Nike and Kaepernick

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Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
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UK has a history of racist behavior. A quick google search might enlighten you quite a bit.

Actually we do know quite a bit about a lot of them. More so in some instances that what you think you know about CK. He literally had an interview where he stated the shirt was about MalcomX and nothing to do about Castro. You have just chosen to ignore the facts and promote your own agenda.That's your right, but promoting it as fact or anything other than your opinion is completely untruthful.

Do you beleive in everything your spouse does? Does he/she define you as a person?

He wore the shirt because it has Malcom X on it. I have an unforgettables shirt that I wear it because it has UK and a couple former players I liked. Does that mean I support Richie Farmers and his illegal activity?

Do you know for a fact he didn't just pick it out?

It's a bad look if you don't like him or are against his stance. It's a great look if you are on the other side.

It's not about Trump for me. I'm a fan of Gen Kelly and Mattis. We all know they are really in charge now. They are doing no harm to me, why would I want to change that? That's just the one of the safespace arguments you all try to utilize when all else fails. Next we will hear how it was all Hillary's fault as if she is the president or something.

Maybe they like cotton. Nathan B Forrest was a prominent cotton farmer. I don't know beyond a reasonable doubt what their intentions are. I also don't judge a book by it's cover.

It is CLEARLY my opinion Graf, that isn't some grand revelation, nor did I ever say it was fact. I'm forming my opinion on evidence that Kap himself has given, I also believe he was covering his ***, and feels exactly as you yourself wrote, that it was a great look.

So you like Castro? You're clearly of the opposing opinion, and you just stated it was a great look for the opposition.

You mean the racist behavior that came to light 15 years after Rupp died, and was refuted? See how easy it is to sway the public. That don't know that Rupp and UK was one of the first teams in the south to play teams with black players, or that Rupp would help black players in the South get scholarships at Northern schools, such as Duquesne, or that Rupp organized an all black high school championship for KY. Does that sound like a racist to you?

I gave you a clear example of a similar scenario, not one where you blanket millions of people.

We aren't judging a book by it's cover, Kap wasn't randomly seen wearing a Castro/Malcolm X shirt and I formed an opinion. We have evidence by prior actions of how he thinks, pig socks in practice, Muslim activist GF, monet to convicted cop killer, kneeling for the anthem, nike commercial. There is a mountain of evidence, thats exactly my point that you keep making for me.
 
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TheGrafSpot..

Redshirt
Sep 6, 2018
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I never said Kap must fully align with Castro's beliefs. You haven't given examples to contradict, you throw a blanket statement over a group of millions, I thought lumping groups was bad? I'm simply using one mans prior actions that we know about to form an opinion that he didn't haphazardly wear a shirt with Castro and malcolm x on it. I'm not trying claim anything as fact, I thought it was quite obvious that it was my opinion, just as what you're arguing is simply an opinion based from emotion rather than what is blatantly obvious.

So the sanctions don't hurt Russia,you think they wanted Uraine to have deadly weapons which Trump has sold them yet Obama wouldn't? What do you want, the US to go to war with Russia over facebook meme's?
I know NK didn't pay for lodging, jesus christ, is that your rebuttal on not paying money to denuclearize? China paid for and provided his transportation. I don't know if they'll denuclearize or not peacefully, but I'm glad the President at least tried are you not?

Please provide evidence where any of the indictments show collusion, just one. I have no doubt Russia tried to meddle, as well as China and a number of other nations, but there's a far cry from facebook meme's and a campaign colluding with a foreign country. I do know Mueller just caved and agreed to let Trump have written questions and answers.

What has been made public and confirmed by the WH about Russia?

People are copping pleas because they're being offered significantly reduced sentences, of which none has anything to do with Russia or Trump.
We're 2 years into an investigation that was concocted from BS to stall or undermine Trumps election, thats it, and you idiots bought it hook line and sinker.




Of course you have. You implied he is praising and supporting Castro, his beliefs, and his oppression/evil. All simply because a picture of him was included on a shirt he was wearing, which he stated was a tribute to Malcom X. You choose to align yourself with the fabricated belief and promote the idea of a more sinister representation of his action and words, simply because the truth doesn't support your obvious fallacy.



How did the sanctions hurt them? Please cite sources and use actual evidence and not personal feelings, beliefs and faux news to provide support and to help properly articulate a valid argument.


Russia has the most advanced weaponry in the world. Their arsenal, particularly nukes, dwarfs even ours. Do you honestly think they give a **** if we sell Ukraine weapons that aren't even adequate to what Russia produces? What did this really accomplish. Are you sure it wasn't just a publicity stunt for people like yourselves that have 0 understanding of government, politics and particularly international politics. Let alone international sanctions. How has this hurt Russia? Again, please present a valid, fact-based argument.


Obama was smart. He elected to not sell weaponry to countries that could turn around and use them against us or other allies.


No, I prefer to avoid war, but if we must go to war with Russia I would prefer it be over interfering in US relations, particularly election interference.


Last week, The Washington Post reported that the United States was looking for a way to help cover costs without embarrassing North Korea. The reclusive country reportedly doesn't have much economic wiggle-room, and the presidential suite at the Fullerton, where Kim is staying reportedly costs upward of $6,000 a night.


But potential pitfalls to paying for Kim's room exceed simply causing social discomfort: There are many, many sanctions against North Korea, and covering the cost of a hotel stay could violate them.


"It is unlikely the United States will cover North Korea’s expenses, “former David Adelman told Yahoo Finance. "Doing so likely would require a waiver of strict sanctions in place. Perhaps more importantly, to have the United States cover North Korea’s expenses might be considered a loss of face, which North Korea would want to avoid."


Now, do you honestly think the US did not coordinate and provide retributions to parties involved in the payment and reason to keep quiet about it? Keep in mind you think CK is guilty simply by association of the picture on his shirt.


Please provide evidence where any of the indictments show collusion, just one. I have no doubt Russia tried to meddle, as well as China and a number of other nations, but there's a far cry from Facebook meme's and a campaign colluding with a foreign country. I do know Mueller just caved and agreed to let Trump have written questions and answers.

You would need to contact Robert Mueller's office for that. Seems like Trump associates are jumping for plea deals right and left. Sure seems like there is more to the story than you want to let on. What about that meeting in Trump Tower that the Trump team has admitted was to get dirt on the opposition? That's not colluding or conspiring to you?

That Russia interfered.

How are we 2 years in? Trump hasn't even been in office or elected a full 2 years yet. And they have found quite a bit, or Trump and associates wouldn't be so worked up. Why is Trump afraid to meet with the Special Council again? And how or why did he fail a mock interregation from his own council. If there is not crime, why be afraid and how the hell do you fail the mock interview?
 
Mar 23, 2012
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Nike can do what they want. It’s a free country. As I can do what I want and not buy their products. Nike lost $4 billion in value in the stock market yesterday and it was directly related to their ad campaign. Whether that is a trend in their market value remains to be seen.
And ever since the big drop it's been going back up. Stock market reflects society, a bunch of short-sighted, reactionary people.
 

fuzz77

All-Conference
Sep 19, 2012
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That is a statement, he could've just as easily said my GF gave it to me, or any other countless reasons, but he gave that reason.

Finally you got to the root cause as to why you're supporting Kap, because of your hate for Trump, honesty at last!
Nevermind that Trump is the President, and trying to work a deal to denuclearize North Korea, or that he's trying to get out of Syria and eliminate ISIS with Russian help. How bout the crippling sanctions he's placed on both of those leaders nations, do those statements not mean anything?
He wasn't asked where he got the shirt, he was being pressed about Castro and Cuba over and over.

Perhaps you should search the archives. I'm sure I made statements in support of Kap long before Trump was ever elected or part of the narrative.

To be clear, we've been down this road before...people dodging the draft, burning draft cards and flags... I universally support people's right to peaceful protest in whatever manner they choose.
 

Cawood86_rivals

Heisman
Feb 20, 2005
36,711
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I'm sorry you're having such a hard time articulating yourself in a somewhat intellectual manner. You seem to be getting pretty worked up over this and feel the need to resort to personal attacks and fallacies in an attempt to generate a similar reaction out of me. Little secret; it won’t work. I understand this is typical behavior of the weaker, indigent-minded individuals, but I was so hoping you could offer more.

