Are we really that bad?? 0-11. Gordon is in his second season and cannot get one sec win?? What I didn't know until looking at assistant coaches is that his own wife is on the staff. Package deal with no package. Anyone have some insight other than a lot of close 1 goal losses?
MSU women's soccer season
- Thread starter DaRealistDawg
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Not that it makes that much difference to me whether they are 11-0 or 0-11, but can they not have draws in women's college soccer? Are they really 0 wins and 11 losses?
I'll echo that I've heard he's not really popular with his players.
It was his first season, and that's usually hard when it may not be players suited to your system. But it's going to be hard going forward for him with any team if the team doesn't buy in.
Something I do want to see addressed is identifying and offering girls from in-state and getting them to campus. In the past under the old regime, it seems like we we'd extend scholarships to players that probably would have been upper level D2 players and completely ignore legit D1 caliber players. I just never understood it. And there seemed to be some favoritism especially with Texas players.
So we'll see. Hopefully he can settle in and it gets better, but he'll need the players' respect.
It was his first season, and that's usually hard when it may not be players suited to your system. But it's going to be hard going forward for him with any team if the team doesn't buy in.
Something I do want to see addressed is identifying and offering girls from in-state and getting them to campus. In the past under the old regime, it seems like we we'd extend scholarships to players that probably would have been upper level D2 players and completely ignore legit D1 caliber players. I just never understood it. And there seemed to be some favoritism especially with Texas players.
So we'll see. Hopefully he can settle in and it gets better, but he'll need the players' respect.
Do we have something in the water at State. Rumors that softball, baseball and volleyball players don't like their coach. Are we doing a thorough background check on these coaches. Just a coincidence?
Just curious. How many D1 level prospects are there in Mississippi on an annual basis on average?
Did you forget sarcasterisks?
Isn't it to almost be expected that kids who are really having to earn their playing time and being held accountable for their performance, often for the first time, not going like the coach to lets them know where they really stand?
Seriously, if you got a D1 SEC college baseball, volleyball or softball scholarship, weren't you probably the best kid on the team on all your previous teams who might just be finding out now that you aren't actually the best player to ever play your sport. In college, almost everyone is a least as good as you are. Couple that with the helicopter parenting of the current generation, and it's probably remarkable that a majority of the team ever likes a college coach these day.
This is probably the big problem.
I admit up front that I haven't paid any attention to MSU soccer in the last couple of years, but . . .
Relatively speaking, Mississippi soccer is limited in the number of really talented girls who play and because of that, the talented ones have fewer opportunities to develop their talents against competition at their level at practice a couple of times a week and at weekly games. (I'm thinking about ODP region team make ups here.)
So even if you got every in-state girl out there, I'm not sure that would help MSU compete that much.
And worse yet, I think you have to try to recruit from out of state the kind of kid to Starkville who might be least likely to want to go spend four years there. You're often looking at a suburban princess demographic who may not want to come to a part of Mississippi that's relatively far away from a big urban area to attend a school most known for its engineering and agricultural programs. (Attracting the Ole Miss stereotypes would probably be more likely to help get you the typical mid-tier D1 soccer recruit, in my opinion.They are used to being around over-privileged, party kids who think they are much better than they are. That's the peer group they'd find most familiar, not grinding for their State.)
But I think there's some hope in that both the MSU head coach and his wife seems to have some connection to the ODP Region III teams. If they pick up a younger team Region III team in some way, get to know the best girls in a particular age group from the whole southeast, the girls learn about State through them, it could pay off down the road.
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Depends on the year, of course, and really what kind of D1 we're talking about. SWAC is D1 in soccer.
I think if you're talking about SEC level, on the girl's side (which will have more than guys because there are more programs, and the really top guys may just sign pro)- I'd say anywhere from 8-13/14ish true prospects. Some will want to quit playing, some will go JUCO because there's more scholarship money/friends are going/not as intense/whatever.
8 may not sound like a lot, but for the size of a soccer team, it's a decent lot to pick from. 1 or 2 have immediate impacts, usually. And truly, those are just your "knowns"- the kids playing club and supposedly getting seen. It's not easy, but I've seen some with no club experience that were excellent just off of athleticism and work rate.
I see a lot of burnout in D1 soccer with kids that absolutely love the game and put their heart and soul into it- I just think it's a tough one to play at that level. Guys and girls.
It would depend on the talent level of the class, but in a regular year I'd probably have 3-4 real targets (read: the best) and try to land at least 2. Because what's happening is we're having legit impact players 1. not getting offered, 2. going out of state and then beating us, and 3. isolating your program from kids who would have come if you only asked. Heard several really good players and/or parents say State never even called to hint at interest. And then that spreads and you get a bad rep.
I think if you're talking about SEC level, on the girl's side (which will have more than guys because there are more programs, and the really top guys may just sign pro)- I'd say anywhere from 8-13/14ish true prospects. Some will want to quit playing, some will go JUCO because there's more scholarship money/friends are going/not as intense/whatever.
