News out of Guilford County

[UNCATC]

Dudley forfeits entire season, placed on probation.

7 total teams found in GCS probe that had some sort of paperwork violation.

Dudley, Andrews, and SE Guilford reprimanded, fined and placed on probation.

Other 4 schools receiving fines. If this probe goes state-wide, there will be a LOT of money coming in to the NCHSAA. Most coaches/ADs did not even know about the post-game paperwork (online) changes this year.

 

[swett2victory]

GSO
is this true?

 

[hokiemtc]

Like I've been saying all along, this is just the beginning. Expect the next big news to break by Christmas.

 

[flag_em]

http://www.news-record.com/sports/high_school/seven-guilford-high-school-football-programs-face-fines-probation/article_9ab06a5e-74d7-11e4-848f-dbe8fc7ecc88.html

 

[GoNtheDistance]

in the cases at Dudley and Andrews in particular, both coaches should lose their job. I won't speak on Dudley's situation because I frankly don't know much about their coach but know that he played the "i misinterpreted the rules" card as it pertains to the 8 quarter rule. In addition, they have bigger issues coming their way with regards to additional sanctions on them but I'll let that play itself out. For Andrews, their coach didn't fill out 8 quarter paperwork at all in 9 of the 10 regular season games this year. That is inexecusable. he isn't a new coach and has been the head coach at Andrews for nearly 10 years now. He knows the administrative requirements required by the NCHSAA. His blatant disregard for the rules as outlined by the state should result in his termination as their head coach. I get the folks that will say it's just a technicality, it didn't improve nor hinder the outcome on the field, however, it's a perfect example of his ability as a leader and mirrors his inability to instill discpline within the kids within that program.

...steps off soap box.

 

[portcity FB]

Originally posted by GoNtheDistance:
in the cases at Dudley and Andrews in particular, both coaches should lose their job. I won't speak on Dudley's situation because I frankly don't know much about their coach but know that he played the "i misinterpreted the rules" card as it pertains to the 8 quarter rule. In addition, they have bigger issues coming their way with regards to additional sanctions on them but I'll let that play itself out. For Andrews, their coach didn't fill out 8 quarter paperwork at all in 9 of the 10 regular season games this year. That is inexecusable. he isn't a new coach and has been the head coach at Andrews for nearly 10 years now. He knows the administrative requirements required by the NCHSAA. His blatant disregard for the rules as outlined by the state should result in his termination as their head coach. I get the folks that will say it's just a technicality, it didn't improve nor hinder the outcome on the field, however, it's a perfect example of his ability as a leader and mirrors his inability to instill discpline within the kids within that program.

...steps off soap box.

Sounds like these forms were not being checked in the past. Who checks them and why were they not doing thier job? I would assume the coach knew he was suppose to but didn't since it was never checked????? Ugly!

 

[BlueandGold34]

Originally posted by GoNtheDistance:
in the cases at Dudley and Andrews in particular, both coaches should lose their job. I won't speak on Dudley's situation because I frankly don't know much about their coach but know that he played the "i misinterpreted the rules" card as it pertains to the 8 quarter rule. In addition, they have bigger issues coming their way with regards to additional sanctions on them but I'll let that play itself out. For Andrews, their coach didn't fill out 8 quarter paperwork at all in 9 of the 10 regular season games this year. That is inexecusable. he isn't a new coach and has been the head coach at Andrews for nearly 10 years now. He knows the administrative requirements required by the NCHSAA. His blatant disregard for the rules as outlined by the state should result in his termination as their head coach. I get the folks that will say it's just a technicality, it didn't improve nor hinder the outcome on the field, however, it's a perfect example of his ability as a leader and mirrors his inability to instill discpline within the kids within that program.

...steps off soap box.

Nice job on the box

Couldn't agree more. Since when is " I didn't understand" a defense.

