MSU quarterbacks and the fans

[Todd4State]

I've seen a couple of people mention that we will boo Tyler out of the stadium after he has a multiple pick game. I certainly hope that's not the case- and I certainly hope that Tyler doesn't have any multiple pick games.

I've also seen people ask why we haven't been able to get a good QB at MSU. I don't think it's because the fans boo QB's.

Mississippi doesn't produce a ton of QB's. Plus, QB's are hard to evaluate- the last really good QB year in the state was Tyler's senior year, and the other two big name QB's are busts- Garrett and Moore. One is out of football after God sent him wondering through the wilderness of the SEC. The other is at Jackson State. We definitely came out good on that end.

However, I think some of the problem in the past has been the coaching. Other than Dan Marino, who no one could screw up, Jackie very rarely had good QB play. Croom sucked and brought in midgets like a flea circus. Dan, on the other hand is a very good QB coach and has made people like Chris Relf serviceable and has done a very good job with Tyler and our other QB's. I bet Garrett and Moore would have done well under him as well had they come to MSU. I look forward to what he can do with Cord Sandberg and Dak.

Then there is schematic issues. Jackie usually wanted a QB that could either "manage" the team kind of like Wyatt or an athlete playing QB- see Derrick Taite and Wayne Madkin. He wanted to be a power running team- our offense was centered around our backs. Croom sucked. Neither is really conducive to producing a good QB or good QB play. Dan, again- wants to be balanced. He has an offense that is built around the QB. You want to get good QB's? You better have an offense where they can show what they can do, or they'll go somewhere else where they can.

In light of this, our fans are impatient. Way too impatient. Thing is, even guys like Unitas and Montana have been benched before. But it's really silly to start grumbling after a couple of incompletions. I think some of it is because we see other teams in the SEC with "good" QB play- and I say "good" because the truth is fans of other schools are likely just as unsatisfied a lot of times as we are. I think some of it is curiousity- we want to see what the new freshman can do. Some of it is maybe wanting to see the local boy if that's applicable- like the Columbus people with Tyson and the Meridian people with Tyler. And I think some of it is because fans don't understand how hard it is to play QB in the SEC relative to high school.

We need to get to the point where we are starting QB's no younger than RS So.- and ideally RS Jr. and allow QB's to develop. Throwing people out there as true freshmen in some cases, making them switch back and forth between positions like we did with Omarr Conner, and etc. That's not good. People forget that Tebow was a role player as true freshman, Matthew Stafford struggled badly as a true freshman, Eli Manning RS and then was a back-up as a freshman- those guys were all first round picks and one won a Heisman and is considered to be maybe the best college QB ever.

I'm not a huge fan of the two QB system. But, the one thing I do like if there is anything about it- it's that everybodies "boy" gets to play- and I don't have to hear people call for their "boy" in the stands after a couple of incompletions.

 

[Todd4State]

I've seen a couple of people mention that we will boo Tyler out of the stadium after he has a multiple pick game. I certainly hope that's not the case- and I certainly hope that Tyler doesn't have any multiple pick games.

I've also seen people ask why we haven't been able to get a good QB at MSU. I don't think it's because the fans boo QB's.

Mississippi doesn't produce a ton of QB's. Plus, QB's are hard to evaluate- the last really good QB year in the state was Tyler's senior year, and the other two big name QB's are busts- Garrett and Moore. One is out of football after God sent him wondering through the wilderness of the SEC. The other is at Jackson State. We definitely came out good on that end.

However, I think some of the problem in the past has been the coaching. Other than Dan Marino, who no one could screw up, Jackie very rarely had good QB play. Croom sucked and brought in midgets like a flea circus. Dan, on the other hand is a very good QB coach and has made people like Chris Relf serviceable and has done a very good job with Tyler and our other QB's. I bet Garrett and Moore would have done well under him as well had they come to MSU. I look forward to what he can do with Cord Sandberg and Dak.

Then there is schematic issues. Jackie usually wanted a QB that could either "manage" the team kind of like Wyatt or an athlete playing QB- see Derrick Taite and Wayne Madkin. He wanted to be a power running team- our offense was centered around our backs. Croom sucked. Neither is really conducive to producing a good QB or good QB play. Dan, again- wants to be balanced. He has an offense that is built around the QB. You want to get good QB's? You better have an offense where they can show what they can do, or they'll go somewhere else where they can.

