And it's probably more accepted to have criticisms- does anyone else cringe every single time Cam brings the ball up the floor against any kind of resistance? The guy is not, and has never been, a good ball handler. I get that they want to do the whole point forward thing but man ...
Now that the wheels are falling off...
- Thread starter ToxicTimberDawg
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Cam never needs to have the ball more than 2 feet away from the basket. The downfall of this team was not signing a point guard that would play a complete season.
#callWillWade
#callWillWade
We can't hit a three-point shot, and we make five turnovers in a row, give up 17 points in a row and you're complaining about who's carrying the ball?
It was just something I noticed multiple times during that big run which is when I made the OP. Couple those turnovers were him running wildly down the floor like you'd expect a power forward playing point guard to do. I've also noticed the entire year and didn't like it. Even when we were winning. Just my opinion.
Agree on Cam. I think Clary being well would help alot. I'm not on the fire Jans train. I just think our overall talent level still isn't high enough to expect to be in the top of the league as strong as it is this year. I guess you can argue that's his job too, even though it's more about $$$ than recruiting acumen these days.
What is the deal with clary? Is he hurt or is it just violation of team rules? Is he not getting payed enough? Wtf is it, cuz it’s hurting msu bad
Cam brings the ball up out of desperation, Hubbard is a me first player who refuses to involve his teammates and Claudell is looking for his own shot. we essentially don’t have any guard play that will pass the ball Or initiate an offense. Bad flaw.
basketball is a team game. Cam doesn’t have the handles but at least he is willing to drive, draw defenders and dish for an open layup to a teammate.
basketball is a team game. Cam doesn’t have the handles but at least he is willing to drive, draw defenders and dish for an open layup to a teammate.
Yes, we have issues this year that are being exposed because we are playing in a buzzsaw of a league this year but why would anyone be on a fire Jans train? Even though we've hit a rough stretch here, Jans is still likely to be 3 for 3 on making NCAA tournaments. Haven't checked the records, but making 3 NCAAs in a row is a very rare feat for us.
You're not on board with firing a coach who has made it to the NCAA tourney in 2 out of 2 seasons and barring a collapse, is on his way to 3 for 3?
Glad to see we have some fans remaining even keeled and level headed...
Doesn't bother me that much. What bothers me the most is how we can't seem to be able to defend the 3. It's incredibly frustrating
There is logically a direct correlation between how much time the ball is in the hands of individuals that don't/can't handle the ball well & the number of turnovers committed by a team.
We are getting beat by Top Ten teams ranked higher than us and the wheels are coming off? Seriously?
Matthews' ball handling in conference play is worse than in pre-conference play. With that said, he is still at 4A to 2.7TO per game. He leads the team in APG too.
Compare Matthews' 1.48A/TO ratio to other leading MSU ball handlers this century.
Iverson Molinar's best season was 3.1APG and a 1.29A/TO ratio.
Nick Weatherspoon's best season was 4.1APG and a 1.48A/TO ratio.
Lamar Peters' best season was 5.2APG and a 1.73A/TO ratio.
Quindary Weatherspoon's best season was 3.3APG and a 1.22A/TO ratio.
IJ Ready's best season was 4.5APG and a 2.81A/TO ratio.
Craig Sword's best season was 3APG and a .96A/TO ratio.
Dee Bost's best season was 5.5APG and a 1.83A/TO ratio.
Jamont Gordon's best season was 5.3APG and a 1.51A/TO ratio.
Barry Stewart's best season was 4.6APG and a 2A/TO ratio.
Ben Hansbrough's best season was 3.2APG and a 1.68A/TO ratio.
Gary Ervin's best season was 4.7APG and a 1.56A/TO ratio.
Timmy Bowers' best season was 4.8APG and a 1.45 A/TO ratio
Derrick Zimmerman's best season was 6APG and a 1.71 A/TO ratio
Matthews' A/TO ratio actually isnt bad, compared to other MSU leading assist getters this century.
Ideally we would have an IJ Ready, Dee Bost, Derrick Zimmerman, or Lamar Peters- players who log a high assist per game cound and have a good A/TO ratio. But since we dont, hopefully these numbers help show Matthews is right in the middle of the MSU group of primary ball handlers/players that have initiated the offense this century.
Having a good A/T ratio doesnt mean you are a primary ball handler. Good passing big
Men have good A/t ratio but it doesnt mean they are a primary ball handler.
Cam has a hard time dribbling with his head up, something grade schoolers struggle with. To suggest Cam is a adequate primary ball handler is ridiculous, you lack common sense.
Men have good A/t ratio but it doesnt mean they are a primary ball handler.
Cam has a hard time dribbling with his head up, something grade schoolers struggle with. To suggest Cam is a adequate primary ball handler is ridiculous, you lack common sense.
Correct, a good A/TO ratio doesnt mean you are a primary ball handler. Thats why I also included the ASSISTS PER GAME stats and pointed out that Matthews leads the team in APG.
I clearly state Matthews as a primary handler isnt ideal too.
Ignore the stats, I guess. Why have valuable context to form an opinion when you can just shoot from the hip and have feelings lead you.
What in the 17 are you actually arguing about here?
Cam Matthews is one of the team's primary ball handlers and frequently initiates the offense on fast breaks, bringing the ball up, and resetting in the half court.
My stats are for other MSU primary ball handlers this century.
Its an apples to apples comparison- it compares primary ball handlers and how often they get assists or turnovers.
Seriously, why are you going on about big men who dont dribble much and log assists out of the paint? That isnt Matthews and isnt any of the other players I mentioned.