You sure seem to assume a lot of things. Who said I disliked Trump? I think he is a bit dumb, but he has not real control or power for me to dislike him. As long as he is the President in name, Gen Kelly and Mattis are running the country, and I have no qualms with that.

When did Kaepernick where a shirt idolizing Castro? I think you mean he wore a shirt with a picture of Malcom X, in which he was meeting with Fidel Castro. It was a shirt which dictated that 2 people from polar opposite sides are capable of having an open dialogue to try to bring change. Never once did he praise Castro as you want us to believe. FYI, North Korea and Russia have oppressed millions though, so I am sure you were outraged at Trump when he praised them publicly, correct? Or how about when he praised white nationalist as good people? You were against that since that have oppressed many people of color, correct?

Do you think all cops are good? You've never heard or met a bad one? If you have, which if we are being honest we both know you have, then what I said was true. Some cops are pigs. That doesn't mean they all are, but the actions of a few can give them all a bad name sometimes. Particularly the ones who target minority groups and shoot unarmed or defenseless people because they are afraid of people who look different than them. Also, why would I call the police when I have the right to just shoot them?

Black on Black crime is an issue in this country. As is Black on white, white on black, white on white, Hispanic on white, white on Hispanic, black on Hispanic and Hispanic on black, and male on female. I stand against all that and I also am against police specifically targeting any group, in this case black men. I am capable of caring about more than one issue at a time. Are you not? Are you fine with them targeting whoever they feel? Were you supportive of the Gestapo and Nazi's?
You sure have a high opinion of yourself. Must be why you worship CK so much. Asking if I support the Nazi's is as lame as your self righteous post which is full of more bull than a stockyard.
You are wasting your time if you truly think I am worked up over some over inflated ego of a poster on a board that I won't ever meet or care to.
So by your standard, MS 13 gang members reflect bad on all hispanics or the black gangs in Chicago that are killing people like swatting flies makes all black folks look bad. Are all Germans just reformed Nazis in your ridiculous view? Italians all mafia members in hiding?
I love pseudo intellectuals like you that feel superior to everyone. It's good comedy to read your posts that read like an essay by Ivy league elitist who thinks everyone not from New York or LA is just some uneducated slag taking up space.
You are such a social justice warrior huh.....[roll][roll][roll][roll]
 

fuzz77

All-Conference
Sep 19, 2012
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Because you're being dishonest, even implying an entire fan base to counter a single person that has a story we all know. He knelt during the anthem, dates a muslim activist, gave money to a convicted cop killer, and just so happens to wear a shirt with Castro/malcolm X. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, it's a duck.

You don't know if he'll succeed in NK or not, me either, but he's trying without offering money. NK is simply part of the negotiations with China in the bigger picture.
Are you saying Trump hasn't placed stricter sanctions on Russia and NK? Really
What help from Russia, you mean the collusion that never happened? Wanna point out any evidence of that after 2 years of investigations?
Bill, how do you know Trump isn't offering money to NK? How do you know that he isn't negotiating to build a hotel or other buildings there when he is out of office?
Even Trump's own SoS said he didn't know anything about the negotiations. You're simply trusting Trump on his words???[roll]
Good Lord, his lie count is nearing 5000...again that log of lies is dated and noted so it can easily be verified...but you trust whatever he says?
 

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,351
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Of course you have. You implied he is praising and supporting Castro, his beliefs, and his oppression/evil. All simply because a picture of him was included on a shirt he was wearing, which he stated was a tribute to Malcom X. You choose to align yourself with the fabricated belief and promote the idea of a more sinister representation of his action and words, simply because the truth doesn't support your obvious fallacy.



How did the sanctions hurt them? Please cite sources and use actual evidence and not personal feelings, beliefs and faux news to provide support and to help properly articulate a valid argument.


Russia has the most advanced weaponry in the world. Their arsenal, particularly nukes, dwarfs even ours. Do you honestly think they give a **** if we sell Ukraine weapons that aren't even adequate to what Russia produces? What did this really accomplish. Are you sure it wasn't just a publicity stunt for people like yourselves that have 0 understanding of government, politics and particularly international politics. Let alone international sanctions. How has this hurt Russia? Again, please present a valid, fact-based argument.


Obama was smart. He elected to not sell weaponry to countries that could turn around and use them against us or other allies.


No, I prefer to avoid war, but if we must go to war with Russia I would prefer it be over interfering in US relations, particularly election interference.


Last week, The Washington Post reported that the United States was looking for a way to help cover costs without embarrassing North Korea. The reclusive country reportedly doesn't have much economic wiggle-room, and the presidential suite at the Fullerton, where Kim is staying reportedly costs upward of $6,000 a night.


But potential pitfalls to paying for Kim's room exceed simply causing social discomfort: There are many, many sanctions against North Korea, and covering the cost of a hotel stay could violate them.


"It is unlikely the United States will cover North Korea’s expenses, “former David Adelman told Yahoo Finance. "Doing so likely would require a waiver of strict sanctions in place. Perhaps more importantly, to have the United States cover North Korea’s expenses might be considered a loss of face, which North Korea would want to avoid."


Now, do you honestly think the US did not coordinate and provide retributions to parties involved in the payment and reason to keep quiet about it? Keep in mind you think CK is guilty simply by association of the picture on his shirt.


Please provide evidence where any of the indictments show collusion, just one. I have no doubt Russia tried to meddle, as well as China and a number of other nations, but there's a far cry from Facebook meme's and a campaign colluding with a foreign country. I do know Mueller just caved and agreed to let Trump have written questions and answers.

You would need to contact Robert Mueller's office for that. Seems like Trump associates are jumping for plea deals right and left. Sure seems like there is more to the story than you want to let on. What about that meeting in Trump Tower that the Trump team has admitted was to get dirt on the opposition? That's not colluding or conspiring to you?

That Russia interfered.

How are we 2 years in? Trump hasn't even been in office or elected a full 2 years yet. And they have found quite a bit, or Trump and associates wouldn't be so worked up. Why is Trump afraid to meet with the Special Council again? And how or why did he fail a mock interregation from his own council. If there is not crime, why be afraid and how the hell do you fail the mock interview?

That is my opinion that is why he wore it, and I still believe it based on his own actions that I have listed. That is called an educated opinion, not based solely on a shirt like you're implying.

http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-pol-us-russia-sanctions-20180611-story.html
https://meduza.io/en/news/2018/09/0...-reportedly-bracing-for-tougher-u-s-sanctions
https://www.cnn.com/2018/08/08/politics/us-state-department-russia-sanctions/index.html
Russia sanctions imposed above.

I clearly wrote that that the US paid for Kim's accomadations in Singapore, China paid for his travel there. but trying to compare that to paying for them to denuclearize is ridiculous.

They're jumping at plea deals for things that happened years ago, and have nothing to do with the Campaign because they're being offered significantly reduced sentences.

You mean the meeting where the young lady was approved to enter the country by Obama admin, then went directly to meet with Fusion afterwards, that meeting? How is that different having Steele go to Russia looking for dirt on Trump, not finding any, creating a dossier that can't be verified, and the FBI using that material to launch an investigation and get FISA warrants to listen to the Campaign? Then have key members of the past admin create the scenario for the media to report on it, and leak to the media Trump was informed about it? Hows that sound, is that not intentionally trying to undermine a duly elected President?
The investigation started in July of 2016, this is now Sept 2018, 2 years no collusion, it was a farce from the beginning. No need for Trump to sit for the Special Counsel, the only reason the Special Cousel has a need to talk to the President is if he can't get answers for questions from somewhere else. You don't sit because there's nothing to gain, first as President he doesn't have to, second Mueller can turn anything into perjury, all it takes is for one other person to have told them something different. The mock interview was debunked by Dowd himself last night, it never happened.
 

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,351
39,178
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Bill, how do you know Trump isn't offering money to NK? How do you know that he isn't negotiating to build a hotel or other buildings there when he is out of office?
Even Trump's own SoS said he didn't know anything about the negotiations. You're simply trusting Trump on his words???[roll]
Good Lord, his lie count is nearing 5000...again that log of lies is dated and noted so it can easily be verified...but you trust whatever he says?