In light of this, our fans are impatient. Way too impatient. Thing is, even guys like Unitas and Montana have been benched before. But it's really silly to start grumbling after a couple of incompletions. I think some of it is because we see other teams in the SEC with "good" QB play- and I say "good" because the truth is fans of other schools are likely just as unsatisfied a lot of times as we are. I think some of it is curiousity- we want to see what the new freshman can do. Some of it is maybe wanting to see the local boy if that's applicable- like the Columbus people with Tyson and the Meridian people with Tyler. And I think some of it is because fans don't understand how hard it is to play QB in the SEC relative to high school.

We need to get to the point where we are starting QB's no younger than RS So.- and ideally RS Jr. and allow QB's to develop. Throwing people out there as true freshmen in some cases, making them switch back and forth between positions like we did with Omarr Conner, and etc. That's not good. People forget that Tebow was a role player as true freshman, Matthew Stafford struggled badly as a true freshman, Eli Manning RS and then was a back-up as a freshman- those guys were all first round picks and one won a Heisman and is considered to be maybe the best college QB ever.

I'm not a huge fan of the two QB system. But, the one thing I do like if there is anything about it- it's that everybodies "boy" gets to play- and I don't have to hear people call for their "boy" in the stands after a couple of incompletions.

 

[Spanky.sixpack]

you don't know your MSU history if you don't expect it to happen.<div>
</div><div>One thing I'll completely agree with you on.....MSU has had entirely too many QBs who got hyped up well before they were due, and thus fell victim to the REAL MSU curse - unrealistic expectations. We are a losing program, make peace with that. As soon as we sniff success, we expect it all, mainly because our direct competition is usually receiving the accolades. So that equals impatience.</div><div>
</div><div>You see it on this board, nobody wants to build anything, a few select nimrod posters expect us to win 10 games this year. They might be on crack. </div><div>
</div><div>Back to the QBs, yes, it has mainly been coaching and availability of talent. Who are the solid QBs from MS in the past 10 years....Jason Campbell, Eli Manning, Jevan Snead, Austin Davis. Maybe others, I can't think of them. Most of them were allowed at least 3 years to develop and mature. That's the ticket....development.</div>

 

[Rebels7]

Who are the solid QBs from MS in the past 10 years....Jason Campbell, Eli Manning, Jevan Snead, Austin Davis. Maybe others, I can't think of them.

Eli Manning - New Orleans, LA

Jevan Snead - Stephenville, TX

 

[was21]

nm

 

[biguglyjoe]

******

 

[gravedigger]

I mean when it comes to qb play or the way we play either side of the ball and why.

</p>

 

[engie]

you don't know your MSU history if you don't expect it to happen. Who are the solid QBs from MS in the past 10 years....Jason Campbell, Eli Manning, Jevan Snead, Austin Davis. Maybe others, I can't think of them.

Please stop advising us on football. You've proven beyond a shadow of a doubt(not that anyone doubted it anyway) that you have no idea what you are talking about.

When has MSU had unrealistic expectations? When have we been a losing program under Mullen? Most of us are calling for 8-4. That is not unrealistic. It's an unrealistically loser mentality to expect less than Vegas expects. Vegas has our over/under @ 7.5. Calling for 6 or less is just as ridiculous as calling for 10.

You should cheer for another team. No way we can ever be good. Since we're "por ol Misipi Tate" and all.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

you don't know your MSU history if you don't expect it to happen.<div>
</div><div>We are a losing program, make peace with that.</div>

You had me till this sentence.

We should just give up because we are always losers and never hope for anything else?

Glad you're not coaching the players.

 

[RocketCityDawg]

> LIKE <

 

[Spanky.sixpack]

didn't mean for it to sound like I was only talking about MS high school born and bred. And for that matter, MSU and USM can recruit out of state as well. We're talking about MSU QBs, no matter where they come from.

