OT: "A Date Which Will Live in Infamy"

Colbert17!

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Eighty second anniversary of the Japanese sneak attack on Pearl Harbor. As I've said before I had the opportunity to visit a few years ago and highly recommend it. The Missouri is anchored on the site of where the Oklahoma was berthed. If you stand on the starboard side you can almost imagine the Japanese torpedo planes making their run over the neighboring Loch.
At Dawn We Slept is the best book on the attack. It's required reading for all the Park Rangers at Pearl.
This is Lou Conter, age 101, the last survivor of the USS Arizona. This was a report from last year. Guy looks pretty good for 101.

 

RC1991

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Last year when my daughter was a senior in HS and was in the band they travelled to Hawaii and marched in the Pearl Harbor memorial parade on Dec 7th. They also performed on the USS Missouri the day before and were one of about 25 bands from around the country that made the trip and the only one from WA state. They had a ceremony before the parade and one of the speakers was a Pearl Harbor survivor who was (I think) 100 years old. They usually livestream the ceremony and the parade on YouTube.

 

ashokan

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DJ Spanky

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Jul 25, 2001
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Let us never forget, yet we really seemed to have done just that.

But let's honor those who still lie in Pearl Harbor.



And, because it was never really publicized, those who lie here also:



That is the remains of the USS Utah, I did a thread on this in July: OT: Learned something new - the USS Utah

And here is a picture of the Arizona under way in New York Harbor, forget the year:

 

RUTGERS95

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crew were trapped until after Christmas and we couldn't get them out. heroes!!!!!!!
 

motorb54

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This morning I watched the first 15 minutes of Good Morning America and they failed to mention that today was Pearl Harbor Day. Weak.
Not at all surprised.
My father-in-law joined the Marines using his older brother's birth certificate.
Marine sent to the Pacific. He wouldn't talk about it.

One of my uncles (who I never knew) is buried in France. One of the "greatest generation"
who was a U.S. Army casualty. He came to the USA at 13 from Europe, became a citizen, then volunteered to serve, and returned to Europe never to see his adopted country again.

You think the scum "protesting" on these Ivy League campuses would serve?
 

fg7321

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My Uncle Lou joined the Marines on Dec 8th . Fought on Tarawa . Family legend is he joined the Marines because he liked their uniforms.
 
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ashokan

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This morning I watched the first 15 minutes of Good Morning America and they failed to mention that today was Pearl Harbor Day. Weak.

Media also ignored JFK's 60th shooting anniversary (Probably because the hive is disappearing RFK. Jr).
Under normal circumstances there just comes a point where most battles fade from recollection.
These days its worse because history is being blotted out and fabricated .

That aside, America girls are infatuated with Japanese culture for a couple of decades now.
For girl gamers, Final Fantasy 7 is what COD is to guys.
They still wear Tamagotchis and consume a lot of anime (they like the cute boy characters with big eyes/swords). Go to ComicCons and its Loliatas and Kawaii (cute) characters all over the place.

Knowing all that, I was guessing GMA was produced by a young woman and it is (Simone Swink).
I saw her twitter and she was praising a book about a young girl in post-war Japan.
So none of this surprised because I know how young girls do history these days
Millions of youngs (now running everything) will not be inclined to memorialize a Japanese attack (Hiroshima more likely)


 

mdk02

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That generation has almost all passed. Their kids are in the midst of retiring. Hell, about 25% of the population was not alive on 9/11.

The impression I get is there is little in school taught about it. I think awareness jumped when "Saving Private Ryan" was released. But that was 25 years ago. Still on television but not the same. A smaller bump for "Band of Brothers".

The are some families like mine where specific people are remembered. Combining semesters abroad in Europe and a day trip to that graveyard in "Private Ryan" have made these Millennials much more aware. But they're the exception, not the rule.

Might have been nice to see "Tora, Tora, Tora" (NOT that abominable, fact mangling soap opera "Pearl Harbor") shown on occasion.
 
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RUPete

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Last year when my daughter was a senior in HS and was in the band they travelled to Hawaii and marched in the Pearl Harbor memorial parade on Dec 7th. They also performed on the USS Missouri the day before and were one of about 25 bands from around the country that made the trip and the only one from WA state. They had a ceremony before the parade and one of the speakers was a Pearl Harbor survivor who was (I think) 100 years old. They usually livestream the ceremony and the parade on YouTube.

That's a great experience for her and the band. Where did they travel from?
 

RUich

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Agree with the OP about Pearl Harbor.
My only regret is that had we not had Truman as president, the Missouri would not have been the ship the surrender was signed. Actually, the New Jersey did a lot more fighting than the MO and there were some bent feelings at the time that they had not been chosen.
As to remembering, today's "kids" don't even remember Vietnam.
For the ones who have yet to go to Pearl, give yourself at least a full day to do the place.
 

