I’m just telling you what Musk said in the article. I see you are now comparing EVs only again because it convenient. With limited parts, legacy auto is focused on ICE vehicles. But they are still taking EV market share away from Tesla.
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
- Start date
As a teen I drove my mom’s Ford Astra Minivan many a time when I had a group going somewhere. I can say with confidence if it went 0-62 that fast, I wouldn’t be here todayFrom the above-linked motortrend article:
"And Ford claims it'll hit 62 mph in less than two seconds"
I mean, what loving parent doesn't need to sometimes accelerate their kid-hauling minivan to 62mph on their kid's grade school street, with a sub-2s time, to make sure their kid is first in line to give teacher an apple?
Good review (ignore the typos/spelling errors) of an owner's delivery experience and 1100 mile drive home with a F150 Lightning Lariat Extended Range. Interesting because the reviewer is a Tesla owner who makes some comparisons to Tesla.
I think for true environmentalists that makes sense, but to convince the general public, the performance aspect is very important.If the point is to "save the planet" why are all these evs accelerating at insane capabilities? Shouldn't they be governed to be more economical?
My buddy burned through a new set of tires in 10k miles he was so lead footed.... Lol
Yeah but a model 3 shouldn't be at 3.5sec... I think 6 seconds would be acceptable
California crews use 4,500 gallons of water to put out Tesla fire
for those who are interested in buying American.
based on this list...is GM or Ford really more American than Honda?
You need a compelling, exciting, sexy product to win over the hearts and minds of potential customers. If your average EV was a geeky golf cart, sustainable energy transportation would have never gained traction.
Also, like for like, an electric motor will out perform a gas engine. That's just physics.
I get all that, but put a 3 on par with a mustang not a Lambo. My point here is just to question has anyone done the accounting? No doubt evs are more efficient but if everyone's zooming around at max, what's the actual overall electric consumption? Just saying the hypocrisy there exists
Not everyone's ripping through tires after 10K miles. And those that are would probably be driving like fools in a gas car.
Just like everyday ICE drivers aren't driving around at whatever unnecessarily high top speed their vehicle is capable of all day long, Tesla drivers aren't drag racing to 62 every stoplight.
Just like everyday ICE drivers aren't driving around at whatever unnecessarily high top speed their vehicle is capable of all day long, Tesla drivers aren't drag racing to 62 every stoplight.
The insta torque in evs leads to excessively fast acceleration - I agree not everyone is doing it but without doing a study , what I see here in socal has a much higher % of people ripping off the line which is really where the tear on the tires comes. Once you are at speed not a huge difference between 60mph and 70mph, but if ur hitting 3 sec at every red light, instead of a normal 8-9 that's a big deal
This is not entirely wrong, just mostly wrong.
The way that EVs will wind up being widely adopted is by states forcing it on us or by continued high gas prices. Most people across the planet go their whole lives without owning a car capable of accelerating to 60 in even a sub 5s time, let alone a sub 3s time. They aren't buying a car because it's super quick - they just want to go from point A to point B efficiently and inexpensively, if possible.
As for performance, your statement is far too generalized to be true. An electric motor can indeed out-perform an ICE. But only under constrained situations. You need to define "outperform" pretty narrowly for your statement to be true.
In cars actually built to perform their best in a test of speed and handling and endurance (i.e. performance), EVs are non-competitive with ICEs or hybrids. Formula One has hybrid gas/electric engines and is far faster over a much longer distance than Formula E (pure EV racing). NASCAR has pure ICE engines and would crush any EV in the Indy 500 race, or other similar long distance races performed at very high average speeds.
Lol you really have to hang onto every detail instead of getting the conceptual intent behind a statement.... Not every mustang is a gt500, and certainly aren't 50k price point. The 3 is supposed to be a sedan comparable to 3 series...not an m3.
Heat/friction is what wears tires. The more of it, the faster they wear. It's why bad alignment can prematurely wear tires, the treads push across the road rather than rolling, which creates way more friction and heat. Improperly inflated tires can also generate more heat leading to greater tire wear.
If driving really fast, cornering and braking will heat up and thus wear tires more quickly than straight-line acceleration or constant straight-line speeds. I mean, unless one is lighting up the tires during acceleration (which is dumb because it's slow unless one is engaged in warming the tires prior to a race in which case tire wear isn't a concern).
Straight line speed does play a role, however. The faster the car is going, the more friction and heat is generated and the faster the tires wear. Might not be super obvious at speeds between 60 and 70. But drive at 150 for a while and the tires will wear very quickly, greatly reducing the tread life of the tires.
Interesting. This new product came to my attention in an e-mail I receive from a firefighting equipment supply vendor, which is used to extinguish all types of vehicle fires, including EV vehicle fires:
Proving my point actually. Excessively fast Acceleration and hard braking are the easiest ways for normal drivers to increase tire wear through driving. Yes speeds and cornering play a role to your point, but if you are driving on local roads and staying with the lines, taking turns at 70 vs 60 or 65 won't be where you kill your tires. Going stop light to stop light with 3 sec acceleration will
Firefighters learn about the fire triangle (some use the tetrahedron) in the fire academy, which includes fuel, oxygen (via air) and heat. With the tetrahedron, the fourth part is the exothermic chain reaction sustains the fire and allows it to continue until or unless at least one of the triangle elements is eliminated. Putting water on a metal fire results in the fire getting hotter or exploding when water is applied. So this principle for EV battery fires is basically the same principle as putting a lid on a frying pan fire-cutting off the oxygen supply.
