Mullen and Upsets

[57stratdawg]

Arkansas didn't "fall back to Earth". They fell off the back of a red Harley Davidson.

You're awfully quick to point out how good the teams are that we lose to, but you never mention how unfathomably ****** the teams that we beat are. Let's take a look at our SEC victories over the last two years and how they finished in the conference:

2011:
UK - 2-6
OM - 0-8

2012:
Auburn - 0-8
UK - 0-8
Tenn - 1-7
Ark - 2-6

Our conference wins have an aggregate conference W/L record of 5-43. That's a winning percentage of 10.4%. Do you know how many current SEC coaches Dan Mullen has beaten? One - Mark Richt. You push this line of BS that it'll take one of the top SEC blue bloods falling before we're able to beat them. But, what it really takes is the average teams to fall to ****** before we can knock them off (See Auburn and Ark in 2012).

We can do better than that.

 

[Hump4Hoops]

I don't associate with the rapist.

 

[DerHntr]

I think you are right with Florida. They would have had a good season if they beat us that year.

But UGA I don't agree with. If UGA had beaten us they would have gone 7-6 which would still be the only time between 1996 and now that they have had less than 8 wins.

As for TN, they basically started to fall off the map in 2005 and we have only played them three times in that stretch unfortunately (and only 7 times since Manning was a freshmens in 18 years....I reserve the right to be wrong in my ability to count today).

As for OM, I will give Mullen all the credit earned. Beating them is difficult no matter how good or bad either team is in a given year.

 

[Coach34]

Correction- Andy Kennedy is a great coach for YOUR program- ya know- the only SEC school without an SEC title in basketball

 

[DerHntr]

"Coach, I agree that the problem is that you've become an apologist for Mullen."

Cheerleader34?

 

[57stratdawg]

No doubt. If the Gator Bowl was played on Dec 30th, it wouldn't mean any more or less to me.

 

[Arloguthrie]

Ah yes, one of your many idiotic theories. Fans should be content with whatever their school's historical average performance is for each sport, abandoning any hopes of hiring a coach who actually improves the program, even if the school's current coach is an asshat who has never made the NCAA tournament despite having several talented teams. That theory?

I like your "15 years from now" theory much better. You know, your theory that everything should be judged based upon what people will say 15 years from now: "In 15 years people will only remember how many games we won."

Or "My ex-wife and I may have cheated on each other repeatedly, culminating in a domestic disturbance in a Taco Bell parking lot and an assault in which I screamed, 'You got something for MEEEE,' causing me to move to another state, where I now spend 10 hours a day posting on SPS, but in 15 years all anyone will remember is that I'm a kickass message board commenter and leader of the SPS sheep. So I've got that going for me."

 

[johnson86-1]

It is fine if you don't think that Mullen did a piss poor job of coaching at the end of the season.

Does anybody really argue this? I think they argue against the dubmasses that claim Mullen isn't a good coach. Up until this last year, the only thing you could fault Mullen for was being too naive to play the game, which combined with Crooms deciding OL weren't important for two years, left us with an OL that set us back after the first gator bowl.

After this year, we know something was wrong with the playcalling on offense and something happened to the team's intensity. I don't know what the 17 was going on, but I doubt the problem is that Mullen is a ****** coach. He's still the same person that maximized his talent the prior three years (with the exception of the '11 Auburn game). Sometimes coaches just have ****** seasons, whether it's because of a bad fit with their players, or other coaches, personal problems keeping them distracted, or just being burnt out. It's entirely possible Mullen never gets his **** together. But to me it seems just as possible (and more likely) that his lack of intensity this year was the result of him being a little burnt out, combined with knowing that his naivety in recruiting the first few years left him with a team that is bottoming out talentwise, which limited his ability to call the plays he wanted on offense and also exposed his DC as being incapable of hiding the lack of talent.

If the playcalling on offense is as bad next year as it was this year, I'll be ready to consider whether Mullen cannot make adjustments and is only an above average coach (which makes him average, at best, in the SEC).

