Next Year’s Lineup

[Crablegs1]

I wouldn’t be so sure. Iowa State will lose their 125, 141, 157, 184, 197, and 285.

only returning the Frost brothers and Euton plus Gaitan. And Paniro who has never AA’ed.

ISU has a very good heavyweight coming who is ready to AA right now and a blue chip 125 redshirting. Echemendia also has another year, but I think has not made it clear what his plans are. Have to think the NIL will help him make that decision though.

Still, the team has some holes to fill. Most pressingly 84 and 97.

 

[AFHawk86]

Here is a breakdown of how the rules work for redshirt (or "true") freshmen in wrestling:

• Postseason Exempt: Conference tournaments and the NCAA Tournament do not apply to this five-date limit.

Wouldn’t it be crazy if postseason applied to the 5-limit rule? Someone like Jax could wrestle 3 dates then conference and NCAAs and still have 4 years eligibility!

 

[SEWAHawk]

Because football is a high revenue sport, with players who can command lots of money for endorsements, sponsorships, and merchandise sales through mass market appeal. Football players can have massive social media presence. How much money do the universities make on ticket sales and TV contracts? Wrestling is a niche spot with a tiny audience, which loses money.

My AI tool tells me, “Wrestling accounts for only about 0.4% of total NIL compensation across college sports.“ It says multi time NCAA champions with Olympic credentials may command into the 6 figures. Based on that my assessment of 4 figures is likely low for top guys. But if a school has a $40M football roster, then 0.4% of that for wrestling would be a $160,000 roster.

In the end, none of us really knows and it may take some time to shake out.

Your original statement was money could only come from revenue sharing. Which objectively isn’t true and I used an example to point that out.

objectively speaking a wrestlers market value is higher at places like Iowa, Oklahoma state, and penn state compared to the likes of say Arizona state, Purdue, and NDSU.

But you are correct that no one really Knows.

 

[el dub]

Recruiting is his Achilles heel. wow.

It had been for a long time.

 

[el dub]

VV is way too small for 165.

Naw. He’s magically going to improve by making that move up. Just like when we have two marginal guys competing for a spot. The winner in the room is usually expected to rise to the competition. Because we like our guys.

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

Your original statement was money could only come from revenue sharing. Which objectively isn’t true and I used an example to point that out.

objectively speaking a wrestlers market value is higher at places like Iowa, Oklahoma state, and penn state compared to the likes of say Arizona state, Purdue, and NDSU.

But you are correct that no one really Knows.

Can't they still work camps--possibly at a higher fee now since NIL demand is creating a greater demand for their limited supply of time?

Then there is also the deferred promise of RTC stipend income for those elite wrestlers that aspire to freestyle, right?

In other words, the old school ways of the gray areas haven't gone away, have they?

 

[98lberEating2Lunches]

... Because we like our guys.

What's not to like? They can get he job done, after all.

 

[dtripp26]

Naw. He’s magically going to improve by making that move up. Just like when we have two marginal guys competing for a spot. The winner in the room is usually expected to rise to the competition. Because we like our guys.

 

[Babbahganoosh]

Penn State barring injuries will be better at all but one weight next year. And that weight could be a finalist.

Lilledahl will be returning champ and a junior.
Ono will be a junior, and is pound for pound one of the world’s best.
Blaze moves up and will be better than this year.
Ness back for senior season.
Kasak back and is already improved from last year.
Messenbrink, no need to discuss.
Henkel or Cunningham will replace Haines.
Welshman back and better
Barr back and better
Marsala back, better and no one else very good back at heavyweight.

scoring record for 4th straight year!

 

[Sir Pin Alot]

Wouldn’t it be crazy if postseason applied to the 5-limit rule? Someone like Jax could wrestle 3 dates then conference and NCAAs and still have 4 years eligibility!

83% of the wrestlers wouldn't even get an at large bid (did I do that right?). In all seriousness they wouldn't be ranked high enough or have wrestled the right competition TO get an at large bid. Guessing if they win their conference they deserve A bid.

 

[cwobrien11]

83% of the wrestlers wouldn't even get at at large bid. In all seriousness they wouldn't be ranked high enough or have wrestled the right competition TO get an at large bid.

I haven't been keeping track of Jax to know if he's already burned his redshirt or not, but if someone like Jax were to win the conference tournament (or place high enough to get one of the conference's bids) he wouldn't need an at large bid. If I was Okie State, I would give him a go at Big 12's just to see. It wouldn't burn his redshirt and there's little doubt he would add some points to the team total at Big 12's and likely at the NCAA's.

