Numbers put Neal Brown in perspective

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

The numbers rank Neal Brown with his WVU predecessors

FIRST 3 SEASONS AT WVU

Neal Brown 15-16

Dana Holgorsen 21-17

Bill Stewart 27-12

Rich Rodriguez 20-17

Don Nehlen 24-12

Frank Cignetti 12-21

That makes Neal Brown the worst in MORE THAN 40 YEARS!

Even beating Kansas State, Texas and Kansas would make Neal 18-16. Still worst in more than 40 years. And 2nd worst in 55 years!

Stop with the excuses. The numbers defy your logic!

 

[OlegeezEER]

Neal Brown's record would be much better if we got play against Doc spears like schedules

 

[Rootmaster]

Neal Brown's record would be much better if we got play against Doc spears like schedules

I'm beginning to doubt that.

 

[OlegeezEER]

I'm beginning to doubt that.

The standards that you expect out of Wvu have never existed within the programs history nor will they ever exist under the current format of college football.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Neal Brown's record would be much better if we got play against Doc spears like schedules

THAT ONE-LINER IS GETTING OLD. THAT'S FROM ONE OLD GEEZER TO ANOTHER.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

So, W-L numbers are meaningless? Then Cignetti should be a role model for WVU coaching.

 

[WVUALLEN]

The numbers rank Neal Brown with his WVU predecessors

FIRST 3 SEASONS AT WVU

Neal Brown 15-16

Dana Holgorsen 21-17

Bill Stewart 27-12

Rich Rodriguez 20-17

Don Nehlen 24-12

Frank Cignetti 12-21

That makes Neal Brown the worst in MORE THAN 40 YEARS!

Even beating Kansas State, Texas and Kansas would make Neal 18-16. Still worst in more than 40 years. And 2nd worst in 55 years!

Stop with the excuses. The numbers defy your logic!

I use to think you were dumb as hell. I now know your dumber than ****.

 

[WVUALLEN]

I'm beginning to doubt that.

Look up his record in G5. You will see Brown could handle the lower level. Your doubts should only be for Brown's current climb.

 

[OlegeezEER]

THAT ONE-LINER IS GETTING OLD. THAT'S FROM ONE OLD GEEZER TO ANOTHER.

comparing records only works when all the variables are equal which is not the case. Every coach inherited a different situation. You should know that.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

comparing records only works when all the variables are equal which is not the case. Every coach inherited a different situation. You should know that.

SO DO WE JUST IGNORE THE NUMBERS AND NEVER MAKE COMPARISONS. FOOTBALL IS LIKE GOLF. NO 2 SITUATIONS ARE IDENTICAL. THAT'S WHY I RELY ON NUMBERS RATHER THAN PEOPLE, INCLUDING ME. TAKES THE IRRATIONALITY OUT OF IT.

 

[Rootmaster]

SO DO WE JUST IGNORE THE NUMBERS AND NEVER MAKE COMPARISONS. FOOTBALL IS LIKE GOLF. NO 2 SITUATIONS ARE IDENTICAL. THAT'S WHY I RELY ON NUMBERS RATHER THAN PEOPLE, INCLUDING ME. TAKES THE IRRATIONALITY OUT OF IT.

Lol. You are the definition of irrational.

 

[WVUFanForever]

Lol. You are the definition of irrational.

How come you didn't post during WVU's two-game winning streak? Didn't fit your narrative?

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

I can remember when WVU was a top ten program for 3 or 4 years, it could be done again. Cincinnati is doing it, Wake Forest is even doing well for goodness sakes. Do the names Pat White, Steve Slaton, and Owen Schmitt ring a bell?

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

How come you didn't post during WVU's two-game winning streak? Didn't fit your narrative?

HOW COME YOU DIDN'T READ MY POSTS DURING WVU'S 2-GAME WINNING STREAK. I WAS OVER THE MOON ABOUT THE IOWA STATE GAME THAT I WATCHED FROM SECTION 105 IN MY MOUNTAINEER FIELD SEASON TICKETS (MORE THAN 30 YEARS). WHY DO PEOPLE MAKE UP STUFF WHEN THEY DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE? I PRAISE GOOD ACTIONS. I ABHOR BAD ACTIONS. DON'T YOU?



