Of course: Lloyd Tubman might be playing for UL this fall
- Thread starter JHB4UK
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Yeah! Why should ethics and morality be a concern of anybody working at a university?
Yep, guilty to proven innocent if your granddaughter is at your university. If she says it's true, by golly it is & the man must pay! Couldn't possibly be jealousy.
I agree that the morality stuff is overplayed and Barnhart has made bad hires no doubt, he is ok with me or whatever, we could do worse... but let's remember while Jurich is a great AD and has done great things at UofL, his leadership/hiring and the culture in athletics at UofL has also landed them countless scandals, lawsuits and now NCAA probation. Sorry, but we can't fly that way at UK. There is much more attention on UK than UofL nationally. No one makes a huge deal out of the scandals at UofL that would be the end of the world here.
You trust untrained and biased people being strong armed by the Dept. of Ed. to reach the correct decision while your granddaughter is there. That is noble. One would naturally wonder if you would trust them as much while your grandson was attending.
Barnhart has made some great hires. The athletics at UK have really unloved under his watch. The football improvements over the past four years have been dramatic.
Depends on where you focus.
Depends on where you focus.
Because winning isn't everything. I think every leadership position, whether you are talking about business, or anything else, should be run in a moral, ethical, way. There is no reason success should depend on being immoral and unethical. Is that your proposition? The only way to succeed is to have immoral and unethical leadership? The better question is why wouldn't you want an ethical and moral person leading the athletic program? Setting that aside, this is a university. That, in my mind, raises the bar beyond what I expect in general. Anyone employed by the university should be able set a good example for the students who go there.
I'm not saying that at all. I'm asking why morals are so important yet winning isn't?
Mitch has done horrible with football. Yet some of you give him a pass because he is "ethical" and "moral".
He is the ATHLETIC director, winning should be more important to some of you.
And Bobby Petrino had an affair, that's it. If Calipari got caught tomorrow having an affair, would you all campaign for his dismissal?
Mitch has done horrible with football. Yet some of you give him a pass because he is "ethical" and "moral".
He is the ATHLETIC director, winning should be more important to some of you.
And Bobby Petrino had an affair, that's it. If Calipari got caught tomorrow having an affair, would you all campaign for his dismissal?
I don't think that is an accurate portrayal of what people are saying. It certainly isn't an accurate portrayal of how I feel. I desperately want to win in football. I don't agree with your assessment of his performance with regard to football. I compare his tenure with those of his predecessors. He had one of the more successful runs in our history. Of course many will try and come up with excuses for why that doesn't count, but that only betrays that their feelings about Mitch mean more than building a program.
The winning comments, in my mind, are subterfuge. Anyone with a realistic view of our history and position in the conference has to recognize that building a program here is extremely difficult. It has almost never been done. That isn't an accident. It is an incredibly tough job to accomplish. It's not that winning isn't important. It's that I know that to win consistently will take patience and a lot of time with the right coach. In our situation, judging who the right coach will be is difficult because they most certainly will not win immediately. Right now, I have faith in the direction we are heading. As long as we recruit well and the talent level looks like it is improving, I'm willing to be patient because I know that starting over is another long shot. History has proven the success rate of hiring a new coach, not only here, but at many schools with historically losing programs, is extremely low.
By the way, Petrino did a lot more than have an affair. You realize he put his girlfriend on the payroll at Arkansas don't you? He could have potentially faced charges down there. It goes way beyond having an affair.
Wrong.
As many on here have to have noticed (especially the trolls) I make a huge deal of it whenever I get a chance, no doubt to the dismay of some.
I think attention should be called to the incredible things jurich has allowed (propagated, really) at Transfer U, and also at Thug U. hurtt's recruiting might still come back to haunt them if the Minardi Hall disgrace gets the NCAA to forget how badly they stubbed their toe at the U, just read recently that they reduced some scholarships and put some more recruiting restrictions on basketball, in addition to throwing their present team (and the transfers they talked into joining them) under the bus by waiving post season play. Trying to keep their recruiting intact, nothing more will be done, right.
And I think the lawsuit at Thug U is going to make a mountain (deservedly so) out of the ADs statement that athletes are treated the same as everyone else in light of the EIGHT football THUGS assault that weren't even given a parking ticket when they all should have gone to jail, IMO. Maybe a couple weren't really involved and would have squealed like rats IF the football school and KPD had done the usual thing and charged them all with attempted murder, but alas the surveillance tapes weren't available AFTER the OIC didn't pick them up until the next morning so they couldn't identify the real criminals. I wonder how he ever passed beginning crime scene investigation, LOL.
Maybe he has to report to the information officer that always calls the TU staff to have them prepare their criminals for questioning, you have to get your story straight even if the investigator is on your side.
I like your post in general, but one of the things I like most about Cal is his strong family ties (and morals in general, religion, players first, turning down some five stars, charity work, etc etc), I think that is the last thing we have to worry about. And BP did far more than have an affair at Arkansas IMO, he should have been put in jail like one of our heroes was, JMO.
