New coach

Moogy

All-Conference
Jul 28, 2017
3,270
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For me, unless Kraft pulls a rabbit out of the hat with someone stellar but way off radar, any hire that isn’t DeBoer is not worth firing Franklin for IMO.
Good lord. You wanted Franklin gone for a LONG time now. Well before this season. You had no idea who we could get, but you didn't care.

Now, suddenly, it's "basically, if he isn't getting one single particular guy in the universe ... who has no reason to want to come here and was never on anyone's radar as a potential hire ... it wasn't worth it to fire him!"

You have to have some kind of integrity, even if it's on a goofy internet message board.
 

LB99

Heisman
Oct 27, 2021
8,450
11,597
113
I agree about Kraft being put on notice but who has the guts: President, BOT? Perhaps the Big $ boosters could apply pressure to run Kraft off?
My problem with Kraft all is who are the quality coaches he has hired at any stops?
Perhaps the PSU baseball coach? Did he hire the PSU Women's Volleyball coach or was that a push from Russ Rose? She has been very successful, already won a Natty. This year rebuild but has a top flight class coming in for next season.
Any I'm missing someone?
Do ADs have a buyout? Or can he be fired with no strings attached? Please tell me the latter.
 

LB99

Heisman
Oct 27, 2021
8,450
11,597
113
I’m not negative at all.

I think the program is one of the few that has the resources to win a national title, and one of only 4 in the “North” (stealing that from Urban) that can realistically expect to contend for titles on a year in year out basis.

That’s not negative, that’s really positive. I was there for 2000-03, I get how bad it can be. Yes, Joe more than wore out his welcome. He stayed too long by a while.

Even in its best years, it used to be that Penn State should realistically expect to be right there once every 4 seasons. I don’t think that’s unrealistic even today. Take it to 6, ok, times changed. Heck, make it 8.

Now how in the world can you contend even once every 50 years if you can’t beat the very profile of teams you’ll need to beat multiple times? It’s not in the cards, and I think trying something different for the chance to do better is worth it if you absolutely 100% believe you can’t get there in the present status.

It’s not negativity, 7-5 a few years and then try someone else would stink, then move on again, nothing lost. We’re not just killing it year in, year out as is. We’re having stinkers in there too.
You’re not negative. lol. You spend day after day piling on Franklin and continuing to complain about the program. You can’t seem to find any positives whatsoever during Franklin’s time here or at least anything you will admit to. That’s a heckuva way to live. If that’s not being negative, then I’d hate to see what your negative is. I can’t wait to see what your take on the new hire will be.
 
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donaldfair71

Senior
Jul 4, 2005
704
767
93
You’re not negative. lol. You spend day after day piling on Franklin and continuing to complain about the program. You can’t seem to find any positives whatsoever during Franklin’s time here or at least anything you will admit to. That’s a heckuva way to live. If that’s not being negative, then I’d hate to see what your negative is. I can’t wait to see what your take on the new hire will be.
Franklin positives:

He brought the program into the modern era, and for a hire that at the time could have gone a million ways, he was the right guy.
He’s a very nice guy. I had the chance to meet him, along with several assistants over the years, as they’ve recruited kids in my building. He’s a guy you’re not unhappy if one of your daughters marry him
He was very loyal to his players and their families, almost to a fault.

I’ve said on this very site it’s too bad it didn’t work out because, outside never ever beating the best teams in the league, he’s just about everything you’re looking for to coach Penn State.

But never beating, and often times not really showing up competitively on one side of the ball or the other, against the best teams in your league it’s a deal breaker. I won’t hear “well no one beats Ohio State and Michigan”, because he was good enough to be damn close. Any offense and he wins in Columbus in 23. Any defense and he beats them in 22 in SC. He, through his doing, had them good enough. But it was like there became a block there, perception became reality, and I believe it’s partly why they fell apart post -Oregon. HE finally started to believe it.
It’s not unlike 100% wanting kids someday and falling in love with someone devoutly against having kids someday. It just wasn’t going to work out, I sincerely believe, and I believe he believed it as well.

I’m trying to figure out how believing the program can do better is negative, but those saying the best the program should expect is getting to a 12 team and that’s all, that’s positive?
 
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Midnighter

Heisman
Jan 22, 2021
11,104
17,911
113
Um. Weren’t you one of the biggest Franklin bashers here? Especially in the game day threads?

Yeah, but I’m on record as being pragmatic too. When Franklin was fired I said it wasn’t a good move . That said - seems clear this break up was inevitable with Franklin’s extension being denied. I do not think Franklin could have saved this season but so far Kraft’s big success has been getting other coaches pay raises and extensions.
 

