OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
Once 400 miles is the norm in 5 years, everyone is gonna be jumping on the EV bandwagon
Nice try.
Your solution for increasing range is "just add more batteries" and the battery fairy delivering low cost, high energy density cells.
We certainly don't agree.
And inventory is piling up even with limited production. Will be out of cash next year. Is it all over for Lucid?
An article came out the other day talking about his private plane trips. Seems Mr. Saving The Planet (his Indian name) is one of the most carbon-spewing individuals on the planet.
Apparently he speaks with forked tongue. Who woulda guessed.
Me too, obviously based on my recent purchase and potential next purchase (which comes with a gas guzzler tax). But I’d guess there‘s a very good chance I’ll get an EV SUV in the next 5-10 years. I do believe in the technology and its potential to reduce greenhouse gasses, despite my teasing of the Teslerati.
Everyone who has access to home charging and isn’t politicizing things, perhaps. If the 400mis real world miles.
I wouldn’t be surprised to see higher-end EVs capable of closer to 500 miles of range in 5 years. And I would be surprised if that’s not 1/3, or more, of all EVs in 10 years.
At least 50% of global car sales will be EVs by 2028. A majority of those vehicles will be using LFP cells, so no, 400 mi range won't be the norm.
My solution? No, that's what they're actually doing. Among other things.
You've done absolutely nothing to prove your assertion that range will stall out.
No worries. We can just revisit the topic every few months as reality continuously proves you wrong.
300-350 is becoming the norm now, you’re crazy if you don’t think it’ll be 400 then. Yeah some budget cars will remain around that range, but LFP or not, the normal range is not stopping where it’s currently at.
I’m going to agree with @BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap here. EVs prices at the avg car prices now will not have the range of 400. I don’t think they’ll get to 350. There will be options to have 400 plus range but it will be very expensive.
They are already at 300-350. Range has consistently increased 10-20 miles every year.
Lol...as you look at your smartphone... how ironic.
If you actually cared about supporting American industry and workers, you'd be driving an EV.
https://www.cars.com/articles/2022-...ndex-which-cars-are-the-most-american-451057/
Really? I'm not making some grand prediction. This is what is actually happening.
https://media.ford.com/content/ford...ew-lfp-battery-plant--new-battery-chemis.html
https://europe.autonews.com/automakers/stellantis-will-cut-costs-europe-lfp-batteries
https://cnevpost.com/2022/09/23/byd-chairman-believes-lfp-batteries-right-choice-for-china/
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/lfp-battery-in-your-next-ev-tesla-and-others-say-yes
Feel free to ignore reality and carry on in fantasy land.
One of us is paying attention to what's going on in the industry. Don't worry. You will be able to get your 400 mi range EV, but you're going pay a premium and high range vehicles certainly won't be the norm.
None of those links say anything about vehicle range ...you know, what we're actually talking about and the spec that has been rising since the first modern EVs and will continue to do so.
I'm not worried. Like the rest of the market, I won't be buying an EV until it has enough range for my needs.
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Norway has a population of 5M (much smaller than NJ). It's a lot easier to convert a small nation that is wealthy and most live in confined areas with mass transit. It's hard to compare that to the US where people commute considerable distances with no mass transit options.
All true enough, but that's why Norway is looked at more as an early adopting pioneer, not necessarily a direct model.
BTW, noticed a real uptick in EVs parked at the ski resort this year - Rivians, Teslas, Kias, etc. Definitely more locals, less distance commuters, here than there, but still found it interesting. No chargers at the resort.
They don't need to say anything about range to understand what I'm talking about. Clearly you need some education on lithium, iron, phosphate (LFP) battery packs and their capabilities. No one is getting 400+ mi range with an LFP pack. Period. You're arguing with the laws of physics and chemistry. No need to include me anymore
It's not just Norway. In 2022, BEV sales were >20% of all sales in Europe and China. We're the laggards here in the US. Exponential growth is sneaky.
