We've been down this road already. You clearly have a disconnect between what is actually happening in the battery and EV industry and what you want to happen.
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
We have been down this road, and I provided evidence while you provided ...what? Gut feelz ...from inside a belly full of dogshit? Convincing.
I follow the EV industry daily. Ranges have been and will continue to increase.
I think you'll be proven incorrect. What even makes you so certain batteries, as we think of them today at least, will be the primary source of power for EVs in 50 years? They're expensive, hard to make, heavy and bulky and overly susceptible to temperature extremes and moisture.
Automotive, energy and propulsion technologies have steadily advanced since they were first invented. That advancement is not about to grind to a halt now. It's laughable to suggest otherwise.
Belly focuses way too much on single details in a bid to make himself sound smarter, meanwhile missing the larger picture.
On the bright side, he uses puns well what with his whole “we’ve been down this road” statement in an automotive discussion thread
Problem is he’s letting his metaphorical FSD have the controls on his trips down the road, causing him to experience the logical argument equivalent of crashes into emergency vehicles.
Ranges will 100% hit in the next 5 years. It’s what consumers demand.
Only people taking the stance are EV owners who don’t want their cars to depreciate.
Only people taking the stance are EV owners who don’t want their cars to depreciate.
Not sure if this is just an artists rendering, but if this is the actual design of the upcoming Porsche 3 row SUV, well, uuuuuuuuuuuuuuugly. Not quite as bad as the Cybertruck, but a not too distant second. Ugly. Laughably ugly.
Does not matter. Until an OEM can make one profitably it is Teslas world and the OEMs are just living in it. That is reality right now.
These articles are comically bad and full of misinformation and disinformation. Where's the disinformation board when you need it?
First several comments under story are interesting and call into question the validity of the assumptions in the article:
"1 day ago
Okay I'll bite. A typical EV has a battery capacity of 70kwh and can (very conservatively) go 210 miles on it. That's three miles per kwh. An above average kwh cost in the U.S. is 15 cents. So
it costs 5 cents/mile energy cost to drive.
A typical small car gets 30 miles per gallon and a low price for a gallon of gas is three dollars. So that's ten cents per mile for gas energy cost.
Note I've somewhat overestimated electric cost and underestimated gas cost. Electric is still
much cheaper if charged at home.
Real numbers.. gas is around $3.60 per gallon this week and my electric charge in DC metro is about 12 cents/kwh."
"13 hours ago
My electric bill at our house for the year prior to me getting my Kona EV compared to me charging the next complete year only went up by about $100 a month. This means that I charged my car, put about 2,000 a month on my EV, and only had to pay about $100. Those are real numbers from my electric bill. That's 5 cents per mile. My wifes audi has to be filled up once a week if I drive it to work, and that is $60 a fillup. It is 41.67% the cost to charge my car over my wifes comparable audi Q3."
"11 hours ago
Ok real would I spend 35.00 to drive my model 3 the same miles in my 22 mustang GT and it cost 400.00 in gas. I charge at home at .11 kWh the model 3 is faster and as fun to drive it’s also better on the track."
"6 hours ago
These numbers are credible. I was spending around $150 per month in gas for my G35 in 2011. When I bought a Nissan Leaf my electric bill went up about $15 per month, but, of course, my gasoline bill dropped to zero."
The original post asked about 500 mi ranges as "the standard". Since you follow the EV industry daily, what signs are you seeing that points to this happening?
This is shameful. Yahoo may have surpassed Business Insider for worst anti-EV propaganda.These articles are comically bad and full of misinformation and disinformation. Where's the disinformation board when you need it?
First several comments under story are interesting and call into question the validity of the assumptions in the article:
"1 day ago
Okay I'll bite. A typical EV has a battery capacity of 70kwh and can (very conservatively) go 210 miles on it. That's three miles per kwh. An above average kwh cost in the U.S. is 15 cents. So
it costs 5 cents/mile energy cost to drive.
A typical small car gets 30 miles per gallon and a low price for a gallon of gas is three dollars. So that's ten cents per mile for gas energy cost.
Note I've somewhat overestimated electric cost and underestimated gas cost. Electric is still
much cheaper if charged at home.
Real numbers.. gas is around $3.60 per gallon this week and my electric charge in DC metro is about 12 cents/kwh."
"13 hours ago
My electric bill at our house for the year prior to me getting my Kona EV compared to me charging the next complete year only went up by about $100 a month. This means that I charged my car, put about 2,000 a month on my EV, and only had to pay about $100. Those are real numbers from my electric bill. That's 5 cents per mile. My wifes audi has to be filled up once a week if I drive it to work, and that is $60 a fillup. It is 41.67% the cost to charge my car over my wifes comparable audi Q3."
