Well he said he didn't like slow tempo so I pointed out that Ash went fast. Was just waiting for a response.
Never been more sure
- Thread starter rutgersfan1766
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Twenty years ago we had a coach named Schiano, a leader named Trump, and a victory total of one.
Could history repeat itself?
Okay. And we tried ultra slow tempo Ash 2nd year.
Now your turn.
If you want to cite 1 year of an offense as a reason not to run a particular offense, it's not going to help you.
We tried to implement an up-tempo offense for approx 6 months with a roster that was recruited for a completely different style. Then when it (predictably) went bad the 1st year - HC Ash threw the baby (up tempo scoring offense) out with the bathwater (OC Mehringer), got scared, and reverted back to conservative meathead football with OC Kill.
Instead of taking the time to rebuild the roster and actually implement something new, we completely reversed course.
Some fun facts:
Average TOP:
Ash Year 1: 27:20 (#106)
Ash Year 2: 28:03 (#106) I'm sure that 43 seconds of game time really helped the defense stay fresh.
Ash Year 3: 28:54 (#89)
Ash Year 4: 30:16 (#58)
HC Ash was actually improving TOP of each year
https://www.teamrankings.com/colleg...-time-of-possession-net-of-ot?date=2018-01-08
Average TOP:
Ash Year 1: 27:20 (#106)
Ash Year 2: 28:03 (#106) I'm sure that 43 seconds of game time really helped the defense stay fresh.
Ash Year 3: 28:54 (#89)
Ash Year 4: 30:16 (#58)
HC Ash was actually improving TOP of each year
https://www.teamrankings.com/colleg...-time-of-possession-net-of-ot?date=2018-01-08
It was a very bad sign at Ash's first home again against Howard 14-0. Our office rented the party deck, and I was getting lambasted by my co-workers, as I arranged the gig.
It got worse. There was this gem of a play sequence against Iowa:
1st & Goal at IOWA 3
(5:53 - 2nd) Tylin Oden run for 1 yd to the Iowa 22nd & Goal at IOWA 2
(5:53 - 2nd) Tylin Oden run for no gain to the Iowa 23rd & Goal at IOWA 2
(5:53 - 2nd) Chris Laviano run for a loss of 1 yard to the Iowa 3- (2:10 - 2nd) Timeout RUTGERS, clock 02:10
4th & Goal at IOWA 3
(2:10 - 2nd) Chris Laviano run for 2 yds to the Iowa 1
Just for fun-points scored/game and wins:
Ash Year 1: 23.5
Ash Year 2: 21.8
Ash Year 3: 25.7
Ash Year 4: 19.9
Other than a blip in year 3, which turned out to be a dead cat bounce, only Ash could increase TOP and score fewer points. That guy was a real winner. He also knew how to alienate donors. The only positive was his wife, as she was very nice.
We do absolutely have some miserable fans. However, IMO, just because someone might not share your high level of optimism, that doesn't mean they are miserable.
I'm very hopeful, but not optimistic at all at this point. I don't think being quietly pessimistic or realistic is miserable behavior. It's just a different viewpoint. I think the truly miserable fans are the ones who go out of their way to be loudly and repeatedly super-negative while constantly insulting the coaches or players.
Year 1: OC "Mohawk" who needed to be run out of town for crying and having a haircut
Year 2: Veteran HC who knew what it took to win in the Big Ten (despite not calling plays or running an offense in 20 years)
Year 3: Instant impact, greatest OC in RU history
Year 4: Instant impact, greatest OC in RU history
Everyone bashes HC Ash but most (not me) were fawning over his OC hires and thought he was on the right direction. Funny how that turned out.
Rutgers football performed better under Julie Hermann (18-20) who inherited Kyle than under Pat Hobbs (21-61), even though Pat has been able to choose his coaches with a bankroll a lot fatter than Julie's.
Respectfully, that's a weird way of couching things for the ADs, as if they have a direct impact.
First, Flood was riding the coattails of Greg's recruiting, which diminished under Flood and continued until cratering under Ash. Yes, Ash had a couple of bright spots in Melton and Pacheco, but that's the blind squirrel finding a nut once in a while, and not really attributed to him. Those two players wanted to stay home and represent.
So that explains the bad record under Hobbs, as things descended badly under Ash to the point where any new head coach was not going to win much in years 1 and 2.
With that said, I was surprised that Greg kept on some of Ash's coaches who had little college experience, and while SG was "hot" because he was a Jersey guy who lit it up at Princeton, I was not on board with him having only 1 year of experience with Gundy, who more than likely had a big hand in running the offense at Oklahoma State.
I see what you did with years 3 and 4, you wisenheimer!
Agreed. I look at this season like 2004 under Schiano 1.0 - measurable improvement, and that season probably would have had another win or two without the accident in which we lost 3 DB's after the Temple win.
No question. Yes, I am as impatient as others and frustrated with the results, but let's not forget Ash's last 2 years he had a grand total of 3 wins and was 0-9 each season in Big 10 play.
We are very good at our best sequence. sometimes we run it fast, sometimes we run it slow. We probably do it better than any other team in the B1G. It goes run, run, pass, punt. One of these years we will score some points with it 
I was making a joke. Maybe a little bit true.
I was making a joke. Maybe a little bit true.
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True but nobody (else) is even doing ultra slow tempo anymore. Denying the other team time to score doesn't work in an era when teams only need 37 seconds to do it.
Ummmm .. Julie’s Coach was playing with Greg’s recruiting classes .. Hobbs had the putrid Flood and Ash recruiting.. We got better but barely.