8 may not sound like a lot, but for the size of a soccer team, it's a decent lot to pick from. 1 or 2 have immediate impacts, usually. And truly, those are just your "knowns"- the kids playing club and supposedly getting seen. It's not easy, but I've seen some with no club experience that were excellent just off of athleticism and work rate.
I see a lot of burnout in D1 soccer with kids that absolutely love the game and put their heart and soul into it- I just think it's a tough one to play at that level. Guys and girls.
It would depend on the talent level of the class, but in a regular year I'd probably have 3-4 real targets (read: the best) and try to land at least 2. Because what's happening is we're having legit impact players 1. not getting offered, 2. going out of state and then beating us, and 3. isolating your program from kids who would have come if you only asked. Heard several really good players and/or parents say State never even called to hint at interest. And then that spreads and you get a bad rep.
Your answer surprised me, but you probably know the girls in Mississippi a lot better than I do. Do you really think Mississippi is producing four SEC-level impact players a year? I feel that it's likely they are producing four or more SEC player a year, but four impact players a year?
I'm also sort of amazed by the idea that you have kids who you think are going to be SEC level players who aren't playing club. I can girls making decent high school players some places who didn't play club, but I think it would be really, really unusual to see a girl who hadn't played club play on a good team in the SEC.
But I agree that the MSU coach should be recruiting any legitimate players from in-state hard.
That's kind of what I am thinking too even if my viewpoint is only somewhat educated as I know that Mississippi jucos (which I keep up with fairly well) tend not to do well against Texas jucos when they compete in NJCAA competition (usually it's been MACJC versus Texas schools to advance to the NJCAA soccer tournament in many recent years - I've not really kept up with it too well lately, that said).
From what I recall from previous posts, CEO is a bit more familiar with this particular issue, which is why I asked.
From what I recall from previous posts, CEO is a bit more familiar with this particular issue, which is why I asked.
See, I disagree. I think the overall pool is down from where it was from about 06-12, but if you think about it, one player in soccer can have a huge impact. Getting a Laura Lee Smith or a Rachel Givan or an Iyana Moore or an Alex Cook is big-time IF that player reaches their potential. Those are off the top of my head- we've had several youth national team quality girls that are absolutely open ears to in-state schools.
We're not losing kids over it being Starkville. A lot of them want to go there or Ole Miss with their friends. Friends are a huge deal. Girls are more apt to staying in state than guys are, from my experience.
You don't have to find an immediate impact player in-state every year, but you need to find them some years. Because they're there. You can't afford to not even talk to them.
I'm a bit surprised the number is that high. That said, it makes sense considering that an emphasis on in-state recruiting is what you are advocating.
Thanks.
Thanks.
No. I said 1-2 true impact players, but I'd target about 4 a year- some can be quality depth until they develop. I don't think you come away with 4, and you may not even offer 4 (you definitely won't always). But there are USUALLY 4 that are SEC quality- I do believe that if you know what you want. I think our talent pool from 06-12 roughly was very good for a state our size. It's not where it was then, but it can still produce enough.
I say that about non-club players because I HAVE seen it. And it's rare, especially now- it was more in the early 2000's and before, and some into the mid-2000's. Less club teams, less knowledge of club outside of areas where club existed, etc. I saw it a decent amount then. But there may be really good players in D2 leagues that have developed over the years. Allison Mullen that played at State after being a 2 time All-American at Hinds is one (she only played D3 rec until like 12)- she got decent time and made an impact when she played, but they would start players from Texas over her. One of the more athletic girls I've ever seen, but if she were to be playing today, she'd still be talented enough to warrant a scholarship without club experience.
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It's a very rough and dirty estimate, no doubt. It's somewhat to do with the fact that I think we underrate some and have to account for the fact that some JUCO's are getting legit D1 players. I know this guy has called some of the JUCO's trying to strike up some kind of partnership, and I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, but I'm not sure about sign and placements in a league more limited by rules than others (the ones in Texas you alluded to that don't limit internationals, etc. That's why they usually beat ours and it's not close.)
Definitely my opinion, and it might be influenced by previous years where there were more. Talent usually comes in waves from what I've seen- the teams that go far in regionals produce a few D1 players alone. 2005 Madison St. Joseph guys had 9/11 starters I think that went on to play at 4 year schools, a couple being impact players.
I expect 8 around D1 level (so, USM and some even smaller D1 or good D2), 3-4 worth taking a shot on, usually need to land 1-2. Not a hard estimate by any stretch. If there's just 3, there's just 3.
EDIT: If this makes sense.... in the pool of 8, we're picking the other 4 to target it seems, while Georgia and Alabama are raiding our top few.
Asked a club director, he said 3-7. I agree with that, because at the end of the day, you'll OFFER the best 3 probably at most in any given year. You should still talk to that pool of 7-8 over the years and let it all play out. Need to promote your program period, you might find a kid that develops a little later (I think with girls you can usually see a lot at younger ages to get a head start), and that kid may be on a team that just has a lot of talent.
