On NBC sports. Something called dressage
- Thread starter MSDawg34
- Start date
1. Are Americans good at it? If so, don't add it or remove it.<div>
</div><div>That's pretty much it.</div>
</div><div>That's pretty much it.</div>
Our guy, with a nick over his eye, was pounding the bejeezus out of a Cuban fighter. Just when our guy would get him in a corner, the referee (from Cuba where else) would pause the fight to check on the cut. The Cuban fighter would recover some and the fight would go on. We won by the way. In another fight in Korea, our guy was pounding the bejeezus out of a Korean fighter. The fight went to the scorecards and the Korean won. It later came out that one of the judges was Korean, and voted for his guy. Another judge from another country felt sorry for the Korean fighter for getting pulverized and gave the fight to him also, making it two to one for the Korean. Bend over USA. <div>
</div><div>Edited for grammar and comprehension. C-</div>
</div><div>Edited for grammar and comprehension. C-</div>
Softball was added for the 1996 Olympics. USA won Gold.
They repeated Gold in 2000.
In 2004, it was ridiculous. The USA team outscored opponents something like 51-1 over nine games, with Australia plating a late run in the gold medal game to lose 5-1.
The IOC could have none of that, and eliminated softball as of 2012. They also eliminated baseball in order to make it "fair"
Ironically, the USA took home bronze in baseball and lost the Gold medal game in softball in 2008.
They repeated Gold in 2000.
In 2004, it was ridiculous. The USA team outscored opponents something like 51-1 over nine games, with Australia plating a late run in the gold medal game to lose 5-1.
The IOC could have none of that, and eliminated softball as of 2012. They also eliminated baseball in order to make it "fair"
Ironically, the USA took home bronze in baseball and lost the Gold medal game in softball in 2008.
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To me, those are competitions and not sports. Sure real sports can be rigged too to an extent, but it's a lot harder when the outcome depends on who crosses the line first, or scores the most goals, etc. Even honest judges are always going to have some degree of prejudice for or against some competitors.
You know nothing about it, and all too often people fear and belittle that which they dont undersand. Its cool.</p>
1- You seriously think gymnastics isnt a sport? They may be freakishly tiny, but damn if they arent athletes in every sense of the word.
2- You do realize that the difference between a judge and a ref is about nothing, right? A ref has a TON of influence over who wins and how they win. NBA refs play WAY too big a part in every game. There is discussion over missed calls. There is discussion over fantom calls. There is discussion over letting a team play and how that is good. There is discussion over how letting a team play means there are missed calls. It goes on and on and on.
Calling 2 quick fouls on a key PG or C completely changes the game for both teams.
Refs may not be the ones that actually vote for the winner at the end, but thats because they at some points vote for the winner during the competition.
2- You do realize that the difference between a judge and a ref is about nothing, right? A ref has a TON of influence over who wins and how they win. NBA refs play WAY too big a part in every game. There is discussion over missed calls. There is discussion over fantom calls. There is discussion over letting a team play and how that is good. There is discussion over how letting a team play means there are missed calls. It goes on and on and on.
Calling 2 quick fouls on a key PG or C completely changes the game for both teams.
Refs may not be the ones that actually vote for the winner at the end, but thats because they at some points vote for the winner during the competition.
Ouch. That left a mark. It alsoleft patdog at a loss for words which is a major feat.mstateglfr said:
We can all thank you for that.
1 - I'll be the first to say that those gymnasts are amazing athletes. But the judges are usually pretty biased. To me gymnastics is an athletic competition that is judged not much differently than a beauty pageant is.
2 - No, there's a huge difference between a judge and a ref. A judge determines the outcome 100% of the time. A ref can sometimes make a difference in the outcome, but the sport is won by players reaching some goal first or most often. Most of the time the game/match/event is won by the athletes, not the refs.
2 - No, there's a huge difference between a judge and a ref. A judge determines the outcome 100% of the time. A ref can sometimes make a difference in the outcome, but the sport is won by players reaching some goal first or most often. Most of the time the game/match/event is won by the athletes, not the refs.
A good many posters areso concerned with being sixpack cool that they check what ever intelligence they have at the log in page.mstateglfr said:
Kind of like the guy we all knew from middle school we acted dumb becausehe thought it wascool.
In gymnastics, there is a panel of judges, so a judge doesnt determine the outcome 100% of the time. A judge determines 20-33% of the outcome.
And what the hell is an athletic competition? Is that just some hair split to avoid calling it what it really is- a sport?
Or is this one of those things where all sports are athletic competitions, but not all athletic competitions are sports?
To me, a sport is something that takes athleticism, competes, and creates a winner. Ichoose not to get into defining how much sweat needs to be created for it to be a sport, or how little body fat is needed by all players for it to be a sport.
If baseball is a sport, then gymnastics is a sport. In baseball, an unpire JUDGES every pitch. In baseball, umpires JUDGE if a ball was caught or not, if a runner was safe or not, and if a ball was fair or not.
But apparently all that judging thru the game, hundreds of judgements actually, isnt equal.
And what the hell is an athletic competition? Is that just some hair split to avoid calling it what it really is- a sport?
Or is this one of those things where all sports are athletic competitions, but not all athletic competitions are sports?
To me, a sport is something that takes athleticism, competes, and creates a winner. Ichoose not to get into defining how much sweat needs to be created for it to be a sport, or how little body fat is needed by all players for it to be a sport.
If baseball is a sport, then gymnastics is a sport. In baseball, an unpire JUDGES every pitch. In baseball, umpires JUDGE if a ball was caught or not, if a runner was safe or not, and if a ball was fair or not.
But apparently all that judging thru the game, hundreds of judgements actually, isnt equal.
because there is no transparency.. umpires and refs call a game according to some rules that any person can observe.. now their judgment might be different from your judgment, but there are rules nonetheless. Referees can determine the outcome of a game SOME of the time, but at the end of the day, you can't un-hit a ball or un-catch a pass or un-make a shot that was made. Judges can determine the outcome of a competition almost ALL of the time. And all it takes is one crooked judge most of the time.
You don't think they have printed rules and guidelines in gymnastics? Or are you just too lazy to look them up?UCantStop15 said:
I think going in, it was pretty clear that only two participants from each team could advance to the all around. Are you suggestingthere was a conspiracy against the US to keep their best gymnist out of the competition? Do you think it was racially motivated? Do you thinkthey didn't like her hair-do? What was it that this "one crooked judge" did to keep the young lady out?
UCantStop15 said:
I know dick about gymnastics, but what little i do know is clearly more than you. They have a routine that is submitted ahead of time. That routine is graded on difficulty and given a max score. Any screw ups are then deducted from there.
I dont know how much is deducted for falling off the balance beam versus tilting and catching yourself, but thats because i dont care about the sport and havent tried to understand it better.
Judges have rules that they must follow for scoring.
Have there been scandals? Sure. Figure skating, from what i understand, has been very sketch in its judging. I believe measures have been taken to change this though?...not totaly sure.
As for your contention that a ref must follow rules, thats incorrect.Carrying is barely called in the NBA, and when it is called, its so arbitrary that everyone pouts because the default position is that the rule is ignored. The charge/block rule is rarely called properly, at least according to other refs on the same damn court since they all quite often contradict and then pow-wow for a consensus, or one ref just stands there and defers to the other so there isnt a conflicting call made.
Players go straight up, maintaining established position, and are called for a foul which is incorrect.
This can apply to your comment about their judgement(look at the root word there...refs JUDGE)versus mine, but that also applies to judges for gymnastics. My judgement as a judge may be different than another judge. We both score the routine and the totals are averaged or something.
You can argue about whether or not it should be an Olympic sport. But you show your ignorance when you say dressage is nothing more than walking around a square. I suppose you think soccer (or football, or tennis or any of a hundred other sports) is just average joes schlepping a ball around a square.
It's not really about the athletes - it's about the horses. You wanna put this and dog shows into their own animal olympics, fine - but this is the type of thing that you could have an entire team train a horse, then throw some chump on the horse and do fine.<div>
</div><div>The horses are probably amazing athletes. I don't think the riders have any business winning olympic medals.</div>
</div><div>The horses are probably amazing athletes. I don't think the riders have any business winning olympic medals.</div>
If there really is a rubric where each move is worth some number of points, each infraction takes away points, and supposedly there is (supposedly it's not just arbitrary and subjective), there should be a running counter in the corner of the screen so I can watch the score going up (or down). It would be really easy to understand how the scoring works, rather than just seeming like magic after the routine is done.<div>
</div><div>This might be hard to do on live TV, but since gymnastics usually is on tape delay primetime, they'd have a few hours to edit it all in.</div>
</div><div>This might be hard to do on live TV, but since gymnastics usually is on tape delay primetime, they'd have a few hours to edit it all in.</div>
Doesn't sound like you have much of an idea about what you are talking about, which makes you a true sixpacker.UCantStop15 said:
What a completely ignorant comment.Hump4Hoops said:
I agree thata lotof the success comes from the horses, butthat is due to the training...WITH THE RIDER.
The riders are all highly trained and typicallyhave gone thru years and years(decades, actually) of training.
The subtle directions given by the rider to the horse make it seem like the rider is just sitting there because that is the whole point- to make it look effortless.
Learn something about it.
I know people who do this. It takes years of hard work and practice to master it. You have to make split second decisions and direct the horse and get your timing correct to make the jumps.
It makes as much sense as a lot of the competitions that do exist, and interests me just as little.
Reading thru all the event that used to exist is pretty interesting and i wouldnt say NASCAR or something out there like that is too far off base. Pick something more absurd to make your point.
Archery is an event. At this point with the technology that is involved, they could get any chump from the stands to put their Coke down, take aim, and hit the bullseye.
Yep, just as dumb a statement as the one about Dressage.
Reading thru all the event that used to exist is pretty interesting and i wouldnt say NASCAR or something out there like that is too far off base. Pick something more absurd to make your point.
Archery is an event. At this point with the technology that is involved, they could get any chump from the stands to put their Coke down, take aim, and hit the bullseye.
Yep, just as dumb a statement as the one about Dressage.