especially if we aspire to make the SEC Title game ever again

As long as the SEC West has 2 or 3 teams in the top 10 every season- we're not going to make the SEC title game. Neither is Ole Miss or UPig.

People better learn to enjoy being a perenniel bowl team

 

[MzTerry]

Rivals is as irrelevant as ESPN. Use 247 or Scout. Cord, Shumpert, Ross, Thomas all 4 stars. Our avg star rating (your quality metric) puts at 8th on Scout. Avg star rating is what should ALWAYS be used to judge a class unless you're in need of numbers and go JUCO.

Also, we likely sign another 4 star next week. I'm not saying this is some groundbreaking class, but it is a good and no reason to be disappointed. Better than USC's Arkansas' and Tennessee's Vandy's Missouri's Kentucky's from any objective person & I personally like it better than Auburn's (flame away for that one if you want to, I love a few things about their class, but I honestly would not even think about trading our class for theirs).

Mississippi's class is obviously a very good class. O Line is so important and they did well there. Their running back's fit Freeze's system (not counting Wilkins, he'll never do anything again), but I would rather have Shumphert than Moore & Dodson. I would not trade Sandberg and Williams for Kincaide and Buchanan. We didn't want Kincaide and although we went very hard after Buchanan I think Cord is better for us.

I would not trade Treadwell for Ross. Treadwell will be a great player for them if he gets into school, but we need an explosive playmaker and Ross fits that role while Treadwell is more of a big strong receiver (he would be better than most, if not all that we have, but we have some good ones that are similar).

There are several other things that I like about our class - obviously Jones, but I think the rest is pretty much a wash. They cleaned up on the OL and did well on DL. They also did well at RB for their system. Just some of my thoughts.

Edited to say 8th on Scout, not 7th.

 

[BigMotherTucker]

As long as the SEC West has 2 or 3 teams in the top 10 every season- we're not going to make the SEC title game. Neither is Ole Miss or UPig.

People better learn to enjoy being a perenniel bowl team

Bingo!!

 

[OurPrideAndJoySnots]

So what you're telling me is that he came up with all these rankings based on Rivals.com stars... Seems very thorough. We're obviously fu(ked. Great read!

ETA:************************

 

[cofreb]

Just an fyi

247 does a composite ranking. Link below:

http://247sports.com/Season/2013-Football/CompositeTeamRankings?Conference=SEC

 

[engie]

Rivals is a joke that will ALWAYS undervalue MS kids.

Shump is a 3* -- as is Justin Cox -- meanwhile Deon Mix is a 4*? Seriously?

Need to look at 24/7 composite as the real metric.

School	Signees	5*	4*	3*	2*	total points
aTm	32	1	14	17	0	112
Georgia	32	0	14	18	0	110
LSU	28	0	20	8	0	104
Alabama	26	6	12	8	0	102
Florida	27	2	13	12	0	98
Ole Miss	27	4	7	16	0	96
Vandy	27	0	4	22	1	84
Auburn	23	2	7	14	0	80
Arky	23	0	4	17	2	71
MSU	22	1	4	16	1	71
Kentucky	22	0	3	18	1	68
USCe	21	0	4	17	0	67
Tenn	21	0	4	17	0	67
Missouri	20	0	2	17	1	61

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</tbody>

School	avg points
Alabama	3.92
LSU	3.71
Florida	3.63
Ole Miss	3.56
aTm	3.5
Auburn	3.48
Georgia	3.44
MSU	3.23
USCe	3.19
Tenn	3.19
Vandy	3.11
Kentucky	3.09
Arky	3.09
Missouri	3.05

<tbody>
</tbody>

School	4* and 5*
LSU	20
Alabama	18
Florida	15
aTm	15
Georgia	14
Ole Miss	11
Auburn	9
MSU	5
USCe	4
Tenn	4
Vandy	4
Arky	4
Kentucky	3
Missouri	2

<tbody>
</tbody>

School	Quantity	Quality	HighCal	Total
LSU	3	2	1	6
Alabama	4	1	2	7
aTm	1	5	3	9
Florida	5	3	3	11
Georgia	2	7	5	14
Ole Miss	6	4	6	16
Auburn	8	6	7	21
MSU	9	8	8	25
Vandy	7	11	9	27
USCe	12	9	9	30
Tenn	12	9	9	30
Arky	9	13	9	31
Kentucky	11	12	13	36
Missouri	14	14	14	42

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</tbody>

 

[KurtRambis4]

The fact

that people put so much emphasis on the difference between a 5* and a 3* is hilarious.