Holy **** Fuzz, you're playing right into the medias hands, the truth isn't the truth unless they say it is. Have you seen anything where we've given NK money to denuclearize?
Please post the list or link. Lets see what they're calling lies, how bout Obama wiretapping his campaign, you still think that is a lie?
 

TheGrafSpot

Sophomore
Aug 9, 2018
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You sure have a high opinion of yourself. Must be why you worship CK so much. Asking if I support the Nazi's is as lame as your self righteous post which is full of more bull than a stockyard.
You are wasting your time if you truly think I am worked up over some over inflated ego of a poster on a board that I won't ever meet or care to.
So by your standard, MS 13 gang members reflect bad on all hispanics or the black gangs in Chicago that are killing people like swatting flies makes all black folks look bad. Are all Germans just reformed Nazis in your ridiculous view? Italians all mafia members in hiding?
I love pseudo intellectuals like you that feel superior to everyone. It's good comedy to read your posts that read like an essay by Ivy league elitist who thinks everyone not from New York or LA is just some uneducated slag taking up space.
You are such a social justice warrior huh.....[roll][roll][roll][roll]
I have a high opinion of myself, yet worship someone else? Lol, that makes no sense.

No that was your view. You just seem to struggle remembering or want to move away from it now. I don't blame you.

How is that by my standard? You seem confused. You are the one who claims that because Castro is on his shirt along with Malcom X he must solely represent Castro's beliefs. You also indicated all cops were good, none were bad, and should be able to target who ever they please. No? That puts you in common with the Gestapo.

Are you saying all black people and Hispanic people are in gangs, particularly MS-13 and comparing them to flies? Wow, That's a pretty lofty statement man. And you think Germans are Nazi's and Italians are in the Mafia? So you think Cal is Mafia? Wow man, that's pretty bold stuff.

You think I am come across like that? That is really flattering man. And I've never been to NYC or LA, not sure I would know how elite they are or appear. I do know that KY has one of the lowest literacy and education rates in the nation. And most people on here are likely from KY. So, I am a bit aware of the target audience partaking in these forums.

You sure seem to be taking it to a personal level for someone who doesn't care or isn't worked up over it.
 
Feb 21, 2006
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Seems a lot of the issues are with the execution of CK's message/movement and some of the things he did after the initial kneel.

The Castro shirt, the socks, what seemed to be a general derogatory attitude towards cops, and his association with some questionable social-race hustlers.

By all accounts CK is a good dude, and he probably has the very best intentions but unfortunately I think he was co-opted by a crowd not so pure as he. I believe these folks and the direction they led CK are the real reason he is no longer in the league and his message/movement is more polarizing and divisive.

In addition to bad counsel on how to deliver his message and promote his social causes I think he's gotten some bad career advice. I think CK came close to getting back into the league but some folks got into his ear for whatever reason.

The issue now is not even kneeling or CK anymore, but things have devolved into a clash of sides of the isle and social tribes.

If he is doing really good things for the community and practicing what he preaches like folks say he is, good on him. I do think it would be great for all sides if he could bridge some sort of peace with the NFL.
 

fuzz77

All-Conference
Sep 19, 2012
12,163
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Holy **** Fuzz, you're playing right into the medias hands, the truth isn't the truth unless they say it is. Have you seen anything where we've given NK money to denuclearize?
Please post the list or link. Lets see what they're calling lies, how bout Obama wiretapping his campaign, you still think that is a lie?
Bill, not playing into anyone's hands, just stating the obvious.
The man lies...again nearly 5000 provable lies since taking office. Not a matter of opinion, provable falsehoods. The list is available if you care to review it.
Who was there to verify what was discussed with NK, with Putin?

I'll feed you just two little nuggets...

More often than not, the president can’t let go of a favorite talking point. On June 20, he claimed he had received a phone call from the head of U.S. Steel and learned the company had announced it would open “six major facilities.” But U.S. Steel had made no such announcement and we debunked this claim as worthy of Four Pinocchios. Yet 23 more times over 10 weeks, the president has asserted that U.S. Steel was building new plants, inflating it even to seven facilities and then to eight.

Not surprisingly, immigration is the top source of Trump’s misleading claims, now totaling 592. Forty-three times just in the past six months, for instance, the president has falsely claimed his long-promised border wall with Mexico is being built, even though Congress has denied funding for it.

Come on Bill...is he lying about US Steel or not? They say he is lying.
Is the wall being built or not? No funding has been approved.

Why is he lying about things so easily verified? And you want to argue that it's just the media????
If he lies about these things then how can you trust what he says with regards to Russia or N. Korea?
 

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,351
39,178
113
Bill, not playing into anyone's hands, just stating the obvious.
The man lies...again nearly 5000 provable lies since taking office. Not a matter of opinion, provable falsehoods. The list is available if you care to review it.
Who was there to verify what was discussed with NK, with Putin?

I'll feed you just two little nuggets...

More often than not, the president can’t let go of a favorite talking point. On June 20, he claimed he had received a phone call from the head of U.S. Steel and learned the company had announced it would open “six major facilities.” But U.S. Steel had made no such announcement and we debunked this claim as worthy of Four Pinocchios. Yet 23 more times over 10 weeks, the president has asserted that U.S. Steel was building new plants, inflating it even to seven facilities and then to eight.

Not surprisingly, immigration is the top source of Trump’s misleading claims, now totaling 592. Forty-three times just in the past six months, for instance, the president has falsely claimed his long-promised border wall with Mexico is being built, even though Congress has denied funding for it.

Come on Bill...is he lying about US Steel or not? They say he is lying.
Is the wall being built or not? No funding has been approved.

Why is he lying about things so easily verified? And you want to argue that it's just the media????
If he lies about these things then how can you trust what he says with regards to Russia or N. Korea?

Did you read that list? They're pretty loose with what they consider a lie, in other words if it varies from what the writer thinks, it's a lie.

Lets take the US Steel claim you've mevtioned. Trump clearly stated he received a call from them, the article that you copied clearly states US Steel hasn't made those announcements, that is 2 different things.
The wall is being built, the entire wall hasn't been funded, but sections in California are being built.

You misrepresented in your second sentence, it isn't 5000 provable lies, it's things the writer assumes is wrong in most counts or exaggerations.
Did you lie, or were you just wrong?

The way the past admin acted leading up to and after Trumps election should be bigger than watergate, which is what Trump was implying. They tried to undermine, successfully, an incoming President. Yet nary a word from them about it, in fact they won't even cover it. They made a mockery of the peaceful transisition of power.

Back to the point of NK, you can believe whatever you like, I know there is no evidence of paying off NK as the Clinton and Bush admins did with no avail, I know Obama flat out lied and secretly sent Iran billions of dollars to buy them off for 10 years.
 

TheGrafSpot

Sophomore
Aug 9, 2018
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Does your educated opinion include the fact he has donated a million + to struggling communities, schools and organization to help improve the lives of the indigent? How about all the hours of his time he has donated as well? If it does include those, then I question the education of the person coming to that conclusion. If it does not, then it obviously is a very biased opinion.

No one has argued on if sanctions were imposed. We all have seen the news. The issue is what those sanction can ultimately accomplish and if they were just political fodder to give the administration a few talking points while never actually sanctioning Russia via things that will actually have an impact? What impacts are they likely to have on Russia, and is it enough to counter their impact on our elections and prevent future attack, which by all account are still occurring? Also, your own articles insinuate he did so reluctantly after congress passed them almost unanimously. It also mentions may same argument that they aren't exactly damaging or impactful sanctions. He's also trying to get them back into the G7 and more global influence and power, but hey, don't let those facts get in your way.

Where did you clearly write the US paid for Kim's accommodations? Because technically that would be illegal, as it is against US International policy and international law. We couldn't legally pay for anything or be tied to any direct payments or funding because we have current economic sanctions placed against them. Nor would NK have allowed that embarrassment to happen publicly.

What do you think we offered NK in exchange for them to denuke? You realize it included an economic relief and aid package, which is a fancy term for money. How is that not paying them to denuke? I would think with your educated opinions you could have figured that one out.

Holy ****, you are one gullible dude if you believe that. Some charges were a few years older, but several occurred during the campaign years. Most of these guys are going away for a long *** time regardless and could have easily been pardoned by the president, who even suggested he may or avoided the topic multiple times. The same president who seems to enjoy pardoning people.

You mean the meeting where the young lady was approved to enter the country by Obama admin, then went directly to meet with Fusion afterwards, that meeting? She had been coming to the US for several years to defend a Russian client who was being sued by the US. Why wouldn't she have been approved to enter? She first entered the US under President Bush. Also, Fusion GPS did work revolving around campaigning to influence and overturn the Magnitsky Act, which she was allegedly tied to and the initial excuse they gave for the meeting.

Steele was initially hired by Republicans in the primary to have something to attack Trump with. Much of it was corroborated. There are some questionable things like the hookers peeing on Trump at a Russian hotel. But, after Stormy, Karen McDougal and his history with women, particularly the NDA's and paying them off. Do you honestly think there isn't a decent likelihood it's true. I mean, that would be a reasonable educated opinion, no?

The heavily redacted documents released comprise an application to, and subsequent renewals by, judges on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court allowing the FBI to investigate Page, a foreign policy aide to the Trump campaign. But it's already been established by the House Intelligence Committee that the Russia investigation began after the FBI learned that another campaign aide, George Papadopoulos, had been approached by a Russian agent. The agent told Papadopoulos the Russians had incriminating information about Hillary Clinton, including emails, according to court documents. Papadopoulos then mentioned to an Australian diplomat that the Russians had "dirt" on Clinton, the Australians contacted the U.S. government, and the FBI began to take a look. The so-called dossier formed only a small part of the evidence used to meet the legal burden of establishing "probable cause" that Page was an agent of Russia.

The released documents contain dozens of pages that are entirely blacked out. People who have read them, including Rep. Adam Schiff, the ranking Democrat on the House Intelligence Committee, say they contain secret evidence establishing ties between Page and Russians. Evidence that goes beyond what was included in the dossier compiled by Christopher Steele. Frank Figliuzzi, the former FBI counterintelligence chief who is now an NBC News contributor, says that likely includes reporting from human sources and intercepted communications. Page, it should be said, denies that he was an agent of Russia and has not been charged with a crime. National security experts who have reviewed the document say that even the parts that aren't blacked out contain more than enough information to provide a judge reason to rule that the FBI had probable cause to believe that Page was an agent of Russia. Probable cause is much lower than the reasonable doubt the standard required to convict someone of a crime. Page had already appeared on the FBI's radar as a target of Russian intelligence recruitment in a separate spy case. He has acknowledged that he traveled to Moscow and met with Russian officials during the 2016 campaign. It would have been malpractice for the FBI, confronted with allegations that Page was helping the Russians, not to investigate.

Four different judges, all appointed by Republican presidents, signed off on electronic surveillance of Carter Page. And that's the end of a long process that involves multiple layers of review within the FBI and the Justice Department, current and former officials say. Anyone trying to put one over on the FISA court would be risking his or her career. It was not improper and perfectly normal for the FBI to disclose information from the Steele dossier as part of the warrant application.

Okay, now you're just getting into the deep state conspiracy ****, which while entertaining, has no real evidence to support. Let me guess, it was Hilary, in the billiard room, with the dossier. The only person trying to undermine Trump is his own team evidently. They evidently agree he's nuts and hide **** from him to keep him from damaging national security. And then right Op-eds admitting to it.

Um, no. Robert Mueller's investigation started May 17, 2017. You must be referring to one of the other countless investigations pertaining to this administration. There is plenty of reason if he is truly innocent. Why even practice or have a mock interview if you aren't considering doing it. And please spare me the bs of them denying it now. This admin has denied everything, only to have it comes out as truth later. Including but not limited to the multiple affairs and payments, the meeting in trump tower, Comey's firing, his inauguration size for gods-sake and about 3000 other things.

If you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to fear. According to Trump, it's like super duper evident he didn't collude, he is so awesome he would never need to. He is better and more honest than Lincoln. So what should he have to fear?
Ps, it's not perjury just because someone contradicts your claim. Especially not if you're the one being truthful. However, being truthful is the problem, isn't it?

Right, like the payments and affairs, the meeting in trump tower, firings, the inauguration size, etc. etc. etc. If you still trust this administration after all the proven lies, and smoke and mirrors, you will believe almost anything.
 
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fuzz77

All-Conference
Sep 19, 2012
12,163
1,423
0
Did you read that list? They're pretty loose with what they consider a lie, in other words if it varies from what the writer thinks, it's a lie.

Lets take the US Steel claim you've mevtioned. Trump clearly stated he received a call from them, the article that you copied clearly states US Steel hasn't made those announcements, that is 2 different things.
The wall is being built, the entire wall hasn't been funded, but sections in California are being built.

You misrepresented in your second sentence, it isn't 5000 provable lies, it's things the writer assumes is wrong in most counts or exaggerations.
Did you lie, or were you just wrong?

The way the past admin acted leading up to and after Trumps election should be bigger than watergate, which is what Trump was implying. They tried to undermine, successfully, an incoming President. Yet nary a word from them about it, in fact they won't even cover it. They made a mockery of the peaceful transisition of power.

Back to the point of NK, you can believe whatever you like, I know there is no evidence of paying off NK as the Clinton and Bush admins did with no avail, I know Obama flat out lied and secretly sent Iran billions of dollars to buy them off for 10 years.
Pretty loose with what they call a lie??? Seriously?

There has always been sections of the border "walled"...more accurately fenced and that part is and has been maintained. It isn't a new wall or expansion of existing structures.

Come on Bill..."U.S. Steel just announced that they are building six new steel mills," Trump said July 31 in Tampa.

THE FACTS: The Pittsburgh-based company has made no such announcement. U.S. Steel spokeswoman Meghan Cox declined to comment on Trump's claim but said any "operational changes" such as the opening of new mills would be "publicly announced" and "made available on our website" if it occurred.

How is that anything but a lie? He said they announced it, they say they have not. He also said Carrier was keeping jobs in Indiana...they moved those jobs to Mexico. He said Harley Davidson was keeping jobs here...Harley is moving those jobs to Europe.

Why the need to make claims for companies with whom he has no control???

How f'king stupid are you! If you say your tax cut is the largest in history but it only ranks #8... what is that? Is it true?
Trump’s tax cut is nearly 0.9 percent of GDP, much smaller than Reagan’s tax cut in 1981, which was 2.89 percent of GDP. Trump’s tax cut is the eighth largest since 1918 — and even smaller than two tax cuts passed under Barack Obama. That's not opinion, that's fact.

“The NATO meeting was phenomenal. You know they’re putting up hundreds of billions of dollars more, and I came out of that one where they said I was too rough on the other presidents and prime ministers of the countries, so OK, give me a break. But in the meantime we were carrying them on NATO. They weren’t paying their bills, or as you would say in your wonderful magazine, they were delinquent.”

Fact Check:
NATO’s guideline, established in 2006, is that defense expenditures should amount to 2 percent of each country’s gross domestic product. In 2014, countries agreed to meet this level by 2024. Defense spending by NATO members has steadily increased since then. Members spent an additional $11.7 billion over the past year. But the money would not be going to the United States or even necessarily to NATO; this is money that countries would spend to bolster their own military. NATO says spending has been boosted by $41 billion since Trump took office, not "hundreds of billions of dollars."

Here is the link to the complete list.
 

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,351
39,178
113
Pretty loose with what they call a lie??? Seriously?

There has always been sections of the border "walled"...more accurately fenced and that part is and has been maintained. It isn't a new wall or expansion of existing structures.

Come on Bill..."U.S. Steel just announced that they are building six new steel mills," Trump said July 31 in Tampa.

THE FACTS: The Pittsburgh-based company has made no such announcement. U.S. Steel spokeswoman Meghan Cox declined to comment on Trump's claim but said any "operational changes" such as the opening of new mills would be "publicly announced" and "made available on our website" if it occurred.

How is that anything but a lie? He said they announced it, they say they have not. He also said Carrier was keeping jobs in Indiana...they moved those jobs to Mexico. He said Harley Davidson was keeping jobs here...Harley is moving those jobs to Europe.

Why the need to make claims for companies with whom he has no control???

How f'king stupid are you! If you say your tax cut is the largest in history but it only ranks #8... what is that? Is it true?
Trump’s tax cut is nearly 0.9 percent of GDP, much smaller than Reagan’s tax cut in 1981, which was 2.89 percent of GDP. Trump’s tax cut is the eighth largest since 1918 — and even smaller than two tax cuts passed under Barack Obama. That's not opinion, that's fact.