After Schiano built the program the first time. Now he’s building the program for the second time, under far more difficult circumstances, namely, a Big Ten schedule.
We’re not everyone else. We’re Rutgers.
Just because you play a fast tempo offense, doesn’t mean you will execute a fast temp offense successfully.
You play the style which gives you the best chance of winning. That’s what we are doing, because we don’t have the personnel to do otherwise. We are still short talent on the offensive side of the ball but we are making progress. This will not help us beat OSU, PSU, or Michigan, but it should give us a chance vs everyone else.
Ash could have run the up tempo offense for 10 years, and he was never going to be able to recruit the players to successfully run it.
Players make the offense. The offense doesn’t make the players.
When we run a QB on the field who everyone in the stands believes has a chance to drive us 80 yards every time we have the ball…that’s when the perception of this program changes.
Most the time he won’t, there will be penalties, drops, poor calls, mistakes, miscommunications, you name it.
Regardless of the failures, the innateness and awareness a QB like that brings would be massive for our fans.
Let’s be real, a functional offense line is just as important, but that QB is what the fans need.
WTF QB play is killing us and will continue to kill us until that guy shows up.
We aren’t beating anyone in our league except bottom dwellers like ourselves with defense and a running game only… the model no longer works
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Our first year in the big ten we had an established QB and that got us off to a fair start. A good QB would fix a lot
If Knute Rockne or Nick Saban were on our sideline, the best player on the team wouldn't be the punter.
All true. I would add that Ash and his offensive coaches emphasized the superficial elements of modern football offense instead of the fundamentals. It's not enough to not huddle, snap the ball quickly, line up in the shotgun, and stare at the sideline. You have to do things like teach your QB to read a defender, throw passes in the same stadium as his receivers, and emphasize actually blocking people. That's what makes any offense work. None of those things were even taught, let alone mastered.
In all fairness, the QBs got a lot of experience reading the numbers of DL and LBs , usually staring up that them lying on the field.
That just killed me: you had 3 stud running backs in Martin, Hicks and Goodwin, but you're gonna run a pretzel stick QB all of 180 pounds into the line?
Not saying that it was necessarily wise (or not), but the idea was to have an extra blocker for the runner. So it was either run the QB or replace the QB with someone else who can run or block.
True, but run someone at QB who isn't 6'5" and 180 pounds. Do a direct snap to any of those 3 RB's who all ran around 5'11", 215 pounds.
I hear ya. But then it becomes very predictable. It's kind of a damned if you do, damned if you don't thing. I'm guessing they tried different versions in practice and went with what worked the best. I mean, I think we did sometimes see the "Wild Knight" too back then, no?
I think this year will be tough because neither QB is very good (lack accuracy), have no targets of note at WR, and not enough quality OL depth. I think at best we may 5-7, but more likely another 4-8. I think next year (2024) will be the turn the corner year once the OL settles in and we can use the OL depth to be a run focused offense and have the QBs be game managers as the new crop of WRs develop. After that I think we get to next level once Surace gets here as I do think he will have accuracy and smarts to run offense well. All this presumes the D continues to build from where it is now (strong upward trajectory).
Let’s be realistic, becoming competitive with the middle of the pack in the big ten really becomes the first step, if we recruit at or above those teams and obviously win a reasonable number of games that leads to better recruiting and hopefully the next step in terms of program growth. At this point, until you have three or four years of comparable recruiting ( PSU, OSU, and Michigan) we are not going to beat these teams, at this point they simply have a roster of far better personnel. To think some coach is going to show up at Rutgers and in a short time become Competitve with the top teams in the league is naive and or uniformed.
If you want to find fault with Greg, his first staff was inadaquate to for the task at hand, and the the program did not make the significant strides that were necessary. It seems that this has finally been fixed, and hopefully this will be reflected with a better record. This was never going to quick, at this level you can’t outcoach a significant talent disparity and you can’t get significantly better talent until you begin to show W/L improvement.
If you want to find fault with Greg, his first staff was inadaquate to for the task at hand, and the the program did not make the significant strides that were necessary. It seems that this has finally been fixed, and hopefully this will be reflected with a better record. This was never going to quick, at this level you can’t outcoach a significant talent disparity and you can’t get significantly better talent until you begin to show W/L improvement.
This is an interesting take . You didn’t have this take when ash was here though
That clueless clown has been using the same worthless narrative for the last 8 years.
Makes for great comedic relief.
1. There is not enough data for your take on the QB, which IMO is premature.
2. Same for WR. Think that in no particular order, Rochelle, Long, and the two D2 transfers will be OK.
3. This is the year the OL should start to gel.
4. Your take on Surace is way too premature. Besides, don't sleep on Ajani Sheppard!!!
5. Agree with strong upward trajectory!
This IS a pivotal year.
So I guess that firing her was a mistake? This could be your most ridiculous post yet and that's saying a lot. I notice how she was so quickly snapped up by another school.
She can now find you a nice split level on a quarter acre in the Louisville area if that's what you need.
Don't get me wrong. I sure hope I am wrong on my 1 to 3. Agree not enough snaps on 1, but so far, not terribly impressive. On 2, Long has looked good at WR and Rochelle as a runner. Rest is just on paper so far so unknown. On 3, I think it will gel, but I think depth is still at least a year away.
On 4, from what I've seen on all of them throwing, something just different about Surace. That said, QB coach I am not except on Monday mornings
.I like the recruits Schiano is targeting for 5. I am glad we are looking outside of NJ for talent. There is a lot of talent outside of NJ so we don't need to be help hostage by the top players here. Maybe they will start looking at us regularly as a serious destination in a couple of years.