"11 hours ago
Ok real would I spend 35.00 to drive my model 3 the same miles in my 22 mustang GT and it cost 400.00 in gas. I charge at home at .11 kWh the model 3 is faster and as fun to drive it’s also better on the track."
"6 hours ago
These numbers are credible. I was spending around $150 per month in gas for my G35 in 2011. When I bought a Nissan Leaf my electric bill went up about $15 per month, but, of course, my gasoline bill dropped to zero."
I have posted my share of stinkers that I grab from my mobile phone when in a sleep-induced state. Some of them are worth it for comedic value. People run with this sheet as gospel which is funny, anything to support their narrative and EV hate.
I am still beyond thrilled with my F150 Lightning. Near the top of my list is I have yet to "refuel" anywhere except home or work. Super convenient and extraordinarily cheap to recharge at home where we have solar panels on the roof and the electric will soon be essentially free, or at work where we have free charging. No more having to take time to stop for gas. Saving time and money on maintenance too. Acceleration and ride/comfort is far superior to any pickup truck I have ever driven (we always rent a pickup truck in our 3-4 trips per year to Arizona). Can't find anything not to like.
I will eventually be taking a longer trip where I have to rely on charging and paying to charge, and that will be a bit of a shock (no pun) and perhaps a challenge, but too many positives to outweigh any negatives that will crop up once in a rare while. Life as an EV owner is good.
In my experience this is the general consensus amongst actual EV owners, most are overall happy with their purchase.
That's surely true. It's also true of any type of car owners in general. Just like it's true of most purchasers of toaster-ovens and washing machines.
Choice-supportive bias or post-purchase rationalization is generally very strong with us humans.
I have no idea about the correctness of this, nor do I care since automaker profitability is utterly uninteresting to me. But it ain’t all about me, and some of you seem to care, so…
I like the ability to get to 7.5 ft bed but don’t like the fact that you lose the back seat. I think a regular crew cab instead of super crew cab and a 6.5 ft bed is the ideal setup
What does that have to do with my happiness as an EV owner? I have never been so thrilled with a vehicle, and I have owned many. I don't think I will ever buy another ICE vehicle.
For the life of me, I don't understand why people show twitter links for articles instead of links to the source. Anyhow...
The Manhattan Institute is funded by fossil fuels giants and the Koch brothers. Did you happen to notice all of their "research" supports right-wing talking points?
I stopped reading at "No one knows when or whether EVs will reach economic parity with the cars that most people drive".
Ummm.... they've already reached economic parity.
I agree the article Bac linked, which is suspiciously propagandist in tone anyway, is not relevant to your enjoyment of your new vehicle.
OTOH, IIRC, the Lightning is your first pickup truck, no? If so, I'm curious how much you attribute your happiness to the vehicle's propulsion method versus other factors such as the vehicles build quality, it's elevation above surrounding traffic, it's comfort, etc.?
For me, when I first bought a new GMC Suburban (years back), it was my first large SUV and, as such, my first experience sitting way up higher than surrounding traffic, which I really liked a lot for the great sight lines while driving. It had super comfortable leather seats, was hugely spacious inside, and was quiet and comfortable as hell. And it got over 600 miles per tank. The ultimate family road-tripper vehicle.
I liked that vehicle so much I kept it for around 20 years. The kids all drove it after they got their licenses. And the entire time, and to this day, the very last thing on my mind was the manner of propulsion, how fast it got to 60, etc.
For me, if I could have that same 600+ miles of range, have generally instant access to a charger everywhere so I didn't have to use an app or otherwise think ahead about chargers in any way, and didn't have to worry about replacing a $30K+ battery 8 years or a 100,000 miles in, I'd consider an electric Suburban to be a wash in terms of vehicle enjoyment, plus would enjoy the gas savings and the possibility that I'm helping the environment some.
I'm not knocking EVs here. I'm just saying that, for an SUV (or pickup truck), the manner of propulsion will never much matter to me in terms of my enjoyment of the vehicle.
I find all these proposed state mandates banning ICE vehicles to be total BS. Think about how long it will take to turn-over a MASSIVE installed ICE vehicle base not to mention it’s all depended on EV prices since lower income folks may not be able to afford EVs. Then you have gas stations that are magically going to convert to EV stations or risk losing their businesses?
Study conducted by the Anderson Economic Group. From Anderson's website:
AEG’s consulting and research services provide an enhanced understanding of the automotive industry marketplace, illuminating opportunities to improve performance. We are one of the industry’s premier consulting companies, having worked with clients in all three tiers, including hundreds of automotive dealerships representing all major brands across the United States. From retail network and sales performance analyses to tax incentives and economic impact studies, our strategies will drive you forward.
Gee, I wonder why someone might think Anderson put their thumb on the scale.
how is that any different from those pushing EVS as solving our world issues. Both sides..both sides.