Those people ranking these kids have no clue in the world how they are going to turn out.
I can almost gurantee you, physically, there's not much difference (if any) between those two categories.

What these "experts" cannot measure is mental strength, and that is more important than any physical trait.
A guy that is a complete headcase but can run a 4.30 40 has probably got less of a chance of making it than someone who has his head on straight, yet runs a 4.5. It really blows me away that people put so much emphasis in these "star" rankings.

I would be saying this if we got the #1 ranked class in the nation, too, so don't say I'm being a homer.

 

[JackShephard]

Not only this, but the ranking system is ****** anyway. Had we landed Mix and Mckenzie our rankings would've been better on a statistically significant level. Would having those two improve our standing on the field? Highly doubtful. Do those two guys change our class enough to actually matter? No. The other 20 gain no value by adding those two, but the rankings would indicate otherwise. We got a good class we can work with. We need better O linemen and for Cord to play to be relevant in the SEC in the next few years.

 

[Digging dog]

Somebody needs to copy this thread to see what all these stars look like after a few years.
Re: J. Banks has become a pretty decorated 2* (I think that is what he was ranked).
Furthermore if Nkimdechee (however the hell you spell his name) gets moved to a DT, I think Q. Evans will be better. (As a DT)

 

[ckDOG]

As I've said before, "A" by our standards. "D" by SEC standards.

I used 247 and assume the ratings are current as of today. We are 10/14 by total pts and 11/14 by average. I suppose we could move up a spot with the signing of the JUCO DT.

For those that care, Ole Miss is 3/14 for total pts and 5/14 for average. They get a "A+++" by their standards and "B+" by SEC standards, if you force everyone a grade.

ETA: this is just being purely objective. Of course, you really have to factor in whether or not you recruited to your needs, but the scoring systems don't build that in. Good luck quantifying that. Also, "check out how they do in 2 years" isn't relevant today.

 

[engie]

If we add Toby Johnson(and figure Michael Carr as a member of the class -- which I feel like we should, since it's a "new player" for us not much different than Brassell is for OM or them counting Powe in multiple classes), we move up within 1 pt of Auburn in total points, our avg points to 3.29, 4 and 5* to 7, and we still have 24 total points and come in at the same spot overall in this style of rankings...

However, that definitely would put us in the top 20 on the 24/7 composite -- which would almost certainly jump us ahead of Arky and South Carolina...and leave us at #7 overall in the SEC. I realize that all of this is minimal in effect -- but still interesting to look at and somewhat "perception changing" nonetheless.

Dak/Cord will inherit an overall receiver situation like we've NEVER seen at MSU...
6' + category:
4* Carr
4* Morrow
All-American Malcolm Johson
4* Robert Johnson
4* Fred Ross
BJ Hammond
Shelby Christy
De'Runnya
Fred Brown
Chappelle

Slot receivers:
Holloway
Lewis
Evans
4* Gray

 

[maroonmania]

As long as the SEC West has 2 or 3 teams in the top 10 every season- we're not going to make the SEC title game. Neither is Ole Miss or UPig.

People better learn to enjoy being a perenniel bowl team

True, our current recruiting levels (Top 30 type class each year) will allow us to be a competitive program that can make minor bowl games with the occassional jump to a NYD bowl when things fall our way or the schedule happens to be easier than normal (like this year) but its not nearly good enough to have a "championship program" as Mullen likes to spout. But hey, that's a heck of lot better than where our program has been a lot of the time. And I will admit I've definitely ratcheted back what I think we can accomplish with Mullen here because while I think Mullen is a good HC with developing players and pretty good as an X and O guy he's just not a natural recruiter. And for MSU to get to a top level (given the modern day difficulties of playing in the SEC) you need what Mullen can do developing players and being an X and O guy PLUS being a very good recruiter. He's just not and he doesn't try to employ a ton of guys that are great recruiters. Thank goodness for Brewster but there is just not enough of him to go around in the dog eat dog SEC recruiting world we face. And I realize this is NOT the SEC of the 90s, its much more difficult to reach a championship level in the SEC now than it was then. Goodness knows I pray that Saban will get bored at AL and either retire or look for something more challenging though I know that's not likely to happen anytime soon.

 

[DancingRabbit]

I'm confused about how the total points are figured. If aTm and LSU have higher AVG scores, and more signees, how are their total points scored lower than Ole Miss'? Just asking - I don't understand.

