Ok, so what will it take to get us up there with Bama and LSU

[OleYeller]

Money? just how much does money influence a program? What I mean by that is, just how much improvement can you do to your facilities? Surely there is a ceiling somewhere, where the improvements are just not that much more noticeable. So just how much of a difference can money make?

Recruiting? I believe this is the biggest difference, but what does it take to recruit on the level of Bama and LSU? Does money influence recruiting? Does having a winng tradition have a big influence? If so, how do you get the winning tradition, if you can't recruit the players?

Coaching? Sure, we can pay a head coach a competitive salary, but what about assistants? Can we pay them a competitive salary? In my mind, this is where more money pays off.

So, just what will it take, and is it even possible?

 

[was21]

Money? just how much does money influence a program? What I mean by that is, just how much improvement can you do to your facilities? Surely there is a ceiling somewhere, where the improvements are just not that much more noticeable. So just how much of a difference can money make?

Recruiting? I believe this is the biggest difference, but what does it take to recruit on the level of Bama and LSU? Does money influence recruiting? Does having a winng tradition have a big influence? If so, how do you get the winning tradition, if you can't recruit the players?

Coaching? Sure, we can pay a head coach a competitive salary, but what about assistants? Can we pay them a competitive salary? In my mind, this is where more money pays off.

So, just what will it take, and is it even possible?

To be honest, all of the above and....more. I do believe that State can be consistently as good as Arkansas, Texas A&M and maybe Auburn in the west. In the east, as good as South Carolina. There are others but just mentioned those. I don't know if we could or would eve be on a level consistently with Alabama, Florida or Georgia. Having said that, everything seems to go in cycles to an extent.

 

[57stratdawg]

It's simple really:

1) Double our football budget
2) Double the State of MS' population

 

[MetEdDawg]

It's possible, but it's going to take a while. I've got 3 points.

1) We need Top 15 to Top 20 recruiting classes 3 out of 4 years. To compete in the SEC, you can only recruit majority 3 star talent for so long. If you want to move up in the SEC, we have to recruit 8-10 4 or 5 star guys every year. It's nice to find diamonds in the rough, but you can't compete consistently unless you can recruit top talent consistently. I trust Mullen and Company to develop the talent, so if we can recruit close to their level, I think we can compete.

2) We need the fan base to step up and donate their asses off. We are still last in the SEC in that category. Until that changes, we are limited in what we can do. The current administration is showing fans the commitment to football with a total stadium renovation, so I'm hoping that translates well with the kids currently in school. We need them donating as soon as possible when they get out and we need more money overall going directly to athletics. That's going to be tough, but I'm hoping over time that we will continue to build enough momentum where more people join the Bulldog Club and give to athletics.


3) We need coaching turnover at Bama and LSU. Right now, they are juggernauts that aren't going to be taken down until their coaches leave. Could we sneak a win out against them every now and again? Maybe. But under Saban and Miles, both schools are going to continue to recruit and develop the best talent in the nation. Until they get some turnover and have to deal with the uncertainty of coaching changes, I don't see us competing with them consistently.

 

[RocketDawg]

I don't know how Alabama is, but I don't want MSU to sell its soul academically just to field an outstanding football team. And some places can just draw basically whichever players they want based on tradition and winning record. We don't really have that. Alabama, LSU, and Florida do.

 

[Indndawg]

We gotta keep our in-State studs

and steal a few from neighboring states. We're not gonna comptete w/the elites w/2 and 3 star athletes.

 

[thatsbaseball]

Lots of big bad assed linemen

 

[The Usual Suspect]

Winning consistently for 10 years (8 or more games) per year. The only way to stockpile good recruits with enough numbers to even possibly beat them is to build up athletes over time. It is going to take that long to be considered for preseason top 20 every year.

 

[The Usual Suspect]

I watched part of our 2000 game with FL yesterday. The athletes we had on that defense run rings around our currrent D. They were all big, bad, and fast.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

You are on the money here....

and steal a few from neighboring states. We're not gonna comptete w/the elites w/2 and 3 star athletes.

Notice something going on right now in our state? Right now MSU is up after being woeful for several years, Mississippi was down for a couple of years after being up and is now improving from from being woeful the past couple of years and USM, who has had the most success (primarily based on their conference affiliation)on the field over the long haul, but look at them now. They are not just woeful, they are awful.