PSUForever

Senior
Feb 17, 2007
741
702
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We’re supposed to be content with losing to every single good team in our league forever.
To many on this board it is unrealistic to expect Penn State to ever win a NC So they are okay with BGJ and his incessant losing in big games because we can't do any better. Such a loser mentality. And for the record we can and will win a NC in the next ten years.
 

WVilleLion23

All-Conference
Oct 27, 2022
1,085
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To many on this board it is unrealistic to expect Penn State to ever win a NC So they are okay with BGJ and his incessant losing in big games because we can't do any better. Such a loser mentality. And for the record we can and will win a NC in the next ten years.
We can do better and we can also do worse.

Unfortunately, not only is it doubtful we win a NC in next 10 years, we will also likely have 2 new HCs within next 10 seasons.
 

PSUForever

Senior
Feb 17, 2007
741
702
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We can do better and we can also do worse.

Unfortunately, not only is it doubtful we win a NC in next 10 years, we will also likely have 2 new HCs within next 10 seasons.
A very negative outlook. So when Ryan Day bolts for the NFl and they need a new coach will you be so negative about their future?
 

Moogy

All-Conference
Jul 28, 2017
3,270
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Um. Weren’t you one of the biggest Franklin bashers here? Especially in the game day threads?

Yup. He wanted Franklin gone, gone, gone. He was like laKa. Mocked him relentlessly. Then, when we were going to make the playoffs, he pulled back a little, with the condescending logic of "well, with expanded playoffs in play now, we don't have to be that good to make it in, so I can tolerate him ... but I'll still mock him." Then he wanted him fired again. And now the tune is changing.

A lot of petulant children who stormed off and ran away from home in a huff are now suddenly realizing it's scary out in the big bad world and they may not have anywhere to go.
 

donaldfair71

Senior
Jul 4, 2005
704
767
93
I wouldn’t want to be considered a “fanboy” or a terrible fan if I support the coach…that’s the worst thing you can do on this board I’ve learned.
Here’s the humorous part to us old guys is it’s the exact same discussion we had 20 years ago on the old Penn Live boards over Joe.

The Happy Jacks were insistent we could never do better than Joe and his staff.

The Sad Jacks were ready to move on.

We’ll be having it forever.
 
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LB99

Heisman
Oct 27, 2021
8,450
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113
Franklin positives:

He brought the program into the modern era, and for a hire that at the time could have gone a million ways, he was the right guy.
He’s a very nice guy. I had the chance to meet him, along with several assistants over the years, as they’ve recruited kids in my building. He’s a guy you’re not unhappy if one of your daughters marry him
He was very loyal to his players and their families, almost to a fault.

I’ve said on this very site it’s too bad it didn’t work out because, outside never ever beating the best teams in the league, he’s just about everything you’re looking for to coach Penn State.

But never beating, and often times not really showing up competitively on one side of the ball or the other, against the best teams in your league it’s a deal breaker. I won’t hear “well no one beats Ohio State and Michigan”, because he was good enough to be damn close. Any offense and he wins in Columbus in 23. Any defense and he beats them in 22 in SC. He, through his doing, had them good enough. But it was like there became a block there, perception became reality, and I believe it’s partly why they fell apart post -Oregon. HE finally started to believe it.
It’s not unlike 100% wanting kids someday and falling in love with someone devoutly against having kids someday. It just wasn’t going to work out, I sincerely believe, and I believe he believed it as well.

I’m trying to figure out how believing the program can do better is negative, but those saying the best the program should expect is getting to a 12 team and that’s all, that’s positive?
So, you have had positive interactions with the guy and generally have a good perspective towards him, but you feel the need to log in here everyday for hours on end and bash him. Interesting.
 

Ludd

All-Conference
Oct 12, 2021
2,677
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Here’s the humorous part to us old guys is it’s the exact same discussion we had 20 years ago on the old Penn Live boards over Joe.

The Happy Jacks were insistent we could never do better than Joe and his staff.

The Sad Jacks were ready to move on.

We’ll be having it forever.
Unrealistic expectations can cause that.
 

LB99

Heisman
Oct 27, 2021
8,450
11,597
113
Here’s the humorous part to us old guys is it’s the exact same discussion we had 20 years ago on the old Penn Live boards over Joe.

The Happy Jacks were insistent we could never do better than Joe and his staff.

The Sad Jacks were ready to move on.

We’ll be having it forever.
Where were you on that discussion? I’m curious.
 

WVilleLion23

All-Conference
Oct 27, 2022
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So positive, everyone else round here.
Bless the naive hopefully hearts of those of you that truly think we are going to be able to keep up in the NIL arms race. We are already behind and it is going to get way worse.

There are at least a handful of schools that have a min of 50 big athletic donors that will each drop $5M if asked. If you think other Texas schools are going to stand by and let TT do what they are doing g, unchecked…wrong. When those SEC Texas schools respond if you think the other SEC powers are going to let that go unchecked…wrong. And we are already way behind OSU NIL. And Oregon, etc.

