One and dones..

[pisgah101]

This isn't even about just tonight but overall. Is the one and done philosophy actually worth it? We won it in 15 and U.K. Did in 13 but NO other team has won a national title with them. I think it's time to re-evaluate and try to build a team.. our D has been atrocious for a long time now but can you build a team that can play real D in a season?

 

[Jacktwncat94]

This isn't even about just tonight but overall. Is the one and done philosophy actually worth it? We won it in 15 and U.K. Did in 13 but NO other team has won a national title with them. I think it's time to re-evaluate and try to build a team.. our D has been atrocious for a long time now but can you build a team that can play real D in a season?

Only really been done since 2010. 2/7 isn't bad in the tourney considering only 2 teams are doing it.

 

[dukiejay]

Duke isn't recruiting any different than they did 20 years ago. The problem is how certain things change. I'm fine recruiting and landing one-and-done's when there's leadership to go with it, but next season could come back to bite us a bit....we might not have a single senior on our roster and but one or two juniors.

 

[pisgah101]

Duke isn't recruiting any different than they did 20 years ago. The problem is how certain things change. I'm fine recruiting and landing one-and-done's when there's leadership to go with it, but next season could come back to bite us a bit....we might not have a single senior on our roster and but one or two juniors.

That's true. Do you think Grayson leaves too? If u put numbers on it?

 

[dukiejay]

That's true. Do you think Grayson leaves too? If u put numbers on it?

I think both Grayson and Luke are gone. Grayson is graduating and Luke is going to be a top-20 pick. Frank is the only player in our top seven I feel comes back.

 

[K-oach Q]

I'm fine with A OAD...not a team of them...

It's not successful long term...you may catch lightning like 2015...but there is a lot of first weekend exits for that opportunity.....we need a roster and to build a team again...we leave ourselves in tough spots year to year...

I have a feeling next year won't be much better.

 

[2 skerz 3_rivals208847]

Yeah lets start only recruiting kids that aren't good enough to make sure they stay for 4 seasons lmfao. Overreact much?

 

[K-oach Q]

Yeah lets start only recruiting kids that aren't good enough to make sure they stay for 4 seasons lmfao. Overreact much?

Scheyer, Singler, Smith, Zoubek, Thomas, where not good enough? None of them where OAD....

 

[pisgah101]

Yeah lets start only recruiting kids that aren't good enough to make sure they stay for 4 seasons lmfao. Overreact much?

I'm not overreacting lol but our D has been terrible for a long time and it deff goes right along with the one and done mindset.. I'm just posing the question.

 

[Mac9192]

Recruiting the one and dones is not the problem. You need veterans to mix with them. This was an anomaly with all that happened before the season, and during too. Giles, that poor kid. Just think how his year could have gone had he not had surgery before season. Tonight they were victim to really physical play, and that's not good when you play 7 and one of those had 3 knee surgeries. Our lack of bench, for whatever reasons, comes back to bite us when it's a war on the court, and the team's leading scorer happens to be the worst defender. My opinion on Kennard is as good overall as he is on offensive side of the ball, he's that bad on the defensive. Just a weird year that will be talked about for quite a while

 

[mrchmadness23]

Plain and simple, we got to get tougher, both physically and mentally. You have to want to guard someone, you have to want to rebound! Those things are heart and toughness.

 

[dukiejay]

Scheyer, Singler, Smith, Zoubek, Thomas, where not good enough? None of them where OAD....

As you referred to 2015, is that a bit of an outlier, too?

Here's what I mean....Zoubek and Thomas were role players. Very valuable role players. But so was Amile. So was Matt. So was Marshall last season.

Are guys like Jon, Kyle and Nolan exceptions to the rule? Kyle was a top-five kid in his class who stayed four years. IIRC, no one else in the top 10 from 2007 stayed all four years. Nolan looked at transferring after both his freshman and sophomore seasons.

Lastly, don't forget that group had their struggles in the NCAAT too. They lost in the first round to VCU, played a game eerily similar to tonight against WVU in 2008, and lost by 20+ to Nova in 2009. I feel as though if you're saying 2015 was an outlier, then it would appear 2010 might have been too.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

Damn 50/50 poll?

When you lose in the postseason with 1 & dones it doesn't hurt as much because you probably have more waiting in the Wings. But looking back at the 2015 season - Virginia/UNC/Wisconsin games stood out but I never lost with those youngsters. Now if Allen wins: he will be one of my favorites

 

[K-oach Q]

As you referred to 2015, is that a bit of an outlier, too?

Here's what I mean....Zoubek and Thomas were role players. Very valuable role players. But so was Amile. So was Matt. So was Marshall last season.

Are guys like Jon, Kyle and Nolan exceptions to the rule? Kyle was a top-five kid in his class who stayed four years. IIRC, no one else in the top 10 from 2007 stayed all four years. Nolan looked at transferring after both his freshman and sophomore seasons.

Lastly, don't forget that group had their struggles in the NCAAT too. They lost in the first round to VCU, played a game eerily similar to tonight against WVU in 2008, and lost by 20+ to Nova in 2009. I feel as though if you're saying 2015 was an outlier, then it would appear 2010 might have been too.

I don't think any of them where recruited as OAD talent...like Jabari, Rivers, Okafor, etc.

They did take their lumps but they developed through it all..

2015 is an outlier in terms of what we have shown we can do with OAD talent...mostly we have showed that we are One And Done as a team in the tourney with them....

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

For every Nolan, there is a Sean Dockery (if not 2+)

 

[K-oach Q]

I would also add that as part of that problem is not playing guys and developing them with the OAD talent coming in...the transfers have really hurt us, left us thin, and this is the predictment we will most likely be in next year...

Kids want to play, Seven man rotations is a bit rediculous IMO....I can't blame kids for not wanting to stay and ride the pine so much....

The combination of the two is a bit baffling....

 

[pavadukefan]

Listen I didn't like the result tonight but frankly I hated 2005-2009 for Duke. People complained constantly about why Duke didn't recruit talented players. I do not want to go back to the GP years at all. I would much rather have talented players then not have it all. The fact is you need some of the OAD players to be successful in the tournament. I know Nova did last year but that's rare in my mind. Next year will be interesting that's for sure

 

[pisgah101]

Listen I didn't like the result tonight but frankly I hated 2005-2009 for Duke. People complained constantly about why Duke didn't recruit talented players. I do not want to go back to the GP years at all. I would much rather have talented players then not have it all. The fact is you need some of the OAD players to be successful in the tournament. I know Nova did last year but that's rare in my mind. Next year will be interesting that's for sure

But honestly we've had the exact same success

 

[BNM79]

Duke needs to figure out how to keep top 10-15 talent for 3 years plus.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

But honestly we've had the exact same success

Probably less regular season titles. We won 9 outta 13 ACC Tournaments from 99 to 2011

Granted ACC has improved. But we gained depth but lost Maryland so shouldn't be a massive upgrade in terms of Conference.

 

[K-oach Q]

But honestly we've had the exact same success

This may be more of the question...we had success in two years from 2005 till now....So twice in twelve years....

We have had consistently poor showings in both areas with and without OAD...so what's the problem?

 

[pavadukefan]

You can't have your cake and it to. Let me give you an example. Pretend it's 3 years ago and Jabari Parker says hey Duke I want you to recruit me? Your telling me you say no? How about Wendell Carter? I guess you don't want him?

I read the posts on this board from 2005-2009 and I am here to tell you there were people that could not stand how Duke was recruiting. People were constantly bashing Paulus, Scheyer and Nolan Smith. Now Duke is recruiting great players and people want 4 year guys. The fact is you need a mix of both which Duke had but guess what Duke had injuries and a HUGE weakness at PG this year and that's the bottom line to me

 

[dukiejay]

I don't think any of them where recruited as OAD talent...like Jabari, Rivers, Okafor, etc.

They did take their lumps but they developed through it all..

2015 is an outlier in terms of what we have shown we can do with OAD talent...mostly we have showed that we are One And Done as a team in the tourney with them....

But Duke's recruiting philosophy hasn't really changed since then. Back then we were missing on Patrick Patterson, Greg Monroe, Brandan Wright, Jon Brockman, Samardo Samuels, Gani Lawal, etc. Of that group, and there's more those are just the one's I remember off the top of my head, only Brockman was considered a four-year guy.

What I'm saying is that, despite it only being seven years ago we won with that group, they were all recruited 12 and 13 years ago. It's changed since those days. One and done was still pretty uncommon.

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

IMO

2010 Championship was razor sharp. Granted that Butler team was quite strong but we could have lost on Hayward's fadeaway. Meanwhile in 2015 we almost blew out down the stretch a superior Winsconsin team IMO. I felt we had the capabilities to defeat anyone - Kentucky included that season.

So I rather go down choking than being not talented enough - Tyler Thornton starting or Paulus as PG.

 

[pisgah101]

I'd love a mix but we don't play the four year guys enough to keep them around or make them wanna come

 

[pisgah101]

IMO

2010 Championship was razor sharp. Granted that Butler team was quite strong but we could have lost on Hayward's fadeaway. Meanwhile in 2015 we almost blew out down the stretch a superior Winsconsin team IMO. I felt we had the capabilities to defeat anyone - Kentucky included that season.

So I rather go down choking than being not talented enough - Thornton starting or Paulus as PG.

Which thornton

 

[dukiejay]

You can't have your cake and it to. Let me give you an example. Pretend it's 3 years ago and Jabari Parker says hey Duke I want you to recruit me? Your telling me you say no? How about Wendell Carter? I guess you don't want him?

I read the posts on this board from 2005-2009 and I am here to tell you there were people that could not stand how Duke was recruiting. People were constantly bashing Paulus, Scheyer and Nolan Smith. Now Duke is recruiting great players and people want 4 year guys. The fact is you need a mix of both which Duke had but guess what Duke had injuries and a HUGE weakness at PG this year and that's the bottom line to me

Technically, people weren't bashing 'how' Duke was recruiting, they were going bonkers because Duke wasn't landing the 'elite' classes we had become accustomed to over the years.

And for the record, I'm not arguing with you. I agree 100%.

 

[pavadukefan]

I know you aren't dukiejay. I didn't post much back then I just read the board. The bottom line is people want it both ways and it doesn't work that way

 

[pisgah101]

Yeah you can't pass on those guys but like @K-oach Q said something isn't right

 

[K-oach Q]

I'd love a mix but we don't play the four year guys enough to keep them around or make them wanna come

I agree with this..7 man rotations don't make any sense...now we either play them out of necessity like last year and probably next...or like this year we play them for who knows what reason...even when we have the bench we don't....

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

Which thornton

I edited. Tyler. Matt Jones was superior, but Tyler played during a time we had suspect PG play. I am very encouraged with Frank moving forward.

When people speak of NBA talent staying at Duke 3 years - Frank/Kennard are our hopes

 

[sheyduke]

It is what it is. Would this season been a lot better given no injurys? Who knows.
I'm all for getting OAD's but getting them to buy into the team defense is another.
However as Tatum began to buy into team and defense his stock rised so it is what it is.

Go Duke

 

[dukedevilz]

Probably less regular season titles. We won 9 outta 13 ACC Tournaments from 99 to 2011

Granted ACC has improved. But we gained depth but lost Maryland so shouldn't be a massive upgrade in terms of Conference.

10 of 13. Won every year except 2004, 2007, and 2008. Crazy, stupid, impressive run there.

Also, Calipari has finished 7 seasons at Kentucky and has made it to 4 final fours and one additional elite 8. Who wouldn't want those results? Essentially we are 1 for 2 in the years where we feature multiple OADs - 2015 and 2017. Give me the best players, period. I'll take those odds.

 

[pisgah101]

It is what it is. Would this season been a lot better given no injurys? Who knows.
I'm all for getting OAD's but getting them to buy into the team defense is another.
However as Tatum began to buy into team and defense his stock rised so it is what it is.

Go Duke

Oh yeah Tatum bought in and I'm proud of him for that but big picture something has to change or we won't win big again

 

[K-oach Q]

I know we need OAD..we also need four year guys...we need the mix I understand that...but something isn't working...and I personally feel it's the defensive philosophy...and that K cares more about offense now....

His press conference after the first round game about the mindset of the team being that we would out score you is alarming....

That post I made about pts given up in the second half of these tourney games is also a bit eye opening when seen all together....

 

[Alaskan_Assassin_21]

We have to ride the One & Done wave until Coach K retires. Duke is still considered the brand in CBB. This was not the case 5-10 years ago. Recently it was Kentucky and in the mid-late 2000's - Uconn.

 

[Jnood]

I just want a team of a-holes who want to get their hands dirty, and rip everyone's hearts out. I don't care if they are OAD or not. I enjoyed seeing guys stay longer, because I liked watching their growth, but along with ribbons, everyone gets a spot in the lottery these days. So, just be a heart ripping ahole for one year, then replace him with another heart ripping ahole.

 

[2 skerz 3_rivals208847]

Scheyer, Singler, Smith, Zoubek, Thomas, where not good enough? None of them where OAD....

I hear ya and that is my favorite Duke team if all time BUT, you also have to understand that we aren't Notre Dame, we will and need to get the best players in the country. I think it's an overreaction to presume otherwise. Yes the ACC Tourney made us believe we could get it done, but we forget that Grayson had his issues, Harry was 1/100th of what he couldve been, Jayson was hurt, Bolden was hurt, K missed a month, Matt played hurt, Amile was hurt, etc etc etc. Every team has an excuse but I chalk this up to quite possibly the worst Duke season (anything bad that could happen, did) of my lifetime. I apologize for being an *** earlier cause I love Duke and I love fans as passionate as myself for Duke basketball!!!!!

It's easy to say, but I think K and staff will be on a mission next season. I think/hope Grayson and Luke come back and those 2 along with Frank and whoever else get #6! If not, guess what, I will still bleed Duke blue!

 

[2 skerz 3_rivals208847]

I just want a team of a-holes who want to get their hands dirty, and rip everyone's hearts out. I don't care if they are OAD or not. I enjoyed seeing guys stay longer, because I liked watching their growth, but along with ribbons, everyone gets a spot in the lottery these days. So, just be a heart ripping ahole for one year, then replace him with another heart ripping ahole.

Amen @Jnood

 

[Droptops]

Duke needs to figure out how to keep top 10-15 talent for 3 years plus.

It's hard to figure that out when millions are being thrown at you