OT: Electric vehicles

[mildone_rivals]

@mildone Speaking of Porsche...

Thanks. I'd never seen that.

For a long-time Porsche fan like me, that's a great video. As just a fan of most things automotive, I'd think most people with similar interests would find it an interesting watch.

I knew that the level of tech involved in the builds of the 911s had to be high due to how quickly they move through assembly and how consistent and precise the outcome is. The dealer who had the build allocation can provide detailed build sheets during the whole order/build/ship process, so you actually know the date your car will enter assembly and at what stage it's at in assembly. But it's fascinating to see just how much tech is involved at this point.

We toured a Ford plant in Michigan maybe 10 years ago. It was also fascinating and involved a lot of tech. I imagine most auto-makers are doing similar things, to varying degrees of precision, these days.

 

[OntheBanks]

imho, what is needed is standardized rental battery packs nationwide.

A fill-up would consist of swapping batteries... take out a battery pack, stick it in a charger.. grab a "full" battery pack and you stick it in. The monthly rental fee and a nominal swap fee at the service station would cover it all.

maybe some small vehicles work off one such pack.. larger vehicles 2 or 3.

you can still have home charging stations and plugs in public places.. but for road trips.. this would work.

"force" or "encourage" all companies to come out with a model that supports the standardized battery packs and some tax incentive for the creation of these swap stations. One company owns all the battery packs.. like a public utility.. so swapping old and worn out for new and fresh isn't even an issue.. it is worked into the monthly fee.

I just began looking into EV & PHEV's so I'm not close to being an expert. But why would you want to rent a battery pack for a month if you needed to recharge every week or two?
I know if I bought an EV or PHEV I would plug in at home every night.
So someone please explain why one would rent a battery pack. Thanks

 

[mildone_rivals]

I just began looking into EV & PHEV's so I'm not close to being an expert. But why would you want to rent a battery pack for a month if you needed to recharge every week or two?
I know if I bought an EV or PHEV I would plug in at home every night.
So someone please explain why one would rent a battery pack. Thanks

Same reason propane swaps have become more common that propane tank refilling. It's lots faster to swap a tank than refill one, which means lines are shorter.

For EVs, if one only makes relatively short trips, it's not useful. But for longer trips, it becomes very convenient. But EV batteries are *way* more expensive than propane tanks and I don't see EV owners wanting to turn in their relatively new battery for a battery of unknown age and condition. So I don't see something like that catching on in the US. I could see it catch on in China due to cultural differences.

I also think different people have different approaches to driving. When I take long trips with a specific destination in mind, I only ever want to stop when forced to for gas. I hate stopping at all for any reason and want the stop to be completed as quickly as possible. I don't even like stopping to sleep and have, in the past, driven as much as 24 hours with nothing but gas stops and a brief (i.e. 3 hour) sleep period in a rest area.

Whereas many others, maybe even most others, prefer a leisurely drive with planned stops to stretch their legs, eat meals, see sights, etc.

Obviously the later group wouldn't care about recharge times in an EV whereas people like me would find it very irritating. Despite that, I don't think I'd want to swap my new battery just to cut down on the time spent recharging. Not unless infrastructure just can't keep up with demand leading to long lines and wait times.

 

[Bleem Phuppert]

Same reason propane swaps have become more common that propane tank refilling. It's lots faster to swap a tank than refill one, which means lines are shorter.

Is it, though?

I go to the local propane vendor and get filled up right away. No lines. And I get good conversation from the business owner, who reminds me of the newspaper bodega guy in "A Few Good Men." Also cheaper.

On the other hand, every time I go to Lowes I hear "Customer needs propane" on the PA system, almost endlessly. So I'm not really sure.

 

[Scarlet16e2]

Is it, though?

I go to the local propane vendor and get filled up right away. No lines. And I get good conversation from the business owner, who reminds me of the newspaper bodega guy in "A Few Good Men." Also cheaper.

On the other hand, every time I go to Lowes I hear "Customer needs propane" on the PA system, almost endlessly. So I'm not really sure.

Yeah I think the propane tank swap is widespread because it can be made available at more locations and vendors don't need to invest in a propane filling station.

 

[mildone_rivals]

Is it, though?

I go to the local propane vendor and get filled up right away. No lines. And I get good conversation from the business owner, who reminds me of the newspaper bodega guy in "A Few Good Men." Also cheaper.

On the other hand, every time I go to Lowes I hear "Customer needs propane" on the PA system, almost endlessly. So I'm not really sure.

I guess it depends on the location or situation. My experience has differed from yours, apparently.

I used to get propane at a local filling station and while there wouldn't often be a line, or if so, only one or two people deep, it still took some time to fill. Whereas my local home depot tank exchange is usually very quickly in and out, for whatever reason there's never much of a line. I generally hit up the Home Depot during non-peak hours.

I have (well, had up until recently) a couple tanks which allowed me to fetch a new one while one was in use, giving me the luxury of picking and choosing the time of day. Alas, I'm down to only one tank at the moment since I tried tossing one through my glass back door about a year ago, damaging the tank as well as the door - long story.

 

[RUevolution36]

I guess it depends on the location or situation. My experience has differed from yours, apparently.

I used to get propane at a local filling station and while there wouldn't often be a line, or if so, only one or two people deep, it still took some time to fill. Whereas my local home depot tank exchange is usually very quickly in and out, for whatever reason there's never much of a line. I generally hit up the Home Depot during non-peak hours.

I have (well, had up until recently) a couple tanks which allowed me to fetch a new one while one was in use, giving me the luxury of picking and choosing the time of day. Alas, I'm down to only one tank at the moment since I tried tossing one through my glass back door about a year ago, damaging the tank as well as the door - long story.

did the hookers lock you out of the house and steal all your blow?

 

[mildone_rivals]

did the hookers lock you out of the house and steal all your blow?

Was a bizarre gardening accident.

Not really, but I don't want to go into details.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

You'd prefer censorship? There are instruction manuals for far worse things than defeating the all-too-easily defeated not-very-safe safety features available online. Freedom is hard. It requires people to behave responsibly. I vastly prefer freedom with all its many dangers.

The answer isn't trying to hide the lack of safety. Quite the opposite. People who report such easily defeated safety systems are actually part of the solution and should be applauded.

The real solution is getting manufacturers to create better, much less easily defeated safety systems. And these reports clearly highly the fact that manufacturers have failed to do that, so far.

They're demonstrating something illegal. Report safety flaws to the manufacturer and regulators. Inform the public as well. My complaint is with the step by step instructions.

Some idiots will figure this out on their own, but not all morons are created equal. Why give the less clever ones an instruction manual?

Should the NRA post videos giving step by step instructions for children to remove gun safety locks?

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

I just began looking into EV & PHEV's so I'm not close to being an expert. But why would you want to rent a battery pack for a month if you needed to recharge every week or two?
I know if I bought an EV or PHEV I would plug in at home every night.
So someone please explain why one would rent a battery pack. Thanks

Swaps are a terrible idea. I made a post detailing the reasons on the previous page.

And they're definitely not happening with PHEVs since the battery pack is almost insignificant. PHEVs are gas cars that carry along a tiny battery pack and 2 drive trains.

 

[fsg2_rivals]

Swaps are a terrible idea. I made a post detailing the reasons on the previous page.

And they're definitely not happening with PHEVs since the battery pack is almost insignificant. PHEVs are gas cars that carry along a tiny battery pack and 2 drive trains.

Not necessarily two drivetrains (or powertrains). Often an electric powertrain and a gas generator with no direct connection to the drive axle

 

[mildone_rivals]

They're demonstrating something illegal. Report safety flaws to the manufacturer and regulators. Inform the public as well. My complaint is with the step by step instructions.

Some idiots will figure this out on their own, but not all morons are created equal. Why give the less clever ones an instruction manual?

Should the NRA post videos giving step by step instructions for children to remove gun safety locks?

I hear what you're saying about the instructions, but do you really think it's that hard for anybody to figure out? It looks to me like it's more of a "if there's a will there's a way" thing than a "gotta have an IQ of 140+ to figure it out" thing.

Regarding the NRA/gun lock thing, read this page: https://gunsafetyrules.nra.org/. Here's the relevant quote:

Store guns so they are not accessible to unauthorized persons.

Many factors must be considered when deciding where and how to store guns. A person's particular situation will be a major part of the consideration. Dozens of gun storage devices, as well as locking devices that attach directly to the gun, are available. However, mechanical locking devices, like the mechanical safeties built into guns, can fail and should not be used as a substitute for safe gun handling and the observance of all gun-safety rules.

That's basically the NRA reporting the failure of gun safety locks, in not so many words.

Parents of young children should be using gun safes, period. And parents of older children should teach the children how to safely and responsibly operate the guns and still use gun safes until the kid is deemed mature enough to be trusted with access to the weapon(s).

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

I'm not posting for the safety comment, but the graphics are interesting to me:

 

[RUevolution36]

I'm not posting for the safety comment, but the graphics are interesting to me:

Not posting any comment...but the graphics are interesting to me...

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

Not posting any comment...but the graphics are interesting to me...

Do you work for the fuel cell industry? What's the point here?

 

[RUevolution36]

Do you work for the fuel cell industry? What's the point here?

to be fair and balanced. lol

 

[mildone_rivals]

Do you work for the fuel cell industry? What's the point here?

You might not have posted the twitter image for its comment about safety. Nonetheless, the image comment about safety wasn't invisible. Seems he was responding to that comment.

I find the images shown in the tweet to be misleadingly incomplete, particularly with respect to the EV image which is clearly missing and/or downplaying critical componentry.

Here are a couple images that seem a bit more informative and complete, and a bit less like marketing hype for a particular brand.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

For those of you who can afford it...

LAMBO COUNTACH HYBRID!!!!!!!!

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/13/22623297/lamborghini-countach-supercar-hybrid-specs-speed

 

[fsg2_rivals]

For those of you who can afford it...

LAMBO COUNTACH HYBRID!!!!!!!!

https://www.theverge.com/2021/8/13/22623297/lamborghini-countach-supercar-hybrid-specs-speed

Saw the leaked photos two minutes before flipping on the Field of Dreams game last night.

Was the late 80s all over again, baby!

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Today is Day One for production of the new Ford Maverick hybrid. Some dealers have started to receive them for salesmen training purposes and test ride vehicles. Customer deliveries scheduled for late September and October.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/boston.cbslocal.com/2021/06/16/ford-maverick-pickup-truck-hybrid/?amp

 

[Knight Shift]

https://www.app.com/story/money/bus...ntown-nj-tesla-electric-car-store/8128476002/

 

[Jtung230]

They're demonstrating something illegal. Report safety flaws to the manufacturer and regulators. Inform the public as well. My complaint is with the step by step instructions.

Some idiots will figure this out on their own, but not all morons are created equal. Why give the less clever ones an instruction manual?

Should the NRA post videos giving step by step instructions for children to remove gun safety locks?

Tesla should thank them for finding the flaws. Can’t fix it unless you know the problem.

 

[mildone_rivals]

Tesla should thank them for finding the flaws. Can’t fix it unless you know the problem.

Yep. It's not just Tesla, though. Seems that all the driver detection systems in all cars tested (which might be more than just EVs, I don't remember) were easily defeated. Not very comforting, right?

OTOH, it's only Tesla owners I've heard actually complain about the reporting on the unsafe safety systems. I'm starting to form a hypothesis about the skin-depth of Tesla owners. But I'm not gonna leap to any conclusions based on the small sample size.

No doubt Sandy Munro (whoever he is) will do an "analysis" that shows how much less of a failure the Tesla safety systems are than everybody else's failures.

 

[RUevolution36]

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...robe-into-tesla-autopilot-crashes-2021-08-16/

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

Tesla should thank them for finding the flaws. Can’t fix it unless you know the problem.

Exactly what I said.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

https://www.reuters.com/business/au...robe-into-tesla-autopilot-crashes-2021-08-16/

100 people will die on US roads today. Another 100 tomorrow, and so on.

From the #s cited in your article, Tesla's autopilot seems safer than the average human. Looks like NHTSA agreed based on their original 7 month study.

 

[fsg2_rivals]

Exactly what I said.

