OT: Electric vehicles

fsg2_rivals

Heisman
Apr 3, 2018
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Is range due to bigger battery packs? That’s not better. How fast are the charging now? New features for EV or for autos. There are more options but are they better?

Depends in the vehicle.

Polestar just announced a new prototype with 100 miles/5 minute charging. Company it partnered with plans to begin production in a year or two.

Stories like that every day. Not all will pan out, but EVs are absolutely improving. To say otherwise makes no sense at all.
 

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
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Depends in the vehicle.

Polestar just announced a new prototype with 100 miles/5 minute charging. Company it partnered with plans to begin production in a year or two.

Stories like that every day. Not all will pan out, but EVs are absolutely improving. To say otherwise makes no sense at all.
I don’t see it. Concept of making better, yes. Actually making it better, no. The main breakthrough needs to be battery and battery management software. Charging time has improved but hit a wall. I will read about Polestar to see how they plan to make that happen. Would be great if true.

ETA read the article. It’s a target but not real yet.
 

RU05

All-American
Jun 25, 2015
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It’s only a small % of auto market. Demand has hit a wall. Need to get ICE owners to switch.
EV sales were up 50% yoy in the 3rd qtr. Now 2nd qtr was around 300K which was also up 30% yoy. So Is 300K per qtr the wall? Maybe. I tend to think this is more a pull fwd due to rapid expansion, then it is demand hitting a wall.

But I think the F-150, Silverado, Blazer and other pickup/SUV will bring it to new levels.
 

fsg2_rivals

Heisman
Apr 3, 2018
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I don’t see it. Concept of making better, yes. Actually making it better, no. The main breakthrough needs to be battery and battery management software. Charging time has improved but hit a wall. I will read about Polestar to see how they plan to make that happen. Would be great if true.

ETA read the article. It’s a target but not real yet.

When did charging time hit a wall? The fastest charging vehicles came out last year.

Another thing this past week: first 500-KW charger. And a company working on no-rare earth magnets teamed with GM.
 
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RUTGERS95

Heisman
Sep 28, 2005
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When did charging time hit a wall? The fastest charging vehicles came out last year.

Another thing this past week: first 500-KW charger. And a company working on no-rare earth magnets teamed with GM.
tell me more about this no rare earth magnets bit as that is interesting
 

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
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When did charging time hit a wall? The fastest charging vehicles came out last year.

Another thing this past week: first 500-KW charger. And a company working on no-rare earth magnets teamed with GM.
Which car? I se the 350kw. Chargers, but not aware there are faster ones.
 

fsg2_rivals

Heisman
Apr 3, 2018
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tell me more about this no rare earth magnets bit as that is interesting

Here's the co:


A spinoff of our conference mates U of Minn. The Iron nitride could be developed locally and is supposedly stronger magnetically than neodymium so motors could be smaller, lighter with same power.

Sounds a little too good to be true but been attracting major investors to scale up and test. GM, Volvo and I think one other major name-brand auto company have invested. Announced collab with GM last week.

Beyond that, a number of companies working on new AC coil motors without magnets. Renault, ZF and Mahle are three I've seen. BMW, too, I believe.
 

RUTGERS95

Heisman
Sep 28, 2005
29,088
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Here's the co:


A spinoff of our conference mates U of Minn. The Iron nitride could be developed locally and is supposedly stronger magnetically than neodymium so motors could be smaller, lighter with same power.

Sounds a little too good to be true but been attracting major investors to scale up and test. GM, Volvo and I think one other major name-brand auto company have invested. Announced collab with GM last week.

Beyond that, a number of companies working on new AC coil motors without magnets. Renault, ZF and Mahle are three I've seen. BMW, too, I believe.
thanks

THIS is the type of innovation that gets' one excited. very interesting
 

Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
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Maybe this was posted earlier in thread, but timely now that cooler weather is upon us. And why does the EPA inflate Tesla's range? CR found that a Model Y lost 32.1% of summer range while the Mach-E, without a heat pump, lost 31.6%. And that Tesla's EPA range was fiction. And that a Model Y long range got the same range as the Mach-E. Interesting consider the Model Y has a heat pump and the Mach-E has resistive heating.




