OT- 9mm vs 45ACP
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9mm for me. It's whatever you're most comfortable carrying and accurately shooting.
I've been checking out a lot of the literature on this debate and it really is something. The experts will literally tell you to a man that the 9mm is better. Yet you here now that the military is going back to the 45 Auto. If you read the ballistics data the 9mm seems to come out on top yet for some reason in the real world the 45 ACP gets the job done over the 9mm. My question to the people in the know is what is getting Lost in Translation with the data?
The comfort I totally get. My 1911 is heavy but that's what I like. But as far as accuracy goes the 1911 is the platform used by professional shooters.
The one aspect that totally makes sense is the ammo per magazine argument for the 9mm.
Right now i carry a .40 s&w. Imo that is too big. I'm looking at either a 380 or 9mm. Just because my 40 cal is so big and bulky let me know what you think
My girlfriend's got a snub nose old school Smith & Wesson 38 and it's okay. But if anything is more than 10 feet away you're not hitting anything LOL! I've shot in the 9mm in Glock and Beretta and they're nice. So far I put around 500 rounds down my Colt 1911 and it hasn't had one problem it. It's reliable and accurate and I just love it but it is heavy.
Currently have a 1911 and something about it's size and weight feel right to me.. accuracy isn't the best, the #of rounds in the mag isn't great either, but the stopping power of the home defense hollowpoint is excellent. I would not want to carry one around all day because of the weight though.
I'm more curious what others think about a compact pistol in .22LR ??
I'm more curious what others think about a compact pistol in .22LR ??
Exactly to my point ... the 45 ACP gets the job done. Unloading your weapon is intended to do one thing, kill.
I dont see it as either/or. Its all about shot placement. 45 is great if you have the hand strength and can handle the recoil for a follow up shot. Its what feels best for you. Could be 9, 40 or whatever.
Have you considered a 357sig?
Have you considered a 357sig?
Walmart sells a box of 50 45 auto in Aluminum case for $14.97. My 1911 eats em like M&M's. RollingLaugh
For my EDC (everyday carry) it's 9mm with hollow points. For those that say .45 have more stopping power and 9mm won't stop anything, I say stand 15 feet away and let me shoot you. Never had anyone take me up on it. (I wouldn't shoot em it's a phrase that makes my point) Now for the military when your going against people with body armor I understand the .45 with my 9mm I can carry 17 rounds in one magazine, can't do that in a 45. No matter how great you are facts are in a gun fight only 1 out of 3 shots hit their target, this includes police as well.
For carry, I like a real small and light gun or I'm apt to leave it behind....
Always enjoy these sort of conversations.....if a perp were wearing body armor, a 45 +P may not penetrate, but it'd break ribs where a 9mm wouldn't. The military is wanting to drop the 9mm for that very reason.
The advantage a 9mm has over the 45 is recovering from a shot quicker....you can put 2-3 shots down range faster.
I have/carry all 3....40, 9mm and .45. Going into battle (so to speak), I'd carry my 1911 over the other two. Not much help. A lot like the arguments you get from Glock vs S&W users.
You're right, the percentage of hits over misses even with cops is poor. However, most of the time when a cop fires his handgun at someone, it is very close range. Probably like higher than 90% of the time. For that reason, I'll stay with the .45. I've seen and read too many stories of law enforcement who have hit a bad guy with a 9mm, even numerous times, and the bad guy didn't go down.
I agree that no one would or should stand 15 feet away and get shot with either, but when the $#@& hits the fan, adrenaline is a funny thing. There have been cases, where people have taken fatal shots, and medical examiners have said the person should have been dead, and unable to take another step, but continue to move for a while. Also, being involved in law enforcement, you have to take into account that a real serious bad guy could have body armor on.
However, as a civilian or when off duty, I am tempted to get a 9mm to carry, just for ease of easier concealment. I like my Glock 30, but sometimes it is hard to keep hidden.
JMHO, I think the average Joe CCW permit holder would be fine with a 9mm, but I'd tell every new male officer to carry the .45 for on duty work if they can. For most female officers, by percentage would likely need to carry a 9 (not being sexist, just a statement about hand size).
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That's the issue IMHO with the 45. When I got a new Glock 21C with the compensated barrel, and it seemed to be just a little bit easier to handle the recoil. The first time I qualified on it, I still remember the first volley, and saying to myself "that was it?"
This is my girlfriend's 38 and we both think my Colt Government is easier to shoot. I'm going to upgrade her CCW to a Colt Defender for her birthday. That way we're only buying on kind of ammo.
My nephew is a LEO and carries a 45 on duty but off duty he carries a 9mm with a back up magazine. My good friend who is former military, like me, but now works for the feds carries a 9mm off duty as well. I trust these two.