And Slick Rick is guilty of FAR more than just adultery, IMO, in our justice system he who has the money has the justice, and he has tons of money. If he she hadn't listened to his sweet talk she could have had the baby and had a small fortune for 18 to 21 years from the child support, maybe not a viable possibility but certainly about a million times (and a million dollars maybe, considering his salary) better than what she ended up with.
With the make up of professors, presidents and the commencement speakers and others that are allowed to speak on campuses I don't think there are any more and if you are a conservative leaning student you had better keep your views to yourself especially with the faculaty
I fail to see how Lloyd Tubman's life is ruined over these accusations. Many students are told they can't attend a university for actions that fall short of indictment. He was not told to leave for committing a crime. He was told to leave for violating UK policy. As I've said over and over, and many don't seem to be able to comprehend, a panel of people charged with making a decision of whether he violated policy determined that he did. None of us were asked to make that determination and do not know what they knew when they made that determination. My grandson did attend UK and I trusted them to make decisions then just as I do now. No where is it written that I have to agree with those decisions.
First, I've already explained how lives are ruined with these kangaroo courts. They are the state. They must protect the accused with due process. Tubman was most certainly told to leave because of a crime. What do you think happened? They accused him of being in the dorm too late or something? The following article clearly states that her Federal complaints said Tubman was found responsible for sexual misconduct. He has been branded. None of us know his guilt or innocence, but that really isn't the problem here. http://cqrcengage.com/cfchildren/app/document/9564321;jsessionid=U772CreAnXQA1OAOjPgxSRvv.undefined The process is the problem. These serious matters just need to be handled by our legal system. I've still never been given a reason whey schools seem to think they can be autonomous from the rest of society, hiding behind "we're the state" when it suits them and claiming they aren't the state when it benefits them. It is absurd. If a crime has been committed, let the police, DA, a judge and a jury deal with it, you know, with legal representation both ways and rules of evidence, due process and so on. If a policy has been violated, let the kangaroo courts handle that. It is the limit of their experience and ability. I've also never gotten a reply back regarding the poor kid at Colorado State who was expelled for a rape that all the parties agree never happened. A good student working to be a Dr. At school on a scholarship. A non witness reported the incident because of a hickey and the kid gets railroaded by yet another kangaroo court bowing to the throne of the Dept. of Education. This article is enlightening on the heavy handed tactics of the Dept. of Ed. http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-campus-sexual-assault-20150817-story.html Read the whole thing and try to say due process is being achieved. It can't be when schools are not unbiased and clearly they are not. This process MUST stop. How any grownup can trust these people to do anything beyond handling cheating accusations is beyond me. Here is the other story about Colorado State. I'd love to see how supportive of the process you guys are on this one. http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_29786112/csu-student-sues-college-sanctioning-him-what-he Guess he hasn't been harmed either, huh. The so called victim has been victimized by the school as well if you ask me. Surely to God a judge will put a permanent end to this nonsense.
What is the policy he violated if not for the rape charge? Was he not allowed to be in the young ladies room and if that is a"rules violation" why was she not also dismissed as well for inviting him to her room?
Thank God, there is a judge with an actual understanding of our constitutional rights. https://www.thefire.org/california-...eedings-violated-students-due-process-rights/ BBB, Levi and Deeefense should all read this article. I'm not sure why but I'm really disturbed that a moderator of this site is so obtuse to our rights that he not only agrees with this outrageous process, he openly endorses it. I guess I expect a bit more wisdom.
You have either ignored what I've typed or chosen to be confrontational because I'm simply not willing to accept your opinion in total. I clearly stated that there are cases of abuse on both sides of this issue, victims who didn't get justice, and falsely accused who were purged for expedience. I further pointed out that universities have on many occasions acted by motive of money, reputation, and athletic success to the determinant of students, both male and female. That's hardly an "endorsement" of their action.
All opinions are welcome on this site and I have made sure you, and others that I don't totally agree with are able to continue to exercise those rights, and those rights extend to moderators as well.
You make some good points, but you nor anyone else here (including me) knows everything about what happened, so it's probably a good idea to draw in yours horns just a little, and quit being quite so harshly judgemental towards other members.
For the record the opinions I express on this topic are my personal ones and do not reflect or are in any with connected with Cats Illustrated.
I know you aren't speaking for the site. If you reread your post, you should see that you're making my point for me. Both sides of these issues need proper representation. A school, with its inherent bias cannot effectively provide that for either party. Did you read any of the articles I posted? As for my "horns", I havent violated any forum rules and have no intention of changing my position. Far from it in fact. I'll speak my mind as I have been. BBB and I have a history on the subject. You just liked his post which was ridiculous on its face. If a moderator chooses to get down in the mud with the rest of us, don't expect to be treated differently. Now, please read all the articles I linked or just leave me alone on the matter. You either care enough to educate yourself on what is really going on, or you don't, from my point of view.
None of you guys want to weigh in on how great this system is after reading about UC San Diego and Colorado State? How about what the judge had to say about what happened in the UC San Diego decision?