Need I remind everyone ... again ... that Neal Brown is having the worst 3-season start at WVU in 40 years. If that doesn't tell you something then it's because you don't want to see or hear it. Prefer to hear no evil and see no evil. It's my alma mater so I hope that WVU wins the next 3 games and a bowl game. But for almost 3 seasons it's been really hard to Trust the Climb. I mean, worse 3-start for any WVU coach since Frank Cignetti, who at least had the excuse of being seriously ill. Kansas State game is winnable. But that's not good enough unless WVU wins it with an Iowa State game performance. Texas is no pushover but also no Oklahoma. Kansas is the whipping boy of the Big 12. 4-5 so far. Worst 3 season start in 40 years at WVU. Those are the facts. You can blame the toughness of the competition compared to what Don and Rich and Bobby and Jim and Dana faced, but it doesn't change the facts. While we're at it, 2nd worst 3-season start in 55 years! How can you defend that? If Neal went 0-12 would you be blaming the schedule and not him? EVERY head coach is to blame for failures and gets credit for successes, whether it's Nick Saban or Neal Brown. Why do you find excuses for everything Neal Brown does wrong? I give him credit for what he does right, as I did after the remarkable Iowa State performance. I am consistent. And I HATE no liking what I see from my alma mater because I love WVU. But I refuse to be blind.

 

[OlegeezEER]

SO DO WE JUST IGNORE THE NUMBERS AND NEVER MAKE COMPARISONS. FOOTBALL IS LIKE GOLF. NO 2 SITUATIONS ARE IDENTICAL. THAT'S WHY I RELY ON NUMBERS RATHER THAN PEOPLE, INCLUDING ME. TAKES THE IRRATIONALITY OUT OF IT.

Comparing coach's records from one era to the next just doesn't work. Look at the Big East old and New. What were the ceilings of some of those teams? Kansas has been the worst program in the big 12 but in 2007 they beat Virginia Tech in the orange Bowl the night after we beat Oklahoma in the fiesta. How many teams that we faced in the past won Orange Bowls.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Comparing coach's records from one era to the next just doesn't work. Look at the Big East old and New. What were the ceilings of some of those teams? Kansas has been the worst program in the big 12 but in 2007 they beat Virginia Tech in the orange Bowl the night after we beat Oklahoma in the fiesta. How many teams that we faced in the past won Orange Bowls.

WORST 3-SEASON START IN 40 YEARS CAN'T BE SHRUGGED OFF WITH YEAHBUTTHEAD STUFF. WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY. WHY SHOULDN'T THE HEAD COACH DO THE SAME?

 

[OlegeezEER]

WORST 3-SEASON START IN 40 YEARS CAN'T BE SHRUGGED OFF WITH YEAHBUTTHEAD STUFF. WE TEACH OUR CHILDREN TO ACCEPT RESPONSIBILITY. WHY SHOULDN'T THE HEAD COACH DO THE SAME?

Comparing variables that are not equal doesn't work. How many of the past coach's you speak of would have had the same records in there 1st three years if they played Big 12 schedules. You're just being naïve.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Comparing variables that are not equal doesn't work. How many of the past coach's you speak of would have had the same records in there 1st three years if they played Big 12 schedules. You're just being naïve.

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION: NEHLEN, RICH, BOBBY, JIM, PAPPY. YOU'RE BEING NAIVE OR MYOPIC IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Comparing coach's records from one era to the next just doesn't work. Look at the Big East old and New. What were the ceilings of some of those teams? Kansas has been the worst program in the big 12 but in 2007 they beat Virginia Tech in the orange Bowl the night after we beat Oklahoma in the fiesta. How many teams that we faced in the past won Orange Bowls.

Neal has it so tough?

Maryland beat WVU and after beating powerhouses Howard and Kent State (yes, sarcasm), got hammered by Ohio State, Penn State and Minnesota and escaped pansy Indiana by 3 points.

Long Island. Need I say more. Scoreboard can’t keep up with its opponents’ point totals.

Virginia Tech “trampled” Richmond by 11 points, lost to Syracuse and Boston College.

What’s so tough about that part of the schedule?

 

[mountaineermaniac34]

The numbers rank Neal Brown with his WVU predecessors

FIRST 3 SEASONS AT WVU

Neal Brown 15-16

Dana Holgorsen 21-17

Bill Stewart 27-12

Rich Rodriguez 20-17

Don Nehlen 24-12

Frank Cignetti 12-21

That makes Neal Brown the worst in MORE THAN 40 YEARS!