PiscatawayMike

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Today, my thoughts are with Alex Kopacz, on the right in the photo below. He was a Pearl Harbor survivor. To me he was Uncle Dink or Dingy (nicknames used far more often than his given name by those close to him). While growing up, I have many great memories of him. He was a proud veteran, but like most vets, he didn't readily share his experiences of his time in the armed forces. I raise a glass in honor of those who lost their lives as well as those who survived and went on to protect ours.

 

MADHAT1

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One of the worst days in American history.
But that generation proved strong enough to overcome it and go on to victory , thought at a tremendous cost .
May Gob bless and have mercy on the souls all those that died that day and those that died in the War that day caused the USA to enter .

“This Is No Joke: This Is War”: A Live Radio Broadcast of the Attack on Pearl Harbor​

>A radio broadcast from station KTU in Honolulu the day of the attack captured the events as they unfolded over several hours. From the roof of a Honolulu office building, the radio reporter described significant damage. Apparently, he was calling New York City on the phone, while the New York station broadcast his call to the nation at large. <
https://historymatters.gmu.edu/d/5167
 
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RC1991

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That's a great experience for her and the band. Where did they travel from?
Washington State outside of Seattle. I believe there were bands from MA, NJ, CA and quite a number of others. She said it was a great experience. My dad (her grandfather) was a WWII vet (European theater) and although she was never able to meet him as he passed on a few years before she was born I think that trip made some sort of connection.
 

RUPete

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Washington State outside of Seattle. I believe there were bands from MA, NJ, CA and quite a number of others. She said it was a great experience. My dad (her grandfather) was a WWII vet (European theater) and although she was never able to meet him as he passed on a few years before she was born I think that trip made some sort of connection.
That’s great! And after reading several posts in this thread about how the importance of the day is getting lost on younger generations with time, trips like these are more important than ever. I went to Gettysburg over Memorial Day weekend many years ago and they have a very moving ceremony. Beyond the reading of the address, they had a bunch of scouts plant flags on several graves. Have to keep sharing the stories.
 

Colbert17!

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Makes me wonder that if this happened today some people would argue that declaring war was not a "proportional response."
 
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RC1991

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That’s great! And after reading several posts in this thread about how the importance of the day is getting lost on younger generations with time, trips like these are more important than ever. I went to Gettysburg over Memorial Day weekend many years ago and they have a very moving ceremony. Beyond the reading of the address, they had a bunch of scouts plant flags on several graves. Have to keep sharing the stories.
Completely agree. Just saw on the news this evening that there were only 5 survivors that were able to attend the ceremony this year. I remember as a kid speaking with a number of my dad’s friends at the VFW hall. They also happened to sponsor our scout troop.
 
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rob kight

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Unfortunately, there were warning signs and radar reports an hour before the attack that got ignored. May have saved some lives if believed and acted upon.
Reminds us that Israel had some warning signs that Hamas was up to something, but those people were ignored.
All the men and women who served in WWII were heroes. Without the US military in WWII, the world would be very different. The greatest Generation lost a lot of good people during the war who made the ultimate sacrifice to save the world from some very evil and ruthless people. We still owe them a big debt.
 

Colbert17!

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Approximately an hour prior to the attack the USS Ward fired upon and sank a Japanese mini sub outside the harbor entrance. In a bit of irony later in the war the Ward itself was sunk by a kamikaze attack off Leyte.
The date was December 7, 1944.
 

Kbee3

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I'll never understand how the Japanese thought they could win a full-on war with the US...a pissed off US.
 

Colbert17!

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I'll never understand how the Japanese thought they could win a full-on war with the US...a pissed off US.
Yamamoto knew that it couldn't happen. He was hoping that the Navy would have their carriers there. Without them we would have been defenseless all the way to the Golden Gate.
On that day the US had only three carriers in the Pacific.
Lexington was on it's way to Midway to deliver planes. Some of it's planes actually arrived back at Pearl during the attack.
Enterprise was returning from Wake Island after doing the same.
Saratoga was in San Diego.

 

ashokan

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I'll never understand how the Japanese thought they could win a full-on war with the US...a pissed off US.

