Official MHSAA Release Re: Bruce/Hamilton

[615dawg]

Sucks for Bruce, but that's the rule.

BRUCE BASEBALL TEAM REMOVED
FROM MHSAA CHAMPIONSHIPS

Clinton, Mississippi (May 18, 2010) – Today the MHSAA Executive Committee upheld the decision of the executive director to withdraw the Bruce baseball team from championship play due to a violation of the 17 inning per calendar week MHSAA pitching rule.

Late on Monday, May 17, 2010, it was reported to the MHSAA office that Bruce High School had allowed their baseball pitcher to pitch 17 2/3 innings during a calendar week. A calendar week is defined in the MHSAA Handbook on page 20 under Rule c. Rules governing Baseball: “calendar week defined as Monday through Sunday.” Rule j on page 20 states, “A pitcher shall not pitch more than 17 innings per week.”

The primary reason for the rule limiting the number of innings a pitcher can pitch in a week is because of the safety issue insuring a pitcher takes care of his physical well being so as not to injure his arm. The rule also insures that there is fair competition among teams.

This rule limiting the number of innings for a pitcher has always been interpreted by the MHSAA office as applying to the calendar week as defined in the handbook. The head coach at each school is responsible for knowing the rules of his or her sport.

MHSAA Executive Director Ennis Proctor stated, “The MHSAA regrets that a situation such as this has occurred at any time—but it is especially regrettable during the post season or play-off season. In order to be fair to all of our schools who have followed the rules, we must enforce the rule and not allow Bruce High School to advance in the playoffs due to this rule violation. It is regrettable that student athletes must suffer for adult mistakes.”

Because of the executive committee's upholding this decision, Hamilton's baseball team will advance to the 2A championship at Trustmark Park next week. Schedules for the championships are still being adjusted due to graduation conflicts. The latest schedule will be available at www.misshsaa.com on Thursday, May 20.

 

[615dawg]

Sucks for Bruce, but that's the rule.

BRUCE BASEBALL TEAM REMOVED
FROM MHSAA CHAMPIONSHIPS

Clinton, Mississippi (May 18, 2010) – Today the MHSAA Executive Committee upheld the decision of the executive director to withdraw the Bruce baseball team from championship play due to a violation of the 17 inning per calendar week MHSAA pitching rule.

Late on Monday, May 17, 2010, it was reported to the MHSAA office that Bruce High School had allowed their baseball pitcher to pitch 17 2/3 innings during a calendar week. A calendar week is defined in the MHSAA Handbook on page 20 under Rule c. Rules governing Baseball: “calendar week defined as Monday through Sunday.” Rule j on page 20 states, “A pitcher shall not pitch more than 17 innings per week.”

The primary reason for the rule limiting the number of innings a pitcher can pitch in a week is because of the safety issue insuring a pitcher takes care of his physical well being so as not to injure his arm. The rule also insures that there is fair competition among teams.

This rule limiting the number of innings for a pitcher has always been interpreted by the MHSAA office as applying to the calendar week as defined in the handbook. The head coach at each school is responsible for knowing the rules of his or her sport.

MHSAA Executive Director Ennis Proctor stated, “The MHSAA regrets that a situation such as this has occurred at any time—but it is especially regrettable during the post season or play-off season. In order to be fair to all of our schools who have followed the rules, we must enforce the rule and not allow Bruce High School to advance in the playoffs due to this rule violation. It is regrettable that student athletes must suffer for adult mistakes.”

Because of the executive committee's upholding this decision, Hamilton's baseball team will advance to the 2A championship at Trustmark Park next week. Schedules for the championships are still being adjusted due to graduation conflicts. The latest schedule will be available at www.misshsaa.com on Thursday, May 20.

 

[War Machine Dawg]

[No message]

 

[patdog]

nm

 

[randystewart]

that is like getting a speeding ticket for doing 46 in a 45 mph zone.

 

[Dawgfan61]

Its the Bruce's coach's fault.

 

[Xenomorph]

But it was the only fair solution given the rules.

 

[graddawg]

I knew the Bruce coach when we were are State together. He never came across as the most athletic guy in the world but he was one of those walking stats/record/rule book types. I'm shocked he let something like this happen.

 

[Coach34]

A. a rule is a rule
B. Bruce's coach obviously doesnt know the rules
C. Bruce's coach should be held accountable for over-pitching his ace
D. Obviously Bruce wouldnt be in that position unless this one kid wasnt pitching all the damn time. 14 innings in a 7 days period is alot, but happens. 17 2/3 is ridiculous
E. I can't stand Bruce

 

[JimHalpert.nafoom]

It will be kind of funny, though, if Hamilton gets absolutely destroyed in the next round after all of their bitching.