The thing is this, just carry! Most criminals when they see you have a gun flee. FBI & CDC (why the Center for Disease Control does studies on guns is beyond me) show over 90% will flee. Know this, most of us will never have to pull our handguns out, in the small instance you do its best to have ammo, practice, skill, smarts, and calmness. Just be prepared, practice everyday drawing your weapon, and at least twice a month practice 50 rounds at 15 feet and in. Your best weapon is your mind. 45 or 9mm is an endless debate, but having neither will not help you. JUST CARRY!!
The thing is this, just carry! Most criminals when they see you have a gun flee. FBI & CDC (why the Center for Disease Control does studies on guns is beyond me) show over 90% will flee. Know this, most of us will never have to pull our handguns out, in the small instance you do its best to have ammo, practice, skill, smarts, and calmness. Just be prepared, practice everyday drawing your weapon, and at least twice a month practice 50 rounds at 15 feet and in. Your best weapon is your mind. 45 or 9mm is an endless debate, but having neither will not help you. JUST CARRY!!
And for all the Law Officers on this site please stay safe out there!
As I've said before I love my Colt Government. I personally think the weight of the firearm helps with the recoil along with the light trigger pull.
I'm generally on the 9mm side of the argument. Simply for capacity. There's a fair bit of data where cops are trying to shoot people at short ranges under duress and they don't hit a damn thing. So more bullets is obviously better if you're going to suffer accuracy problems. (This is probably your average EDC'er scenario.)
Or even if you are accurate, if you are putting two or three in a guy, you can't take on too many people if 6 bullets. (This generally falls for the more serene Delta Force among the population).
Delta generally thinks that pistols are for plinking and shooting rabbits, and shotguns are for killing people, so there's that.
Or even if you are accurate, if you are putting two or three in a guy, you can't take on too many people if 6 bullets. (This generally falls for the more serene Delta Force among the population).
Delta generally thinks that pistols are for plinking and shooting rabbits, and shotguns are for killing people, so there's that.
I have 3 EDC guns that I use depending on where I'm going. 1st is my 9mm shield. Very small & light weight 8+1 rounds. I use this as my pocket carry when I'm in my dress clothes. Always carrying 2 extra mags.
2nd is my 9mm Springfield Armory XDM subcompact. 17+1 heavier but this is my favorite EDC as it is accurate, low recoil, and just is imo the best handgun for me. I use this in the fall and winter when I'm wearing jeans. 1 extra mag.
My 3rd EDC is a little .380 two shot that I keep hidden all the time for those times that ....well let's just say I believe my right to carry and protect myself at all times is my right, big brother deal with it.
2nd is my 9mm Springfield Armory XDM subcompact. 17+1 heavier but this is my favorite EDC as it is accurate, low recoil, and just is imo the best handgun for me. I use this in the fall and winter when I'm wearing jeans. 1 extra mag.
My 3rd EDC is a little .380 two shot that I keep hidden all the time for those times that ....well let's just say I believe my right to carry and protect myself at all times is my right, big brother deal with it.
I have a bersa 380 that i use for carry small and lite very reliable and fairly inexpensive under 350
I went with the 9 mostly for ammo availability & cost.
17 rounds & an extra mag or 2, my head on a swivel & I'm good to go!
17 rounds & an extra mag or 2, my head on a swivel & I'm good to go!
I think the original question was 9mm vs 45ACP? Not which gun they go in. What are your goals. I shoot both and have both and have the 40 as well. I have heard first hand reports of people getting hit with multiple rounds of both a 45 (a lady here in town was shot 7 times and walked away) and a police officer told me he shot a crazy guy 6 times with a 9mm.
The FBI is going back to 9mm stating it has many advantages over the 45. Knock down or power is only an effective measurement if you hit the nervous system - head or neck. They further state that only 30% of bullets shot by trained agents hit their target. You have bullet size and speed and type also in the mix. Are you talking a 115 grain 9mm vs a 220 grain 45 or a 147 grain 9mm vs a 230 grain 45?
The comment about shot placement is valid in theory it is not valid in reality. People don't shoot to wing someone, they are taught to shoot to mass. You will naturally run into a fat guy with several layers of clothes that can absorb a 9 or a 45 and lots of them. We aren't all a bunch of Clint Eastwoods running around out here shooting the legs out from underneath people.
Get a good 9mm with a 147 or 124 grain bullet, self defense load such as Hornady Critical Defense, and use a pistol that can carry 17 rounds and is reliable. If the experts are only hitting 30% then out of a magazine of 17 your are going to hit 5.1 rounds. You will undoubtedly be under severe direst in this situation and recoil and noise alone will cause you to loose your senses. The 9mm is much more manageable than the 45 in most cases.
Now that I said all of that, if I was in my house and I heard someone breaking in and I was ready for them - I would not worry as much about having multiple rounds, but what if you have multiple attackers? I carry a 380 and my wife carries a 38 LCP. She has some hand problems and racking a semi auto is not easy for her. She only has 5 shots with her 38+P. We only plan to shoot if threatened and the person is relatively close.