 

[Spanky.sixpack]

Our fans are fickle. It's just a fact. Personally, I'm getting tired of every QB who graduates from MSU having to defend themselves from our idiot fans. It's a wonder any of them even want to be associated with MSU.<div>
</div><div>List of QBs I've heard booed with my own ears:</div><div>
</div><div>Todd Jordan: Amidst all the 'black players won't play for the white QB' rumors and the idiots clamoring for a freshman Derrick Taite. </div><div>
</div><div>Derrick Taite: Damn, that guy didn't deserve what he got. He did some dumb ****, and he fought with Eric Moulds over the same white girls, but he was what he was, an average QB. He's the poster boy for the 'backup QB is always better' crowd. Put in because we, eh em, booed the hell out of Todd Jordan.</div><div>
</div><div>Wayne Madkin: Only our winningest QB ever. Of course, he got a little lazy himself in 2001 too, partly due to Sherrill's lackadaisical oversight his final few years. </div><div>
</div><div>Kevin Fant: Another who didn't deserve what he got. Just an all around bad situation.</div><div>
</div><div>Omarr Conner: Anyone could see that Croom was his problem, yet people were still clamoring for the backup, who was.....</div><div>
</div><div>Michael Henig: Shouldn't have been out there.</div><div>
</div><div>Finally, Chris Relf: This was another damn shame. But I heard it myself. He even sent out a message or something after the season talking about, "No matter what you think of me, I gave it my all......". Why in the holy hell should our QB have to make such a statement? We have a lot of loud mouth pansy fans. </div><div>
</div>

 

[engie]

Please cease all association with us and cheer for another team. It's amazing that you think WE are the only fans that boo piss poor performance. I guess you missed the part where Jevan Snead got knocked the F out when he got back to Oxford the Friday in 2009 after losing to USCe(and killing the national title pipe dream).

We NEVER booed Chris Relf. NEVER. Dan Mullen's playcalling is what garnered the boos from fans @ the end of the La Tech game. Primarily by NOT going for the win in regulation and taking it to OT. This, ONE week after he quit on the team by not calling time outs while driving against LSU. Russell easily could've gotten us into the end zone right there and allowed for an on-side kick with 1-2min left on the clock. Dan did not show relentless effort there. We let him know about it.

Wayne Madkin does a MSU radio show on BulldogSportsRadio. Obviously, he hates MSU and wants nothing to do with it.**
Matt Wyatt has the largest sports radio show in MS, while also doing MSU football games. He can't stand it here.**
Henig and his parents have MSU flags flying in front of their houses. Clearly, deep hatred there.**

You leave out guys that were actually good QB's here and are are immortalized as heros @ MSU like Sleepy Robinson and John Bond.

More than anything, you just have a bs negative way of looking at things. "Why would anyone want to come play qb at MSU?" Why would they not? You can put up AVERAGE SEC qb numbers and be immortalized here. You can be GOOD here and go to places no one has ever gone before. Tyler Russell has this opportunity. He is in position and projected to do something that NO MSU QB has done in 29 years. Get drafted into the NFL. Yes, he is projected as a 4th-5th round pick right now by nfldraftscout.com.

 

[Spanky.sixpack]

Please cease all association with us and cheer for another team.

<div>Tried. Didn't take.</div><div><span style="font-family: Tahoma, Verdana, sans-serif; font-size: 12px; background-color: rgb(255, 255, 255); ">

I guess you missed the part where Jevan Snead got knocked the F out when he got back to Oxford the Friday in 2009 after losing to USCe(and killing the national title pipe dream).

</span></div><div>There's the gold standard - freaking Ole Miss. And you're the one trying to preach to me about being a new age MSU fan? Yet you still harbor the Ole Miss inferiority complex.</div><div>
</div><div>Sleepy never got to play in an expectations year, like the others. I wasn't around for the Bond years, can't form an opinion there. In the end, both of these prove my point in my earlier post even further. Sleepy was allowed to develop and play his game, though we don't know how it would have turned out. Probably being booed alongside Greg Plump and Todd Jordan. And Bond was a starter for 4 years, obviously blowing his load his first two years. </div><div>
</div><div>Either we haven't had the surrounding talent, or the talent development, to have a QB actually increase his stock over time, or at least without the freefall at the end.</div><div>
</div><div>What was your point again? </div><div>
</div>

 

[engie]

I take exception to the idea that "we're some terrible fanbase." If you think so, PLEASE do us all a favor and go pull for someone else. We are JUST like every other fanbase in America. Actually, we're more patient and understanding than 99% of every fanbase out there. People that play for MSU LOVE IT. That's why Fletcher Cox, Pernell McPhee, KJ Wright, Chris White, Anthony Dixon, Kyle Love, Jerious Norwood, and COUNTLESS others come back EVERY CHANCE THEY GET. MSU has a tremendous history(at least under Mullen) of bringing back past players and keeping them involved with the program. Jackie Sherrill comes back for almost every game, and no one in MSU history went through more crap than he did for this university.