You all point to cases where people have been cheated and have defended themselves for being cheated. I hear you all defending LloyId Tubman against what he was accused of, but I've yet to see him filing suit. Why? Believe me, if he had a case, he would bring it. I've read every article you all linked when they were written. If he didn't do it, I feel for him. What everyone refuses to listen to me say is that "we don't know what happened." Someone of in charge of deciding if he violated UK rules decided he did. It is not us that gets to decide. Slugger, I don't know what policy he violated, but they decided he violated one. If everyone would quit speculating about what happened, we'd be better as a fan base. Let's just get on and cheer for the team we have.
I'm not really sure what your point is here. Didn't they also decide the kid in the San Diego case also violated the rules? Not knowing doesn't really enter into what BigBlueFan is talking about. If you know for sure guilt or innocence, it's easy. Most cases involves not knowing. The point is due process. These schools shouldn't be involved in deciding cases where criminal activity is suspected. They are not an unbiased third party and cannot administer justice.
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Correct me if I'm wrong....didnt BP also hire her into a position within the AD office? Or football staff? Wasn't she getting paid by the AD?
Wow, you read everything and came up with this brilliant rebuttal? There is no speculation in the San Diego case. A judge cleared that one up and highlighted why these kangaroo courts shouldn't exist. There is no speculation on what happened at Colorado State, both parties say there was no rape and there was no other witness. As for Tubman, the article I linked clearly proved he was kicked out for sexual misconduct. Why hasn't he sued the school? I have no idea but that isn't necessarily indicative of guilt, though he could be guilty. Either way, you can't see the forest for the trees. Schools can't and don't provide due process. That has been proven. I'm not sure why anyone would want a person in this country to be adjudicated without it.
This single article speaks louder on the problem than I ever could.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news...against-colleges-punished-them-sexual-assault
I reread that again, more slowly. It speaks to every one of my complaints, even back to mine and BBB's original argument on this issue over a year ago. Untrained people making serious decisions and getting to act as prosecutor, judge and jury. Yet, we have those on this board defending the process. Absurd.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news...against-colleges-punished-them-sexual-assault
I reread that again, more slowly. It speaks to every one of my complaints, even back to mine and BBB's original argument on this issue over a year ago. Untrained people making serious decisions and getting to act as prosecutor, judge and jury. Yet, we have those on this board defending the process. Absurd.
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Tubman was seriously wronged by the university. There is absolutely no legitimate debate about that fact, despite ridiculous arguments from contrarians in this thread.
Tubman was cleared by a Fayette County grand jury and our athletic director did not have the nuts to tell a fascist "Student Conduct Board" where they could stick their opinion.
Do any of you seriously believe that Jurich would stand for his athletes being removed under the same circumstances? It is more likely that the folks on that conduct board would find themselves blackballed on campus if they attempted to railroad one of his players.
Tubman was cleared by a Fayette County grand jury and our athletic director did not have the nuts to tell a fascist "Student Conduct Board" where they could stick their opinion.
Do any of you seriously believe that Jurich would stand for his athletes being removed under the same circumstances? It is more likely that the folks on that conduct board would find themselves blackballed on campus if they attempted to railroad one of his players.
I'd like to see a list of people that are giving Mitch a pass on anything. He gets hammered routinely. Nobody would campaign for Cal's dismissal over an affair because it's non of our business. Petrino did a lot more than just have an affair.
I think there would be more than you think especially if it went down like Benedict's did
I would rather be a contrarian and understand how the system works than to post nonsense because I don't.
Sure you understand how the system works. If you are a male on a college campus and are accused of rape and no matter what the evidence is you are getting kicked out of school. Where are we going wrong here?
What part of a grand jury not returning an indictment is nonsense to you? A politically correct ad-hoc "student conduct" tribunal should not have had the authority to remove Tubman from the school on these facts. THAT is nonsense.
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How the system works? Try reading what I've linked. You're totally clueless.
What's happening, shouldn't an announcement be due some day?
Pretty slow day.
So, jurich hasn't announced his enrollment yet? A scholarship to Utah State, not a bad program, seems like the prudent thing to me, costs a lot of money to go to college on your own------assuming the "side benefits" are the same. of course. Do they have the COA?
I don't get it... Is Tubman yet another problem player UL picked up or a good kid who got treated badly after the grand jury chose not to charge him?
and, btw, we all know the answer to the Cal/affair nonsense......
and, btw, we all know the answer to the Cal/affair nonsense......
No University President would stick their nose out defending Tubman in this day and age except Sleezebag U 64 miles west. If Tubman got accused of another rape then the Univ Pres would be crucified in the media and lose his job. They aren't going to do that.
Tubman got railroaded and everybody at UK knows it..Media has emailed and texted me wanting comments and I stay out of it..His poor Motherspent $10,000 to defend him from trumped up charges from that slut. 50 KMen wrote Eli a letter asking for justice we got nothing
I'm just curious, not being argumentative, because I think UK really screwed this up, but why not tell the media factually what happened? I think the media snooping around is what is needed to clean up these kinds of things. If they have to defend what they did, and I would suspect they can't, then it looks really bad on them. That is what needs to happen. They need to be asked tough questions and put on the spot to defend their process and why they think it brings justice instead of biased rulings.