No, I'm not saying that. I'm not sure what I said that sounded like I was saying that.
OT - Crypto Investments
- Thread starter greenbean.sixpack
- Start date
Well i don't know of a savings account where i can lose my money.
I do know of some investments where i can. And i've found them!
I'm not being a smart a$$ i'm legit curious.
I assumed you were referring to losing purchasing power. Of course, any asset can lose purchasing power.
The USD in your savings account absolutely loses purchasing power.
So that makes it no different than me investing in the stock market. I can lose purchasing power there too.
Are you saying that because any asset can lose purchasing power, there is no difference between holding one asset class over another?
If so, I disagree. For example, both bitcoin and $VOO can lose purchasing power; however, there was a big difference between holding bitcoin and $VOO over the past five years.
I'm asking in your scenario of "savings" vs "investment"
Whats the difference in bitcoin vs regular savings vs mutual funds
Bitcoin can be viewed as a savings vehicle rather than an investment because its primary value lies in its ability to preserve purchasing power over time, not in generating returns through productivity or profits like stocks. Unlike equities, which represent ownership in companies with cash flows, bitcoin is a scarce digital asset with a fixed supply (21 million), designed to resist inflation and monetary debasement. Bitcoin provides a way to save outside the traditional financial system, protecting wealth from currency dilution rather than seeking yield or capital growth through risk-taking.
Ffs yada yada yada
What’s the difference in all that BS and mutual funds and cash as it pertains to saving 17ing money.
it doesnt have dick to do with savings....if youre not trying to at least hold value then youre doing it wrong
grok say:
To rank these assets for holding value (real return and stability) since 2020:
- Cryptocurrencies (Bitcoin/Ethereum): Highest nominal returns (~800-900%). Best for risk-tolerant investors.
- Stocks (S&P 500): Strong real returns (~8-10% annually), moderate volatility, and liquidity make them a reliable choice for most investors.
- Real Estate (Residential): Solid real returns (~3-5% annually), tangible asset, but less liquid and regionally dependent.
- Gold: Moderate real returns (~4-5% annually), good inflation hedge, but no income and lower growth.
- Bonds: Poor real returns due to inflation and rate hikes, though safer.
- Cash: Worst performer, eroded by inflation.
I mean I could replace a lot of stocks for cryptocurrency and get the same results
I don't know what definition of savings you are using that doesn't include holding value (purchasing power).
To those genuinely curious, this is a helpful article published today (7/18). It isn't directly addressing the issue of savings vs. investment, but the framework it uses should help someone understand why so many holders of bitcoin don't think of bitcoin the same way they think of their investment in $NVDA or other stocks.
Logan Beirne is the bestselling author of “Blood of Tyrants.” He teaches corporate law at Yale Law School.
Last edited:
There's a difference between not being able to provide an answer and you not agreeing with it (or understanding it).
It is totally fine for you not to agree with the answer I provided. Your response makes me think you didn't understand it.
I have politely tried to answer your question. The rest is up to you.
You didn’t really say how it’s savings compared to mutual funds.
you just said what the difference in bitcoin and mutual funds were.
gas and diesel are different but they are both fuel.
I think ultimately nobody knows how well BTC can hold purchasing power over the long haul. Until you can directly buy something meaningful with it (like a house, vehicle, or even a chicken sandwich or something), then it will remain eternally speculative and forever tied to whatever its value is in USD.
What does the "Genius Act" mean for the future of crypto? Of course many predict gloom and doom, end of the world type stuff
.... but some articles suggest it may be the beginning of crypto becoming a real currency to purchase everyday items.
.... but some articles suggest it may be the beginning of crypto becoming a real currency to purchase everyday items.
Last edited:
My guess is that if in 2009 I had told you bitcoin would grow from nothing to a market cap of $2.342 T in 16 years, you would have considered that holding purchasing power over the long haul. Will 20 years be enough? 30?
Your second comment could also apply to gold. Gold has a market cap of $22.533 T, so that is a bullish comparison.
Good question. I for one do not trust it. Somebody convince me otherwise.
And, what does this new law do?
Last edited:
You are using a hindsight fallacy to look at only 2 specific points in time, and ignoring the chaos in between. When it comes to long term purchasing power, volatility matters. If I have to heavily depend on when I convert to USD to make some purchase, based on the heavily cyclical nature of the asset as well as other external factors, then I don’t really have as much power as I think.
From May 2016 - May 2017, BTC increased in USD value by 242%, an enormous percentage.
From May 2017 - May 2018, it did even better, increased by 444%.
From May 2018 - May 2020, mehhhhh. 5.27% CAGR over 2 years, barely outpacing inflation…..and it spent the better part of a year down 50-60% from the beginning of the period.
From May 2020 to May 2021, another huge spike, 397%…..but with the important caveat that it was fueled heavily by COVID hysteria and a rate of artificial monetary manipulation never seen before in history and will likely never be seen again, and it still didn’t exceed the 2017-2018 growth period. This is an important data point for me.
Then it starts to get more dicey….
May 2021 - May 2024…..3 whole years. CAGR of only 9.21%, with a period of 1 year where it was down 40-60% from the start of the period, 50-70% from the end. Not great, and thoroughly outperformed by the S&P in this time.
May 2024 - May 2025, it rallied….up 69%. A lot of that boost from the election. But still, the spikes are starting to get smaller and smaller.
Big picture, say you want to buy a house. You have $500k in BTC. If you were in the market in 2018 - 2020, or 2021 - 2024, you’d have likely made a big mistake in liquidating….say….half your BTC to get a down payment. Whether you did it all at once, or in smaller increments over time in that window, it probably wouldn’t matter. That’s 5 whole years of time. That in and of itself presents a major purchasing power problem. If the purchasing power depends on the draw down rate, draw down timing, etc., then its an illusion.
What I see is an asset that is trending towards a gold-esque rate of return model, likely with higher overall return, but also greater volatility. The spike magnitudes are decreasing, and the periods between them are lengthening. This doesn’t scream “purchasing power” to me. It still isn’t worthless, of course. But I’m still not buying the hype as anything more than a low % allocation for exposure.
Sure. See above. I like it a lot more than gold. But I don’t love either one.
Last edited:
My point was that this statement…
…ignores that bitcoin has proven for 16 years that it is an effective long-term store of value.
Have not read it all but what I have heard was there are now rules in place. Crypto Guys were worried about being prosecuted. They were leaving the United States because they did not know the rules. Now they will stay. Also, it can or it will be allowed to be spent like US Dollars. This will strengthen the Dollar around the world. It is being locked down as another US currency that people in other nations will be spending in US Dollars when they use it.
My counterpoint is that BTC made the majority of those gains from 2009-2018, which was a period in which a microscopic % of the population had any working understanding of what it was, how it worked, or had the means to access it.
I’m far more interested in what its doing in the past 4 years than I am the previous 12, when you had the counterculture mania….followed by the COVID money printing mania. It’s not exactly the most stable time period to analyze. And the past 4 years largely mimic the overall equities market as a whole, but with more volatility. So again, from a store of value perspective, the trend is that it is not more favorable than other equities or indices.
4-year CAGR:
- bitcoin - 40%
- S&P 500 - 10%
The volatility is a gift. It scares away the tourists and rewards those with conviction.
Perhaps you are actually looking for a short-term store of value.
bitcoin's response:
