Yes, and only federal legislation can create the guard rails. But, as we've discussed, Congress may remain deadlocked on this issue indefinitely. There is no way forward without a bipartisan approach, and Democrats and Republicans don't agree about what should be done.
NIL bill expected in House would provide legal help sought by NCAA-Update- New Bill Introduced July 25, 2023
- Thread starter Knight Shift
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Would be interested in hearing AD Hobbs opinion on the additional expense of this salary cap.
And for anyone complaining about "fans having to pay for the players" I can guarantee that if/when they players start being paid by the schools the next day, AD Hobbs is saying "We need fans to donate to the BIG Players Fund. We can't afford to max out the salary cap unless the fans step up."
The actual expense is still going to be on the fans.
It'll be "our" fault if we can't fully fund the salary cap.
Maybe not. The schools can pay openly for salaries. They can do that with a portion of TV revenue. But NIL payments must be by outsiders; the school can't make them. So instead the school must encourage fans to fund collectives like KTR that arrange NIL deals.
The schools can openly pay for scholarships now. And they mandate donations to help fund them.
The schools can openly pay for facilities, coaching staffs and all other sorts of AD expenses.
Doesn't stop them from soliciting (guilting....) fans into paying for coach buyouts and everything else.
You're right. But the difference is that the schools are allowed to pay for facilities, etc. So they don't have to rely on donations, although of course they want them. But they can't pay for NIL, and so that has to be entirely paid for by outsiders.
Yes but my point is that moving from "Fans paying NIL" to "AD paying players" doesn't actually remove the burden from fans. Or dependency on fans.
Fanbases will likely still be responsible regardless.
The reason that a bill has a chance to go bipartisan now vs. before is that NIL is active now vs. before when it was always about passing a bill that would then implement it. Without regulation there are surely millions of tax dollars not being accounted for by Uncle Sam. If schools were brought in to regulate, the pot of taxable income surely increases by a number that is substantial. As we know, money tends to change the playing field on things. Will it be enough here is the question?
What money isn’t being accounted for?
NIL is taxable currently as earned income, I believe.
What money are schools going to uncover?
He can answer for himself, but he may be thinking that it will be easier for the IRS to know about NIL income if there is, say, a requirement that all NIL agreements be disclosed to the government, just as 1099's and W-4's disclose income to the government so that it can be more easily taxed.
The Nebraska president's comment is odd: the NCAA can't do very much because whatever it does is subject to litigation as a violation of federal anti-trust laws or state laws allowing athletes to earn income from NIL. Maybe he's saying that the NCAA should try to enforce its current rules restricting the use of NIL as a recruiting tool, but even that might bring litigation.
1099s would be required. To require more than any other endorsement deal would be problematic. You could audit NIL groups to see if they filed the required 1099s, but that would only cover some of the payors.
I defer to your knowledge about this. . But as I understand it, only businesses file 1099's, and there might be NIL arrangement under which individuals are paying for use of NIL. I would think that "might" be the case when a booster is paying the player, although I would also think that usually the booster is channeling the money through a business. In addition, it might be possible that a business paying for NIL might "forget" to file a 1099 if NIL is not something the business usually contracts to use. But perhaps these are long shots. BTW, I think you'd find there are lots of situations in which a regulated entity discloses income and payments to someone other than the IRS.
Thanks. I wonder how often they do. It would seem easy for a indivdual payor and payee to try to conceal a taxable transaction by not having the payor submit a 1099. This might be less likely for a business that routinely submits 1099s. But I'm certainly not an expert in this area.
Not quite that clear cut. You don't have to give your lawn service one, but a sole proprietor would have to supply a subcontractor with one. What kind of entity is a booster group?
All for-profit entities have to file them. And non-profit corporations have to file them. Unless you were an individual who was describing the payment as a gift, you're gonna have to file one. And since you're literally paying for use of the person's "name, image or likeness," good luck categorizing it as a gift.
Lawn service isn't a gift. In the other hand payment for an NIL for promotion of either a profit or not for profit business activity would require a 1099. BTW, how would you define the activity of a booster group ?
Assuming they are not-for-profit? I'd consider them a non-profit charity organization.
One issue in the legislation is expected to be whether collectives like Knights of the Raritan qualify as charities under the Internal Revenue Code. If not, donations will be taxable even by donors who itemize deductions.
Someone alert mildone. Hookers and blow next to be legalized.
My group of eight became six, then four, then two. Wasn't worth the bother to tailgate so the entire experience lost its worth. Now have none.
It’s naive if anyone thinks all of it is getting reported and accounted for. This is a huge new source of taxable income for Uncle Sam. Over time, audits instill the necessary fear of getting caught which generally results in compliance. But they are very expensive. It would be a lot easier and cheaper for Uncle Sam to just have the universities track everything.
True statement by Eli Drinkwitz, mocked by MBG:
But then again, is a football coach worth millions of dollars per year for never having a winning record at Mizzou? Fair question- maybe these coaches pumping the fans for more $ could throw a million or two dollars of their salary towards the cause to save their own arses.
In our society, people are not paid on the basis of "desert." They are paid according to supply and demand. There aren't many elite (or close-to-elite) basketball players, and for better or worse people want to watch them and buy products they are linked to. In the past, the schools got the financial benefit from their players' NIL. Now the players get it. It seems to me that's better, not worse. In either instance, the underlying demand exists. The only question is who will profit from it -- and it might as well be the players, whose talent and hard work create a product people want to watch.