But you wouldn't know any of this, because you clearly aren't well-traveled in the culture of SEC and college football overall. All you know is MSU and your "I can't believe someone would boo our poor ole qb" attitude.

I compared us to OM because I was there when it happened to Jevan. Literally saw it go down.

 

[biguglyjoe]

It does seem like I remember them booing a botched call by the ref for a length of time.

 

[engie]

because it never happened. We did not boo our QB.

We booed when it became obvious that Mullen was going to run it up the middle and run out the clock(not using any time outs) and take it to overtime instead of going for the win in regulation, after we were already upset with him for how the LSU game ended.

We won, and it turned out OK. Mullen answered questions about that after the game. He liked the fact that we booed him because it showed that we cared and expected better, something that didn't exist when he first arrived. Mullen LOVES our emotional investment, both good or bad. If he can love it, he can no doubt teach his team to love it.

I'd rather be booed for 3 min in my career in front of an INTENSE, packed house that went crazy for my successes and failures than have played for Croom, never sold out the stadium, and never had people care either way.

The emotional investment and caring, both positive and negative, is a draw, not a detriment.

 

[windcrysmary]

nt

 

[biguglyjoe]

because it never happened. We did not boo our QB.

We booed when it became obvious that Mullen was going to run it up the middle and run out the clock(not using any time outs) and take it to overtime instead of going for the win in regulation, after we were already upset with him for how the LSU game ended.

We won, and it turned out OK. Mullen answered questions about that after the game. He liked the fact that we booed him because it showed that we cared and expected better, something that didn't exist when he first arrived. Mullen LOVES our emotional investment, both good or bad. If he can love it, he can no doubt teach his team to love it.

I'd rather be booed for 3 min in my career in front of an INTENSE, packed house that went crazy for my successes and failures than have played for Croom, never sold out the stadium, and never had people care either way.

The emotional investment and caring, both positive and negative, is a draw, not a detriment.

had faith in the QB to move the offense down the field and win the game in the last seconds, right?

 

[rabiddawg]

Our fans are fickle. It's just a fact. Personally, I'm getting tired of every QB who graduates from MSU having to defend themselves from our idiot fans. It's a wonder any of them even want to be associated with MSU.
<div>
</div><div>List of QBs I've heard booed with my own ears:</div><div>
</div><div>Todd Jordan: Amidst all the 'black players won't play for the white QB' rumors and the idiots clamoring for a freshman Derrick Taite. </div><div>
</div><div>Derrick Taite: Damn, that guy didn't deserve what he got. He did some dumb ****, and he fought with Eric Moulds over the same white girls, but he was what he was, an average QB. He's the poster boy for the 'backup QB is always better' crowd. Put in because we, eh em, booed the hell out of Todd Jordan.</div><div>
</div><div>Wayne Madkin: Only our winningest QB ever. Of course, he got a little lazy himself in 2001 too, partly due to Sherrill's lackadaisical oversight his final few years. </div><div>
</div><div>Kevin Fant: Another who didn't deserve what he got. Just an all around bad situation.</div><div>
</div><div>Omarr Conner: Anyone could see that Croom was his problem, yet people were still clamoring for the backup, who was.....</div><div>
</div><div>Michael Henig: Shouldn't have been out there.</div><div>
</div><div>Finally, Chris Relf: This was another damn shame. But I heard it myself. He even sent out a message or something after the season talking about, "No matter what you think of me, I gave it my all......". Why in the holy hell should our QB have to make such a statement? We have a lot of loud mouth pansy fans. </div><div>
</div>

Jordan's backup before Taite

 

[CadaverDawg]

And that's saying something. You give "advice" like you're some sort of MSU football historian, but half the **** you say is either made up or completely over exaggerated. I think you're the ultimate troll, and would love to see you vanish

 

[Todd4State]

That wasn't the problem at all. The problem was when he tried to juke out a Florida defender and ruined his knee.