Yeah, they kinda do. Just because a battery cell is less dense, doesn't mean the range of the end vehicle will decrease. There are now trailers riding around with LFP packs with as much capacity as your Tesla. Manufacturers have not hesitated to stuff more and more batteries in and will need to continue improving range if they really want to convert the populace.
You're also conveniently ignoring the other tech on the horizon.
Like I said, though, happy to let reality prove you wrong on a weekly basis. No need to continue now.
OTOH, Norway is cold, cold, cold - reducing battery effectiveness. In any case, someone has to be first and the experience has been on the whole positive. Here's a chart of EV adoption by country and US States. I can confirm the EV revolution has been quite positive in California.
Battery tech is not the only way of improving range. More slippery designs (aka better aerodynamics), new and/or improved regeneration approaches, improvements in tires, are just some of the areas in which we can expect rapid range-enhancing development.
The biggest delays in range improvements will be working this stuff into model refresh cycles. More expensive cars will see it sooner, as happens with most automotive improvements.
It’s really weird to see the loudest EV evangelists in the thread be so negative about improvements that will help speed EV adoption.
The biggest delays in range improvements will be working this stuff into model refresh cycles. More expensive cars will see it sooner, as happens with most automotive improvements.
It’s really weird to see the loudest EV evangelists in the thread be so negative about improvements that will help speed EV adoption.
Great, then I should only need to plug in twice a month at night at home. Better yet, maybe the Mall will install free Supercharges by then and I could 'fill up' when I do an exercise walk.
Humans tend to underestimate exponential growth and perceive it as linear. Clearly, some have better understanding than others.
https://www.ev-volumes.com/
I enjoy your faux arrogance in multiple ways. So thanks for that.Humans tend to underestimate exponential growth and perceive it as linear. Clearly, some have better understanding than others.
https://www.ev-volumes.com/
Yeah, in a positive and supporting way. So what’s your point?
You opposed to people expressing gratitude? I know it’s sometimes hard to tell with me, but I was being serious.
As expected. . . .
The Ford Mustang Mach-E has faced considerable demand since its launch, to the point where The Blue Oval has struggled to keep up amid various supply chain shortages and rising commodities prices.
That total also means that Ford has built 19,599 Mach-Es in the first four months of the year, though given the quick rise in numbers, that figure should grow quickly moving forward.
Now, the cheapest Mach-E is less expensive than the most affordable Model Y, though there are other considerations – including range and performance – shoppers will consider
The Ford Mustang Mach-E has faced considerable demand since its launch, to the point where The Blue Oval has struggled to keep up amid various supply chain shortages and rising commodities prices.
That total also means that Ford has built 19,599 Mach-Es in the first four months of the year, though given the quick rise in numbers, that figure should grow quickly moving forward.
Now, the cheapest Mach-E is less expensive than the most affordable Model Y, though there are other considerations – including range and performance – shoppers will consider
A comment in response to that tweet does a good job of illustrating the difference in what people are looking at when buying a car. The comment said, in effect, that with his Tesla “driving becomes almost effortless”.
That’s ideal for people who aren’t into the act of driving. Who view a car as a tool, a means to get from point A to point B. Who aren’t looking for excitement in driving other than a couple moments of acceleration from a stoplight. They want effortless and uneventful.
And that’s great. A totally valid viewpoint about driving.
But for many others, driving is far more than just that. Our cars are toys to play with, not just a tool. We are passionate about the act of driving. Effortless equals boring, a bad thing. We want to shift gears, we want to do our own braking, we want to perfectly balance the car as we transition from braking to turning for the apex, and then from turning to exiting a corner under heavy acceleration. We’re not interested in quiet, we want loud and raucous.
There’s a driving axiom about this. It says: driving a slow car fast is better than driving a fast car slow.
And the reason for that is, in large part, because it requires way more effort. And way more skill.
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Well said.
Although for my part, I'm done shifting gears the old fashioned way. A really good flappy-paddle gearbox outperforms even the best manuals. And your better production DCTs do a really great job of knowing what gear they're supposed to be in, under any conditions.