 

[UNIHawk]

Penn State barring injuries will be better at all but one weight next year. And that weight could be a finalist.

Lilledahl will be returning champ and a junior.
Ono will be a junior, and is pound for pound one of the world’s best.
Blaze moves up and will be better than this year.
Ness back for senior season.
Kasak back and is already improved from last year.
Messenbrink, no need to discuss.
Henkel or Cunningham will replace Haines.
Welshman back and better
Barr back and better
Marsala back, better and no one else very good back at heavyweight.

scoring record for 4th straight year!

Not saying this isn't correct but that means Desmond sits and burns a year unless he has a mystery injury.

 

[dtripp26]

I haven't been keeping track of Jax to know if he's already burned his redshirt or not, but if someone like Jax were to win the conference tournament (or place high enough to get one of the conference's bids) he wouldn't need an at large bid. If I was Okie State, I would give him a go at Big 12's just to see. It wouldn't burn his redshirt and there's little doubt he would add some points to the team total at Big 12's and likely at the NCAA's.

Wrestling in post season most definitely would burn his redshirt.

 

[dtripp26]

Not saying this isn't correct but that means Desmond sits and burns a year unless he has a mystery injury.

It's a shame that PSU has to constantly try to figure out situations like this. I really feel sorry for them.

 

[cwobrien11]

Wrestling in post season most definitely would burn his redshirt.

I thought that I read that the redshirt rules were similar to those for football (i.e. post season doesn't count as a competition date). I'll go back through the rule book. Gimme a bit.

 

[cwobrien11]

Wrestling in post season most definitely would burn his redshirt.

You are correct. I misread it originally. Here's the language:

12.8.3.1.7 Exception -- Men's Wrestling. In men's wrestling, a student-athlete representing a Division I institution may compete in up to five dates of competition during the student-athlete's initial year of collegiate enrollment without using a season of competition. Competition in a conference championship tournament, the NCAA Division I Wrestling Championships, or any other season-ending championship event shall not be exempted from counting as a season of competition.

 

[dtripp26]

Unless something has changed since BK. I'm pretty sure he didn't wrestle in the post-season as a true frosh to keep his RS.

 

[UNIHawk]

It's a shame that PSU has to constantly try to figure out situations like this. I really feel sorry for them.

Yea I know, and it might explain why Iowa's recruiting has been subpar when there's more than one team hoarding recruits three deep. And BTW, anyone else notice that since NIL the disparity has gotten worse?

 

[UNIHawk]

Unless something has changed since BK. I'm pretty sure he didn't wrestle in the post-season as a true frosh to keep his RS.

Post season participation burns a shirt, don't need to look this up.

 

[cwobrien11]

Post season participation burns a shirt, don't need to look this up.

It actually doesn't for a handful of NCAA sports. Wrestling just happens to be one where it does.

 

[maxpain]

It actually doesn't for a handful of NCAA sports. Wrestling just happens to be one where it does.

Yeah it’s hard to keep up but football is like that now I think. I thought I heard something new about all D2 sports allowing freshman to compete in postseason and still keep redshirts if it stays under 30%.

 

[el dub]

It's a shame that PSU has to constantly try to figure out situations like this. I really feel sorry for them.

Iron knows those type of decisions kill PSU’s recruiting potential dtr.

 

[Anon1750875978]

I wouldn’t be so sure. Iowa State will lose their 125, 141, 157, 184, 197, and 285.

only returning the Frost brothers and Euton plus Gaitan. And Paniro who has never AA’ed.

I won't be surprised to see Dresser recruit Endene for 197 just to stick it to TnT.

 

[Anon1757857321]