“The NATO meeting was phenomenal. You know they’re putting up hundreds of billions of dollars more, and I came out of that one where they said I was too rough on the other presidents and prime ministers of the countries, so OK, give me a break. But in the meantime we were carrying them on NATO. They weren’t paying their bills, or as you would say in your wonderful magazine, they were delinquent.”

Fact Check:
NATO’s guideline, established in 2006, is that defense expenditures should amount to 2 percent of each country’s gross domestic product. In 2014, countries agreed to meet this level by 2024. Defense spending by NATO members has steadily increased since then. Members spent an additional $11.7 billion over the past year. But the money would not be going to the United States or even necessarily to NATO; this is money that countries would spend to bolster their own military. NATO says spending has been boosted by $41 billion since Trump took office, not "hundreds of billions of dollars."

Here is the link to the complete list.

Do you think US Steel May have told Trump that but wasn’t ready to announce publicly?
If they do in fact open 6 plants will that still be considered a lie, or will it simply be forgotten.

Is it possible Trump misspoke about the NATO money, or is it automatically a lie. Fact if the matter is he was getting hammered by the media over NATO, yet the countries raised their funding by 41 billion.

He did save jobs at carrier in Indiana at the time, what happens afterwards didn’t make his statement a lie, or Harley either.

Tax cut was largest monetarily speaking, and covered more people. Again, not a lie
 

TheGrafSpot

Sophomore
Aug 9, 2018
140
132
0
Do you think US Steel May have told Trump that but wasn’t ready to announce publicly?
If they do in fact open 6 plants will that still be considered a lie, or will it simply be forgotten.

Is it possible Trump misspoke about the NATO money, or is it automatically a lie. Fact if the matter is he was getting hammered by the media over NATO, yet the countries raised their funding by 41 billion.

He did save jobs at carrier in Indiana at the time, what happens afterwards didn’t make his statement a lie, or Harley either.

Tax cut was largest monetarily speaking, and covered more people. Again, not a lie
Have you ever seen a steel plant? The permits, regulations, zoning and so forth required for 1 is huge, let alone 6. They can't build a new restaurant in a town without everyone knowing months in advance, even before ground breaks. You honestly believe 6 steel plants would be under construction and not made the news somewhere. Every conservative news media outlet would eat it up as political talking points for the election in 2 months.

If I stop a building from falling today, but it crashes tomorrow, did I really save it, or just prolong it's inevitability?

That tax cut covered the wealthy and provided minute differences to the middle and poor class. While I credit something successful during this administration, it should have been a much better plan for the middle and poor class, and in my opinion, further raised taxes on the wealthy, corporations, trusts and so forth. It also should have been extended for a longer period of time and worked to lower the deficit, instead of further increasing it. Another campaign lie.
 

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,351
39,178
113
It was widely publicized at the time that the US would have to pay for NK coming to Singapore, and that it would have to through a 3rd party. However that wasn’t my point, my point was we haven’t made any monetary payment to NK now. We received Korean Vet remains and hostages in return. If it all folded up now the US has given zero. I have no doubt that if they do give up their nukes they will expect payment or resources, but we aren’t at that point now.

All the criminal acts Mueller has charged were from years before the campaign and have nothing to do with the campaign. People are pleading guilty for reduced sentences, it really is that simple. There is zero evidence of Russia colluding with Trump in the election, none.
Page isn’t, wasn’t and never was an agent of Russia. The fbi came to that conclusion in 2013, yet right there in the FISA warrant they claim he is, that’s 1 lie, they also used the dossier as the primary reason for the warrant knowing full well they had no idea if it was true or not, then used a news article that they gave the info for as back up on the dossier, lie 2. Then claimed the dossier wasn’t the main claim for the warrant, lie 3.
You want to claim an anonymous, unelected official is protecting the country by undermining Trump admin, and then the next breath act like the deep state is a fairy tale?
It’s right there in plain sight now.

You also don’t understand perjury, especially if you simply want to get an indictment. One person under oath disagreeing with your statement can be claimed as perjury. Especially when an indictment is your goal.

The Russia investigation started in July 2016, Mueller just picked up the mantle.

Adam Schiff is a loon.
 

AustinTXCat

Hall of Famer
Jan 7, 2003
52,146
306,665
113
 

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,351
39,178
113
Have you ever seen a steel plant? The permits, regulations, zoning and so forth required for 1 is huge, let alone 6. They can't build a new restaurant in a town without everyone knowing months in advance, even before ground breaks. You honestly believe 6 steel plants would be under construction and not made the news somewhere. Every conservative news media outlet would eat it up as political talking points for the election in 2 months.

If I stop a building from falling today, but it crashes tomorrow, did I really save it, or just prolong it's inevitability?

That tax cut covered the wealthy and provided minute differences to the middle and poor class. While I credit something successful during this administration, it should have been a much better plan for the middle and poor class, and in my opinion, further raised taxes on the wealthy, corporations, trusts and so forth. It also should have been extended for a longer period of time and worked to lower the deficit, instead of further increasing it. Another campaign lie.

I worked in a steel plant,not all steel mills are huge, especially if they don’t have smelters and simply roll out steel. You seem to have a hard time understanding written word.
I never said and neither did Trump that 6 were under construction, he simply stated they told them they were going to open 6, and they yet might just not ready to be public about it. Or he could’ve misunderstood opening with reopening or simply exaggerating.

You think thousands of dollars is minute for a working class family? Obviously you never supported a family on a blue collar job.
The tax cut didn’t cause the deficit this year, we were already going to have one, I do wish he would cutback on spending.
I also understand why corporations received the cut, to bring onshore billions of dollars. That money does no good to the people if it’s sitting in a foreign country. Bring the money back, give corporations a reason to invest in the US and it’s working.

How anyone can be upset with the results Trump has gotten for Americans blows my mind. The Country is in better shape today than it’s been in 20 years.
 

Kaizer Sosay

Heisman
Nov 29, 2007
25,706
30,734
0
Serious questions...how does wearing socks with cops depicted as pigs coincide with the "stop police brutality" mantra of Kap's original intentions. Does that type of action help or hinder the relations between the police and the community?

Does wearing those socks "raise awareness" about the brutality or does it encourage kids (who see Kap as a hero) to have a negative attitude towards the police? Maybe it does both??? But if there's even a hint of the later then how does that help accomplish the original goal???

If one of those kids, later in life, is stopped or questioned by a cop and then calls the police "pigs" and has a bad attitude and is noncooperative...how will that help to keep that situation from possibly getting out of control and maybe the cop using unnecessary force?

IMHO...Kap is in an outstanding spot right now to facilitate REAL change. Use his "2nd 15 minutes" and this latest Nike campaign in conjunction with a genuine effort to mend the relationship between cops and communities. Go out into these communities and help set up programs to do such things. Be the face of a serious lobbying effort at the federal level to institute a mandatory police training program nationwide (one of Kap's original complaints was that cops aren't trained sufficiently).

Of course he is under no obligation to do any of that. But if he really wanted change...if that's what all this is about and why it all started...then why not actively do something productive towards those ends?

Maybe he is already doing those types of things. Someone please enlighten me if so.
 
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TheGrafSpot

Sophomore
Aug 9, 2018
140
132
0
I worked in a steel plant,not all steel mills are huge, especially if they don’t have smelters and simply roll out steel. You seem to have a hard time understanding written word.
I never said and neither did Trump that 6 were under construction, he simply stated they told them they were going to open 6, and they yet might just not ready to be public about it. Or he could’ve misunderstood opening with reopening or simply exaggerating.

You think thousands of dollars is minute for a working class family? Obviously you never supported a family on a blue collar job.
The tax cut didn’t cause the deficit this year, we were already going to have one, I do wish he would cutback on spending.
I also understand why corporations received the cut, to bring onshore billions of dollars. That money does no good to the people if it’s sitting in a foreign country. Bring the money back, give corporations a reason to invest in the US and it’s working.

How anyone can be upset with the results Trump has gotten for Americans blows my mind. The Country is in better shape today than it’s been in 20 years.
Regardless of Square footage, I've never seen a steel plant that looked small. Have you? According the google the avg size is over 250,000 sq ft. Doesn't seem like one that would be easily concealed and hidden from the public for whatever reasons you seem to think they would do that? I also don't think small keeps it from zoning regulations, building licenses, land appraisals, and approvals. You ever heard of that? Nah, didn't think so. Also, can you think of a house member or local candidate who would not be promoting the hell out of this for election points? You know he's full of ****. Also, he did say 6, then 7 then 8. As the lie became more obvious to the public, he felt the need to increase it's margins.

1000's of dollars? I'm about as middle class as it gets, and I can assure my family didn't gain 1000's of dollars. I think we are getting about 13 dollars more a paycheck total. That's 350 a year. I'll agree more is better, but that's a far cry from 1000's or enough to make any noticeable difference in quality of life me my family. What the hell kind of job do I need to get to get that kind of increase and who do I talk to?

You think thousands of dollars is minute for a working class family? Obviously you never supported a family on a blue collar job.
The tax cut didn’t cause the deficit this year, we were already going to have one, I do wish he would cutback on spending.
I also understand why corporations received the cut, to bring onshore billions of dollars. That money does no good to the people if it’s sitting in a foreign country. Bring the money back, give corporations a reason to invest in the US and it’s working.

It's adding 1.5 trillion to the deficit. What the hell are you talking about? It's a rolling deficit, not just annual.
Corporations were already generating record profits and the market was continually breaking records? They weren't giving it back to their employees then, they haven't now. Not even after the tax cut in most cases. They continue to give their executives massive bonuses and raises. It does even less good there. And they also aren't bringing more or better jobs with them. As we see, those are still being outsourced more and more. Where is it working? The economy was already improved in record levels under that administration. Trump has been fortunate enough to sustain that growth and claim credit for it now. If you know **** about economic policy you would know changes take more than year to impact the economy in any measurable way. He hasn't even been in office long enough to have a considerable impact on anything he has done economically. Of course, other than implementing his tariffs that have caused economic damage from tariffs against the US, including job losses.

I would love to know what country you are living in? It sure as **** can't be America. Drug crimes are at an all time high, as are overdoses. Crime is up in essentially every city. Homeless and poverty levels are at an all time high. Our standing on the global stage is an absolute joke. We have a country on the brink of potentially another civil war. Gun violence is at record highs, as are hate crimes, mass shootings, domestic violence and sexual assaults. Which that last one is probably a given when you consider we have a president who advocated for sexual assault of women on tape and said they liked it. We’re 22nd in literacy, 35th in math, 24th in science, 49th in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, 5th in median household income, number 4 in labor force and number 4 in exports. We lead the world in only three categories: number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real and defense spending, where we spend more than the next 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are allies. So no, we aren't better than we were 20 years ago.

20+ years ago we stood up for what was right. We fought for moral reason. We passed laws, struck down laws, for moral reason. We waged wars on poverty, not on poor people. We sacrificed, we cared about our neighbors, we put our money where our mouths were and we never beat our chest. We built great, big things, made ungodly technological advances, explored the universe, cured diseases and we cultivated the world’s greatest artists AND the world’s greatest economy. We reached for the stars, acted like men. We aspired to intelligence, we didn’t belittle it. It didn’t make us feel inferior. We didn’t identify ourselves by who we voted for in the last election and we didn’t scare so easy. We were able to be all these things and do all these things because we were informed… by great men, men who were revered.
 
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TheGrafSpot

Sophomore
Aug 9, 2018
140
132
0
Serious questions...how does wearing socks with cops depicted as pigs coincide with the "stop police brutality" mantra of Kap's original intentions. Does that type of action help or hinder the relations between the police and the community?

Does wearing those socks "raise awareness" about the brutality or does it encourage kids (who see Kap as a hero) to have a negative attitude towards the police? Maybe it does both??? But if there's even a hint of the later then how does that help accomplish the original goal???

If one of those kids, later in life, is stopped or questioned by a cop and then calls the police "pigs" and has a bad attitude and is noncooperative...how will that help to keep that situation from possibly getting out of control and maybe the cop using unnecessary force?

IMHO...Kap is in an outstanding spot right now to facilitate REAL change. Use his "2nd 15 minutes" and this latest Nike campaign in conjunction with a genuine effort to mend the relationship between cops and communities. Go out into these communities and help set up programs to do such things. Be the face of a serious lobbying effort at the federal level to institute a mandatory police training program nationwide (one of Kap's original complaints was that cops aren't trained sufficiently).

Of course he is under no obligation to do any of that. But if he really wanted change...if that's what all this is about and why it all started...then why not actively do something productive towards those ends?

Maybe he is already doing those types of things. Someone please enlighten me if so.
A more serious question would be why in 2018 are we still having to deal with racism in our society? Sure we have a lot of other issues that need attention as well, but that does not lessen the impact or need for change regarding racism in America, and particularly amongst out law enforcement.

Instead of just thinking how we can out protest each other and creating more issues, why not just address the ones we have head on and look for an actual solution to have a positive improvement going forward. It's really not as hard as people make it out to be.

And yes, Kap has been donating millions of his own money and countless hours trying to improve indigent communities. I don't know if he has worked with local law enforcement or not, but that is a good suggestion. A lot of law enforcement, first responders and former/current military personal agree with him and don't seem too offended by his actions. I'm sure they have all been called worse things than pigs. It does suck, but it sucks worse to see we are still at this current state of mind by many in 2018.
 
Feb 21, 2006
8,403
9,162
0
I would love to know what country you are living in? It sure as **** can't be America. Drug crimes are at an all time high, as are overdoses. Crime is up in essentially every city. Homeless and poverty levels are at an all time high. Out standing on the global stage is an absolute joke. We have a country on the brink of potentially another civil war. Gun violence is at record highs, as are hate crimes, mass shootings. We’re 7th in literacy, 27th in math, 22nd in science, 49th in life expectancy, 178th in infant mortality, 3rd in median household income, number 4 in labor force and number 4 in exports. We lead the world in only three categories: number of incarcerated citizens per capita, number of adults who believe angels are real and defense spending, where we spend more than the next 26 countries combined, 25 of whom are allies. So no, we aren't better than we were 20 years ago.
.

Gosh damn...I'm packing my bags and getting the f*ck out...

People should be leaving and not entering this place by the millions.

The hell with a wall, save some money and post that all up and down the border. People will see that and say "F*ck it, if we're walking into that mess we might as well go home..."
 

Cawood86_rivals

Heisman
Feb 20, 2005
36,711
64,713
0
I have a high opinion of myself, yet worship someone else? Lol, that makes no sense.

No that was your view. You just seem to struggle remembering or want to move away from it now. I don't blame you.

How is that by my standard? You seem confused. You are the one who claims that because Castro is on his shirt along with Malcom X he must solely represent Castro's beliefs. You also indicated all cops were good, none were bad, and should be able to target who ever they please. No? That puts you in common with the Gestapo.

Are you saying all black people and Hispanic people are in gangs, particularly MS-13 and comparing them to flies? Wow, That's a pretty lofty statement man. And you think Germans are Nazi's and Italians are in the Mafia? So you think Cal is Mafia? Wow man, that's pretty bold stuff.

You think I am come across like that? That is really flattering man. And I've never been to NYC or LA, not sure I would know how elite they are or appear. I do know that KY has one of the lowest literacy and education rates in the nation. And most people on here are likely from KY. So, I am a bit aware of the target audience partaking in these forums.

You sure seem to be taking it to a personal level for someone who doesn't care or isn't worked up over it.
Must be hard for you.... all those words and saying nothing. Original thought is hard for you. I realize now what kind of person I'm dealing with.
You say stuff I didn't say to hide the ludicrous lies you say. I get it now. I did say Castro by mistake and that's all you talk about. You're special. Very special. Don't ever let anyone tell you different.
Obviously have trouble with reading comprehension. Maybe have someone help you look metaphors and analogies. It's ok to ask for help. Good luck to you in overcoming your challenges.
 

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,351
39,178
113
Dude, lighten up on the manifestos, and spare me greater than thou BS. I know exactly what happened election night with the market, and what’s happened since, and that most definitely was not occurring under Obama. The economy was on shaky ground, which is exactly the reason the Fed kept interest rates at zero for Obama’s entire presidency, longer than anytime in history, talk about living on the edge. They’ve risen throughout Trumps tenure because his policies are working.
The CBO predicted 1.5 trillion over a 10 year period for the tax cuts, they’re guessing. They also said the Iraq war would cost 79 billion, variables they cannot foresee change.

