Looking back at 2009 it's easy to make the case that Mullen outcoached Freeze in his first year. While it's true that Freeze got OM at 6-6 to a bowl game and Mullen didn't at 5-7. That's not the whole story. First, Mullen played a much tougher schedule in his inaugural season than Freeze. In fact no division 1-A school played a tougher schedule. MSU played 10 teams with winning records that all went to bowl games. Secondly, you have to consider how much better Auburn and Arkansas were in 2009 than 2012. In 2009 both teams posted 8-4 records, and yet Mullen had the same SEC record that Freeze had this year. Third, there were blowout wins against state, but nothing as embarrasing as Texas. Forth, Freeze had more experienced talent than Mullen did in his first year. Mullen didn't have the advantage of having a legit QB and two mature top 25 recruiting classes to work with. Mullen had to use a lot more incoming true freshmen to get his results. So OM fans don't get too excited about your overhyped coach.
Mullen had better first year than Freeze...
- Thread starter sickasadawg
- Start date
I agree on all terms. But we were just as excited, if not more excited, than they are. I think our seasons were very much alike. Alot of the excitement from those type seasons comes from the egg bowl vistories alone. Our strength of schedule that year makes up for one or two losses that we had. Also, we hung in there with the good teams while Ole Miss got blown out by more than one of them. And Texas is not that good.
I was with you up until this point. So the following Juniors and Seniors that Mullen inherited don't count as experienced talent: Jamar Chaney, Sr., Chris White, Jr., KJ Wright, Sr., Kyle Love, Sr., Pernell McPhee, Jr., Derek Sherrod, Jr, Anthony Dixon, Sr.
How many NFL players that were Jrs and Seniors would constitute experienced talent? I count 7 NFL players, 5 on defense not counting a sophomore Charles Mitchell, Freshman Banks and Cox. That means at any one time you had 8 NFL players on that 2009 defense alone. Now please tell me again about this really untalented 2009 MSU football team?
So recruiting rankings count now? Awesome, hang the damn banner. Also, who is this legit QB you speak of? Wallace? The JUCO QB that almost walked on at Ole Miss? Is that our legit QB? You don't think Mullen could have signed a QB in his first class? Was that Mullen's first mistake?
Where was all this mature talent? Most of our secondary is fr/so with a couple of walk ons helping out. Our Starting LT was a juco that Freeze had to recruit. Most of the DL was Fr/So (although very talented). The LB crew has a rFr and a couple of guys that couldnt crack a 2 deep at a lot of school, but at least their older and experienced. That legit QB you are talking about was recruited by freeze, not inherited, and is a So. We have 1 running back with any experience and a backup that was our starting QB last year. The WR were the only spot on the field that I would say had a clear advantage over your 2009 team as a unit.
I get that you are sick of another fanbase, especially your rival fanbase, being excited with their new coach and situation, but this post is assanine.
I get that you are sick of another fanbase, especially your rival fanbase, being excited with their new coach and situation, but this post is assanine.
To put it a different way, what NFL talent do you see on this team? There definitely is some, but do you think any will be drafted this year or next without someone leaving early?
Actually, I think the two coaches' first year compare almost identically. MSU had a tougher non-conference schedule and lost two of those games--to a BCS team in GT and a 10-win team in Houston while Ole Miss lost its only difficult non-conference game to a team as good as Houston but not as good as GT.
In conference, both teams went 3-5.
In 2009, MSU's SEC wins came over a VERY BAD Vandy team, a low-level bowl team in Kentucky and an over-rated instate rival in Ole Miss. In conference play, MSU was blown out by unranked and 5-loss Auburn, blown out by eventual NC Alabama and blown out by 5-loss Arkansas. MSU played very competitively against SECE Champ Florida and had a heartbreaker against a 4-loss but fairly highly rated LSU team.
Ole Miss' 3 conference wins came against a VERY BAD Auburn team, a pretty damn bad Arkansas team (in a close win) and against an over-rated instate rival in MSU. OM, in 2012, was blown out by SECE Champion Georgia. OM played eventual NC Alabama fairly closely and lost last-minute heartbreakers to 10-win and top 10 team Texas A&M and a 10-win and top 10 LSU team. OM also lost a heartbreaker to an unranked 8-win Vanderbilt team.
The results are nearly identical. MSU had a better SEC win against Kentucky than OM had against Arkansas and played their difficult non-conference opponents better than OM. On the flip side, the quality of Ole Miss' losses was greater than the quality of MSU's. Obviously the bowl game gives the perception that Freeze did a better job than Mullen in their respective first years, but if he did, it isn't by a large margin.