Even beating Kansas State, Texas and Kansas would make Neal 18-16. Still worst in more than 40 years. And 2nd worst in 55 years!

Stop with the excuses. The numbers defy your logic!

False Numbers Fake News

Dana and Bill both had watered down Big East Schedules with easy 6-8 wins. Under Bill’s watch, he should not have a lost a game in first two seasons. Dana in his 1st season. Dana had to transition to big boy football without depth which he inherited from Bill who gave Dwight Wallace’s grandson a scholarship which was his only div 1 offer. Dana also never took the years to develop proper depth or a qb.

Rich and Don played tough teams. Neal is somewhere above Frank and Bill and Tied with Dana.

 

[Volatility_rivals135605]

The numbers rank Neal Brown with his WVU predecessors

FIRST 3 SEASONS AT WVU

Neal Brown 15-16

Dana Holgorsen 21-17

Bill Stewart 27-12

Rich Rodriguez 20-17

Don Nehlen 24-12

Frank Cignetti 12-21

That makes Neal Brown the worst in MORE THAN 40 YEARS!

Even beating Kansas State, Texas and Kansas would make Neal 18-16. Still worst in more than 40 years. And 2nd worst in 55 years!

Stop with the excuses. The numbers defy your logic!

Neal Brown also inherited by far the worst situation out of all those coaches..(Talent, Experience, Schedule)

1. Starting Point in any race is a primary factor in how long it takes or where one finishes in the race
2. Strength of Schedule matters
3. How + Why you lose also matters

Wins & Losses are a dark side of the moon view of the quality in Morgantown. There are hundreds of variables when comparing coaches, and esp looking for apples to apples comparisons. Its practically impossible to compare, as each situation is unique.

1. Many here may not like to hear this, but the best coaching Ive EVER seen was Brown's 2019 season. To get that team to 5 wins was a freaking miracle, and even with great coaching still needed a few lucky breaks.

2. WVU would have likely beat Terps & FSU last year, Terps were not nearly as good last year and FSU was horrendous.

3. I dont usually like to put anything negative on any player, because EVERY player sacrifices so much time, effort, & dedication to themselves and our program, BUT..... Doege absolutely caused us to lose 3 games this year vs OU, Terps, & Texas Tech. Even the best coaches & player development in the world can only go so far... Jimmies & Joes > X's and O's.... Quality Player Development does not always produce quality player execution. At some point, no matter how well a coach develops & schemes, a player has to execute...

If we lose vs KState or Texas, I want to see a significant shift in whos getting significant reps. Greene & Crowder need to split time, unless one begins to shine... The more they learn & familiarize this year, the quicker we can shine next year..

 

[mountaineermaniac34]

Neal Brown also inherited by far the worst situation out of all those coaches..(Talent, Experience, Schedule)

1. Starting Point in any race is a primary factor in how long it takes or where one finishes in the race
2. Strength of Schedule matters
3. How + Why you lose also matters

Wins & Losses are a dark side of the moon view of the quality in Morgantown. There are hundreds of variables when comparing coaches, and esp looking for apples to apples comparisons. Its practically impossible to compare, as each situation is unique.

1. Many here may not like to hear this, but the best coaching Ive EVER seen was Brown's 2019 season. To get that team to 5 wins was a freaking miracle, and even with great coaching still needed a few lucky breaks.

2. WVU would have likely beat Terps & FSU last year, Terps were not nearly as good last year and FSU was horrendous.

3. I dont usually like to put anything negative on any player, because EVERY player sacrifices so much time, effort, & dedication to themselves and our program, BUT..... Doege absolutely caused us to lose 3 games this year vs OU, Terps, & Texas Tech. Even the best coaches & player development in the world can only go so far... Jimmies & Joes > X's and O's.... Quality Player Development does not always produce quality player execution. At some point, no matter how well a coach develops & schemes, a player has to execute...

If we lose vs KState or Texas, I want to see a significant shift in whos getting significant reps. Greene & Crowder need to split time, unless one begins to shine... The more they learn & familiarize this year, the quicker we can shine next year..

To that point. All the blame has been landing on Doege and I agree his the worst since Chad at the position. But Greene needs to give Neal a reason to play him and never pull him. Dude can run. Start playing smart and stop trying to do too much.

 

[KingCoal]

2. WVU would have likely beat Terps & FSU last year, Terps were not nearly as good last year and FSU was horrendous.

He doesn't get credited with wins in games that were never played or tagged with a loss to Oklahoma, which also was probable, had that game been played. To paraphrase Bill Parcells, you are what your record says that you are, which is 15-16.