 

imoapie

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Sep 12, 2006
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Maybe this was posted earlier in thread, but timely now that cooler weather is upon us. And why does the EPA inflate Tesla's range? CR found that a Model Y lost 32.1% of summer range while the Mach-E, without a heat pump, lost 31.6%. And that Tesla's EPA range was fiction. And that a Model Y long range got the same range as the Mach-E. Interesting consider the Model Y has a heat pump and the Mach-E has resistive heating.




What is your experience in the Lightning cold vs warm?
 

Knight Shift

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May 19, 2011
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What is your experience in the Lightning cold vs warm?
I need to do some more drives to refresh my memory of my experience. I drive a consistent route and speed on the Parkway 3 days per week. Will report back. It's definitely less, and I'm guessing about 20% penalty, but perhaps as high as 30%. I think it depends on how cold it is. The other thing I need to start doing is pre-conditioning before I drive, which warms up the climate system in the car and pre-conditions the batteries for the drive.
 

Knight Shift

Heisman
May 19, 2011
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15-20% decrease for me. I don’t plug in every night and I park it outside. My range anxiety increases by 50% in the winter.
A guy named Bob told me that if you put Extenze in the frunk, your range anxiety goes away in the winter. Minimizes range shrinkage anxiety from the cold.

 
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Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
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A guy named Bob told me that if you put Extenze in the frunk, your range anxiety goes away in the winter. Minimizes range shrinkage anxiety from the cold.

Honestly, range anxiety is only on longer drives (round trip 125 miles). In addition to the cold, you lose a lot of range cruising at 75-80 mph. I can’t do 70 mph on the hwy.

ETA: here is the math. 210 miles range at 70 mph. 20% reduction for cold. = 168 miles. 15% reduction at 80 mph = 142 miles.
 
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Knight Shift

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May 19, 2011
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Honestly, range anxiety is only on longer drives (round trip 125 miles). In addition to the cold, you lose a lot of range cruising at 75-80 mph. I can’t do 70 mph on the hwy.
Took my Lightning to Newark airport for a short business trip this week. Took a redeye home, and was pushing 90 mph most of the way watching my range meter go like this:



My wife was listening to a podcast that said people with Lightnings should sell now and buy them back in 6-9 months because the resale is going to plummet. IDK- I like mine, and I accept the range so-called "issues," which don't really affect me because I use mine for daily driving at most 50 miles per day and then charge it back up in the garage. I don't miss going to the gas station. When refilling the rental car in California, regular unleaded gasoline was $5.25/gallon. That's crazy.
 

RC1991

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Jul 31, 2003
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We just jumped into the EV game and traded our Audi Q7 for a Q8 e-tron. Haven’t taken any long trips yet but do plan to take it up to Whistler, BC in January so we’ll get a good idea of cold weather range, though it probably won’t be below freezing until we actually get to the mountain. There is a destination charger where we’re staying and of course high speed charging along the way. We installed a home charger that is pretty fast. So far we really like it. Of course if we have range anxiety I do have an F-350 diesel with a 48 gallon tank for really long trips or towing our trailer.
 
Dec 4, 2010
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Maybe this was posted earlier in thread, but timely now that cooler weather is upon us. And why does the EPA inflate Tesla's range? CR found that a Model Y lost 32.1% of summer range while the Mach-E, without a heat pump, lost 31.6%. And that Tesla's EPA range was fiction. And that a Model Y long range got the same range as the Mach-E. Interesting consider the Model Y has a heat pump and the Mach-E has resistive heating.




I have a model 3 with resistive heat and never experienced range loss to that extreme in summer or winter.

Model Y is lighter, has a lower coefficient of drag, and a heat pump. Not sure how you get around the physics. Consumer Reports is funded by the Ford Foundation, so that might have something to do with their "reporting".
 