 

[OMlawdog]

The same kid that pitched 17 2/3 innings. So where is the penalty?

This is the right call, its unfortunate, but its the right call.

 

[thrill1]

I understand the intent of the rule and think it's good to have such provisions in place, especially during the regular season. But I think it would also make sense to start the inning count over after each playoff series. No question the Bruce coach screwed up, but also, a team shouldn't be penalized for having a standout player imo.

 

[davatron]

Glad that you get a chance to compete, or like you don't belong since you made it by on a rule that most players and coaches don't know?

 

[whatever.sixpack]

Didn't Bruce sweep 2-0 though? If that was the case, why didn't they just make them forfeit game 2 instead of the entire series? Not enough time to get a game 3 in?

I wonder if there was a precedent or rule that said if you do this, your penalty will be this. Seems like they just subjectively decided that the penalty would be forfeiting the series, not just the game.

 

[jcdawgman18]

it was in game 3 in which the pitcher exceeded the 17 inning mark. Not sure if that is true, but that was posted.

 

[Xenomorph]

I'd bet my bottom dollar Bruce high school baseball coaches know about the 17 inn/week rule. It's been around a long time. As I stated in a thread yesterday... every high school staff is familiar with the concept of their best pitcher being "out of innings".

They just screwed the pooch on this one.

 

[Xenomorph]

Some of you people are bat-**** crazy.

 

[jwbigcreek]

cause all those Calhoun County teams whipped that Pirate ***. Actually, the Pirates used to be pretty good at basketball (both sexes). Not sure about now.

 

[Agentdog]

Hamilton beat them twice during the regular season and once in the best of three. Which game 3 was 6-5. So, it isn't like Bruce is clearly superior. Also, I like a team, with three good pitchers, chances better than a team with one pitcher. Bruce's coach admitted that the Hamilton staff was the best they faced.

On the other side, yeah it sucks for Bruce. I think 4 days between starts is enough rest (assuming a sane pitch count for each start). Also, the kid only threw 66 pitches in the Friday game. So, I don't have to much of a problem with Saturday's game. He did leave the game after 40 something pitches. However, the rules are the rules.

If I am Hamilton, I don't regret it one bit.


link

 

[615dawg]

as a former baseball coach.

Let's assume that Hamilton's coach knew the guy was over his limit during the game. Rather than say something in a tightly contested game with a trip to the championship on the line, he let Bruce throw their guy. Hamilton knew they would either win the game or have a very good chance at winning an appeal.

Was this a chicken **** move on Hamilton's part.

By the way, Richton will kick their *** in the final. Jacoby Jones.

 

[futaba.79]

coach to coach Bruce's team too. How did he "let Bruce throw their guy?" Was he supposed to call time andgo take him out?

 

[Coach34]

it's not up to Hamilton's coach to coach Bruce's team too

 

[615dawg]

just heard this from a Bruce supporter who thought that it was "chicken ****" for Hamilton to bring it up.

 

[Xenomorph]

*

 

[boomboommsu]

You can say it's his coach's and his parents' responsibility, but the whole point of the rule is to protect kids whose coaches and parents get too caught up in winning, and forget these aren't pro athelets that can take that amount of strain on their arms.

If Hamilton's coach knew he was over the limit and let him pitch anyway for tactics, then he did a disservice to that kid. It's no different than intentionally beaning someone (at that level).

But, I don't think any coach would face an ace so they could appeal. Appeals almost never get upheld.

 

[topbulldawg]

I am sure the Hamilton coach knew the rule and probably wondered if the other pitcher was over the limit. I seriously doubt he knew for sure the other pitcher was over the limit.

 

[615dawg]

Hamilton's coach told Bruce's coach and the umpire that he intended to appeal the result based on the rule. He knew.

 

[Coach34]

what Bruce did was basically cheating- he was over the limit...period..end of story

 

[JimHalpert.nafoom]

that the Cavalier Shoppe is closed.

 

[nwtfdog]

there are alot of different ways of cheating. theres nothing like throwing stones while living in a glass house

 

[Xenomorph]

*

 

[jakldawg]

Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is <span style="text-decoration: line-through;">bowling</span> North-half 2A baseball. There are rules."

 

[Coach34]

I used to bite up the seams on baseballs before home games when I pitched and even taught my pitchers how to do it as a coach. I even put vaselinein my hair in college to help my split-fingered fastball drop (when you top out at 80, you got to do what it takes)...Hell, my friends and former teammates would tell you I'd throw at my grandmother to gain an advantage...I'm definitely at "win at all costs person"...However, I never over-pitched a young arm as far as consecutive appearances...I did have some guys get to 130 pitches before, but they didnt make another start for 6-7 days after that...


But, when you get caught...you got to pay the piper...it's that simple.