Go with a nice dependable 9mm and get some good ammo, you will be fine.
The FBI is going back to 9mm stating it has many advantages over the 45. Knock down or power is only an effective measurement if you hit the nervous system - head or neck. They further state that only 30% of bullets shot by trained agents hit their target. You have bullet size and speed and type also in the mix. Are you talking a 115 grain 9mm vs a 220 grain 45 or a 147 grain 9mm vs a 230 grain 45?
The comment about shot placement is valid in theory it is not valid in reality. People don't shoot to wing someone, they are taught to shoot to mass. You will naturally run into a fat guy with several layers of clothes that can absorb a 9 or a 45 and lots of them. We aren't all a bunch of Clint Eastwoods running around out here shooting the legs out from underneath people.
Get a good 9mm with a 147 or 124 grain bullet, self defense load such as Hornady Critical Defense, and use a pistol that can carry 17 rounds and is reliable. If the experts are only hitting 30% then out of a magazine of 17 your are going to hit 5.1 rounds. You will undoubtedly be under severe direst in this situation and recoil and noise alone will cause you to loose your senses. The 9mm is much more manageable than the 45 in most cases.
Now that I said all of that, if I was in my house and I heard someone breaking in and I was ready for them - I would not worry as much about having multiple rounds, but what if you have multiple attackers? I carry a 380 and my wife carries a 38 LCP. She has some hand problems and racking a semi auto is not easy for her. She only has 5 shots with her 38+P. We only plan to shoot if threatened and the person is relatively close.
Go with a nice dependable 9mm and get some good ammo, you will be fine.
You guys are making too much out of this. I personally don't carry. However, if I did it would be 9mm.
Historically, the pistol was a last resort close range solution. Your rifle is out of ammo or you are being overwhelmed on the battlefield. In that case, you want to whip out your .45 and take out the enemy who is by now on top of you. Close range. Stopping power.
Portable defense of your perimeter is the job of the 9mm. If you are out and about need to protect your family or general area you need numbers. The 9mm is powerful enough to stop most incursions (we're talking about keeping them away from you, not necessarily killing them). I'd rather have 17 than 9 any day.
Home protection? That's easy. Shotgun.
Historically, the pistol was a last resort close range solution. Your rifle is out of ammo or you are being overwhelmed on the battlefield. In that case, you want to whip out your .45 and take out the enemy who is by now on top of you. Close range. Stopping power.
Portable defense of your perimeter is the job of the 9mm. If you are out and about need to protect your family or general area you need numbers. The 9mm is powerful enough to stop most incursions (we're talking about keeping them away from you, not necessarily killing them). I'd rather have 17 than 9 any day.
Home protection? That's easy. Shotgun.
I practically have chick hands, so I carry a Glock 22 .40 cal. I absolutely love shooting it. I shot a Springfield 1911 .45 and Beretta 9 mm when I was in the Marines, and I hated them both. I shot expert somehow with the Beretta, but it felt giant in my hands. I have used the same Glock for 18 years now, and it feels like an extension of my hand when shooting. I have never had one misfire in 18 years. I even carry in in the small of my back while off duty. Not an ideal off duty, but it will certainly work very well if ever needed.
I am probably gonna replace it with a new Glock this year. I would never shoot another gun. Somebody else mentioned the Sig. I have a Sig Sauer and H&K and they both feel like a tank in my hands. Very heavy compared to my Glock. Just some thoughts to think about.
About 4 years ago I started selling/trading my handguns in various calibers and then purchased handguns (all Sigs) in 9mm...even traded My Colt Gold Cup and Browning Hi-Power that each has less than a box of ammo through them.
I just shoot more consistent groups in 9mm and also only need to stock 1 caliber now instead of half a dozen.
9mm ammo is cheap and easy to find and I shoot a lot more now than when I had multiple calibers.
I just shoot more consistent groups in 9mm and also only need to stock 1 caliber now instead of half a dozen.
9mm ammo is cheap and easy to find and I shoot a lot more now than when I had multiple calibers.
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"summersatthelake, post: 2697728, member: 8064"]About 4 years ago I started selling/trading my handguns in various calibers and then purchased handguns (all Sigs) in 9mm..."
I also find Sigs addicting, especially the German made Sigs.
I also find Sigs addicting, especially the German made Sigs.
:Cool: ok, ok, perhaps the wrong terminology(tumble) the first time I shot a 45 the bullet missed a stump I was shooting at by 20 feet going up through a canopy of trees. the hillbilly that owned the gun said they will do that once in while. maybe you should just not go target practicing with me. my second shot went right between two knots.
Hmmmm, were you anticipating recoil or limp wristing? Bullets go straight, may not hit the target but straight. I've never heard of them going up unless the muzzle is pointed up.
What make does the Hillwilliam own?