All depends on the corners and the speeds.
There's a section of Route 31, a handful of miles north of the Flemington circle, where it's two lanes and winds through some pretty tight sweepers that, in the right car, can be taken pretty fast (over 100mph), putting a ton of energy through the tires. Not too many people take those turns at even 60-70 and if they do, it's putting lots of energy through the tires. Pretty sure it's quite a bit more than the load from a 3s 0-60 run.
I love those curves, incidentally.
The state and local police patrol that section pretty heavily, should anybody be considering driving it at extralegal speeds. Naturally, I always adhere closely to all posted speed limits and advise others to do the same.
My point is if you are on a road designed for 65 and you drive "hard" - let's call it 15 over, you are wearing your tires faster but it's not that extreme. The stop light to stop light is realistically the most easy way to effect tire life for most drivers. If a normal acceleration is 10 seconds and lead foots go 5 that's a big deal. That's also a less extreme scenario than going 100 in 65 zone with curves.
I regularly see Tesla's beating sports cars off the line and will witness it 6-7 times from stop to stop on stretches of road from the same car... It's very common. Everyone gets that tesla and they like getting their rears pushed into the seats.
You want to take cars on track and squeel the tires in turns - yes you kill the wear rates. That's not day to day driving though. That's all I'm pointing out.
There's gonna be a ton of hubbies out there questioning their wives when the tires are bald in half the expected life span.
Know this stretch well, there was a light rain last weekend which took the joy out of going through there in my model 3
747 miles on a charge. Not bad.
Just remember what the 70s gas crisis brought about.. a billion metric sh*t-ton of Japanese econo-boxes replacing both nicer American cars as well as the American base models on peoples driveways. Sure, there were some sexy Japanese models like the Datsun Z's.. but for every one of them, there were 1000 of the void-of-style boxes.
The worse the economy gets, the more opportunity there will be for the worst-looking and cheapest-to-operate vehicles to sell.
My ID4 made it to the US. Only took 12 months. Email says it needs another 2 weeks for software update. I didn’t like the part where they said dealers set the price, not MSRP. Funny thing is that I ordered the car to take advantage of the NJ EV rebate 2021. Thought I missed it but looks like I’ll catch the 2022 rebate.
Do consider that those devoid of style econo japanese cars did evolve into some sleek designed high performance, yet significantly more effecient then their predecessors, type vehicles in the decades which followed.
And if you look at the biggest duds in recent decades in terms of performance and style it's the american auto's.
So this new gas spike, and the efficiency quest which will respond to it, could be a reset for the american auto's. TSLA clearly has an early lead but can Ford and GM get out of ahead of Toyota and Honda.
Think the below is closed-minded. There is plenty of American style and performance out there to be had. In fact, such a statement signals to me that YOU are trying to spread some propaganda for some reason. Back your statement up if you can. Feel free to cherry-pick.
check this out for some model to model comparisons
check this out for some model to model comparisons
Seems to me that there is no right or wrong answer when it comes to one’s preferences in motor vehicles. Not really a matter of open mindedness because it’s all about personal choices. We like what we like.
He can think a particular car is a dud and another person might think it’s the best thing since sliced bread. Having lots of variety is great.
Agree there's no right or wrong but he did not qualify his opinion at all saying: "And if you look at the biggest duds in recent decades in terms of performance and style it's the american auto's."
There was no room for doubt there and he did not make it one of personal choice and that is what I responded to. You could have taken your response and applied it to his comment.
Even though I responded to your post, I was responding to the board in general, not just you.
He made a strongly stated opinion. But since he referred to style, which is always 100% subjective, it was clearly just his opinion. To my way of thinking, unless we're using "dud" to refer to an explosive device, it is probably being used as part of a statement of opinion. Even a cars automotive performance cannot really be factually a dud unless it couldn't make it to 60mph or around a turn or some other total failure like that (analogous to a bomb that fails to go off).
So, given his statement seemed entirely subjective, it didn't, IMO, require any qualification as such. Unless he was referring to financial performance as in (the car never became profitable so it was a dud). He would have to clarify if he meant automotive performance of financial performance.
Anyway, perhaps it would further the discussion to ask him to list those American cars, from recent decades, he thinks were duds. And you can listed those cars from outside the US that you think were bigger duds. That'd be a good debate.
Look out Tesla, Hyundai and Kia EVs are coming for a large share of EV sales.
The hottest electric cars in the US market aren’t coming from Tesla factories. All eyes are on Hyundai’s Ioniq 5 and the Kia EV6.
The hottest electric cars in the US market aren’t coming from Tesla factories. All eyes are on Hyundai’s Ioniq 5 and the Kia EV6.
Tesla got a big head start and enjoyed a period of almost no competition. That period is coming to a close and, as supply chain issues resolve, existing and new automakers alike are going to create a ton of competition all up and down the price-range.
This has always been completely obvious to almost everybody. Everybody except the hardcore Teslerati who bristle at the merest suggestion of future strong competition.
Just another hit piece by Bloomberg - last week it was VW to overtake Tesla by 2024 - An estimate that even VW admitted was not possible. Let's face it - Once Musk announced he is more center politically it was obvious what was going to happen in the press.
LOL, muscle cars do not have quick acceleration. Jay Leon’s garage showed a AWD v6 Nissan Altima beat a muscle car 0-60.
This has been going on for years. For one, Tesla and Musk are polarizing and generate clicks. Two, Tesla doesn't advertise. See below: