OT: Electric vehicles

RUevolution36

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Sep 18, 2006
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Unlike most sheep today - I think for myself. While I do believe the climate is changing I have a different view of the real cause. Just 10000 years ago Southern New York was under a mile of ice - and earlier the Pine Barrens was on the bottom of the ocean. IMO mother nature is in far far more control than we are. But you believe what you want - I wont "invalidate" all your statements simply because I disagree with one of your views.
>99% of climate scientists agree that there is human caused climate change. What are your qualifications in the subject when you "think for yourself"? Do you have any published research or active studies in this space? Or do you "feel" like you know the subject because you saw someone talking about it on YouTube or read a post on Facebook? GTFOH.
 

mdk02

Heisman
Aug 18, 2011
26,420
18,723
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>99% of climate scientists agree that there is human caused climate change. What are your qualifications in the subject when you "think for yourself"? Do you have any published research or active studies in this space? Or do you "feel" like you know the subject because you saw someone talking about it on YouTube or read a post on Facebook? GTFOH.

So many times it ends up with advocates asserting it's either 100% or 0% human caused. It might be worth considering it might be both, and the percentage of neither is de minimus.
 

RUevolution36

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Sep 18, 2006
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So many times it ends up with advocates asserting it's either 100% or 0% human caused. It might be worth considering it might be both, and the percentage of neither is de minimus.
there's no "advocates" here. there is scientific evidence that humans have caused some level of climate change. that is just stating fact at this point.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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All you Model S Plaid owners better watch your aggressive driving lest you light your brakes on fire…


Brakes can catch fire sometimes, and I doubt a ton of Tesla Model S Plaid drivers will track theirs. But the thing in the article that cracked me up was that it looks like maybe Tesla is going to charge $20K for carbon ceramic brakes.

Porsche charges only $9K for carbon ceramic brakes for a 911 GTS. Which shows how Tesla, like Apple did at one point, knows it can rape a cultish customer base in their pricing.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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Lit up the brakes on my GTI once, on some twisty in western Maryland. That was kinda cool.
I actually caught the Suburban's left front brake on fire once. Long story involving me suddenly remembering something important while going down a pretty steep hill. Driving it put the fire out. Lots of smelly smoke.
 

Bleem Phuppert

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Sep 15, 2018
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I actually caught the Suburban's left front brake on fire once. Long story involving me suddenly remembering something important while going down a pretty steep hill. Driving it put the fire out. Lots of smelly smoke.

Similar story. I got to the bottom of the road and was stopped at a light when a guy rolled up next to me and said "hey, your car's on fire." I just kinda shrugged and said "It'll go out by itself." And it did.

I suspect he told that story to a couple of people as he went on about his day.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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Similar story. I got to the bottom of the road and was stopped at a light when a guy rolled up next to me and said "hey, your car's on fire." I just kinda shrugged and said "It'll go out by itself." And it did.

I suspect he told that story to a couple of people as he went on about his day.
I would normally advise most people to NOT continue driving if they catch their brakes on fire. We understood our circumstances leading to the fire. Many people won't.

If the circumstance leading to the fire is understood, and the driver can give ample non-braking driving time to cool the brakes back down, and if the driver also approaches the next few braking events cautiously, then it's probably okay to try to keep driving and put the fire out naturally.

OTOH, if the brakes catch fire when not driving and braking particularly hard, then it's likely to be a ongoing failure in the brake system causing the brake(s) to grab and overheat, or possibly some foreign object caught in a brake pad, and in that case, stopping and exiting the car is probably wise.

I opted to not take the fire extinguisher when spec'ing my last car. It's one of two options I regret not taking, the other being cosmetic. I can probably add the fire extinguisher in, but it turns out to be a bit of a PITA involving removing the passenger seat.
 

Bleem Phuppert

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I would normally advise most people to NOT continue driving if they catch their brakes on fire. We understood our circumstances leading to the fire. Many people won't.

If the circumstance leading to the fire is understood, and the driver can give ample non-braking driving time to cool the brakes back down, and if the driver also approaches the next few braking events cautiously, then it's probably okay to try to keep driving and put the fire out naturally.

OTOH, if the brakes catch fire when not driving and braking particularly hard, then it's likely to be a ongoing failure in the brake system causing the brake(s) to grab and overheat, or possibly some foreign object caught in a brake pad, and in that case, stopping and exiting the car is probably wise.

I opted to not take the fire extinguisher when spec'ing my last car. It's one of two options I regret not taking, the other being cosmetic. I can probably add the fire extinguisher in, but it turns out to be a bit of a PITA involving removing the passenger seat.

Excellent PSA.

And people often overlook the value of fire extinguishers in cars. I've generally carried one, and have used them on no fewer than 3 occasions over the years - all on somebody else's car.
 

RUevolution36

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Sep 18, 2006
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RUevolution36

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mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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I don't like either of these materials. give me cowhide all day long.
Yeah, I like leather a lot more than the faux leather. For one thing, I'm not aware of any luxury cars that offer Alcantara (or similar) with seat ventilation.

But by all reputable accounts, good leather holds up far better than the fake suedes like Alcantara. And is easier to maintain in like-new condition.
 

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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And cows are sustainable, right? We've been sustaining them for thousands of years.
Cows are. Their farts are not, supposedly. I cannot vouch for that, personally.

I've read that human farts are good for other humans (helping us strengthen our immune systems, I believe). So why aren't cow farts good for us?

I like cows. Especially like eating them. Yum. Beef Wellington-mass is coming up soon. 'Tis the season.
 

Bleem Phuppert

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Yeah, I like leather a lot more than the faux leather. For one thing, I'm not aware of any luxury cars that offer Alcantara (or similar) with seat ventilation.

But by all reputable accounts, good leather holds up far better than the fake suedes like Alcantara. And is easier to maintain in like-new condition.

I honestly don't like the way it looks. Too much like the old "mouse fur" of days gone by.
 
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RUBlackout

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Mar 11, 2008
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musks comments are that the EV bill was based off of unions producing the cars and those companies would get subsidies. Clearly Tesla is not unionized so the Increased subsidy would not apply to them and that’s why I believe he is against this for better of competition in the EV space BUT also for his business. I wonder how LCID and RIvian feel in this subject…

just another way govt getting involved to not spur innovation IMO
 
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Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
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Zzzzzzz.. . this again? China and Tesla both benefit from the Shanghai factory. Are you in business? What exactly should Tesla do differently?
Thank you for acknowledging that it’s all about money. No more how Musk is trying to save the world BS. Musk doesn’t want government help other EV car makers because it hurts Tesla.
 
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Thank you for acknowledging that it’s all about money. No more how Musk is trying to save the world BS. Musk doesn’t want government help other EV car makers because it hurts Tesla.
Tesla's mission statement: "Accelerate the transition to sustainable energy". Money is required to do this. Congrats on figuring that out. China happens to be the largest EV market in the world, so it makes sense to have a factory there.

Gov. help hurts Tesla? No. Any subsidy from the government would benefit Tesla disproportionally more than anyone since they're making 2/3 of all EVs in the US. And, Tesla is in the best position for further, rapid growth. $16 billion in cash vs $2 billion of debt. They're better than ok financially.

Why do you think the new EV tax credit is taking so long to pass? Biden admin, legacy auto, and UAW are trying to figure how NOT to help Tesla. In reality, it doesn't matter. Tesla will continue on it's path of exponential growth, while they hold summits, give speeches at auto plants, and meet with lobbyists. Government efficiency at it's finest.

Tesla turns down more subsidies:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...t-subsidy-for-german-battery-plant-2021-11-26
 

RUevolution36

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Tesla's mission statement: "Accelerate the transition to sustainable energy". Money is required to do this. Congrats on figuring that out. China happens to be the largest EV market in the world, so it makes sense to have a factory there.

Gov. help hurts Tesla? No. Any subsidy from the government would benefit Tesla disproportionally more than anyone since they're making 2/3 of all EVs in the US. And, Tesla is in the best position for further, rapid growth. $16 billion in cash vs $2 billion of debt. They're better than ok financially.

Why do you think the new EV tax credit is taking so long to pass? Biden admin, legacy auto, and UAW are trying to figure how NOT to help Tesla. In reality, it doesn't matter. Tesla will continue on it's path of exponential growth, while they hold summits, give speeches at auto plants, and meet with lobbyists. Government efficiency at it's finest.

Tesla turns down more subsidies:
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/t...t-subsidy-for-german-battery-plant-2021-11-26
So you're openly admitting that subsidies were helpful in getting the EV market growing, of which, Tesla was the main beneficiary...but now that Tesla has a foothold and is on a path to being a sustainable business, it's ok to close the barn door behind them? this shows that you don't actually care about the growth of EV adoption...you just care about Tesla. an alternative perspective would be to say "hey, you were able to help Tesla stand up, now it would be good for the growth of a market as a whole to ensure that there is healthy competition in the market". the health and progress of the EV market should not, and cannot be solely driven by tesla. they simply can't fulfill the global need for cars.
 
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So you're openly admitting that subsidies were helpful in getting the EV market growing, of which, Tesla was the main beneficiary...but now that Tesla has a foothold and is on a path to being a sustainable business, it's ok to close the barn door behind them? this shows that you don't actually care about the growth of EV adoption...you just care about Tesla. an alternative perspective would be to say "hey, you were able to help Tesla stand up, now it would be good for the growth of a market as a whole to ensure that there is healthy competition in the market". the health and progress of the EV market should not, and cannot be solely driven by tesla. they simply can't fulfill the global need for cars.

Do you have evidence that subsidies increase EV adoption? I really don't know. They didn't seem to help GM. They've exhausted the original credit and they're currently producing zero EVs. Tesla buyers have been without a tax credit for 2 years and demand is currently at an all time high. There was no tax credit in place when Tesla first began selling vehicles. The original credit was a result of GM lobbying for it.

I'm all for accelerating EV adoption. Just not sure printing more money and giving it away is the correct solution.
 

RUevolution36

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Do you have evidence that subsidies increase EV adoption? I really don't know. They didn't seem to help GM. They've exhausted the original credit and they're currently producing zero EVs. Tesla buyers have been without a tax credit for 2 years and demand is currently at an all time high. There was no tax credit in place when Tesla first began selling vehicles. The original credit was a result of GM lobbying for it.

I'm all for accelerating EV adoption. Just not sure printing more money and giving it away is the correct solution.
Anecdotally speaking, it made a difference to the folks I know who own one. The credit made the Tesla's more price competitive with the other cars they were considering, if not price advantageous. The fact that it is electric and saves them money on fuel and maintenance was secondary to that.
 

Bleem Phuppert

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Sep 15, 2018
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Enlighten me.

Strategically, incentivizing manufacturing in LA is a much better play than manufacturing in China. The labor force is there, the transport costs are lower and the carrot can be used to encourage stability among LA governments.

I have long advocated that the most elegant solution to our southern border problem is to provide incentive for Latinos to stay at home.
 
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