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Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
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Such an informative article.
Not 1 word about higher interest rates and car payments, or Tesla's decade old mission statement to gradually lower prices. And of course, "the competition is coming". From? Most Tesla killers have been acquitted of all charges by now.
the price cuts haven’t been gradual. They are also cutting prices at a time when the demand is soft. The main mission statement is to sell cars. Tesla is sure acting more like a car company than a tech company.
 
Dec 4, 2010
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the price cuts haven’t been gradual. They are also cutting prices at a time when the demand is soft. The main mission statement is to sell cars. Tesla is sure acting more like a car company than a tech company.
Cuts were a mixed bag depending on region, vehicle, and trim.
Demand has softened because of macro and rates.
That's not the mission statement.

You're buddy Jim Chanos just shut down his fund after a decade of shorting Tesla. Lost over $5 billion...ouch. He thought Tesla was just a car company too. How does one become a millionaire? Start out as a billionaire and short Tesla stock.
 
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Jul 24, 2001
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Let me ask a dumb question. Is there any talk of Tesla updating the look of their cars? To me, the Model 3 and Model 3 are getting stale and been around for years.
 

RU05

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Cuts were a mixed bag depending on region, vehicle, and trim.
Demand has softened because of macro and rates.
That's not the mission statement.

You're buddy Jim Chanos just shut down his fund after a decade of shorting Tesla. Lost over $5 billion...ouch. He thought Tesla was just a car company too. How does one become a millionaire? Start out as a billionaire and short Tesla stock.
The last couple years there were definitely some good short trades to be had.

Down 40ish % off its highs of 2 years.
 
Dec 4, 2010
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Let me ask a dumb question. Is there any talk of Tesla updating the look of their cars? To me, the Model 3 and Model 3 are getting stale and been around for years.
Made in Shanghai Model 3 had a refresh during Q3. That version is now in China, Europe, and ROW.
Fremont (USA) Model 3 is still old version. Word on the street is Q1 2024 for refreshed.

I wouldn't expect a refresh of Model Y any time soon.
 
Dec 4, 2010
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The last couple years there were definitely some good short trades to be had.

Down 40ish % off its highs of 2 years.
Maybe, but I guess it didn't help out poor Jim. Hindsight is fun. Imagine if Chanos took his 2016 $6 billion investment, and instead of trashing and smearing everything Tesla and Elon to artificially lower the stock, he took a long position? Not only did Jim lose $5.5 billion, he missed out on $100 billion.
 

Jtung230

Heisman
Jun 30, 2005
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Cuts were a mixed bag depending on region, vehicle, and trim.
Demand has softened because of macro and rates.
That's not the mission statement.

You're buddy Jim Chanos just shut down his fund after a decade of shorting Tesla. Lost over $5 billion...ouch. He thought Tesla was just a car company too. How does one become a millionaire? Start out as a billionaire and short Tesla stock.
Think he was almost right. I mean Musk said they almost had to file bankruptcy. Did help Musk made up “funding secured” to shore up stock price. I don’t feel sorry for billionaires that turned into millionaires.
 

CERU00

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Feb 10, 2005
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It's more complex because it must contain all the various components for both propulsion approaches, right? More parts means more that can break, more that must be wired up correctly, more that must be operated via software, etc.

Infrastructure has to improve for sure as that will help with EV adoption by those whose living situations aren't conducive to at-home charging. But also, EVs are a relatively young technology, so I'm pretty sure they'll improve in lots of ways. Aero improvements, tire improvements, efficiency improvements, materials improvements, battery improvements, etc.
Actually, EVs aren't a very young technology. The first commercial EV was available in the late 19th century. There were hundreds of EV manufacturers in the early 20th century. Battery technology just couldn't keep up with the advances in ice vehicles...
EV infrastructure in combination with battery range has a very long way to go before the majority will make a 100% switchover.
 
Oct 19, 2010
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I have a model 3 with resistive heat and never experienced range loss to that extreme in summer or winter.

Model Y is lighter, has a lower coefficient of drag, and a heat pump. Not sure how you get around the physics. Consumer Reports is funded by the Ford Foundation, so that might have something to do with their "reporting".

The newer heat pumps make the cold weather less of an issue.