You keep conflating 2 different things, I know exactly how big a steel mill is, I or you know what was told to Trump, my point was US Steel May have told him they had plans to reopen or build 6 new plants who knows, but his policies are working.
Aluminum plants and still mills have reopened, one nearby me rehiring 350 workers, paper mill reopening with 500 employees, and that’s just within 50 miles of me.

All those things you listed are exactly why Trump was elected, you wonderfully stated it precisely, to make America great again because our political leaders had f*cked us.
 

Kaizer Sosay

Heisman
Nov 29, 2007
25,706
30,734
0
A more serious question would be why in 2018 are we still having to deal with racism in our society? Sure we have a lot of other issues that need attention as well, but that does not lessen the impact or need for change regarding racism in America, and particularly amongst out law enforcement.

Instead of just thinking how we can out protest each other and creating more issues, why not just address the ones we have head on and look for an actual solution to have a positive improvement going forward. It's really not as hard as people make it out to be.

And yes, Kap has been donating millions of his own money and countless hours trying to improve indigent communities. I don't know if he has worked with local law enforcement or not, but that is a good suggestion. A lot of law enforcement, first responders and former/current military personal agree with him and don't seem too offended by his actions. I'm sure they have all been called worse things than pigs. It does suck, but it sucks worse to see we are still at this current state of mind by many in 2018.

No doubt racism still exists. We have come a long way in this country but still have a ways to go. And I am open to any and all real discussions on solving those issues. But I would start any discussion by saying that identity politics is a huge deterrent to bettering race relations.

But back to the point at hand (and thread topic)...this whole thing began about police brutality. On that subject...isn't calling all cops "pigs" and/or depicting them all as "pigs" condemning an entire community of police officers for the actions of a few? How does that help?

That's great that Kap is donating money. But I am more intrigued by the "countless hours" he is spending trying to help those communities. Can you expand on that? How exactly is he spending that time? What type of programs? Who exactly is he working with? Who is he spending that time with in those communities? I'm lazy...so don't "google it" @ me.

Body cams and cruiser cams is a real solution to solving the police brutality problem. Many police forces have implemented those programs. Need more real solutions like that.

Protests are fine. "Bringing awareness" is great. Donating money is awesome. But real problems need real solutions. How is that time and money being spent?

Don't you think a national effort led by a Nike endorsed Kap to improve police relations in local communities would be a real solution? Right here...right now...while the iron is hot. Those communities might have a little more respect for the police and what kinds of decisions they have to make and why they act certain ways in certain situations. And the police officers might just have a little more respect for the people in those communities if they got to know them on a more personal level. Help them to understand why the citizens think and act they way they do in certain situations.

I would guarantee you that Trump would be on board with that type of thing. Imagine that! A national program led by Kap with the full endorsement of the Trump White House! Talk about bringing people together. Talk about sparking real change. What a uniquely outstanding opportunity that would be. Maybe even race relations could improve a little as a byproduct.

But instead here we are. Sides pitted against one another. Fostered by the media who is just looking to sensationalize a story...any story...because controversy sells. And the left who is emersed in identity politics to keep their base. And Trump with his tweets that keep the fires burning.

Plenty of people to blame. Not enough real solutions.
 

TheGrafSpot..

Redshirt
Sep 6, 2018
28
0
0
Dude, lighten up on the manifestos, and spare me greater than thou BS. I know exactly what happened election night with the market, and what’s happened since, and that most definitely was not occurring under Obama. The economy was on shaky ground, which is exactly the reason the Fed kept interest rates at zero for Obama’s entire presidency, longer than anytime in history, talk about living on the edge. They’ve risen throughout Trumps tenure because his policies are working.
The CBO predicted 1.5 trillion over a 10 year period for the tax cuts, they’re guessing. They also said the Iraq war would cost 79 billion, variables they cannot foresee change.

You keep conflating 2 different things, I know exactly how big a steel mill is, I or you know what was told to Trump, my point was US Steel May have told him they had plans to reopen or build 6 new plants who knows, but his policies are working.
Aluminum plants and still mills have reopened, one nearby me rehiring 350 workers, paper mill reopening with 500 employees, and that’s just within 50 miles of me.

All those things you listed are exactly why Trump was elected, you wonderfully stated it precisely, to make America great again because our political leaders had f*cked us.
I'm guessing you have never stepped foot in an economic class? The stock market was at a record high before Trump came into office and has continued to set new records. It's also fluctuated like crazy and took some considerable losses at times. Luckily it's rebounded because of the economic stability that was generated over the last several years. Pre-Trump. The feds would have raised interest rates regardless, it was always the trajectory. The economy has been growing like clock work the last several years. Unemployment dropped monthly for the last several years of Obama's presidency. Stating otherwise is completely ignoring fact. Which policies specifically are you talking about?

Aluminum and steel are two if the industries actually improving as a result of the tariffs, just not at the rates DT has you believing. He literally has you believing jobs are coming to plants that don't even exist. And 200,000 square ft isn't exactly small as you were stating. And if he wasn't sure what he heard or what he was saying, why did the number continue to grow over time? Also, how do you know how big this steel plant is, it hasn't been built. That was just a lie you fell for. Don't feel bad, he and fellow republicans have convinced the coal miners jobs are coming back for years. All the while our coal dependency becomes smaller and smaller. And more and more jobs are created in sustainable energy projects, yet they wait for these coal jobs that are never coming.

FYI, Iraq was never meant to be a 10 year war looking for weapons which didn't exist.

I see you ditched that whole America is the greatest it's been in 20 years rhetoric after being presented with factual numbers. Good call, I would have avoided that one too.

Lol, those numbers where higher before he was in office. Doesn't look like he is making them better so far.
 

TheGrafSpot..

Redshirt
Sep 6, 2018
28
0
0
Must be hard for you.... all those words and saying nothing. Original thought is hard for you. I realize now what kind of person I'm dealing with.
You say stuff I didn't say to hide the ludicrous lies you say. I get it now. I did say Castro by mistake and that's all you talk about. You're special. Very special. Don't ever let anyone tell you different.
Obviously have trouble with reading comprehension. Maybe have someone help you look metaphors and analogies. It's ok to ask for help. Good luck to you in overcoming your challenges.
When you repeatedly have tell other people you argue with they have a comprehension problem, it's probably not their comprehension that is the real issue.

If it's nothing, why is it getting to you or bothering you enough into replying? It's obviously doing enough to arouse a response from you each time? Why is this?

Where did I say stuff you did not say? Please point them out.

"Said Castro by mistake and that's all you talk about?" What are you talking about? Have you been drinking or something along those lines?

"Obviously have trouble with reading comprehension." Are you saying you have trouble with reading comprehension?
"Maybe have someone help you look metaphors and analogies." Why and how do I look metaphors and analogies?
See, I don't think it's reading comprehension as much as it might be your lack of typing skill and being able to properly articulate a well-reasoned response, including factual support. But my all means, please tell yourself whatever you need.
 

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,351
39,178
113
I'm guessing you have never stepped foot in an economic class? The stock market was at a record high before Trump came into office and has continued to set new records. It's also fluctuated like crazy and took some considerable losses at times. Luckily it's rebounded because of the economic stability that was generated over the last several years. Pre-Trump. The feds would have raised interest rates regardless, it was always the trajectory. The economy has been growing like clock work the last several years. Unemployment dropped monthly for the last several years of Obama's presidency. Stating otherwise is completely ignoring fact. Which policies specifically are you talking about?

Aluminum and steel are two if the industries actually improving as a result of the tariffs, just not at the rates DT has you believing. He literally has you believing jobs are coming to plants that don't even exist. And 200,000 square ft isn't exactly small as you were stating. And if he wasn't sure what he heard or what he was saying, why did the number continue to grow over time? Also, how do you know how big this steel plant is, it hasn't been built. That was just a lie you fell for. Don't feel bad, he and fellow republicans have convinced the coal miners jobs are coming back for years. All the while our coal dependency becomes smaller and smaller. And more and more jobs are created in sustainable energy projects, yet they wait for these coal jobs that are never coming.

