The thing you have to remember is that when Tesla was having financial issues, we were in a zero-interest environment. There was also no real competition for tesla in the EV market. Investors were willing to be patient. This was really one of the saving graces for tesla. This is a completely different environment for these EV companies. Having a good product may not be enough. They will need a CEO who can really execute. In fact, Tesla may also benefit from having a CEO like Tim Cook who can extract a lot of value from a product.
OT: Electric vehicles
- Thread starter BellyFullOfWhiteDogCrap
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Even better. it was late at night when I posted. The last thing I am worried about is my math skills.
what you have to realize is that Tesla de-risk all these investments by showing there is a light at the end of the tunnel. Rivian will continue to have access to capital markets.
Or if not them, then someone else. Automotive is a space in which there almost certainly will always be plenty of thriving competition.
This is not a winner take all situation. There will be many companies that will succeed. Tesla should be one of them unless Musk completely ruins it with this far right nonsense. Rivian and Lucid make really good products, but will they survive? That is the big question. With higher interest rates, increasing competition, no access to subsidies from the infrastructure bill, they will really need to execute. I’ll be watching closely. Legacy companies like ford, GM, Hyundai, etc may do well in the low end market, but that isn’t a high profit business especially for electric cars where the cost for making a car is high. That is where Tesla lowering their base model 3 down to $35,500 might really hurt these guys.
just to make it clear… I am talking about Tesla the company not the stock.
Hertz said the maintenance costs on EV are 50 to 60% of ICE vehicles
That is significant
It is one reason I would like to purchase an EV and it will be a driver of rental agencies moving towards them also
EVs still don’t make economic sense for a lot of people. It’s definitely more of a preference. I read an article that says you go in the green after 5+ years assuming like 12k miles per year. The EV tax credit and no sales tax (NJ) certainly help narrow the gap.
Good point on rental agencies. Also, the first company that brings a modest priced EV to the masses will be a huge winner (which may be TSLA with their discount).
TSLA with their discount is not the answer to an affordable EV. That’s just to bring their product inline with the competition. Unfortunately, affordable EV doesn’t exist yet.
Likely true about the "affordable EV" to the masses, but it won't come from an existing ICE manufacturer. I saw an article about the crazy amount of debt the big boys have.....Ford, GM, VW, Mercedes, Honda, Toyota. There is no way in holy hell any of them can build something for the masses without driving the company into bankruptcy.
Tesla is having a hard time rolling out new products. Just look at the Cybertruck. It’s years behind schedule and counting.
EVs will not be a practical choice for the masses until they figure out: a) rapid charging, b) improving our electrical grid to handle all the extra power and c) what the hell to do with all those toxic batteries
"C" is especially troubling for the environmental crowd. Mining for the batteries is conducted with slave labor and we're creating a bunch of toxic waste
But go on feeling good about yourselves
A standard range Model 3 is now less than $40k. The pool of potential customers just got much deeper, especially when you factor in the cost of ownership. Tesla doesn't need to go lower any time soon, but a lower cost, smaller Tesla is on the way....
Tesla Announces Date for 2023 Investor Day
BUSINESS WIREJan 2, 2023
We plan to host Tesla's 2023 Investor Day on March 1, 2023. The event will be live streamed from our Gigafactory Texas, with the option for some of our institutional and retail investors to attend in person (details to follow). Our investors will be able to see our most advanced production line as well as discuss long term expansion plans, generation 3 platform, capital allocation and other subjects with our leadership team.
Goal of the gen 3 platform is to produce a vehicle that halves the production costs of a Model 3 or Y. A lofty goal, but Tesla has already demonstrated they can produce a Model Y for less than a Model 3 due to advanced manufacturing. Where this vehicle is manufactured and first released/available is the question. My $ is on China first, then Europe, then US.
*This post has been brought to you by Exxon -Mobil, Shell Oil and the good people at Saudi Aramco*
Useful idiot
In political jargon, a useful idiot is a term currently used to reference a person perceived as propagandizing for a cause—particularly a bad cause originating from a devious, ruthless source—without fully comprehending the cause's goals, and who is cynically being used by the cause's leaders.
Just did a rental car search in Phoenix for Hertz. They offer 2 Teslas (model 3 and a Y) and a Polestar.
Avis only offers model 3 Tesla.
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I think you did that on purpose with a bit of good natured, self-aware, self-deprecating humor. In which case, great post. One of my favorites of the year, so far.
Hertz probably feels good about this
You can call me all the names you'd like. I'm no shill and I'm not against EVs, just believe this whole thing hasn't been well-thought out
On a side note, my wife was in the rental car industry for almost 20 years. I may have some insight on the topic
Branching out from hookers and blow to strip clubs now?