 

[OlegeezEER]

TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION: NEHLEN, RICH, BOBBY, JIM, PAPPY. YOU'RE BEING NAIVE OR MYOPIC IF YOU THINK OTHERWISE.

Did Bill Stewart inherit the same situation as Neal Brown or any other previous wvu Coach. Should he be considered the best 3 year tenure of all time? The guy was handed a team ready made to compete for championships and trashed it in 3 years. If you can't see the logic then you are blind.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Did Bill Stewart inherit the same situation as Neal Brown or any other previous wvu Coach. Should he be considered the best 3 year tenure of all time? The guy was handed a team ready made to compete for championships and trashed it in 3 years. If you can't see the logic then you are blind.

YOU DIDN'T NOTICE THAT I LEFT BILL'S NAME OUT OF THE LIST OF COACHES WHO HAVE DONE BETTER FOR WVU THAN NEAL IN THEIR 1ST THREE SEASONS?

 

[OlegeezEER]

He doesn't get credited with wins in games that were never played or tagged with a loss to Oklahoma, which also was probable, had that game been played. To paraphrase Bill Parcells, you are what your record says that you are, which is 15-16.

I agree you are what your record says but the op isn't taking into account that winning in the big 12 isn't the same as the big east. When wvu was flying high in the big east there was only maybe 1 or 2 teams that they needed to get bye. If they are to develop a championship level program in the big 12 there is probably 4 or 5 teams that can derail them on an average year.

 

[OlegeezEER]

YOU DIDN'T NOTICE THAT I LEFT BILL'S NAME OUT OF THE LIST OF COACHES WHO HAVE DONE BETTER FOR WVU THAN NEAL IN THEIR 1ST THREE SEASONS?

So why did you leave his name out? Because it shows the flaws in your argument? For a guy who touts himself as an expert sportswriter you sure in hell moved the goal posts to fit your agenda.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

So why did you leave his name out? Because it shows the flaws in your argument? For a guy who touts himself as an expert sportswriter you sure in hell moved the goal posts to fit your agenda.

I LEFT HIS NAME OUT BECAUSE I WAS NAMING COACHES I THOUGHT WERE BETTER THAN NEAL BROWN. BILL DIDN'T FIT THAT DESCRIPTION. NO GOAL POSTS MOVED. JUST PUT IN NAMES THAT FIT THE PARAMETERS.

 

[KingCoal]

I agree you are what your record says but the op isn't taking into account that winning in the big 12 isn't the same as the big east. When wvu was flying high in the big east there was only maybe 1 or 2 teams that they needed to get bye. If they are to develop a championship level program in the big 12 there is probably 4 or 5 teams that can derail them on an average year.

I don't disagree that the current Big 12 is better than the last version of the Big East, but you won't be able to make that excuse once Oklahoma and Texas are gone. Texas Tech isn't one of the 4-5 teams that should be able to "derail" any other Big 12 team, with the exception of Kansas.

 

[WVUFanForever]

I don't disagree that the current Big 12 is better than the last version of the Big East, but you won't be able to make that excuse once Oklahoma and Texas are gone. Texas Tech isn't one of the 4-5 teams that should be able to "derail" any other Big 12 team, with the exception of Kansas.

Good take pozie.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

Ah, now can we talk about how WVU is going to rip Pitt a new one in basketball on Friday night. 8:30 p.m., ESPNU.

 

[Cuyahoga Falls Eers_rivals]

The numbers look at it another way:


Neal Brown was 5-7 in his first season at WVU.

Worse than Holgorsen’s 10-3, Stewart’s 9-4, Nehlen’s 6-6, Bowden’s 8-3 but better than Rich’s 3-8, Carlen’s 3-5-2 and barely better than Cignetti’s 5-6. That puts Neal 5th, Rich 7th.

See, I go by actions, not names.

 

[WVUALLEN]

SO DO WE JUST IGNORE THE NUMBERS AND NEVER MAKE COMPARISONS. FOOTBALL IS LIKE GOLF. NO 2 SITUATIONS ARE IDENTICAL. THAT'S WHY I RELY ON NUMBERS RATHER THAN PEOPLE, INCLUDING ME. TAKES THE IRRATIONALITY OUT OF IT.

You're just spinning your wheels now.