 

[godlluB]

Furthermore, since you can't sign more than, I think, 25 players, numbers above that are bogus anyway. Let's wait and rank the recruiting classes this fall when we see how many and which ones are actually enrolled.

 

[Hanmudog]

As bad as I hate to say it, we are not going back to Atlanta any time soon as long as Bama and LSU keep fielding teams like they have because right now winning the West is tantamount to winning the BCS title. Throw in the occasional Arkansas, TAMU, and Auburn BCS type teams and it gets even harder.

Our trip to the SECCG had as much to do with other teams being down as it did us having a good team.

Keep churning out 8-9 win seasons at MSU and I will be a happy camper.

 

[HueFreeze]

it also must be discussed about where these recruits came from
instate
2013 - 7
2012 - 15
2011 - 17
2010 - 17

I am sure this points to lots of different variables
the state could have been down this year
we could be looking outside the state more, as our brand is growing
other instate schools made a bigger effort to recruit instate

I am sure it is all 3 and many more, but we didn't really wrap up the state like the last couple of years.
if we are going out of state more, we are going to lose more and more battles with schools from those state, at first

 

[johnson86-1]

I think stars are important for minimizing your misses. If you're recruiting a headcase, yes, stars probably don't matter. But how many four and five stars turn out to be busts for athletic reasons as opposed to three stars? How bad could CJ Johnson really have been at the college level? He didn't seem to have a particularly good head on his shoulders, arguably did not watch his weight the way he should (or was the weight he gained good weight?), and he ends up being a good defensive end rather than a great linebacker. When Dontae Walker was at State, he was still a pretty solid player long after his laziness and attitude would have derailed most players. As bad as evaluators are, physical measurables mean a lot and when you combine that with being able to modify your ratings to basically piggyback off the talent evaluation of real coaches, increasing your average recruiting ratings is gong to raise the floor of your program.

 

[maroonmania]

As bad as I hate to say it, we are not going back to Atlanta any time soon as long as Bama and LSU keep fielding teams like they have because right now winning the West is tantamount to winning the BCS title. Throw in the occasional Arkansas, TAMU, and Auburn BCS type teams and it gets even harder.

Our trip to the SECCG had as much to do with other teams being down as it did us having a good team.

Keep churning out 8-9 win seasons at MSU and I will be a happy camper.

Well you are on the upper end of what we can churn out in the SEC right now with our current talent base. IF we win 8 games next year it will be a hell of a coaching job by Mullen and his staff. Will say though that this year and last year's recruiting classes were at least both better than the 2 before that so eventually hopefully we can get where 8-9 win seasons are pretty doable even against a challenging schedule.

 

[Coach34]

I'm not sure why people blame Mullen so much on recruiting:

1. He coaches at the hardest place to recruit to in the SEC
2. The frats and sorostitute houses do nothing to help with recruiting weekends
3. Starkville night life really isnt too bad- but we do nothing around town to embrace recruiting weekends. Zero organization.

So as usual, in what is the Miss State way, we want to blame Mullen for not being able to recruit like other teams in the SEC- but few do their part to help with recruiting as compared to the rest of the SEC.

Alot of recruits are going to get paid no matter where they go to school- the choice- alot of times- comes down to where they had the most fun and feel like they fit in.

Is Starkville and the student body doing their part to help Mullen make sure these recruits see Miss State as good place for them to enjoy college and fit in?

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

that people put so much emphasis on the difference between a 5* and a 3* is hilarious.

Those people ranking these kids have no clue in the world how they are going to turn out.
I can almost gurantee you, physically, there's not much difference (if any) between those two categories.

What these "experts" cannot measure is mental strength, and that is more important than any physical trait.
A guy that is a complete headcase but can run a 4.30 40 has probably got less of a chance of making it than someone who has his head on straight, yet runs a 4.5. It really blows me away that people put so much emphasis in these "star" rankings.

I would be saying this if we got the #1 ranked class in the nation, too, so don't say I'm being a homer.

while 1 5* and a bunch of 3* likely won't make your program significantly better, a bunch of 4* and 5* will absolutely minimize the risk of failure in the class and likely means the class will be pretty successful (assuming the classes before and after them are also at least decent).

some of yall get caught up looking at the trees and miss the forest. we can all name some 2* or 3* that became a superstar. and we can all name a 5* all world talent that busted. but when you look at the sheer data, the odds are much higher a 5* becomes at least a quality caliber player than a 4*. a 4* has better odds than a 3*. so * rankings aren't prohibitive in once becoming a stud, but to act like they are irrelevant to projecting the future is ludicrous.