That probably cost us a 8-10 win season as a matter of fact. I'm not sure if we beat Bama that year- they seemed to be a team of destiny and we had lost to LSU with Sleepy. Other than that we probably win the Egg Bowl with him that year- and I think we got upset by South Carolina in a typical Jackie Sherrill WTF loss that was an annual occurance.

 

[Todd4State]

Was more like Jordan/Taite/Plump/Rodney Hudson's back-up. Somehow we managed to get all of those guys either hurt and/or arrested in one season. That was probably the most remarkable thing that happened that year. And I guess even Bernard Euell was ahead of him on the depth chart because we used him sort of like a prehistoric wildcat QB.

 

[rabiddawg]

I just like bringing him up for old times sake. What was his name? I honestly can't remember. Something "ski"
Probably

 

[kimmer]

And should never, ever happen...PERIOD! If a player is not giving an acceptable effort the coaches are the ones who must address it. If they don't, then they should be held accountable but again, not by booing. Booing your own team accomplishes very little outside of making people sitting on their butts in the stands drinking bourbon and coke feel like big shots. It causes WAY more harm than good. It is a free country and people can do what they want but for the life of me I will never understand why some 'fans', like the morons who insist on ringing their cowbells during play, insist on doing things to hurt their own team!

 

[ThePinkFloyd]

Im sure the spelling is incorrect....

 

[RonnyAtmosphere]

I've seen a couple of people mention that we will boo Tyler out of the stadium after he has a multiple pick game.

I've heard a couple of people say the Germans are going to bomb Pearl Harbor again next Friday but I don't run to a messageboard & start a **** storm over it.

Guess what? "A couple of people" will boo Tyler if Tyler throws for 550 yds. & 5 TD's against Alabama.


"A couple of people" will boo Tyler if he throws for 498 yds. & 4 TD's against LSU.

17 a couple of people.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

You have the funniest animated gif in your profile I have ever seen.

 

[lazlow]

Other than Dan Marino, who no one could screw up,

I think you underestimate crooms

 

[Johnson85]

<div>Wayne Madkin: Only our winningest QB ever. Of course, he got a little lazy himself in 2001 too, partly due to Sherrill's lackadaisical oversight his final few years. <span style="font-weight: bold;">Don't remember how Taite was treated, but I'll agree fans were probably too hard on Madkin. He did mail it in towards the end, but he had already taken a lot of criticism when he ranged from being below average to average, with a few slightly above average performances, which is probably exactly what his ability was. A good coach and system probably could have made him a pretty good qb, though.
</span></div><div>
</div><div>Kevin Fant: Another who didn't deserve what he got. Just an all around bad situation. <span style="font-weight: bold;">When did Fant get booed? It was clear he spent most of his game on his back and had a ****** line. Don't remember people saying anything about Fant except they wished they could see him with decent surrounding talent.</span>
</div><div>
</div><div>Omarr Conner: Anyone could see that Croom was his problem, yet people were still clamoring for the backup, who was.....<span style="font-weight: bold;">Other than people wanting to use him as a receiver, where Crooms couldn't screw him up, I don't think people were particularly excited about seeing the 5'6" guy that looked like he was 14 years old playing qb.</span>
</div><div>
</div><div>Michael Henig: Shouldn't have been out there. <span style="font-weight: bold;">Wasn't an SEC player (and maybe not a division I player), but gave it his all. People booed Crooms a lot, but I don't remember people blaming Henig for not being an SEC qb.</span>
</div><div>
</div><div>Finally, Chris Relf: This was another damn shame. But I heard it myself. He even sent out a message or something after the season talking about, "No matter what you think of me, I gave it my all......". Why in the holy hell should our QB have to make such a statement? We have a lot of loud mouth pansy fans. <span style="font-weight: bold;">Pretty sure the fans loved Relf. He didn't have a particularly good senior year, but his line was **** and he was beat up. He may have gotten some criticism, but it's not like people booed him. Any message he sent out was probably just a result of twitter and the internet allowing players to see what moron fans are saying.
</span></div><div>
</div>

You also left off Wyatt, another qb that people more or less loved, and while he did a good job of playing within his ability and putting us in position to win and led some comeback drives, he wasn't exactly a world beater. While we have our fair share of dubmass fans, I don't think you can say that our fan base as a whole holds its qb's to an unrealistic standard.