FYI, Iraq was never meant to be a 10 year war looking for weapons which didn't exist.

I see you ditched that whole America is the greatest it's been in 20 years rhetoric after being presented with factual numbers. Good call, I would have avoided that one too.

Lol, those numbers where higher before he was in office. Doesn't look like he is making them better so far.

You are literally making things as if I said them.
Unemployment did drop, but so did what was considered employed, as well as people simply falling out of unemployment coverage and folks that just quit looking for work.

Most industries are improving, all around the nation. So the plant he was at, that was reopening when he made that statement wasn’t really there? I never stated that those plants were being built at that very moment. I think you know that, I simply stated US Steel May have told them they had plans for them.
You do understand the difference, right? You’re the one that brought up size of the plant, not me.

The steel mill I worked at was not large, some are literally cities upon themselves.
The stock market was flat and had been flat up until election night. When Trump won it immediately took off, you don’t need an economics degree to see it, and that was due to the market assuming rightly that Trump would release the regulation choke hold on it.

Coal isn’t being replaced by sustainable energy, it’s being replaced by gas and efficiency.

So you mean the CBO didn’t foresee what could happen in Iraq, only that if everything went exactly as they calculated it would cost an amount 20 times less than it actually did? So you’re agreeing that they’re probably wrong on this as well.

If you receive only $350 dollar a year in tax cut on your pay a year you’re either lying or make less the 35k a year.

You have provided no factual support, you simply listed numbers, which going by how you have hard time grasping onto details of what I have and haven’t written leave me skeptical.
 
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TheGrafSpot..

Redshirt
Sep 6, 2018
28
0
0
You are literally making things as if I said them.
Unemployment did drop, but so did what was considered employed, as well as people simply falling out of unemployment coverage and folks that just quit looking for work.

Most industries are improving, all around the nation. So the plant he was at, that was reopening when he made that statement wasn’t really there? I never stated that those plants were being built at that very moment. I think you know that, I simply stated US Steel May have told them they had plans for them.
You do understand the difference, right? You’re the one that brought up size of the plant, not me.

The steel mill I worked at was not large, some are literally cities upon themselves.
The stock market was flat and had been flat up until election night. When Trump won it immediately took off, you don’t need an economics degree to see it, and that was due to the market assuming rightly that Trump would release the regulation choke hold on it.

Coal isn’t being replaced by sustainable energy, it’s being replaced by gas and efficiency.

So you mean the CBO didn’t foresee what could happen in Iraq, only that if everything went exactly as they calculated it would cost an amount 20 times less than it actually did? So you’re agreeing that they’re probably wrong on this as well.

If you receive only $350 dollar a year in tax cut on your pay a year you’re either lying or make less the 35k a year.

You have provided no factual support, you simply listed numbers, which going by how you have hard time grasping onto details of what I have and haven’t written leave me skeptical.
Please tell me what I made up? And some of that did occur and is still occurring, but that narrative was heavily inflated by the conservative media
We saw record growth under Obama, To ignore that or state otherwise demonstrated a bias and ignorance.

No, most industries are somewhat stagnant at the moment. Some are growing, mainly steel and aluminum and certain energy sectors, mainly renewables started under Obama.

We're talking about what Trump said. He said 6, then 7, then 8 would be built. The company as denied comment and no evidence suggest anything of the sort. I brought up size to reference it would be hard to conceal or hide, because you seemed to suggest they may not have announced yet. When people can figure out what a 2000 sq ft building is going to be months before it's actually completed. I would imagine a large steel plant wouldn't be hard to figure out. The job it would bring alone would be a major talking point for house candidates in a those districts. Particularity for Republicans. You honestly think they wouldn't be all over it if true?

How large is not large?

Ohh, you're higher than a kite if you believe this. It's completely untrue. Please provide evidence to support it. Should be super easy to find if true. And no, Faux news is not a credible news source.

Coal isn’t being replaced by sustainable energy, it’s being replaced by gas and efficiency.
Solar panels, wind turbines, alternative fuel sources, compost and so forth are all growing incredibly quick and energy companies are utilizing it like crazy, particularly solar panels and buyback. Gas and efficiency aren't helping coal either, but the larger issue is why lie to the coal industry and workers. Just admit it's a dying industry and work to replace the jobs.

No, the tax cut has a regulated period which expires. The war did not. How do you not understand the difference? Oh, wait, maybe because you know jack **** about economics. Could they be off a few million, sure. When talking 1.5 trillion are you really concerned with a few million?

No, I make in the 70's. It's because those numbers are inflated bull-**** you want to pass off as fact. Show some actual evidence to support your claims or they will just be shot down as such. If you want to pass ******** off as fact, I suggest a better bull.

You have provided no factual support, you simply listed numbers, which going by how you have hard time grasping onto details of what I have and haven’t written leave me skeptical.

Here you go https://amp-businessinsider-com.cdn...errer=https://www.google.com&amp_tf=From %1$s
 

Bill Derington

Heisman
Jan 21, 2003
21,351
39,178
113
Record growth where? Are you speaking of the market? Where was the growth in the economy? He didn’t average 1% growth per year his entire Presidency.
The economy took off the moment Trump was elected gaining over 7000 pts.

What is your deal with the size of a plant, and why are you hung up on it? I’m not saying that an actual steel mill is being built right now in secrecy, I’m saying US Steel May have told Trump they have plans, meaning not finalized, to add 6 plants it’s not that hard to understand, or it could’ve been 6 current plants, who knows but the steel industry adding jobs and opening either closed or new plants.
So now you get to determine what is and isn’t credible news? Why wouldn’t Fox News be credible? Because you don’t like it?

So you’re saying every possible scenario in regards to how the tax cuts play out, and what companies do with that money have been accurately calculated 10 years down the road? Bull, it’s laughable that you think they’ll only be off a few million, that’s a GD joke and you have the nerve to question me about economics, you’re a child.

So you believe some numbers, but don’t others, hmm. Seems as if you’re selectively choosing what you like and really don’t have a clue be it economics, steel mills or where your electricity is coming from. You’re getting more than that in tax cuts or you don’t make that much money.

I work at a power plant now, have for 18 years, coal is not being replaced by fu*kkng compost that’s ignorant. Energy companies have always had buy back, that isn’t something new, in fact they’re starting to shy away from it because it isn’t dependable and adversely affects the grid. That’s the problem with renewables, they MUST have a reliable (fossil) back up. The company I work for has closed 4 coal plants, every single megawatt has been replaced by Gas, not renewables. That’s the dirty little secret no one wants let out.
Coal is energy, energy is money and the US is loaded with coal. It’s only a matter of time until someone figures out how to use it, you can take that to the bank.

Trump is good for the economy, a good economy is good for the country. The Dems know it which is why they have to resort to ridiculous antics to persuade voters to vote for them.You dipshits have been throwing a tantrum for 18 months because you didn’t get your way. Good luck with that

Speaking of our world standing now, we aren’t paying a country billions of dollars after they boarded one of our naval vessels, to buy time.
We haven’t ignored a country being invaded that we swore to protect if they gave up nukes, Ukraine.
We aren’t back tracking on red lines after chemical attacks on children.
China is pushing us around or building unsinkable military installations in international waters.
Our ships aren’t getting buzzed on routine basis by Russia.
NATO is now paying their share or arming themselves up to past predetermined levels.
How’s that for world standing.

You’re link was for 2016, you’re right, Obama sucked at education too.
 
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Cawood86_rivals

Heisman
Feb 20, 2005
36,711
64,713
0
When you repeatedly have tell other people you argue with they have a comprehension problem, it's probably not their comprehension that is the real issue.

If it's nothing, why is it getting to you or bothering you enough into replying? It's obviously doing enough to arouse a response from you each time? Why is this?

Where did I say stuff you did not say? Please point them out.

"Said Castro by mistake and that's all you talk about?" What are you talking about? Have you been drinking or something along those lines?

"Obviously have trouble with reading comprehension." Are you saying you have trouble with reading comprehension?
"Maybe have someone help you look metaphors and analogies." Why and how do I look metaphors and analogies?
See, I don't think it's reading comprehension as much as it might be your lack of typing skill and being able to properly articulate a well-reasoned response, including factual support. But my all means, please tell yourself whatever you need.
Your whole post proves my point. Thanks
 
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