 

[o_Hot Rock]

it's not up to Hamilton's coach to coach Bruce's team too

The national rule has it exactly like this according to what I heard on the radio today. In the national rule there are no forfeiture's allowed. If you suspect a player has pitched to much you must challenge then not after he pitches. The penalty is a fine for the coach and the player is simply ejected from the game.

Mississippi's rule is different. Bruce's principle was on the radio talking about this today. He said that their defense at the Hearing was that they interpreted "week" to have started over on Friday because that was when the school week ended. They were stretching intent of the rule. PERIOD! They should have known better and they do not deserve to go any further.

I do like the national rule better because then no forfeits are allowed and the coach gets fined if he breaks the rule. I do wonder how your supposed to keep up with the other team's players. Especially if you didn't even play them in the game before though.

I have not read any of these rules, I just heard a conversation on the radio.

 

[DawgTeacher]

He was quoted in the paper as saying he didn't know of the violation until some people brought it up to him after reading an article written about the Hanley kid pitching so many innings. I personally think calling it a forfeit is wrong. We go by the NHSF rule book then turn to the MHSAA rule book after that. The NHSF rule book states that each state will produce the limit amount of innings per week. The MHSAA says 17 per week. But their is not a clear-cut punishment in the MHSAA book for this violation. The NHSF book says that any violation of this rule will not be a forfeit. I know the Burt brothers really well and they definitely would not have broken the rule if he knew that was the case on Saturday, but that is what happened. They should suspend Sid, fine him, punish him someway but let the Bruce kids play in the championship game. I agree with the guy who posted earlier, it doesn't matter which team from the north goes because Jacoby Jones and Richton will win it 2.

Also, who cares how many innings a kid throws. It's more about the # of pitches he throws. The kid threw 100 over 10 and 2/3s innings over 2 days, that aint bad. The rules should be changed to # of pitches per week and their should be a better way to keep up with it. If it stays with the innings per week rule, the opposing coach should have to play the game under protest immediately when he realizes a violation like this has taken place, not 2 days later. It's just a bad situation all the way around.

 

[thrill1]

Xeno - what I meant was the intent of the rule penalizes a team (in this case, yes, it's Bruce) for having a standout player. If a team wants to throw him more than 17 innings or whatever arbitrary number they come up with, then it should be up to the coaches, not the MHSAA.

 

[Coach34]

it's not up to Hamilton's coach to coach Bruce's team too

The national rule has it exactly like this according to what I heard on the radio today. In the national rule there are no forfeiture's allowed. If you suspect a player has pitched to much you must challenge then not after he pitches. The penalty is a fine for the coach and the player is simply ejected from the game.

Mississippi's rule is different. Bruce's principle was on the radio talking about this today. He said that their defense at the Hearing was that they interpreted "week" to have started over on Friday because that was when the school week ended. They were stretching intent of the rule. PERIOD! They should have known better and they do not deserve to go any further.

I do like the national rule better because then no forfeits are allowed and the coach gets fined if he breaks the rule. I do wonder how your supposed to keep up with the other team's players. Especially if you didn't even play them in the game before though.

I have not read any of these rules, I just heard a conversation on the radio.

All principles, AD's, and coaches know that the week doesnt end on Friday because of Saturday ballgames in all the sports. Thats just a weak "after the fact" excuse...

Also, are you trying to tell me the kid pitched in the last game of the previous series, and then in 2 games of the Hamilton series to get those 17 2/3? Arent games done every other day? And if the kid pitched the last game of the previous series, and in 2 games of the next series in less than a week- don't you think thats too damn much?

There is no defending Bruce on this

 

[patdog]

In practice though, I doubt you have accurate official stats of number of pitches for most high schools. And over 100 pitches in 2 days ISa lotfor a high school pitcher. 100 pitches in one outing wouldn't be that bad, but after throwing 60+ pitches on Friday night a pitcher needs some recovery time. He came back on less than 24 hours rest. Plus he was already throwing on a short 3-day rest from the Monday game to the Friday game where he threw close to 80 pitches on Monday. The fact is, this kid threw close to 200 pitches over 3 outings in 120 hours. Any way you look at it, that's a lot.

You can argue all day whether you think it should be a forfeit or not, but the fact is the Bruce coach knew the rule and he broke it.

 

[thrill1]

But what I have issue with is the pitcher (Caleb Hanley) pitched 6 innings in the final game of the previous series. He then pitched 4.2 innings in game 1 or 2 (not sure) and threw a 7 inning complete game on Saturday in game 3 for the 17.2. Bottom line: Bruce won on the field and Hamilton should have respected that and shut up.

 

[Boomerdog15]

Did you rub a little Jalapeno inside your nose if the umps were watching you close?