Your "toxic batteries" point suggests otherwise.
Using the average cost of gasoline in NJ and my cost per kWh of electricity, I've saved $1,061 over the past 12 months.
Maintenance costs over 3 years of ownership < $100 for cabin air filter, washer fluid and wipers.
My wife is an exercise physiologist that doesn’t make me any more of an expert on how exercise can rehabilitate issues women face with bladder control or abdominal issues from pregnancy . Sure I can discuss minor common issues of exercise but the in-depth issues I leave to her.
The Hertz experience really makes the case that EV’s are coming to the industry and coming quickly
I believe we're going to have a problem when these batteries get old, no? We have no way to recycle them or dispose of them properly, if I'm wrong please let me know
And the labor to obtain thw raw materials for these batteries is a whole other story. Not good!
For people like me maintenance costs would be a driving force to get an EV
Did you check National? Last I saw they were bringing a bunch of Volvo EVs online.
That's the main reason I bought mine. I drive a lot and couldn't stay within the mileage of any lease so this was my next best alternative to hopefully put a lot of miles on a car and not have much upkeep. According to the app, I saved an estimated $2302 on gas last year which is icing on the cake.
As for recycling
>A new EV battery recycling plant in Alabama from Li-Cycle can process up to 10,000 tonnes, enough for about 20,000 EVs per year, helping the US venture toward a zero-emission economy.<
https://electrek.co/2022/10/14/us-increases-ev-battery-recycling-capacity-with-new-al-facility/
labor problems relating to obtain the materials might be bad, but that can be taken care of if countries band together to make safety part of the job.
In 3rd world countries obtaining EV battery material is not the only labor that has health put at risk by those employing workers .
So if you want to boycott EV vehicles because of how workers are at risk, make sure you boycott other products that treat the workers in that industry unfairly.
If someone really wants to go down the boycott road, there are a lot of things they will have to give up. Starting with your smartphone and sneakers.
Hertz will not keep them long enough to require a battery swap.
Everybody here in the same boat? Add that cost to "maintainence" and redo your math. $25-40k depending on vehicle.
If everybody is gonna dump them before the swap, who's buying those? Good luck selling in the resale market.
Until there is a game changing breakthrough in battery tech. EVs are mostly an expensive novelty for virtue signalers and show offs.
I did not, but Alamo (I think they are related, but it has gotten so confusing) came up empty. Just checked, and nothing on EVs. This was only at Phoenix Sky Harbor airport. That said, maybe we will consider renting a Tesla through Hertz on a future trip. If this is something that interests you (probably not, if you are going to Grand Canyon), Tesla has a huge bank of chargers in the Village of Oak Creek (Sedona). Hertz passes through charging to the customer:
Hertz now offers 3 flexible charging options to our EV renting customers:
- Charge Purchase Option (CPO)
- EV Battery Recharge
- Self-Charge
There are thousands of dollars of precious metals already in a purified, refined state in an EV battery pack. You don't just throw them away. Battery recycling is already underway with a >95% recovery rate. Look up Redwood Materials for a good example. They're not the only outfit doing this.
I'm guessing your referring to Cobalt mining in the DRC. Not all mines in the DRC use child labor. Cobalt is sourced from other countries. Cobalt is not in every EV battery pack. If you're worried about Cobalt, don't buy an EV containing it. The battery chemistries of each EV can be easily looked up.
Are you also concerned about where the cobalt in your cell phone came from?
The FUDsters are coming out of the woodwork today!!
First the toxic batteries and child labor argument, now the imaginary, inevitable battery swap..... with made up, inflated costs.
Sorry, to disappoint, but EV batteries will last for hundreds of thousands of miles.
What's next? EVs are a fire risk?
Pesky facts. Where is the skinny brother today? As a person who deals with new technologies on a daily basis, the possibilities of what to do with batteries is really limitless and will continue to expand with new ideas and inventions.
“Almost all of the [electric car] batteries we’ve ever made are still in cars,” said Nissan executive Nic Thomas.
“And we’ve been selling electric cars for 12 years,” he added.
Most manufacturers offer battery warranties of seven or eight years or around 100,000 miles of driving, but there’s an industry expectation that EV batteries will last longer than that; they should outlive the cars themselves.
Nissan has collected only a relatively small number of Leaf batteries—from crashed vehicles or after warranty issues—and supplied some to provide backup power to the Johan Cruijff Arena in Amsterdam, home to Ajax Football Club.
Other Leaf batteries will be dismantled and reused in consumer-level portable energy storage packs “when we’ve got some batteries to go into them,” said Thomas.