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Good points. Thanks.
By the way, since you mention good D2, I'm a bit surprised at this combination of the following:
1. Delta State only has four Mississippians on its roster.
2. Mississippi College which is D3 (but moving to D2) has seven Mississippians on its roster.
3. The Lady Choctaws beat Delta State 4-1 this past season.
By the way, since you mention good D2, I'm a bit surprised at this combination of the following:
1. Delta State only has four Mississippians on its roster.
2. Mississippi College which is D3 (but moving to D2) has seven Mississippians on its roster.
3. The Lady Choctaws beat Delta State 4-1 this past season.
State probably isn't losing in-state kids because it's Starkville. You are likely right about that. I think most in-state kids would be glad to be asked to play. And I agree that the coach should take the time to recruit them if only for the in-state good will and how it affects younger kids in the same club programs.
I think that it's probably pretty hard to recruit top level out of state talent to State to play soccer, though. Saying "suburban princess" in my last post might be too mean, but State's not as aspirational school for them. The coach will really have to work to get them to want to go there vs some other SEC schools they are more familiar with or that they think will impress their friends more. More than anything State just isn't a school that they hear much about and they never hear about it in a positive way for soccer.
Don't get me wrong. I think the girls from my area should be more interested than they presently are, and they sure as heck aren't going to play for State if no one ever recruits them. The coach just has his work cut out for him. We will see what happens in a couple of years when the new coach recruits his own players and builds up his name is regional soccer community.
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Yeah, I don't disagree on out-of-state talent. I really wouldn't know. I know Tomball, TX and some place in Oklahoma were favorites of Neil MacDonald. And sometimes those players were favored over people that were just as good if not better, probably to keep those lines open. MY opinion, what I've heard from MS players and I can see it from watching games and hearing their input. That was also a few years ago. I don't care where the kid is from, just play the best.
I do know in-state players that were good enough that never got a phone call. Some more than good enough. And that's a reason you're correct in that the coach has his work cut out for him- State's developed a bad in-state rep recruiting-wise. Hopefully he can work out of it. From talking to 2 JUCO coaches, he's been reaching out to them. Like you said, we'll see.
In an ideal world, a coach that kids want to play for will recruit kids that are good enough to play there.
I do know in-state players that were good enough that never got a phone call. Some more than good enough. And that's a reason you're correct in that the coach has his work cut out for him- State's developed a bad in-state rep recruiting-wise. Hopefully he can work out of it. From talking to 2 JUCO coaches, he's been reaching out to them. Like you said, we'll see.
In an ideal world, a coach that kids want to play for will recruit kids that are good enough to play there.
You and me both, I don't get it. I'll be honest in that I don't really know Paul Babba. He should be good and have good in-state connections, but I don't personally know him and just can't say. After looking at DSU's roster, 2 of those in-state kids are real D2's. The others look like projects/depth, but maybe they're good enough. If this says anything about DSU's past, the all-time scoring leader played 2 seasons.
I do think a few of the club coaches (and 1-2 HS coaches that are also club coaches) could do a decent job at one of the D1's. Really. I think they have good reps, are good to play for, have good connections, and are just good coaches in general. I wish that were more common. A job coaching college soccer is so hard to get most are content with club as side money and as a side interest.
All in all, we could have done a better job of keeping good players in state and incredibly didn't even talk to some that went on to have significant careers elsewhere, while valuing at times players that were good but not the cream of the crop. Looking forward, I'd like to not miss on in-state players while also knowing exactly what we need out of state.
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Girls play sports?
The 0-11 soccer team is the only bright spot in an otherwise dismal MSU Girls Sports program. By losing, they get rid of those "independent" feelings that has destroyed America worse than when we first gave women the vote.
The 0-11 soccer team is the only bright spot in an otherwise dismal MSU Girls Sports program. By losing, they get rid of those "independent" feelings that has destroyed America worse than when we first gave women the vote.
There's likely to be a weird chicken or the egg loop with being a coach who kids want to play for vs. recruiting talent capable of winning so you can have a program that kids want to play in. Let's just hope some magic happens.
It's hard to describe what being a college coach requires. You absolutely have to have connections, both to get the job and then to keep the job. You don't have to be extremely likable, but you have to have their respect- especially true with girls. That comes in many forms, but it's the one constant I've seen.
I'm hoping for the best. I just know that's what the early word out was from players in the system last year. It might have been necessary. I want our team to be solid, and I want to correctly identify and recruit our in-state players. Because one player does matter sometimes- if you get a Marion Crowder last year, that's the difference in a few games more than likely. Almost set a school record in goals as a freshman- also dates one of our baseball players and probably has tons of friends here, so has a reason to go to school here. And if you get her, then you try to get a package deal with Hailey Brohaugh who also made the regional team consistently and was considered in national team camps.
It's not the fault of Gordon by any means, but obviously the former OM coach recruited our state better than the coaches actually in the state did, and that says a lot.
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