 

[Godevilsgo]

Pure disregard and I will add pure laziness. Once someone gets by with it, they think no big deal from then on. There is more to coaching than showing up on the field. A lot of peoples butts are going to get tight for the rest of the year. Its a big stinky mark on their future as a coach somewhere else.

 

[cvaughan598]

Not that it is ANY excuse... But Andrew's AD left for Parkland. I don't know if they hired or promoted someone with previous experience. The AD typically assists the HC with that paperwork.

 

[newbie]

Originally posted by cvaughan598:
Not that it is ANY excuse... But Andrew's AD left for Parkland. I don't know if they hired or promoted someone with previous experience. The AD typically assists the HC with that paperwork.

AD do not assist ANYONE with this SIMPLE paper work. And normally you must submit this Pre-paper work to the Conference President. And the Post Paper is done online at the NCHSAA website. You cannot get away with the post paper work. Any also you must put down the players name and grade on the post paper work on the website.

 

[cvaughan598]

Newbie, everywhere I have been, the AD assisted us with this process.

 

[newbie]

Originally posted by cvaughan598:
Newbie, everywhere I have been, the AD assisted us with this process.

Assist, you mean signed the forms? You might have some that will assist. I am just saying you do not need them to get them done. But they should be checking for sure. I agree with you.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

to address the statement about Andrews AD. The Andrews AD left before the season started and the new guy had experience as an AD. There's no excuse for it.

The negligence and liability is alarming. Without filing pre game paperwork, we could have rolled a kid out there with a condition or injury that wasn't documented and worse case he gets seriously hurt in the game on Friday night, likely when it had already been decided. You think his parents would sit idle and not pursue legal action? Who knows but they'd have a helluva negligent claim against the school, the county and the state.

I don't think there's any way that the Andrews coach can keep his job. I really don't.

 

[Godevilsgo]

+1 More like he is just lazy than trying to gain an advantage. Sad for all the kids who bust their azz all summer and fall for a coach to reap the glamour and have his name in the paper every week. Guess he gets to make headlines one more time.

 

[BlueandGold34]

Originally posted by GoNtheDistance:
to address the statement about Andrews AD. The Andrews AD left before the season started and the new guy had experience as an AD. There's no excuse for it.

The negligence and liability is alarming. Without filing pre game paperwork, we could have rolled a kid out there with a condition or injury that wasn't documented and worse case he gets seriously hurt in the game on Friday night, likely when it had already been decided. You think his parents would sit idle and not pursue legal action? Who knows but they'd have a helluva negligent claim against the school, the county and the state.

I don't think there's any way that the Andrews coach can keep his job. I really don't.

Lets not forget that his initial claim was that he thought the JV season had ended and thus it was OK to let them dress and play that final Friday. Then it was there was confusion between to different rules. He was lying and like most cases the attempt to cover up was far more damning than the initial offense. Clearly he was being negligent the entire time and now we get to find out the rest of story. All this stuff about missing the playoffs and the injustice of it all was simply spin.

 

[GoNtheDistance]

agree blue. in the case of Dudley's coach, he changed his story so many times to cover his own a$$ and got caught regardless.

 

[ross-blue&gold]

It wasn't just Dudley. A $3500 fine for Southeast Guilford.Talk junk about them firing their coach.Sounds kinda stupid doesn't it?

 

[Godevilsgo]

Bigger question is- who is hiring all these negligent coaches and approving the hire? I would fear the lawsuits these coaches could have created for the school systems. Those signatures are a big, big problem. Double dipping in a week could lead to serious concussion trama.

 

[btango]

I think a player should be allowed to dress for the JV game. If he plays he cannot dress for the varsity game. I do not like players playing back to back nights.

 

[btango]

SE Guilford also reporting violations. Many people speculated that it was SEG reported Dudley which caused the investigation.