 

[QuaoarsKing]

If Babe McCarthy hadn't been denied a chance to play in the NCAA Tournament, and if the tournament had 68 bids in it back then, he would have taken us to 6 NCAA Tournaments in only 10 years, and likely several Sweet 16s or more.

It's really manipulating stats to call Stans our "all-time winningest coach" when McCarthy has a better winning % in both conference and non-conference games, and only has fewer wins per year because they played fewer games in seasons back then.

 

[57stratdawg]

Mullen has ZERO wins over Top 20 teams.

He is 2-16 vs the Top 25 teams.

^^^^ those are the games that build programs. Maybe Mullen gets us over the hump in 2013, but he hasn't yet.

 

[ArcherSPS]

Dude that's a low blow. Keep personal life off a messageboard

 

[Coach34]

. Again, you said when Mullen was hired, if he didn't have an overall winning SEC record in five years, then he should be fired. You've now had to backtrack from that. He may not even have a .500 record SEC record in his fifth year at MSU. His overall record in five years in the SEC? Not even close to .500.
.

This is the 2nd time you you've told that lie- aGAIN, feel free to link that....I think you are confused, I said .500 for the season. Hell, I figured he would need a 2-3 years to even get to 4-4 in the SEC for a season- there was no way in hell anybody thought he would be .500 overall

 

[Coach34]

Mullen has ZERO wins over Top 20 teams.

He is 2-16 vs the Top 25 teams.

The top 20 doesnt exist anymore- it's the top 25 now. That's just more ******** like the SEC West stuff. Now that that is gone- people want to find something else.

Bottom line, he has made us a mid-level SEC program currently and elevated us from the bottom. That's what you like to see out of your coach.

 

[Coach34]

The winner of the Gator Bowl has finished in the top 16 five times in the last 10 years and in the top 20 seven times

 

[57stratdawg]

I can't believe I'm going to reply to that stupid crap you just typed, but even if we had won we weren't going to finish in the top 25.

Luckily, the mighty B1G 10 powerhouse that is Northwestern saved us from having to wonder, when they beat us for their first bowl win Harry F*cking Truman was the president.

 

[Coach34]

Northwestern was 2-0 against the SEC this year

 

[57stratdawg]

Northwestern was 2-0 against the SEC this year

How did they beat more bowl eligible SEC teams than us?

 

[tenureplan]

The top 20 doesnt exist anymore- it's the top 25 now. That's just more ******** like the SEC West stuff. Now that that is gone- people want to find something else.

Bottom line, he has made us a mid-level SEC program currently and elevated us from the bottom. That's what you like to see out of your coach.

Stop right there! Didn't you have a top 20 stat that you loved to spout about Stans? Wasn't it your signature?

 

[jdbulldog]

Mullen can coach; he can recruit; he can promote....

Since 2010- We are 24-15....We have lost to:

Alabama-3 losses...they are 35-5
LSU- 3 losses...they are 34-6
UPig- 2 losses...they were 21-5 those two seasons
Auburn- 2 losses...they went 22-5 in those 2 seasons
Georgia- 1 loss- they won 10 games, and won the East title
SC- 1 loss- they went 11-2
Texas A&M- 1 loss - they went 11-2 and had the Heisman winner
Northwestern- 1 loss- they won 10 games
Mississippi- went 7-6

In the SEC the last 3 years- only two 10+ win teams have lost to a team with less than 10 wins: SC over Bama at home in 2010, and Auburn over SC in 2011.

So, let's dont act like it's a Mullen problem. For the most part- the only teams beating 10+ win SEC teams are other 10+ win SEC teams. Mullen only has 2 losses to teams that didnt win 10+ the last 3 years both on the road @Auburn and @OM. I'm still pissed off about those losses also- but those types of games do happen, especially on the road.

Comments like "I've been saying Mullen isnt that good of a coach" is just flat out ********. We havent had 10 win type talent- especially on offense. A better comment would be "I dont think Mullen can recruit well enough to get our talent level to the 10 win plateau"- now there you might have a point. But Starkville and our students have to do more in regards to helping this as well. Recruiting is just not a Mullen-thing - it's a Mississippi State thing

Mullen has a brilliant football mind and is a tireless worker. He does need some help during recruiting season. Recruiting is on everybody. Mullen rules and is our best coach on campus.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

i love what mullen is doing but you decided to leave out certain things to meet your agenda. why leave out the teams we lost to in '09? and losing to auburn who went 22-5 looks great over two years, but not as good when 5 of those losses came in one year. not trying to start a pissing match but i really don't get why you leave out the '09 season

 

[HD6]

That's difficult when people keep bringing it up like it's a positive.