In conference, both teams went 3-5.
In 2009, MSU's SEC wins came over a VERY BAD Vandy team, a low-level bowl team in Kentucky and an over-rated instate rival in Ole Miss. In conference play, MSU was blown out by unranked and 5-loss Auburn, blown out by eventual NC Alabama and blown out by 5-loss Arkansas. MSU played very competitively against SECE Champ Florida and had a heartbreaker against a 4-loss but fairly highly rated LSU team.
Ole Miss' 3 conference wins came against a VERY BAD Auburn team, a pretty damn bad Arkansas team (in a close win) and against an over-rated instate rival in MSU. OM, in 2012, was blown out by SECE Champion Georgia. OM played eventual NC Alabama fairly closely and lost last-minute heartbreakers to 10-win and top 10 team Texas A&M and a 10-win and top 10 LSU team. OM also lost a heartbreaker to an unranked 8-win Vanderbilt team.
The results are nearly identical. MSU had a better SEC win against Kentucky than OM had against Arkansas and played their difficult non-conference opponents better than OM. On the flip side, the quality of Ole Miss' losses was greater than the quality of MSU's. Obviously the bowl game gives the perception that Freeze did a better job than Mullen in their respective first years, but if he did, it isn't by a large margin.
I'm going to agree with you on alot of this. Mullen had just as much time as Freeze did to come in and recruit. We could have gotten some JUCOs to fill gaps, I mean ****, we actually did - Berry, Langston, Hutchins, Brauchle, McPhee, White). But honestly our offense was not terrible in 2009, though my point is that sickasadawg can't hold that against Freeze like he had some advantage.
But there again rebel, you can't use Chris White and FUTURE NFL guys against us, we're talking about 'mature' talent here too. Love, Chaney and Dixon are about it. We don't know who play in the NFL off your team. Ya'll had some seniors play roles as well. But yes, your point is correct.
But there again rebel, you can't use Chris White and FUTURE NFL guys against us, we're talking about 'mature' talent here too. Love, Chaney and Dixon are about it. We don't know who play in the NFL off your team. Ya'll had some seniors play roles as well. But yes, your point is correct.
While I agree with your premise, your argument is pretty weak
pretty much all of your points are extremely rebuttable. I do believe both coaches did well considering what they walked into. The jury is out on whether or not Freeze can continue the momentum in Oxford. Mullen obviously did as evidenced by all these posters being discouraged about an 8-4 season.
pretty much all of your points are extremely rebuttable. I do believe both coaches did well considering what they walked into. The jury is out on whether or not Freeze can continue the momentum in Oxford. Mullen obviously did as evidenced by all these posters being discouraged about an 8-4 season.
Your tougher schedule in 09 argument is ******** and invalid.
Total wins are all that matters.
How do I know? I read it on Sixpack.
Total wins are all that matters.
How do I know? I read it on Sixpack.
Your 2012 argument about our tougher schedule in 09 argument is ******** and invalid.
Total wins are all that matters.
How do I know? I read it on Nafoom in 2009.
Total wins are all that matters.
How do I know? I read it on Nafoom in 2009.
To be fair, when Freeze go to the Bears, they had lost around 20 scholarship players to academics because Nutt apparently forgot to tell them they needed to go to class. They played the season with less scholarship players than a Div II school. Both did well, but time will tell if Freeze has a better recruiting class in his first full year than Dan's first one.
We got screwed in the Houston game in 2009. That was a game that we probably would have won, had the officials not stepped-in to help the Cougars. I remember Tyson Lee making a critical 3rd or 4th down pass that would have had us like, 1st and 10 in the redzone. It was in the second half and we had regained the momentum, Boobie had run Houston's defense ragged by this point. Anyway, after the completion was made, the ref steps in claiming that Lee had stepped beyond the line of scrimmage, therefore, loss of down and 5 yard penalty. This play was not challenged but the video clip clearly revealed that the Lee's foot was not past the LOS when the ball was released. It was a game changing call that probably kept us from being bowl eligible.
Are you 17ing kidding? Ole Miss wins February every damn year. Now you are saying you had less talent? WTF!?
I recall OM being the victim of a spot so bad against Vanderbilt that the SEC office stated the call was wrong and OM should have gotten the ball. Difference being, refs bad call in 2009 resulted in MSU not getting the CHANCE to TIE the game. Blown call in 2012 resulted, factually, in Ole Miss not being given the opportunity to take two snaps and two knees to WIN the game.
It was a 4th down in the 3rd quarter and we were up 3. Would have been 1st and goal from the 4. We probably go up 10. Instead Houston went down and tied it up. Factually. Also that was the same game the CUSA refs tried to give Houston a 5th down on one of their early drives. Knew we were in for it from the start that day.
Care to link where the SEC office said the spot was wrong? Fact is, the spot where the ball was actually spotted was pretty good. The one ref had initially put his foot almost a yard behind where the spot should have been and then it appears another ref corrected him.
This has been covered over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over - it's called "attrition." Houston could get some of them here, but he couldn't make them act right or pass their classes. Hugh Freeze, on the other hand, has.
I'm not surprised you can't understand it, though.
Fact is you're wrong.
Where he should have been spotted - Just over the 47.
Where he was spotted - Just over the 48
He would have been half a football short if the spot was correct. The word from Ole Miss officials was that the head official (who also cost Ole Miss a TD or near TD late in the 4th against aTm with a phantom holding call) came to Hugh Freeze and told him it would be reviewed upstairs while the measurement and chain-moving happened and not to use his challenge because it would cost him a timeout. I can't vouch for the validity of that, but it supposedly came directly from him. If that was reviewed and not noticed, it is yet another failure by SEC officiating. I think the same people who reported the official-Freeze conversation also reported that Steve Shaw admitted to Freeze/Bjork that the call was missed.
and???
I am sick and tired of these threads trying so hard to ignore the reality that Ole Miss is turning the corner and is definitely on the way up...I mean we are really trying hard when we are saying "uh well Mullen had a better first year.".....really??? What the hell does that prove??? Based on the talent they have now and coming in, they will pass us quick(might have already)....I hate them as much as anybody but lets face it, they got the secret formula right now and we seem to be losing what little edge we have had. They will win 8+ games (next year save my post.)
I am sick and tired of these threads trying so hard to ignore the reality that Ole Miss is turning the corner and is definitely on the way up...I mean we are really trying hard when we are saying "uh well Mullen had a better first year.".....really??? What the hell does that prove??? Based on the talent they have now and coming in, they will pass us quick(might have already)....I hate them as much as anybody but lets face it, they got the secret formula right now and we seem to be losing what little edge we have had. They will win 8+ games (next year save my post.)
Fact is you're wrong.
Where he should have been spotted - Just over the 47.
Where he was spotted - Just over the 48
He would have been half a football short if the spot was correct. The word from Ole Miss officials was that the head official (who also cost Ole Miss a TD or near TD late in the 4th against aTm with a phantom holding call) came to Hugh Freeze and told him it would be reviewed upstairs while the measurement and chain-moving happened and not to use his challenge because it would cost him a timeout. I can't vouch for the validity of that, but it supposedly came directly from him. If that was reviewed and not noticed, it is yet another failure by SEC officiating. I think the same people who reported the official-Freeze conversation also reported that Steve Shaw admitted to Freeze/Bjork that the call was missed.
In that first picture, I can't be certain that the runner's knee is down. I would need to see video.
You will be receiving an offer from the SEC office to be a referee later today. Keep up the good work.
Instead of worrying about what we did in 2009 ...why don't we spend time being competitive with our NEW tier in the middle class and keep getting better.
Top Tier
Bama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
USC
aTm
2nd Tier
Arkansas
Auburn
MSU
Vandy
Ole Miss
3rd Tier
Missouri
UT
Kentucky
Top Tier
Bama
LSU
Florida
Georgia
USC
aTm
2nd Tier
Arkansas
Auburn
MSU
Vandy
Ole Miss
3rd Tier
Missouri
UT
Kentucky
Not buying the "attrition" argument over here. Sell it at BAFOON. Nutt never had any problems with recruits in 2008 and 2009. How does anyone explain that? It's called making promises to get recruits to sign. We you do this you lose control over your football program. It's a pattern that will be repeated over and over and over and over and over and over and over at OM because the boosters run your program not the coach. Plus, remember Brassell getting arrested and in trouble for not going to class and yet he is being allowed to return to the team. The pattern begins again...
I'm not suprised you can't understand it, though.
I'm not suprised you can't understand it, though.
Mutt the Hoople -
sorry Patdog - I went back and looked again and it was MUTT - quote is below
(Note: The university ole miss isn't all bad- they have beautiful women, and the university makes for a great ladies' finishing school, providing tMSU engineers with wives for decades now).
candidate for 6-pack remembers but taken from the Northwestern board
sorry Patdog - I went back and looked again and it was MUTT - quote is below
(Note: The university ole miss isn't all bad- they have beautiful women, and the university makes for a great ladies' finishing school, providing tMSU engineers with wives for decades now).
candidate for 6-pack remembers but taken from the Northwestern board