A primary ball handler has to be able to handle the ball by definition. Cam is a poor ball handler and while he is unselfish and can pass, hes only playing out top because we lack
Guard play. He cant dribble very well.
Guard play. He cant dribble very well.
To recap...
- Your definition of a primary ball handler is someone who can handle the ball.
- Matthews initiates the offense in fast breaks, from baseline inbounding, and half court sets.
- Matthews has an A/TO ratio that is on part with or better than other primary ball handlers in recent decades.
- Matthews leads the team in assists.
- You say Matthews isnt a primary ball handler because he cant handle the ball...despite the reality that he initiates offense in fast breaks, from baseline inbound passes, and in half court sets. And you ignore that he leads the team in assists and that his A/TO ratio is as good as or better than many other MSU primary ball handlers.
That is just such a clown way of trying to dismiss actual information and beneficial context. You know he is a primary ball handler, yet you make some dumbass argument about how a big man can rack up assists, as if that is whats happening here.
Matthews turns the ball over more than I like to see. Matthews does find himself out of control sometimes when he is pushing the tempo, and that at times results in losing the ball. 100%, I see that.
And yet...he is a primary ball handler, he does lead the team in assists, and his assists to turnover ratio is not bad.
Your definition of a primary ball handler is absurd. Hubbard would be the only one on the team that could be called a primary ball handler, based on your vague definition. Hubbard is the other primary ball handler, and he doesnt get as many assists as Matthews.
It is not that I don't agree with you, but have we not had this problem long enough to have our coaching staff fix it?
We can get what we can get my friend. Jans has done one hell of a job here. Howland pulled us out of a self-inflicted hell hole. Jans has stabilized the ship. Run him off any time soon and we are right back at Rick Ray, and for the same EXACT reason.
Good grief the basketball IQ of our fans is so low. Getting pissed about our ball handling is laughable. If you REALLY want to get pissed, watch our movement OFF the ball on offense. I'm a big fan and supporter of Jans, but that upsets me still. If we need work, THAT is where we really need it. Our ball handlers look selfish because there ain't a lot of open passes available to them.
This post was in response to another post that ended with #call will Wade. Try to follow along.
This post was in response to another post that ended with #call will Wade. Try to follow along.
He has done a great job moving this team forward but is a terrible X's and O's coach. He's also done a horrible job setting this team up for success. Nobody wants to take the lead except for Hubbard, but he's about 6 inches too short. I hate to say it, but if we're gonna move forward, we need something other than this man, right... at least what he has shown.
Our downfall was when we needed him to be a PG. I blame everything on Clary. If he's hurt, that sucks, but I'm suspicious.
Cam is doing a great job doing what he should have never been asked to do.
if Cam were still running around causing havoc we'd be a much better team. We'll get in the tourney and probably win Rd 1. We might luck into the sweet 16 but no way we get further.
Clary if you're hurt, sorry dude, hope to see you next year. If you're not hurt and being held out, big flag on Jans. If you're not hurt, and you're choosing to sit, I hope your future kids are non-binary.
Cam is doing a great job doing what he should have never been asked to do.
if Cam were still running around causing havoc we'd be a much better team. We'll get in the tourney and probably win Rd 1. We might luck into the sweet 16 but no way we get further.
Clary if you're hurt, sorry dude, hope to see you next year. If you're not hurt and being held out, big flag on Jans. If you're not hurt, and you're choosing to sit, I hope your future kids are non-binary.
This was my initial fear when we hired Jans. His teams have always been like this for the most part. He wants to win with defense and making the game ugly. When he was at NMState he had teams that would just beat you up, but they struggled offensively (hence the Dentist nickname).
Obviously I think he can win but compared to the other coaches in this conference he’s behind in some areas. He needs to bring in someone to run an offense and he has to evaluate better in the portal.
With no true point guard, consistent scorers, defense, or center, what could go wrong? Can't match up with everyone. We all thought they were better than they are at the start of the season, but SEC ball has humbled this team. Not only are the SEC players better, they have scouted us well and know how to shut us down. We have not played good enough defense to win enough games.
Giving him the benefit of the doubt, Jans thought he had this fixed with Clary. And I would have to agree with him. After KC got 'hurt', there was a clear problem and there's not much the coaches can do as far as personnel during the season. We have Warren, but he's a freshman and coming in this year was supposed to be a backup to give Clary a blow for 5-6 minutes a game.
Now Hub is stuck being the primary PG, which is not his normal position. That strain put him off his rhythm shooting, which disrupted any flow we had and (I think) led to the chaos we are experiencing now. I think Claudell feels the pressure, I think Cam shouldn't be bringing the ball up, I think we move Kugel into PG at times when we wouldn't have had to... all things that aren't ideal because of one guy being missing.
To clarify, I'm not saying Clary was the world's best PG, but just having a full team with everyone in their natural positions would have helped.
I agree mostly... We play at best a 2 man game on offense with 3 stationary players just in spots... There should be an off side wing spotted up for an open shot off the pick and roll but our big man and the other wing aren't doing much. Nwoko has improved but still has a bit of growing to do. He should be something in the next year or two.
Murphy is the conundrum here. Do you use him as the screener or drop him to the post to look for opportunities. I say the latter, but I'm not a million dollar college basketball coach either.
Clary is not hurt. He might’ve been injured at one time but he could play now if he wanted to. He’s a cancer here and was a cancer at his previous school. Jans likes to take risks on players with baggage and it’s kind of blown up in his face the past couple years