 

[HD6]

This is the main truth in this, that Dan Mullen hasn't done anything a bunch of coaches couldn't have done. If we had hired Mark Hudspeth in 2009, would the last 4 seasons have been that different for us?

 

[Koldfire]

Arkansas didn't "fall back to Earth". They fell off the back of a red Harley Davidson.

You're awfully quick to point out how good the teams are that we lose to, but you never mention how unfathomably ****** the teams that we beat are. Let's take a look at our SEC victories over the last two years and how they finished in the conference:

2011:
UK - 2-6
OM - 0-8

2012:
Auburn - 0-8
UK - 0-8
Tenn - 1-7
Ark - 2-6

Our conference wins have an aggregate conference W/L record of 5-43. That's a winning percentage of 10.4%. Do you know how many current SEC coaches Dan Mullen has beaten? One - Mark Richt. You push this line of BS that it'll take one of the top SEC blue bloods falling before we're able to beat them. But, what it really takes is the average teams to fall to ****** before we can knock them off (See Auburn and Ark in 2012).

We can do better than that.

Dead on Strat. We topped the bottom feeders. There will always be 4-5 SEC teams with 4 or less wins. In our present position, being one of the teams with 4 wins requires us to play 3 really bad SEC teams. Play 4 weak OOC teams, get 7-8 wins, go bowling, and the dream is still alive (and the sunshine pumping). If we aren't much improved this year, we will be lucky to get 3 SEC wins. If we lose to OSU, we will do our bowling at Bulldog Lanes.

 

[johnson86-1]

Some coaches could have done.

This is the main truth in this, that Dan Mullen hasn't done anything a bunch of coaches couldn't have done. If we had hired Mark Hudspeth in 2009, would the last 4 seasons have been that different for us?

Not that many. The first year, we had Dixon and a good line, but could everybody have managed to turn that into a respectable offense with minime playing qb? The second year I think Mullen was particularly well suited for our personnel. After that, it's a toss up, but it's not like it's that easy to immediately frog leap from 12th in the SEC to 7th. Pretty sure UT would ahve taken Mullen over the Dooley experience. Take away Chizik's willingness to spend on Newton, and who do you think Auburn would want? Arkansas obviously would have liked to have had him this year; we'll see what happens with their new guy. UK would love to have him.

 

[HD6]

The new guy at Arkansas has been to 3 straight Rose Bowls, I dare say his resume is better than Mullen's. I would rank them.....

Saban
Spurrier
Miles
Richt
Sumlin
Bielama
Muschamp

and then we get to where Mullen might be appropriately ranked.

 

[Coach34]

Stop right there! Didn't you have a top 20 stat that you loved to spout about Stans? Wasn't it your signature?

It was top 25

We've been in a Final Four, Sweet 16, won 6 SEC basketball titles and 3 SEC Tourney titles since we last won an SEC football title

And let's remember- SEC football = Big East basketball. Comparing SEC Football to SEC basketball is a joke at best

 

[DerHntr]

Cmon HD6. Mullen farts excellence. He should call all of our plays. We don't need an OC. The special teams are vastly improved, well at least punting. Team chemistry is at an all time high. Our guys look like they could bleed maron by the way they all play with relentless effort. All is well. No way we could win any of those 5 losses. Out talented plain and simple. Coaching can never overcome talent.


/I do like Mullen but the inability to stop pumping sunshine by some is getting weird.

 

[mount lefroy]

What is his record vs 6-9 win teams. This will tell us

a couple of things. Who was decent enough to make a bowl, and how often he's had the opportunity. Might want to throw in 5 win teams since

They actually were made 5 win teams by him beating them.

I do not stand firmly on either side of this issue because I believe he has been tested mainly with ice cold water (****** teams) or blazing hot (10+ win teams).