 

[dawgs.sixpack]

Rivals is as irrelevant as ESPN. Use 247 or Scout.

the only fanbase that has tried to rely on scout in the last 5 or 6 years is msu's. scout is universally considered awful, and probably the 4th best of the 4 major recruiting services.

the general concensus among CFB fans from all programs is 247 >>>>>>>>>>>> rivals >> espn >> scout.

 

[InaccuratePredictionsDawg]

Looks like to me they *****-slapped basic math...

....I don't get the statistical balance of comparing a class of 32 signees to a class of 20 signees. Regardless of stars, there is so much bad math inherent to that formula, there is no way it can be taken seriously.

 

[TheOMlawdog]

Was Malcolm Johnson an All American? Or are you projecting that...

I thought he was an under radar guy that had a solid freshman year and an injury plagued sophomore year.

I mean the guy is a solid TE when healthy, but in two seasons (19 games) he has 21 catches for 376 yards.

Though I don't agree with C34 on pretty much anything, he is completely right with the Dak/Russell debate. Mullen should roll with Dak and Perkins with Russell coming off the bench to give Dak a break. Some of the hits that Russell took last year were just brutal, and many of them came when running the option.

MSU's OL should be solid when trying to run the ball, but they simply aren't built to protect a QB that holds on to the ball because his WR's aren't talented enough to get open. Losing Smith and Bumphis won't make their jobs any easier.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Cut the crap coach. Mullen needs to win a couple of big games that he wasn`t favored to win(especially at home). Blaming the frats and soros is weak ********. And before we go any farther...it ain`t 17ing impossible. Most good coaches would have already pulled it off.

 

[engie]

I thought he was an under radar guy that had a solid freshman year and an injury plagued sophomore year.

I mean the guy is a solid TE when healthy, but in two seasons (19 games) he has 21 catches for 376 yards.

Though I don't agree with C34 on pretty much anything, he is completely right with the Dak/Russell debate. Mullen should roll with Dak and Perkins with Russell coming off the bench to give Dak a break. Some of the hits that Russell took last year were just brutal, and many of them came when running the option.

MSU's OL should be solid when trying to run the ball, but they simply aren't built to protect a QB that holds on to the ball because his WR's aren't talented enough to get open. Losing Smith and Bumphis won't make their jobs any easier.

He was a virtually unanimous freshman All-SEC and freshman All-American in at least 1 or 2 publications at the TE position. He missed half of this season with a torn pec and had a hard time figuring into gameplans after that. Going forward(assuming health), he's one of the best pass-catching TEs in the country -- and that will be overly apparent next year when we run out a few guys that should be able to get open deep.

 

[sleepy dawg]

sorostitute

I'm not sure about others, but this would probably get me as a recruit.

We need to ramp up our sorostitute program.

 

[57stratdawg]

I don't expect Carr to contriute at all next year. Anything he adds is just a bonus.

 

[engie]

Cut the crap coach. Mullen needs to win a couple of big games that he wasn`t favored to win(especially at home). Blaming the frats and soros is weak ********. And before we go any farther...it ain`t 17ing impossible. Most good coaches would have already pulled it off.

I thought this was a recruiting thread?

Mullen has never lost to a less talented team on paper, other than arguably Northwestern and Houston. He's beaten SEVERAL teams that on paper had far, far more talent than us(09 OM, 10 Fla, 10 UGA, 10 Michigan, 10 OM, 12 Ark, 12 Aub, 12 Tenn). You could even argue for 11 Ole Miss. People forget that of the 5 classes that will be on campus for them, they have 3 top 20 classes(and this year's monster class). Mullen has accomplished exactly what his recruiting has allowed him to accomplish -- on approximately the most consistent basis of anyone in the country. If we are going to take another step forward, it's going to have to be recruiting that allows us to do it. Can you stay focused on that for 5 minutes, or are you going to go off on another blind tangent of "Mullenz has got to upset some teamzzz!1!!1" showing that you don't actually understand what is/has gone on with our recruiting.

Obviously by your standards, we have NEVER had a good coach. Please list Jackie's big wins -- I'll hit you with twice as many humiliating defeats.

 

[engie]

I don't expect Carr to contriute at all next year. Anything he adds is just a bonus.