Reality is going to be a slap of reality in terms of us not being able to keep up and it is going to suck.
 

donaldfair71

Senior
Jul 4, 2005
704
767
93
So, you have had positive interactions with the guy and generally have a good perspective towards him, but you feel the need to log in here everyday for hours on end and bash him. Interesting.
I’ve never bashed him personally. Not once.

Once he’s at Tech and he’s in my building again and I see him, I promise you one thing he’ll laugh about is how much happier he is not in State College.

Believing someone has maximized what they can do somewhat isn’t negative unless one is looking for it to be negative. The guy at Apple in between the Steve Jobs eras, he was still brilliant and he was just fine in life. These guys are paid CEO of Fortune 500 Company salaries, trust me, they’ll be ok and they’re the first people to admit such things.
 

WVilleLion23

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Oct 27, 2022
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A very negative outlook. So when Ryan Day bolts for the NFl and they need a new coach will you be so negative about their future?
Why would I be? They are indeed an elite program and they are extremely well funded. That opening would easily be a top 3-5 one.

They will just reload and reload very quick. We are not in the same position, not even close.
 

donaldfair71

Senior
Jul 4, 2005
704
767
93
Where were you on that discussion? I’m curious.
I was ready for Joe to leave after 06, when word started getting out he wasn’t actively recruiting and was spending most days coaching from home.
Would have been ok leaving any time after 2000 though, the second half of 01 and 02 bought him some time then 05 happened. But I was really thinking it’s probably time at 06/07.
 
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LB99

Heisman
Oct 27, 2021
8,450
11,597
113
I’ve never bashed him personally. Not once.

Once he’s at Tech and he’s in my building again and I see him, I promise you one thing he’ll laugh about is how much happier he is not in State College.

Believing someone has maximized what they can do somewhat isn’t negative unless one is looking for it to be negative. The guy at Apple in between the Steve Jobs eras, he was still brilliant and he was just fine in life. These guys are paid CEO of Fortune 500 Company salaries, trust me, they’ll be ok and they’re the first people to admit such things.
It’s more about you than it is him.
 

RolexKong

Sophomore
Aug 15, 2025
110
101
43
Bless the naive hopefully hearts of those of you that truly think we are going to be able to keep up in the NIL arms race. We are already behind and it is going to get way worse.

There are at least a handful of schools that have a min of 50 big athletic donors that will each drop $5M if asked. If you think other Texas schools are going to stand by and let TT do what they are doing g, unchecked…wrong. When those SEC Texas schools respond if you think the other SEC powers are going to let that go unchecked…wrong. And we are already way behind OSU NIL. And Oregon, etc.

Reality is going to be a slap of reality in terms of us not being able to keep up and it is going to suck.
Fifty donors that will contribute $5mm? That's a quarter of a billion. Annually? No. All at one time? Not likely. Over and extended period of time? Maybe.
 

MacNit

All-Conference
Oct 12, 2021
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Imagine he’l gat axed before fulfilling those 6 years.
I think what many are missing, is the new reality of D1A Professional College Football - PSU completely destabilized the program when they fired Franklin. They are going to lose virtually all of their NIL-worthy players regardless of who they hire. It is not likely enough to just hire a "good coach" - DeBoer at Bama is an excellent example. Bama went 9-4 last year and is facing another year where they are "okay", but certainly not elite and likely not a playoff team (ND was the highest ranked 2-loss team in the last CFP Rankings - they were #9. ND will likely move to #8, but OU is probably moving to #9 or #10. At least 1 ACC team is making it and G5 Team.).

The reality is that PSU has put themselves in a position where they almost have to hire a both "a good coach" and a coach who can bring a core group of players (i.e., a coach of an existing team) if they want any shot at relevancy over the next several years. If PSU can't do this, they're going to be in serious danger of long-term irrelevancy a la UNL. NIL recruiting is way, way, way more important element of current D1A CFB, than HS recruiting, especially when you've completely de-stabilized and blown-up your rooster as PSU has - Cignetti has proven this quite dramatically (and DeBoer has proven that just bringing in a great coach - with no players - into a destabilized rooster, results in a severe dropoff of producut - 4 losses last year no playoff.... blowout loss this year to a bad FSU team and now a loss to an Oklahoma team was not a great team and had been blownout by a not great Texas team.).