The bar has been raised by non other than himself. Funny thing is, for the crew that says he isnt meeting their standards, it's Mullen's success they are comparing him to.

Same with Sherrill, Polk and the talent brought in by Stansbury.

But for them, we have no expectation of talent or wins or post season success.

And yet, we have higher standards.

Go figure.

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Dude that's a low blow. Keep personal life off a messageboard

I was under the distinct impression that 34 offered that information up on a public forum. <checking the="" facts=""> Yep. He did.

Quit trying to police the board.</checking>

 

[CookieMonster.sixpack]

Ah...the vanilla the theory. I was hoping I wasn't the only one who remembered that.

 

[patdog]

Mullen is 7-5 against 6-9 win teams. 0-3 his first year, and 7-2 since.

 

[lazlow]

The problem is Mullen doesn't have any upset wins, no signature victories.
This past year would have been really nice to pull one of those off.
He can't beat a Top 20 team, or he hasn't yet and I sure don't see it happening in 2013.
Mullen has led us to the mountain, but can he take us up the hill to the Top??

Just curious......how many teams has mullen faced that were top20 but not top 10? how'd he do against those teams?

 

[Coach34]

Dude that's a low blow. Keep personal life off a messageboard

I dont let dumbasses like that bother me...plus I know damn well he doesnt have anything for meeeeee either

 

[Coach34]

Mullen is 7-5 against 6-9 win teams. 0-3 his first year, and 7-2 since.

and that folks was my point- we arent an elite SEC team- but we have improved greatly and we have become a solid program

 

[57stratdawg]

This surprised me until I looked at what teams you were talking about. Last two years:

2012 -
Jackson State (in Starkville)
Middle TN State (in Starkville)

2011 -
La Tech (in Starkville)
Wake Forrest (In Nashville)

Come on, these are games we should win regardless. I understand that in the past we might have dropped one, but these are games we should expect to win as fans.

 

[JackShephard]

you will see OM with at least 1 this year

you will also see them challenge for 2nd in the West. yeah, yeah, blast me now. Ya'll blasted me last year when i said they would be playing us for their bowl eligibility before the season started. I don't think they finish 2nd in the West this year, but they will be in a fight for it in November and finish no lower than 4th. THEN, after we have to watch their 2 year turnaround and our 5th year under Mullen is just like the first 4....then you'll have some people starting to wonder.

 

[MadDawg.sixpack]

That was awesome.

 

[FISHDAWG]

sorry ddog but it seems the man doesn't fit the bill if he doesn't excell in ALL AREAS ... you know, kinda like the rest of us perfect bastards expect him too **

 

[fishwater99]

So there is no Top 10, Top 5, Top 15, Top 20... Whatever you want to call them.
I agree, that the Polls are the Top 25, but you can talk about the Top 10 or Top 20 teams in conversation.

I agree that Mullen has improved our program, but we took a small step back last year and I see more of the same in 2013.
I hope I am wrong and we win 10 games next year, but I think we will be lucky to get 7 wins next season.
Last season really brought out some major coaching deficiencies in our program.

 

[johnson86-1]

And how many of those people could MSU have hired?

The new guy at Arkansas has been to 3 straight Rose Bowls, I dare say his resume is better than Mullen's. I would rank them.....

Saban
Spurrier
Miles
Richt
Sumlin
Bielama
Muschamp

and then we get to where Mullen might be appropriately ranked.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say we would have had trouble luring away the coaches with national championships (as a head coach) on their resume. Richt seems like he would have been a stretch also. To me Sumlin is the only guy on that list that is comparable. He has won at a weak school and won big at a school that while it had all the advantages, had not lived up to them in the past.

What did Saban do at the other MSU and Miles do at OkSt? Was it really that much better than what Mullen has done so far?

Mullen has screwed himself by wasting two years in recruiting, but until he showed his lack of intensity this year, overall his performance has looked pretty damn good. He's had two classes that at least give us the chance to compete against top 20 teams. If he can get to a bowl game this year, next year will be the year I feel like we know whether he can keep us in the top six teams in the SEC.