Based on what?

 

[CadaverDawg]

I thought this was a recruiting thread?

Mullen has never lost to a less talented team on paper, other than arguably Northwestern and Houston. He's beaten SEVERAL teams that on paper had far, far more talent than us(09 OM, 10 Fla, 10 UGA, 10 Michigan, 10 OM, 12 Ark, 12 Aub, 12 Tenn). He's accomplished exactly what his recruiting has allowed him to accomplish -- on approximately the most consistent basis of anyone in the country. If we are going to take another step forward, it's going to have to be recruiting that allows us to do it. Can you stay focused on that for 5 minutes, or are you going to go off on another blind tangent of "Mullenz has got to upset some teamzzz!1!!1" showing that you don't actually understand what is/has gone on with recruiting.

Obviously by your standards, we have NEVER had a good coach. Please list Jackie's big wins -- I'll hit you with twice as many humiliating defeats.

Boom

 

[skb124]

I really believe in the next few years Texas A&M will surpass LSU as second best in the SEC. Bigger recruiting state and Texas kids don't have to go out of state to play in the SEC anymore. It really is cruel what we have to go through.

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Mullen should roll with Dak and Perkins with Russell coming off the bench to give Dak a break.

Of course you want us to do something this stupid. You're a rival fan.

I will agree that Malcolm Johnson's stats are pedestrian so far. But all you have to is watch the guy play to realize he's going to be one of the best pass catching TEs in the SEC over the next 2 years.

 

[maroonmania]

I'm not sure why people blame Mullen so much on recruiting:

1. He coaches at the hardest place to recruit to in the SEC
2. The frats and sorostitute houses do nothing to help with recruiting weekends
3. Starkville night life really isnt too bad- but we do nothing around town to embrace recruiting weekends. Zero organization.

So as usual, in what is the Miss State way, we want to blame Mullen for not being able to recruit like other teams in the SEC- but few do their part to help with recruiting as compared to the rest of the SEC.

Alot of recruits are going to get paid no matter where they go to school- the choice- alot of times- comes down to where they had the most fun and feel like they fit in.

Is Starkville and the student body doing their part to help Mullen make sure these recruits see Miss State as good place for them to enjoy college and fit in?

Granted MSU doesn't just automatically recruit itself like and AL or LSU but the MSU student life and Starkville as a whole plus the new facilities give Mullen a HUGE advantage in recruiting to ANY former MSU head coach. Yes, the party life could improve but I think there is plenty enough partying to pacify most college football players however I do agree that OV recruiting weekends could be much better orchestrated with the Greeks and the entire university.

But Let's face it, Mullen's approach to recruiting is telling a guy that he will be given nothing and will have to work his tail off to have a chance to see the field and he is a yankee with not the greatest of southern hospitality skills. It is what it is and I'm certainly OK with telling a guy what he's facing when he comes to the program but there is no downside to shmoozing and sugarcoating a little bit when you recruit. You catch more flies with honey than Raid. Just needs to be a better balance and I understand that Mullen's strength is NOT really recruiting. Doesn't mean he's not decent at it its just not his strength. And then to add to that I do believe Mullen is a very ethical person and really doesn't want players being "bought". I'm sure its not just Bracky. If Scott and Dan weren't so against it and Bracky was the main problem then they would force a change. So when you combine a rather harsh personality with a refusal to cut corners you are not likely to pull in a potload of 5 star recruits.

 

[engie]

I really believe in the next few years Texas A&M will surpass LSU as second best in the SEC. Bigger recruiting state and Texas kids don't have to go out of state to play in the SEC anymore.

Perhaps -- but you do realize that Texas and Louisiana play an allstar game every year(similar to Alabama and Ms) -- and that game has been dominated by La the past couple years. There may be "more" talent in Texas, but it is not "better" talent. As long as La produces 15 studs/yr to stock LSU's roster, they will remain elite...

 

[Railin Jemmye]

Mullen has never lost to a less talented team on paper, other than arguably Northwestern and Houston.

Forget about that game right after Thanksgiving last fall?

He's beaten SEVERAL teams that on paper had far, far more talent than us(09 OM, 10 Fla, 10 UGA, 10 Michigan, 10 OM, 12 Ark, 12 Aub, 12 Tenn). You could even argue for 11 Ole Miss.

First part might be your problem. My proof? You said 2011 Ole Miss had more talent than us. You really just said that.