Well they don't pay the bills with thank yous, even if they come from Musk himself. It's not their job to find flaws and report them to manufacturer - if they're putting that testing effort in, of course they're going to publish.

This type of thing is good work by auto journos ...not even subjective. And it's less time spent taking lavish trips to "first drive" perfectly prepped vehicles with a PR dude yammering superlatives in their ear the whole time.

 

[RUevolution36]

100 people will die on US roads today. Another 100 tomorrow, and so on.

From the #s cited in your article, Tesla's autopilot seems safer than the average human. Looks like NHTSA agreed based on their original 7 month study.

you sound quite a bit like those covid deniers right now.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

My question is how unusual is the NHTSA investigation into the Tesla Autopilot? We'll see if this amounts to anything.

 

[Jtung230]

My question is how unusual is the NHTSA investigation into the Tesla Autopilot? We'll see if this amounts to anything.

About as unusual as letting Tesla get away with calling the system “autopilot”.

 

[WhichReligionIsRight]

About as unusual as letting Tesla get away with calling the system “autopilot”.

Doesn't bother me.

 

[mdk02]

My question is how unusual is the NHTSA investigation into the Tesla Autopilot? We'll see if this amounts to anything.

There was a very good interview on CNBC this morning with a former Ford representative on this. He said Phase 1 is no big deal but could take as long as a year. However, if it is determined a chip need to be replaced it would mean virtually every Tesla on the road would need to brought to a dealership and with the current supply chain problems it would be serious.

 

[mildone_rivals]

As I was out driving last Sunday, I got to wondering, do Teslas or other EVs offer opening sunroofs or convertibles or other open top variants as options? On the road, I never see any. This would kind of be a deal breaker for me in ordering an EV. I loves me some sunroofs.

I suppose range will suffer if a sunroof or convertible top is opened. And they add weight, which also negatively affects range.

But in my SUV shopping, one of my key requirements is to have a lot of open glass at the top (lots of cars, including EVs) have those, along with at least one operable sunroof. Makes me wonder if the Macan EV will offer the same sunroof option as the ICE Macans.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Here is the dealership Knightshift mentioned. Didn’t know the guy had this much money. No wonder he is running around playing Flash Gordon—

https://www.nj.com/business/2021/08...-will-be-at-the-jersey-shore-report-says.html

 

[Knight Shift]

Interesting technical stuff on the future of materials used in EVs. Well, interesting to me, at least.

https://blog.appliedmaterials.com/silicon-carbide-paving-way-wider-adoption-electric-vehicles

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

My question is how unusual is the NHTSA investigation into the Tesla Autopilot? We'll see if this amounts to anything.

This isn't the first investigation. This article discusses 1 of the cases. Driver is clearly misusing the system. He's using autopilot on a road with stop signs and traffic lights, and he admitted he wasn't watching the road. He tragically killed someone and now wants to blame Tesla.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

About as unusual as letting Tesla get away with calling the system “autopilot”.

Because that's how autopilot systems work. Just like an airplane, the pilot need to be present and attentive in case they need to take over.
Autopilot doesn't mean you can take a nap.

 

[BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap]

As I was out driving last Sunday, I got to wondering, do Teslas or other EVs offer opening sunroofs or convertibles or other open top variants as options? On the road, I never see any. This would kind of be a deal breaker for me in ordering an EV. I loves me some sunroofs.

I suppose range will suffer if a sunroof or convertible top is opened. And they add weight, which also negatively affects range.

But in my SUV shopping, one of my key requirements is to have a lot of open glass at the top (lots of cars, including EVs) have those, along with at least one operable sunroof. Makes me wonder if the Macan EV will offer the same sunroof option as the ICE Macans.

All Teslas have glass roofs.
Convertible or sunroof would negativity effect drag coefficient. Not happening with EVs.

 

[fsg2_rivals]

All Teslas have glass roofs.
Convertible or sunroof would negativity effect drag coefficient. Not happening with EVs.

I wouldn't say "not happening," since it has happened, continues to happen and will happen more once ranges and recharge rates improve.

As for "autopilot," the average person isn't an airline pilot. The term popularly means to not do the work yourself. A poor name and Tesla trying too hard to be cool and edgy and pretend it's a couple steps ahead of where it is. Again.