Nope, it's pretty clear that given the position PSU has put themselves in, they are not only going to have to "buy" a great coach, but "buy" his team as well. If a coach can't bring a large group of players with him, their value is greatly diminished as nobody is going to pay a coach $12 million a year for a re-building project that could take 3 or 4 years and potentially never at all given the realities of the modern "pay-to-play" era. (IOW, all these people talking about available resources and where PSU stacks up, are utterly full of dung - PSU has plenty of resources as they proved on what they spent on Knowles.... but it really comes down to who is willing to spend what on who now as Cignetti and Indiana have proven. Indiana was a crap football program historically - that mattered ZERO in today's "pay-to-play" Professionalization of CFB environment. ZERO! Bama proves the opposite, you can become an "also-ran" very quickly in today's environment. Anybody can become competitive if they are willing, and able, to spend the money, but just spending the money guarantees nothing - it comes down to the quality, and "value", of what you spent.).
So, if Franklin was still coaching, all would be well?

lololololololololol!
 
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MacNit

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Oct 12, 2021
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I didn't advocate for firing Franklin.

No, I don't know what the future might have looked like had he been given another couple of years, but I don't see how it looks better now.

The "home run hire" the fanboyz were clamoring about isn't happening, so other than a long uncertain rebuild you tell me what's coming. Maybe just rinse and repeat?
You already know the outcome? Why watch the games?
 

MacNit

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Many in this fan base won’t give him 2-3 seasons to turn it around. The Fire Franklin chants started at halftime of the 2016 Minny game. Ironically, that was the game that turned the whole program around.
It did? Who all did we beat in tne last decade? Villanova? Bermuda U?
 
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Fifty donors that will contribute $5mm? That's a quarter of a billion. Annually? No. All at one time? Not likely. Over and extended period of time? Maybe.

These people are full of crap - there are not programs anywhere where boosters are going to fund these types of payrolls every year with zero return on investment. This is where CFB differs from Pro - professional teams generate revenues that fund returns to investors/ownership. The people who say these things are basically naive morons who have very little understanding of the real world and how it works.

These twits are followed very closely by the morons who believe there are tons of coaches who can make the National Playoffs 70% of the time (Franklin finished Top 12 in the Final CFP 7 of the last 10 years including this year. His 7 of 9 coming into the year of qualifying for a CFP Controlled Games was better than all but 5 Programs!) - but there are all kinds of teams winning more..... PSU will easily win a NC within the next 10 years.... blah, blah, blah. You can't win a Championship if you don't qualify for the Playoffs.

Their notion that PSU should hire a $12 million a year coach with zero expectations attached is staggering given what Kraft just did. Look at Alabama's experience and the big name, ultra high-paid coach they brought in inherited an intact roster that was as elite in terms of "blue chippers" as any in the nation - he quickly took Alabama to also ran status in the SEC going 17-6 in his first 23 at Bama (0 for 2 in getting to the SEC Championship and soon to be 0 for 2 in the National Playoff), but PSU would make the Playoffs every year an win NCs with this guy and a completely obliterated roster??????? These people are legends in their know-it-all, fantasy/wanna-be HC/GM legends in their own mind world. They know so much more about football, coaching and winning than Franklin, Knowles and Kotelnicki combined - the only reason they aren't winning National Championships or Superbowls somewhere on an every year basis is because their other-worldly abilities, knowlege and talent hasn't been realized and they haven't been given the chance they deserve....... bunch of laughable tools who don't understand the probability that PSU will be significantly worse over the next 10 years than they were over the last 10 years given what Kraft has done here in the way he has handled this situation with no plan as to how he was going to bring in a new coach giving him the greatest possibility of success - he has done the opposite and handled the situation in a spur of the moment, emotion-driven way that gives the new coach a very low probability of succeeding in the near or long term.
 
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MacNit

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Oct 12, 2021
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He was .712, would have made 5 of ten playoffs and no Natty so I think the new guy fails if he doesn't do at least that much better - maybe cut the playoff requirement to 8 out of 10
Franklin absolutely ruined thee mental and physical toughness of this program. New coach should get a year or two to reverse that and get back to winning a few big games. And dare I say, a few tough road games (Franklin has zero in 11+ years).
 
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Jun 26, 2025
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Franklin absolutely ruined thee mental and physical toughness of this program. New coach should get a year or two to reverse that and get back to winning a few big games. And dare I say, a few tough road games (Franklin has zero in 11+ years).

LMAO, the reality is that Franklin Finished Top 12 in the Final CFP Rankings 7 of the last 10 seasons even if you include this year (not 5 of 10 including this year as the post you responded to stated). The chances the "next head coach" gets to 1, let alone 7, over the next 10 years is remote. But you keep telling us how easy it is to finish Top 12 in the Final CFP Rankings 70% of the time - it's so easy, that's the reason only like 6 programs nationally accomplished it over the last decade and only PSU and duhO$U out of the b1g teams to do it (including the new ex-PAC10 teams). It's just so easy to do - some of you tools are so absurd it's beyond laughable.