 

[WVUALLEN]

I can remember when WVU was a top ten program for 3 or 4 years, it could be done again. Cincinnati is doing it, Wake Forest is even doing well for goodness sakes. Do the names Pat White, Steve Slaton, and Owen Schmitt ring a bell?

Seems like that only happens every 15 to 20 years.

 

[WVUALLEN]

HOW COME YOU DIDN'T READ MY POSTS DURING WVU'S 2-GAME WINNING STREAK. I WAS OVER THE MOON ABOUT THE IOWA STATE GAME THAT I WATCHED FROM SECTION 105 IN MY MOUNTAINEER FIELD SEASON TICKETS (MORE THAN 30 YEARS). WHY DO PEOPLE MAKE UP STUFF WHEN THEY DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE? I PRAISE GOOD ACTIONS. I ABHOR BAD ACTIONS. DON'T YOU?



Need I remind everyone ... again ... that Neal Brown is having the worst 3-season start at WVU in 40 years. If that doesn't tell you something then it's because you don't want to see or hear it. Prefer to hear no evil and see no evil. It's my alma mater so I hope that WVU wins the next 3 games and a bowl game. But for almost 3 seasons it's been really hard to Trust the Climb. I mean, worse 3-start for any WVU coach since Frank Cignetti, who at least had the excuse of being seriously ill. Kansas State game is winnable. But that's not good enough unless WVU wins it with an Iowa State game performance. Texas is no pushover but also no Oklahoma. Kansas is the whipping boy of the Big 12. 4-5 so far. Worst 3 season start in 40 years at WVU. Those are the facts. You can blame the toughness of the competition compared to what Don and Rich and Bobby and Jim and Dana faced, but it doesn't change the facts. While we're at it, 2nd worst 3-season start in 55 years! How can you defend that? If Neal went 0-12 would you be blaming the schedule and not him? EVERY head coach is to blame for failures and gets credit for successes, whether it's Nick Saban or Neal Brown. Why do you find excuses for everything Neal Brown does wrong? I give him credit for what he does right, as I did after the remarkable Iowa State performance. I am consistent. And I HATE no liking what I see from my alma mater because I love WVU. But I refuse to be blind.

Sounds like Mr. I'm the #1 WVU fan and alumni is having a tantrum because his little team can't beat a top 10 team.

 

[WVUALLEN]

The numbers look at it another way:


Neal Brown was 5-7 in his first season at WVU.

Worse than Holgorsen’s 10-3, Stewart’s 9-4, Nehlen’s 6-6, Bowden’s 8-3 but better than Rich’s 3-8, Carlen’s 3-5-2 and barely better than Cignetti’s 5-6. That puts Neal 5th, Rich 7th.

See, I go by actions, not names.

You go by ignorance and whatever number fits your lame *** excuse.

 

[michaelwalkerbr]

What HCNB should do is allow the Blue Lot to elect an armchair HC to name the starting lineups and call the plays for the rest of the season. That should guarantee us a winning season and bowl victory, right?

 

[OlegeezEER]

I don't disagree that the current Big 12 is better than the last version of the Big East, but you won't be able to make that excuse once Oklahoma and Texas are gone. Texas Tech isn't one of the 4-5 teams that should be able to "derail" any other Big 12 team, with the exception of Kansas.

The big 12 will still be tougher than the Big east was even when those teams leave. Texas isn't doing anything now. Texas Tech made the cotton Bowl in the Leach years. Kansas won the orange bowl under Mangino. The fact is the ceiling for the big 12 programs is higher than it was for the former big east teams. Louisville was the only team other than wvu back in that era that proved it could win a BCS bowl game.

 

[Rootmaster]

What HCNB should do is allow the Blue Lot to elect an armchair HC to name the starting lineups and call the plays for the rest of the season. That should guarantee us a winning season and bowl victory, right?

Would probably be an improvement over Kneel Clown.

 

[OlegeezEER]

The numbers look at it another way:


Neal Brown was 5-7 in his first season at WVU.

Worse than Holgorsen’s 10-3, Stewart’s 9-4, Nehlen’s 6-6, Bowden’s 8-3 but better than Rich’s 3-8, Carlen’s 3-5-2 and barely better than Cignetti’s 5-6. That puts Neal 5th, Rich 7th.

See, I go by actions, not names.

All those coach's wouldn't have had as good of records their 1st 3 years playing big 12 schedules.