Southeast Guilford reported seven violations for failing to complete pre-game paperwork and was fined $3,500. Coach Fritz Hessenthaler has been reprimanded and the program placed on probation for one year.

http://www.news-record.com/sports/high_school/seven-guilford-high-school-football-programs-face-fines-probation/article_9ab06a5e-74d7-11e4-848f-dbe8fc7ecc88.html

 

[ross-blue&gold]

The Guilford County Schools Athletic Director , Leigh Hebbard is placing the blame everywhere but himself.

This post was edited on 11/26 10:24 PM by ross-blue&gold

 

[13 ah yeah!]

We have a very demanding AD and a lot of coaches don't understand but this is the reason why! He is in complete control of 8 quarter rule after coach picks the players and has all pre and post 8 quarter documents filed and easy to find and view present and past. AD and coach are responsible and they should both lose their job at every school bc this could have been a very serious issue had something happened to a kid.

 

[Warhead1]

The amount of paperwork that these coaches have to have their players fill out in GCS is INSANE!. Each kid has a Physical, 3 proofs of residence, and a 4 page book that says they are who they say they are just to play. Plus the 8 quarter pre-and-post paper work. Plus have a trainer sign some more paper work. Every HC in Guilford County have to teach a full day and grade papers first. Then keep up with all this paper work is a lot when you start thinking of 80-130 kids on each football team (I know not all are 8 Quarter kids). So before everyone says they should fire all these guys relax.



This post was edited on 11/25 9:11 PM by Warhead1

 

[GoNtheDistance]

I don't disagrew with you about the paperwork war, however, these coaches know the drill. Follow the rules or don't do the 8 quarter dance. Me, I don't even mess with 8 quarter if I'm a coach. It's more hassle than anything on top of the stuff you mentioned.

 

[Warhead1]

Originally posted by GoNtheDistance:
I don't disagrew with you about the paperwork war, however, these coaches know the drill. Follow the rules or don't do the 8 quarter dance. Me, I don't even mess with 8 quarter if I'm a coach. It's more hassle than anything on top of the stuff you mentioned.

I agree with you as well. Especially when you're talking about juniors. IMO no Jr's should ever be on a JV team. I think that some kids need the 8 quarter rule especially QBs.

 

[ghsplaymaker]

No offense but the, "the HC is a teacher and has to teach" is a freaking excuse and a terrible one at that. First, all of the paperwork you are talking about (and by the way it's 2 proofs of residency not 3) should be completed before the first game and most schools start gathering this stuff on the first day of practice. So the head coach and none of his assistants are teaching classes. That gives you 2 WEEKS to get all the paperwork complete for compliance reasons. Not that hard to do, even with 100+ kids. So that myth is dead. Now step 2, you can only have 12 kids total 8 qtr during the year and the paperwork is NOT exactly rocket science. It essentially says that the kid isn't showing any signs of injury and is clear to play on Friday. The parents, trainer, AD and principal must all sign it and the AD keeps it on file. It literally takes us 20 minutes to have all 12 kids checked out by the trainer, clearance given (or denied) and paperwork signed by trainer and sent home to the parents for signatures on Thursday night. Friday morning the kids turn in their paper work and the principal and AD sign off (another 10 minutes). Friday night, the AD or HC goes on to the state website and enters in how many qtrs were played by the 8 qtr kids. Including putting in 0s for the kids that don't play, it takes another 10 minutes. Boom, all that pesky paperwork is done and you are in compliance. But It is too taxing to find 40 minutes to do what you are supposed to do. Not trying to be a butthole Warhead, but the I'm too busy and overwhelmed excuse is very lame when this is a very simple and quick process. Trust me in the 10 years I've done this it has never been an issue anywhere I've been. But again, I've worked for some very hard working and high character guys. Not saying these people arent, but it does smell of laziness...

This post was edited on 11/25 10:42 PM by ghsplaymaker

 

[hokiemtc]

Originally posted by GoNtheDistance:
Me, I don't even mess with 8 quarter if I'm a coach.