AXIS - Japan was on a bigger team

Hitler and Japanese didn't think much of US people who they assumed would not fight back.
Victor Davis Hanson also adds that the Axis would not have attacked if they knew how humongous US industrial production would become (300,000 war and transport planes in a few years alone).
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

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The Real Biggest Myths About World War II, According to a Military Historian
by Olivia B. Waxman Time.com, May 8, 2021

Good stuff... LOGISTICS.. that link mentions in terms of Rummel's failures. That.. and out manufacturing base.. won us WWII. We might still be able to pull off logistics in a pinch.. but manufacturing? We are in danger. And the logistics? That was from a time when the US military did everything involved.. transporting everything even cooking the food. Now.. there are a lot of private contractors. No one knows what would happen should we need to mobilize on that level again.
 
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ashokan

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Good stuff... LOGISTICS.. that link mentions in terms of Rummel's failures. That.. and out manufacturing base.. won us WWII. We might still be able to pull off logistics in a pinch.. but manufacturing? We are in danger. And the logistics? That was from a time when the US military did everything involved.. transporting everything even cooking the food. Now.. there are a lot of private contractors. No one knows what would happen should we need to mobilize on that level again.

I heard an interview with an expert who said that If the US started now to replace what was sent to Ukraine, even in five years everything wouldn't be replaced. US defense surge capacity is gone. No surprise since we couldn't even ramp-up PPE for pandemic.
 
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CERU00

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Yamamoto knew that it couldn't happen. He was hoping that the Navy would have their carriers there. Without them we would have been defenseless all the way to the Golden Gate.
On that day the US had only three carriers in the Pacific.
Lexington was on it's way to Midway to deliver planes. Some of it's planes actually arrived back at Pearl during the attack.
Enterprise was returning from Wake Island after doing the same.
Saratoga was in San Diego.

This. Without our carriers they'd have freedom and time especially to go after the raw materials they needed to build their empire. If we had lost even 1 or 2 carriers, this war would have played out very differently.
 

Roy_Faulker

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Love this back-and-forth.

This is one of my favorite topics!

If you are into audiobooks, I found one recently that knocked my socks off. It’s called “The Dead Drink First “ by Dale Maharidge. It is a first person narration of his quest to uncover his father’s history on Okinawa, based on a picture from his father’s workshop. don’t think it’s more than five hours, but it reminded me of my grandfather.
 

GoodOl'Rutgers

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Love this back-and-forth.

This is one of my favorite topics!

If you are into audiobooks, I found one recently that knocked my socks off. It’s called “The Dead Drink First “ by Dale Maharidge. It is a first person narration of his quest to uncover his father’s history on Okinawa, based on a picture from his father’s workshop. don’t think it’s more than five hours, but it reminded me of my grandfather.
I know I have mentioned this before.. but my Dad signed up for the Marines at 16 years old before Pearl Harbor, as we were ramping up for war (in Europe, I assume). He told some stories about guys and drinking a few celebrities.. Eddie Albert (Green Acres guy who saved many of his fellow Marines on Tarawa)... a household name celeb that he called a cowardly officer who he got busted in rank for punching out (cannot verify who but you'd be surprised)... Anne Miller who he got to Jitterbug with.. and someone who opened his house in California to Marines.. I forget who.. maybe Edward Arnold? .. Drinking with MOH winner Johnny Basilone... those were the only stories we'd get and.. being kids.. were always moving on to the next thing rather quickly.

He'd have a list of 5 beach landings he'd mention.. like a resume of companies you worked at. It is so long ago I forget the order... but among them were Guam, Bougainville, Tarawa, Saipan, Tinian... I think that's it.. but he was given some "rest" on Saipan where his duty became driving supplies from beach head port to the airstrip and during one of these trips a "Jap" jumped out into the road and threw a grenade and sent him and his truck and supplies of aircraft tires over the ledge here he laid half-blown up until the next truck found him.

That's the how he got injured and had a metal plate in his head and leg story. Then when a TV show or movie showed war souvenirs his story as to why he had none to speak of was mentioned... while recovering at the beachhead base and waiting for a hospital ship troop transport to take him home.. his stuff got loaded on the ship but he was in such bad shape they kept him immobile and would wait for the next one (they expected he'd die). That ship that he was supposed to be on.. got sunk.

When we was very old and battling parkinsons, an old war movie came on the TV. For years my mom would insist we change the channel is my dad was around. He had night terrors occasionally of which we kids were largely unaware... the scene was of a "dirty jap" playing dead on the beach and then getting up and shooting some Marines in the back. So I jokingly asked him if that ever happened to him and he answered:

"Well, sometimes you had to play dead. They'd walk over you. There was a lot of back and forth."

Chilling.

The greatest generation, indeed. From the Great Depression to securing the future for American Freedom and Democracy... if we can keep it.
 

Roy_Faulker

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I started a War Stories thread a few years ago - always hoped people would keep it alive as a living history of anonymous histories from the various personalities on this board (like the one word or hot chicks over 50 threads lol).

Heroes indeed.