At least one of the Big 3 have to be very bad, one has to be mediocre to fair and one has to fair the decent based on who is getting the best from this state. THAT is not going to change. Probably ever. There just isn't enough talent in the Mississippi High Schools to sustain a "quality" program for long stretches. Are we seeing more MHSAA schools going to the spread or passing offenses? Yep. But look at the historically successful MHSAA schools. How many 4 and 5 star O-linemen, WR's and QB's come from those schools?

Truth is the most likely help for schools like MSU will come from the new 25 max signees per year rule down the road. Once enough classes have been recruited to even out some of the numbers of 4 and 5 stars the top 4 schools can sign, the better chance for us to get more of them from other states.

 

[The Usual Suspect]

I really believe TX a&m is about to breakout to the elite status in the next 4 years. They have the money, the right state for recruiting, and TX is going down currently with Mack. A&M has all kind of renewed interest right now because of the SEC deal, and a new high powered offense with a freshman QB that may win the Heisman trophy. They are about to expand their stadium to over 100K and spend several hundred million to do it.

 

[engie]

2) We need the fan base to step up and donate their asses off. We are still last in the SEC in that category. Until that changes, we are limited in what we can do. The current administration is showing fans the commitment to football with a total stadium renovation, so I'm hoping that translates well with the kids currently in school. We need them donating as soon as possible when they get out and we need more money overall going directly to athletics. That's going to be tough, but I'm hoping over time that we will continue to build enough momentum where more people join the Bulldog Club and give to athletics.

No, we aren't. We are on pace with the elites of the SEC in terms of private athletics donations. Look at some numbers and get back to me. No school in the country gives back to athletics at any greater per capita rate than Mississippi State currently is. Over $70mil to the Bulldog Club in the past two seasons alone.

I'm assuming you drew that conclusion based on athletics budget and maybe total athletics revenue, in which case it is true that we are still behind, and likely will always be...until we have and can pack a monster football stadium and basketball arena that are both chock full of premium seating... or until we get major corporate help ala schools like Oregon and Oklahoma State.

 

[was21]

I really believe TX a&m is about to breakout to the elite status in the next 4 years. They have the money, the right state for recruiting, and TX is going down currently with Mack. A&M has all kind of renewed interest right now because of the SEC deal, and a new high powered offense with a freshman QB that may win the Heisman trophy. They are about to expand their stadium to over 100K and spend several hundred million to do it.

They are also one of the most highly endowed public universities in the United States. I don't know how much of that money goes to the athletic department. It's possible that coming out from under the red hair stepchild of University of Texas may give them more freedom to do their own thing.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Winning consistently for 10 years (8 or more games) per year. The only way to stockpile good recruits with enough numbers to even possibly beat them is to build up athletes over time. It is going to take that long to be considered for preseason top 20 every year.

This is it. Winning brings in everything on the previous lists... Money, Quality Recruits and more Donations.

Right now we need to focus on keeping the staff we have and continue to upgrade our facilities as we are doing.

 

[The Usual Suspect]

Besides a great alumni base that donates, the State of TX takes care of A&M and UT with severence taxes from oil and gas wells. I know MS doesn't have the natural resources that TX does, but would love to see MS create some type of permanent college fund from either timber, oil, gas something that would just be there permanently.

 

[Dawgology]

I kind of disagree with this....

. There just isn't enough talent in the Mississippi High Schools to sustain a "quality" program for long stretches.

I think there is not enough talent in the highschools of Mississippi to sustain TWO or THREE programs. If you think about it Mississippi schools usually produce a couple of five stars and a 6 a 8 four stars a season. This is a very nice base for one program (if you can keep them all in state). Signing caps would help that tremendously. As long as there are three programs though it will never happen in a state with below average population numbers.

Now, if USM continued imploding and finally dropped their football program and ole miss made the leap to another conference we would be golden...lol

 

[o_hacker]

I really believe TX a&m is about to breakout to the elite status in the next 4 years. They have the money, the right state for recruiting, and TX is going down currently with Mack. A&M has all kind of renewed interest right now because of the SEC deal, and a new high powered offense with a freshman QB that may win the Heisman trophy. They are about to expand their stadium to over 100K and spend several hundred million to do it.

Agreed. And the SEC West keeps getting more and more outrageous.

 

[Palos verdes]

Money, lots and lots of it, several consecutive top 5 recruiting classes, along

with an excellent strength and conditioning program. Not to mention very good to excellent coaching. And a huge fan base that scares and pays officiating crews.

 

[Chickamauga]

I just don't see USM as a significant factor at all.

There are exceptions, of course, but it's very difficult for them to land any recruit that has a legitimate offer from Ole Miss or State.

That said, the larger point stands that Mississippi's talent base is too small to split even two ways.

 

[bruiser.sixpack]

No need to disagree. You and I stated the same thing differently. You put your TWO to THREE programs in the same sentence with "not enough talent". Mine was in another part of my paragraph. In udder wurds....we tinks da same way.

 

[Rockydawg]

I'm not real sure there is a ceiling on facility improvements.

http://www.utsports.com/facilities/football_training_center.html

 

[MaronMatters]

It's simple, really.

We just need a lot of stuff that we don't have.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Alabama's recruiting territory = Los Angeles to Miami.................
Our talent level has to improve before we can expect Mullen or anyone else to go toe-to-toe with Saban and Miles. The preparation for college football in Mississippi high schools is piss poor also. Outside of bowling in the stadium, I think we are in a good spot with regard to our facilities. But our talent level isn't close to what the big boys bring in. They have studs, we have duds. Hell, we almost got beat by a mediocre Troy team. That should tell you all you need to know.

 

[Wizard.sixpack]

Money and Recruiting go together....

Ask Bama..

 

[Coach34]

It's simple really:

1) Double our football budget
2) Double the State of MS' population

This

As long as Alabama and LSU play at a top 3 level football team every year- we are **** out of luck...we have to aspire to be best of the rest

 

[Maroonthirteen]

The things that could realistically happen.....

We have to keep Mullen. He is the best we have ever had. Pay the man, kiss his ***, KEEP HIM. Buy tickets and go to games to give him the support. 2nd, as been mentioned, recruiting has to improve. It has to be expanded outside MS. MS just doesn't have enough talent....the key is not per capita but total number of NFL players produced. Also, the University has to continue this media/image campaign to keep a positive, welcoming image to the entire state. Most OM people bad mouth us every chance they get. We have to continue to battle that for those prospective students who may have never visited our campus.


Things outside our control, that would help, pay some hot blonde to take Saban on a motorcycle ride. Or hope like hell he gets bored sometime soon over there. Also, hope this Coach at Memphis....yes, Memphis....gets that program up and going. If the UofMemphis could have ever have a strong football program, that would effect Ole Miss greatly. OM would lose Memphis recruits, a good number of their tickets sells, and media coverage. We would become the dominate program in the state.

 

[shotgunDawg]

US Population: 1980 - 230 Million / 2011- 310 Million

Mississippi Population: 2000 - 2.85 million / 2010 - 2.97 Million

There are now more high schools in Mississippi that ever before.

There are now more high school football teams in Mississippi than ever before

There are now more high school football players in Mississippi than ever before

Therefore, mathematically you could conclude that there are more good football players in MS than ever before

These stats are true of every state in the South.

LSU and Alabama can still only offer 25 scholarships!

Its a mathematical fact that there are more good football players today than there were yesterday, and you could also assume that as the south becomes more populated, that number will go up. As long as Bama and LSU only have 25 scholarships, everyone will gain on them. We are starting to get players out of Louisiana that we wouldn't have been to get 10 years ago because of population reason if nothing else.

While the score Saturday might now have shown it, we are gaining on them little by little every year. The key is to keep your coaching staff together and evaluating talent. With so many good players now available and more to come in the future, coaching staffs must be able to choose the right players and the ones that fit their system. There are no shortcuts, but we are really heading in the right direction, and as long as the NCAA doesn't allow LSU and Bama to offer more scholarships, then we will eventually catch up.

 

[HueFreeze]

you don't jump tiers overnight.

Don't get the cart before the horse either.

We have just laid our foundation of 1's and 2's that were quality that took 4 years (we still have guys on our 2deep that were walkons), that is the hardest step into becoming consistent, but we have accomplished that.
Now our next step is to dominate the Arkansas, A&M, USC, UT levels in the 2nd tier and consistently win 8-9-10 games a year

Compare how many 10 win teams Bama and LSU have had compared to us?

You don't just say ok whats it going to take to be on the level of Alabama, um 70 damn years of winning football games