There are a few situations that the rule was intended for and where it is useful, so you could keep it in your back pocket for when you need it. For example, if your backup QB was a sophomore. Let him get as many JV snaps as possible, but still have him available to take over on Fridays if your starting QB ever gets hurt.

 

[Mr Honda]

I know they're 3A, but will any of this investigation include Northern Guilford and Johnny "Run The Score Up" Roscoe?

 

[hokiemtc]

Northern Guilford had to forfeit two games in 2013, so I imagine they've already been under the microscope and are trying to play it straight for the time being. Warhead would know if there was any smoke up north.

 

[GSO-Triple5]

Originally posted by mrhonda:
I know they're 3A, but will any of this investigation include Northern Guilford and Johnny "Run The Score Up" Roscoe?

It must be tough drinking vodka and grapefruit juice all day at the Charlotte Car Lot, all the while eating potatoes to mask the scent of said mixed beverage, hustling Granny Goodass to quickly purchase a vehicle while hittin' on her stepsister . You can bet every Honder on your lot that the most gigantic slash microscopic microscopes NASA can muster have been microscope-ing at Northern Guilford, especially with an ex-Mecklenburg Superintendent . Again, I see you have limited knowledge of the situation when you squinting type, " I know they're 3-A, yak, yak, yak. Middle Creek is still number one in my book, although they got juiced in the first round " Northeast Guilford was cited for paper work miscalculations, and they're 3-A, as is Western Guilford, and High Point Andrews is a 2-A squad, cited for similar accusations. P.S. Do you remember when Tommy Knotts used to " run 'em up " at West Charlotte ?

 

[GSO-Triple5]

All this " run 'em up, " Running Clocks, everybody and his brother making the playoffs, watered down split conferences, sign this sit there mumbo jumbo, makes me forlornly forlorn of the days when we duct taped cardboard to our heads for helmets, using freshly cut cedar blocks for shoulder pads, tied securely with hemp rope.

.
.

 

[GSO-Triple5]

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[BlueandGold34]

Originally posted by Warhead1:
The amount of paperwork that these coaches have to have their players fill out in GCS is INSANE!. Each kid has a Physical, 3 proofs of residence, and a 4 page book that says they are who they say they are just to play. Plus the 8 quarter pre-and-post paper work. Plus have a trainer sign some more paper work. Every HC in Guilford County have to teach a full day and grade papers first. Then keep up with all this paper work is a lot when you start thinking of 80-130 kids on each football team (I know not all are 8 Quarter kids). So before everyone says they should fire all these guys relax.




This post was edited on 11/25 9:11 PM by Warhead1

Tired of hearing this excuse. Its what you sign up for and if you aren't willing to do it then don't be a coach because your supposed to be in it for the kids and its those kids that pay the price. This wasn't a " Oops I missed one" situation it was blatant disregard. Is it a demanding job? Sure. So are lots of jobs but you don't just get to decide I'm not going to follow this rule or that rule. If you do you get terminated.

Curious where all these Dudley posters have gone?? The guys that were so sure the coach did no wrong and were so disgruntled with the NCHSAA. Everyone is suddenly very quiet.

 

[13 ah yeah!]

They go where everybody else goes when their wrong! They disappear. It takes a real man to stand accountable and we don't raise real men anymore! We raise excuse making, finger pointing, blame everybody but myself lazy *** men! The government, court system, and we as parents are to blame and this is why we all have to do all the bs paperwork and talk on a message board!

 

[ForsythFootball]

So true I know of atleast four Forsyth County schools have broken the same rule Dudley did with a junior playing both nights or the paper work. It is ridiculous as coaches they know the rules, nobody likes doing paperwork it sucks but is has to be done.

 

[btango]

I supported Dudley but my reasoning was not if they had forfeited other games or not but I do not like the penalty. I think teams should not be forfeiting games for breaking the 8 quarter rule, or X amount of players leaving the bench during a fight, or being ejected et al.

I prefer to see a system that has tiered penalties. The first infraction that is due to a coaches shortcoming would be first something like a playoff game on the road and loss of 25% cut of their portion of the gate. Second infraction would increase the penalty. In Dudley's case they may forfeiting or it could be no home playoff games, no cut of the playoff gates, and the coach is not allowed to coach the team any further this season. If a team is forfeiting for playing a junior on JV and varsity or the eight quarter rule the JV game is where the advantage was truely gained that season.

In Albemarle's case this year, they played two ineligible players all year. My understanding is one did not pass to the next grade from last year and one turned 19 in August. They played every game. Definite advantage for them, they would probably forfeit. Another option would be players removed, seed them by their record, no home playoff games, no gate cut, and the coach is not allowed to coach the team during the playoffs. The coach and school would be on probation until the end of the following season.

Several years ago Cummings forfeited numerous games and barely made the playoffs. They went onto win the state title. That first round playoff opponent had a good season and their reward was a home game against Cummings which had a losing record on paper but was a monster on the field. Albemarle nearly made the 1A playoffs this season with one win. (I think if two teams lost instead of winning the last week they would have made it.) They would have played on the road at the number one seed. Congrats on a great season, here come the Bulldogs.

Fighting / ejections would cause the players involved to be suspended for multiple games but not go against the team.

The answer for why we have expanded playoffs is "to allow more student/athletes to participate". Well, let them participate instead of booting them out of the playoffs.


This post was edited on 11/26 2:26 PM by btango

 

[1whoknows]

Originally posted by ForsythFootball:
So true I know of atleast four Forsyth County schools have broken the same rule Dudley did with a junior playing both nights or the paper work. It is ridiculous as coaches they know the rules, nobody likes doing paperwork it sucks but is has to be done.

Can you proved that it was 4 schools? You worked at 4 schools? I mean, the only person that would know about paperwork is the person at that school or if you are at the school where the paper work should be sent in. Every conference have a location that they must send their forms into. Now if you are the conference president or work at the school the conference president resides that the forms must be sent to. By all means, tell those school principals and let them deal with it.

It is hard for me to imagine, that anyone let this go on this LONG. I mean, ADs meet monthly. You cannot tell me that as a conference president, each month a settle reminder in the meeting would be "Guys as of right now I have only received 8 quarter forms from 6 high schools. You need to remind your coaches, if they are 8 quartering anyone, these forms MUST be completed, THIS is a MUST." So at no time a conversation like this could have not taken place?

Can someone tell us, who did you all send your Pre-Participation forms into? And did this person actually check them or just had them filed by a secretary?

I am sure if you check around the state it is Plenty of more schools in violation. I have no doubt. There will be more check and balances put in place next season for sure. Assuming grown ups will do what they are suppose to do are over.

 

[PrinceOfDudley]

Originally posted by Blue and Gold22:

Curious where all these Dudley posters have gone?? The guys that were so sure the coach did no wrong and were so disgruntled with the NCHSAA. Everyone is suddenly very quiet.

I'm still here and have been on the boards for several years. I never gave any comments as I did not have all of the facts relating to the situation. I'm guessing most of the people that did comment did not have all of the pertinent facts either. Rhetorical question as most fans and supporters of their school would have probably come to similar conclusions under the circumstances. Enjoy the playoffs!

 

[bearsfan83]

Who cares Fire them all !!! They cheated and knew they were doing it!! Disgraced the students fans and schools!! Nuff said!!

 

[btango]

Originally posted by 1whoknows:

Originally posted by ForsythFootball:
So true I know of atleast four Forsyth County schools have broken the same rule Dudley did with a junior playing both nights or the paper work. It is ridiculous as coaches they know the rules, nobody likes doing paperwork it sucks but is has to be done.

Can you proved that it was 4 schools? You worked at 4 schools?

I bet I know an HC in Forsyth County that had his paperwork completed properly and on time?