This is somewhat old news, being an article back in February. Interesting results and sure to be controversial, as all such articles are.
Consumer Reports top 10 most satisfying cars to own, 2023 edition (by way of Jalopnik).
The original Consumer Reports article is below, but you'll need a subscription. Jalopnik doesn't list the percentage of buyers who would buy or lease it again, which is where the ranking came from. So I'll list it here:
Chevy Corvette: 94% would buy/lease it again
Porsche 911: 90%
Rivian R1T: 88%
Ford Maverick Hybrid: 88%
Hyundai Ioniq 5: 88%
Polestar 2: 88%
Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86: 88%
Kia Telluride: 87%
Toyota Rav4 Prime: 87%
Mazda MX-5 Miata: 86%
Dodge Challenger: 86%
It's probably worth noting that models people would buy again doesn't correlate well with brands people would buy again. For instance, Tesla with it's fabulous production and sales, doesn't have a model that makes an appearance on the list, but it does tie w/Cadillac on the top ten for brand satisfaction. That's kind of interesting, IMO.
Consumer Reports top 10 most satisfying cars to own, 2023 edition (by way of Jalopnik).
The original Consumer Reports article is below, but you'll need a subscription. Jalopnik doesn't list the percentage of buyers who would buy or lease it again, which is where the ranking came from. So I'll list it here:
Chevy Corvette: 94% would buy/lease it again
Porsche 911: 90%
Rivian R1T: 88%
Ford Maverick Hybrid: 88%
Hyundai Ioniq 5: 88%
Polestar 2: 88%
Subaru BRZ/Toyota 86: 88%
Kia Telluride: 87%
Toyota Rav4 Prime: 87%
Mazda MX-5 Miata: 86%
Dodge Challenger: 86%
It's probably worth noting that models people would buy again doesn't correlate well with brands people would buy again. For instance, Tesla with it's fabulous production and sales, doesn't have a model that makes an appearance on the list, but it does tie w/Cadillac on the top ten for brand satisfaction. That's kind of interesting, IMO.
I think most state's mandates will, for several reasons, get pushed back. But I don't think they're ********.
The mandates, even if not met as currently stated, encourage automakers to invest in the necessary changes and encourage consumers to "give in to the inevitable" and buy an EV. Reasonable people can argue the validity of assumptions that wholesale conversion of regular passenger vehicles from ICE to EV will result in a perceptible net benefit the environment. I think they will, but not nearly so much as evangelists state. But if the preponderance of evidence points a certain way, then moves to get society to head that way aren't exactly BS.
If state governments creating mandates knowing they're not realistic are BS, then what are the unsupportable claims of so many media outlets, funded by special interests or rabidly partisan viewership, about whales and windmills and every other overly politicized false narrative?
BS cubed? Point is, if one is BS, the other is way worse BS 'cause it's driven by the same profit motivations as existing solutions and already proven to be at least if not more problematic than those existing solutions.
It's all ultimately corporate moves to either protect or create profits. No company is doing anything out of altruistic motives no matter which side of the ICE/EV fence they sit on.
Ok, it’s math right? Not hard to figure out. Can you dispute the math or not?
Small point, perhaps, but none of the state mandates "ban ICE vehicles". They are all constructed to phase out the *sale* of *new* ICE vehicles - and are all generally in line with the manufacturers' own plans to switch production to 100% EV.
You'll still be allowed to drive your ICE vehicles on the roads in 2035, you just won't be able to buy a new one.
Good news for Ford, and the usual hater can piss right the f off with his snarkery.
The Rouge Electric Vehicle Center now utilizes equipment to measure and validate automatically exterior body fit for margin and flushness precision. It’s the first time such tools have been deployed in Ford’s North American plants. A third station was added to validate wheel alignment and headlamp aim for driver assist technology.
Training for 1,200 additional manufacturing employees will continue for three weeks. Incoming operators are shadowing experienced employees in a buddy system for rapid onboarding.
Battery pack production is also ramping up at the Rawsonville (Mich.) Components Plant and the Van Dyke (Mich.) Electric Powertrain Center is increasing production of EV power units to match the scale of F-150 Lightning assembly at the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center.
The Rouge Electric Vehicle Center now utilizes equipment to measure and validate automatically exterior body fit for margin and flushness precision. It’s the first time such tools have been deployed in Ford’s North American plants. A third station was added to validate wheel alignment and headlamp aim for driver assist technology.
Training for 1,200 additional manufacturing employees will continue for three weeks. Incoming operators are shadowing experienced employees in a buddy system for rapid onboarding.
Battery pack production is also ramping up at the Rawsonville (Mich.) Components Plant and the Van Dyke (Mich.) Electric Powertrain Center is increasing production of EV power units to match the scale of F-150 Lightning assembly at the Rouge Electric Vehicle Center.