125- Leo Deluca. Very good recruit, but also will be going into a stacked weight class coming off an injury that has caused him to miss most of the season. Lilledahl, Ventresca, Robinson, Spratley, Bouzakis, Provo, Volk, and McGowan are all back. Realistic hope is 6-8 finish, maybe top12.
133- Portal. I would say Bailey but all reports had him really struggling with the cut to 133 at LR last year. Weight is stacked as well, even if some like Blaze bump up like rumored.
141-Bailey. Has the ability and the weight clears out a lot, but will still have Vega, Stanich, either Blaze or Ono, and that Bo kid who is pretty good (reports are he goes 141 next year and henson goes 149). Ceiling is probably 5th or 6th, floor is r12.
149-Block. Top 16 talent right now at this weight. Van Ness, Joy, Frost, Stiles, Swiderski (if not unseated by Raney), Buesgens, and Valencia all return and Henson comes out of redshirt. Would need significant improvement just to AA with that group.
157- Williams. Talent yes, but hasn't put it together to beat anyone of significance this year. Only seniors at this weight at Zerban and Miller. Taylor, Duke, Shapiro, Cannon, Larkin, Robideau, Watters, and a host of others are all back. Most will not want to move up to avoid 165. AA level talent for Williams, but probably a top 12.
165- Portal. Could see some at this weight try and clear out to avoid Mesenbrink, wouldn't be shocked to see Lockett at 174. Heard rumors of Joey Blaze to VT?
174-Gabe. Should be an AA with his defense but lack of offense puts a ceiling at 3rd-8th. Just don't think he can rely on winning rideouts in the quarters or semis. Haines and Kharchla leave but everyone else is back. Minto might be the early favorite. Does Jayden James go right away for PSU and is he big enough for 174? Or do they go Henkel?
184-Ferrari. High AA. could be anywhere from 1-4. Ability and talent to win the whole thing thanks to his athleticism and defense, but style keeps around in the hunt. Welsh, Sinclair, McEnelly, Mantanona and Fishback all back. Does Sinclair bump up to 197? Does Merrill drop to 184 for OSU?
197-Ludington. Realistic hope is Top 12 with a good offseason. He has not shown enough yet to be predicated to AA. Barr, Little, Berge, Stout, Novak, Merrill (maybe), Rademacher, Geog, Posada, Sasso, and McDanel are all back. Will be tough to place at that weight.
285-Keuter. Low AA. 5-8th. Will be interesting to see how he looks another year removed from the surgery, but does he devout time to football also? Feldman, Ferrari, Carroll, Mirasola, Taylor, Amos, Hopke, Pitzer and Mullen return. Plus Ross will probably go right away for Oklahoma State.

Depending on the portal additions I would realistically say AA with Deluca, Bailey, Gabe, Ferrari, and Keuter. Ferrari would be the only title contender though.

 

[HugoHugo]

I won't be surprised to see Dresser recruit Endene for 197 just to stick it to TnT.

Endene was apparently on an official recruiting visit to Missouri on Friday.

 

[maxpain]

I think it’s probably unlikely that all the returners come back next year. I don’t have any info, just a guess based on how things have gone. Hope I am wrong though.

 

[PUR158]

Blaze only Boiler I noticed came to Hawk coaches for handshake after match.

This is actually a good barometer for potential portal acquisitions. If anyone from an opposing team shakes Brands hands. One Brand Handshake...he might be a good option. Both Brands get a handshake = next Hawk Finalist.

 

[UNIHawk]

It actually doesn't for a handful of NCAA sports. Wrestling just happens to be one where it does.

Well since this is wrestling forum I assumed that’s what we were talking about.

 

[Fatwoodchuck]

I haven't been keeping track of Jax to know if he's already burned his redshirt or not, but if someone like Jax were to win the conference tournament (or place high enough to get one of the conference's bids) he wouldn't need an at large bid. If I was Okie State, I would give him a go at Big 12's just to see. It wouldn't burn his redshirt and there's little doubt he would add some points to the team total at Big 12's and likely at the NCAA's.

Jaxs shirt got burnt against VT he is a good for post season, almost 100% sure I'm right.

 

[Fatwoodchuck]

125- Leo Deluca. Very good recruit, but also will be going into a stacked weight class coming off an injury that has caused him to miss most of the season. Lilledahl, Ventresca, Robinson, Spratley, Bouzakis, Provo, Volk, and McGowan are all back. Realistic hope is 6-8 finish, maybe top12.
133- Portal. I would say Bailey but all reports had him really struggling with the cut to 133 at LR last year. Weight is stacked as well, even if some like Blaze bump up like rumored.
141-Bailey. Has the ability and the weight clears out a lot, but will still have Vega, Stanich, either Blaze or Ono, and that Bo kid who is pretty good (reports are he goes 141 next year and henson goes 149). Ceiling is probably 5th or 6th, floor is r12.
149-Block. Top 16 talent right now at this weight. Van Ness, Joy, Frost, Stiles, Swiderski (if not unseated by Raney), Buesgens, and Valencia all return and Henson comes out of redshirt. Would need significant improvement just to AA with that group.
157- Williams. Talent yes, but hasn't put it together to beat anyone of significance this year. Only seniors at this weight at Zerban and Miller. Taylor, Duke, Shapiro, Cannon, Larkin, Robideau, Watters, and a host of others are all back. Most will not want to move up to avoid 165. AA level talent for Williams, but probably a top 12.
165- Portal. Could see some at this weight try and clear out to avoid Mesenbrink, wouldn't be shocked to see Lockett at 174. Heard rumors of Joey Blaze to VT?
174-Gabe. Should be an AA with his defense but lack of offense puts a ceiling at 3rd-8th. Just don't think he can rely on winning rideouts in the quarters or semis. Haines and Kharchla leave but everyone else is back. Minto might be the early favorite. Does Jayden James go right away for PSU and is he big enough for 174? Or do they go Henkel?
184-Ferrari. High AA. could be anywhere from 1-4. Ability and talent to win the whole thing thanks to his athleticism and defense, but style keeps around in the hunt. Welsh, Sinclair, McEnelly, Mantanona and Fishback all back. Does Sinclair bump up to 197? Does Merrill drop to 184 for OSU?
197-Ludington. Realistic hope is Top 12 with a good offseason. He has not shown enough yet to be predicated to AA. Barr, Little, Berge, Stout, Novak, Merrill (maybe), Rademacher, Geog, Posada, Sasso, and McDanel are all back. Will be tough to place at that weight.
285-Keuter. Low AA. 5-8th. Will be interesting to see how he looks another year removed from the surgery, but does he devout time to football also? Feldman, Ferrari, Carroll, Mirasola, Taylor, Amos, Hopke, Pitzer and Mullen return. Plus Ross will probably go right away for Oklahoma State.

Depending on the portal additions I would realistically say AA with Deluca, Bailey, Gabe, Ferrari, and Keuter. Ferrari would be the only title contender though.

I also believe but am not sure about it but I thought Henson took the shirt to move up to 157 that is why Miller came to VT this year, idk I could be talking out my butt on this one bit it is atleast what my brain has planned.

Makes sense for the lineup to fit Basset at 149

 

[Babbahganoosh]

Jaxs shirt got burnt against VT he is a good for post season, almost 100% sure I'm right.

They said the VT meet was his fifth date.
If he wrestles against Iowa, that would burn his shirt.

 

[Fatwoodchuck]

They said the VT meet was his fifth date.
If he wrestles against Iowa, that would burn his shirt.

Yes his other date was a double dual weekend that counts as one date the tourney he did was unattached. He has one more date per wrestle stat but he is marked as the starter, not that it means anything.

 

[RockySmith]

125- Leo Deluca. Very good recruit, but also will be going into a stacked weight class coming off an injury that has caused him to miss most of the season. Lilledahl, Ventresca, Robinson, Spratley, Bouzakis, Provo, Volk, and McGowan are all back. Realistic hope is 6-8 finish, maybe top12.
133- Portal. I would say Bailey but all reports had him really struggling with the cut to 133 at LR last year. Weight is stacked as well, even if some like Blaze bump up like rumored.
141-Bailey. Has the ability and the weight clears out a lot, but will still have Vega, Stanich, either Blaze or Ono, and that Bo kid who is pretty good (reports are he goes 141 next year and henson goes 149). Ceiling is probably 5th or 6th, floor is r12.
149-Block. Top 16 talent right now at this weight. Van Ness, Joy, Frost, Stiles, Swiderski (if not unseated by Raney), Buesgens, and Valencia all return and Henson comes out of redshirt. Would need significant improvement just to AA with that group.
157- Williams. Talent yes, but hasn't put it together to beat anyone of significance this year. Only seniors at this weight at Zerban and Miller. Taylor, Duke, Shapiro, Cannon, Larkin, Robideau, Watters, and a host of others are all back. Most will not want to move up to avoid 165. AA level talent for Williams, but probably a top 12.
165- Portal. Could see some at this weight try and clear out to avoid Mesenbrink, wouldn't be shocked to see Lockett at 174. Heard rumors of Joey Blaze to VT?
174-Gabe. Should be an AA with his defense but lack of offense puts a ceiling at 3rd-8th. Just don't think he can rely on winning rideouts in the quarters or semis. Haines and Kharchla leave but everyone else is back. Minto might be the early favorite. Does Jayden James go right away for PSU and is he big enough for 174? Or do they go Henkel?
184-Ferrari. High AA. could be anywhere from 1-4. Ability and talent to win the whole thing thanks to his athleticism and defense, but style keeps around in the hunt. Welsh, Sinclair, McEnelly, Mantanona and Fishback all back. Does Sinclair bump up to 197? Does Merrill drop to 184 for OSU?
197-Ludington. Realistic hope is Top 12 with a good offseason. He has not shown enough yet to be predicated to AA. Barr, Little, Berge, Stout, Novak, Merrill (maybe), Rademacher, Geog, Posada, Sasso, and McDanel are all back. Will be tough to place at that weight.
285-Keuter. Low AA. 5-8th. Will be interesting to see how he looks another year removed from the surgery, but does he devout time to football also? Feldman, Ferrari, Carroll, Mirasola, Taylor, Amos, Hopke, Pitzer and Mullen return. Plus Ross will probably go right away for Oklahoma State.

Depending on the portal additions I would realistically say AA with Deluca, Bailey, Gabe, Ferrari, and Keuter. Ferrari would be the only title contender though.

This is a really well thought out, objective assessment. Thx.

 

[Sabula]

Endene was apparently on an official recruiting visit to Missouri on Friday.

Is he good buddies with Kaden Proctor?

 

[MVPFAN]

125- Leo Deluca. Very good recruit, but also will be going into a stacked weight class coming off an injury that has caused him to miss most of the season. Lilledahl, Ventresca, Robinson, Spratley, Bouzakis, Provo, Volk, and McGowan are all back. Realistic hope is 6-8 finish, maybe top12.
133- Portal. I would say Bailey but all reports had him really struggling with the cut to 133 at LR last year. Weight is stacked as well, even if some like Blaze bump up like rumored.
141-Bailey. Has the ability and the weight clears out a lot, but will still have Vega, Stanich, either Blaze or Ono, and that Bo kid who is pretty good (reports are he goes 141 next year and henson goes 149). Ceiling is probably 5th or 6th, floor is r12.
149-Block. Top 16 talent right now at this weight. Van Ness, Joy, Frost, Stiles, Swiderski (if not unseated by Raney), Buesgens, and Valencia all return and Henson comes out of redshirt. Would need significant improvement just to AA with that group.
157- Williams. Talent yes, but hasn't put it together to beat anyone of significance this year. Only seniors at this weight at Zerban and Miller. Taylor, Duke, Shapiro, Cannon, Larkin, Robideau, Watters, and a host of others are all back. Most will not want to move up to avoid 165. AA level talent for Williams, but probably a top 12.
165- Portal. Could see some at this weight try and clear out to avoid Mesenbrink, wouldn't be shocked to see Lockett at 174. Heard rumors of Joey Blaze to VT?
174-Gabe. Should be an AA with his defense but lack of offense puts a ceiling at 3rd-8th. Just don't think he can rely on winning rideouts in the quarters or semis. Haines and Kharchla leave but everyone else is back. Minto might be the early favorite. Does Jayden James go right away for PSU and is he big enough for 174? Or do they go Henkel?
184-Ferrari. High AA. could be anywhere from 1-4. Ability and talent to win the whole thing thanks to his athleticism and defense, but style keeps around in the hunt. Welsh, Sinclair, McEnelly, Mantanona and Fishback all back. Does Sinclair bump up to 197? Does Merrill drop to 184 for OSU?
197-Ludington. Realistic hope is Top 12 with a good offseason. He has not shown enough yet to be predicated to AA. Barr, Little, Berge, Stout, Novak, Merrill (maybe), Rademacher, Geog, Posada, Sasso, and McDanel are all back. Will be tough to place at that weight.
285-Keuter. Low AA. 5-8th. Will be interesting to see how he looks another year removed from the surgery, but does he devout time to football also? Feldman, Ferrari, Carroll, Mirasola, Taylor, Amos, Hopke, Pitzer and Mullen return. Plus Ross will probably go right away for Oklahoma State.

Depending on the portal additions I would realistically say AA with Deluca, Bailey, Gabe, Ferrari, and Keuter. Ferrari would be the only title contender though.

That's an ugly lineup. More programs look like they will jump over us and VT could very well be one of them.

 

[lisa morales]

Deluca is 5'3".

 

[BroncHawk]

Deluca is 5'3".

So future 184#?

 

[lisa morales]

So future 184#?

Or a dental hygienist.

 

[redghost1974]

i think this team could sneak into top 10 if all the stars line up

When has that ever happened in March? We have had some good consi runs, but I see no bonus points after rd 1 In that line up which is a huge deficit to overcome at nationals.

 

[jakgray]

Yes his other date was a double dual weekend that counts as one date the tourney he did was unattached. He has one more date per wrestle stat but he is marked as the starter, not that it means anything.

V tech was his 5th date.
He had to wrestle attach in the open it doesn't matter that its 2nd semester its his first semester. The 2 duals on the same weekend counts as 1. You are aloud 1 double dual to count as 1 per the ncaa rules.

He will burn his shirt if he wrestles against iowa. Same with Ramirez.