In principle, I agree, but to a limited extent. Does Bobby Benchwarmer "deserve" and NIL deal? Many don't think so, or maybe some basic pittance or minimum wage, which perhaps would be his or her free tuition, room and board. Another problem is a freshman player commanding insane NIL money without having demonstrating their "worth" to "their team" on the college athletics stage. Coach Schiano has alluded to this issue in a couple of recent interviews. Taking supply and demand into account, maybe some players should be thankful for the free education and room and board.
Will reiterate again, that perhaps the coaches making multiple millions of dollars should cough up some of their bloated salaries to the NIL collectives. Or, perhaps the legislation should allow the schools to make contributions to the NIL collectives, or for that matter, stop this whole NIL collective charade and allow the schools to pay the deserving student athletes directly. Deserving or deserved, means earned to me. You don't get money for doing nothing but sitting on the bench or not meaningfully contributing to the team effort.
If you win the lottery, did you "earn" that? Bobby Benchwarmer won the lottery -- he is blessed with enough talent to be qualified to be a benchwarmer, which neither you nor I are qualified to be. (Well, maybe you are.) Bobby at least had to work in the gym to develop his ability. If people want to pay him for his NIL, that's between them and him. It's not as though he's forcing anyone to pay him, any more than Taylor Swift forces people to buy tickets for her shows.
The irony is that coaches literally spend their entire career telling fans how important Bobby Benchwarmer is.
They spend every day of their life talking to players and trying to entice the "freshman who hasnt proved anything yet" to join them.
Someone should ask Pike "why do you spend so much time recruiting Harper? He hasn't even proven anything in college yet. He can't be that valuable to the team."
Fans: players aren't worth anything. They don't deserve to be compensated.
Same fans: Dylan Harper mentioned Rutgers in an interview!!!! He's going to revolutionize our team. We have to pull out all the stop to get him.
Substitute Harper for every Clif, Spencer, Mag thread started over the past month.
Same fans: Dylan Harper mentioned Rutgers in an interview!!!! He's going to revolutionize our team. We have to pull out all the stop to get him.
Substitute Harper for every Clif, Spencer, Mag thread started over the past month.
While everyone else gets punished for "breaking the rules" when they get someone they "shouldn't" be getting.
I often wonder if the big donors at other schools get some kind of deal to, essentially, launder money from the university.
Like... we will contract for services or goods for Y and you donate Y-Z to NIL and we will find a way to treat you as if you donated Y-Z to the university (or variations thereof).
I also wondered how many state Us get large donations from donors who get some kind of government deal.. crop subsidies, etc. State politicos generate dollars for good ol state U football by doing deals for the big donors in DC.
Like... we will contract for services or goods for Y and you donate Y-Z to NIL and we will find a way to treat you as if you donated Y-Z to the university (or variations thereof).
I also wondered how many state Us get large donations from donors who get some kind of government deal.. crop subsidies, etc. State politicos generate dollars for good ol state U football by doing deals for the big donors in DC.
The NCAA can lobby/present a consensus on what should be done by Congress. Some guidance/leadership from the NCAA is sorely needed.
I agree, but that doesn't seem to be what the Nebraska President is talking about: he seems to want no Congressional action at all, which makes no sense to me.
"Name Image Likeness" actually means the value of a player to a school. It ain't for sitting on the bench. As the SCOTUS described compensation in Alston, it is to "closely match the value of their athletic services" and to " allow student-athletes a measure of compensation more consistent with the value they bring to their schools."
Bobby Benchwarmer does not bring any value to the school sitting on the bench. Big deal that he worked in the gym. Lot's of young people work in the gym and don't get paid for it. NIL, as other have described it is earning compensation based on a players "athletic or public prowess."
Sure, if a school or a collective wants to pay Bobby Benchwarmer for playing for their school, good for him, but it should not be for much money. Your Taylor Swift analogy misses the mark, as she is an accomplished artist with millions of fans. Bobby Benchwarmer? No.
They do? Harper is a decent bet to pan out and succeed. Bobby Benchwarmer is someone who is not rated in the top 200 or 500 or 100 recruits. He should be happy to have a scholarship. If he works his way up the roster and becomes a starter, then NIL money is earned.
Bobby Benchwarmer is bringing value to the school, and plenty of it -- every team needs a certain number of players if only to practice well. He also represents potential, and so fans and coaches are glad he's at the school. If Bobby weren't bringing value to the school, he wouldn't have gotten a scholarship. The scholarship is not charity.
Consider the 7" college player who is one-and-done, and who is drafted by an NBA team as a project. That player gets a big contract although he hasn't "earned" it. Bobby is exactly the same.
Consider the graduating law student who is hired by a white shoe law firm, and is paid a lot of money -- the going rate is $215,000 a year, more than many of the professors who taught him -- that he hasn't "earned" for the firm.. He will probably never make partner, but he's valuable just the same -- that's why the firm hired him. Bobby is no different
Obviously, there is someone in the world (remember, it's not the school that pays NIL) who thinks that Bobby's NIL is valuable -- otherwise that person or entity wouldn't be willing to pay Bobby. I see no reason to interfere with a voluntary transaction between them. It may be morally objectionable that people put so much value on Bobby, but that's the way our society works. Bobby offers a product that people are willing to pay for, and so he gets paid.
This poorly-constructed website will not let me edit my post, so let me add a reply. He is not being paid for the value he is bringing to the school. Rather, the school was profiting from his name, likeness and image by being able to market it and not give him a penny. of its profit. The difference now is that he is being paid for what he is producing just like everybody else.