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OT: Electric vehicles

M

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine said:
You sure waste a lot of time mindlessly bloviating to yourself about me. Weird. Maybe your time would be better spent providing some proof to your dopey opinions if you wanted to actually prove some point. Just a thought.
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Your posts provide all the necessary proof. And I'm just trying to help you escape the political-obsession prison you've been stuck in for so long. Seems a worthwhile use of my time if there's any chance. Save a life and all.

Or are you saying that there's absolutely no hope of you ever escaping that prison?
 
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
Jan 12, 2015
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​

RU-05 said:
Take this for what it's worth, but this is direct from the white house.


This is kind of interesting, depending on how accurate the statement is:

Just three years ago, there was almost no U.S.-based production of fast chargers, but since President Biden took office, at least 40 U.S.-based EV charger factories have been announced or opened.

So part of the reason this roll out is so slow is, we first needed to build the factories that build the chargers.
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Biden also just said he inherited 9.1% inflation so, yeh...let's move on...
 
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
Jan 12, 2015
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​

mildone said:
Your posts provide all the necessary proof. And I'm just trying to help you escape the political-obsession prison you've been stuck in for so long. Seems a worthwhile use of my time if there's any chance. Save a life and all.

Or are you saying that there's absolutely no hope of you ever escaping that prison?
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If that's how you cope with your mindless obsession with me---get professional help.
 
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RU05

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Jun 25, 2015
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine said:

​


Well then let's get some numbers for that, otherwise we're just spit-balling about concepts here. As for the EV infrastructure buildout, $7.5Bn is a small fraction of what sounds like at least $150Bn needed according to a 2022 McKinsey analysis, and I'm certain that is underestimated. What is the plan?

Building the electric-vehicle charging infrastructure America needs​

In response, the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law (BIL) provides $7.5 billion to develop the country’s EV-charging infrastructure. The goal is to install 500,000 public chargers—publicly accessible charging stations compatible with all vehicles and technologies—nationwide by 2030. However, even the addition of half a million public chargers could be far from enough. In a scenario in which half of all vehicles sold are zero-emission vehicles (ZEVs) by 2030—in line with federal targets—we estimate that America would require 1.2 million public EV chargers and 28 million private EV chargers by that year.2 All told, the country would need almost 20 times more chargers than it has now.
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Well I don't think we expect or want the gov't to fund the entirety of the cost right?

Also from the White House link I posted above.

The Administration’s historic investments in EV technologies are also spurring private companies to invest alongside the federal government in EV charging. More than $25 billion of investment in the U.S. EV charging network has been announced to date, including more than $10 billion from the private sector.

So could or should the US be spending more on charging? Sure, and I bet it will. But as I posted above part of the issue here is laying the ground work for something for which there was no blueprint.
 
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
Jan 12, 2015
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​

RU-05 said:
Well I don't think we expect or want the gov't to fund the entirety of the cost right?

Also from the White House link I posted above.

The Administration’s historic investments in EV technologies are also spurring private companies to invest alongside the federal government in EV charging. More than $25 billion of investment in the U.S. EV charging network has been announced to date, including more than $10 billion from the private sector.

So could or should the US be spending more on charging? Sure, and I bet it will. But as I posted above part of the issue here is laying the ground work for something for which there was no blueprint.
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And that's because of the government mandates or the tax subsidy driving demand?
 
M

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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RU-05 said:
Take this for what it's worth, but this is direct from the white house.


This is kind of interesting, depending on how accurate the statement is:

Just three years ago, there was almost no U.S.-based production of fast chargers, but since President Biden took office, at least 40 U.S.-based EV charger factories have been announced or opened.

So part of the reason this roll out is so slow is, we first needed to build the factories that build the chargers.
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I get that the tax breaks and mandates are aimed more at EV manufacturers than consumers, and were necessary to stimulate initial manufacturer investment. But are consumer EV tax breaks really needed anymore? Hard to say, but I'm somewhat skeptical.

I remain of the opinion that the best way to induce people to buy EVs is to more rapidly build out charging infrastructure (including whatever energy grid improvements are or become necessary). IMO, that will do more to incentivize people to purchase an EV than either tax breaks or mandates (mandates being heavy-handed and politically problematic).

And is the US government doing enough to incentivize domestic battery technology development. Seems like increasing range and longevity while decreasing charging time and prices will also help with EV sales by driving down the cost of of EVs for consumers without requiring tax incentives.

Just like maintaining a strategic oil reserve, and building out renewable energy production, and building out domestic chip manufacturing, it sure seems like having a strong battery tech industry is a national security imperative.
 
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RU05

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mildone said:
I get that the tax breaks and mandates are aimed more at EV manufacturers than consumers, and were necessary to stimulate initial manufacturer investment. But are consumer EV tax breaks really needed anymore? Hard to say, but I'm somewhat skeptical.

I remain of the opinion that the best way to induce people to buy EVs is to more rapidly build out charging infrastructure (including whatever energy grid improvements are or become necessary). IMO, that will do more to incentivize people to purchase an EV than either tax breaks or mandates (mandates being heavy-handed and politically problematic).

And is the US government doing enough to incentivize domestic battery technology development. Seems like increasing range and longevity while decreasing charging time and prices will also help with EV sales by driving down the cost of of EVs for consumers without requiring tax incentives.

Just like maintaining a strategic oil reserve, and building out renewable energy production, and building out domestic chip manufacturing, it sure seems like having a strong battery tech industry is a national security imperative.
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Maybe it is, but a)they are doing that, it's just a slow process and b)rebates are fast and easy.

End of the day, there are significantly more EV's on the road, with more coming everyday, and I think that will encourage private investment into the charging infrastructure.
 
M

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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RU-05 said:
Maybe it is, but a)they are doing that, it's just a slow process and b)rebates are fast and easy.

End of the day, there are significantly more EV's on the road, with more coming everyday, and I think that will encourage private investment into the charging infrastructure.
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I hope you’re right. If the infrastructure thing doesn’t happen fast enough, seems likely to me that there will be some consumer pushback against EVs.

Contradicting that, I just got back from taking a 20 minute drive to charge my batteries and it seemed like every third car I saw was a Tesla Model Y or 3. They were everywhere, many in clusters. So many it was surreal. I’m wondering if there was some kind of Tesla event in the Edison/Iselin/Woodbridge area.
 
R

RU05

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mildone said:
I hope you’re right. If the infrastructure thing doesn’t happen fast enough, seems likely to me that there will be some consumer pushback against EVs.

Contradicting that, I just got back from taking a 20 minute drive to charge my batteries and it seemed like every third car I saw was a Tesla Model Y or 3. They were everywhere, many in clusters. So many it was surreal. I’m wondering if there was some kind of Tesla event in the Edison/Iselin/Woodbridge area.
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Isn't there already some push back? And that's a good thing right. Push back is basically demand for a better charging infrastructure. Supply will meet that demand.
 
M

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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RU-05 said:
Isn't there already some push back? And that's a good thing right. Push back is basically demand for a better charging infrastructure. Supply will meet that demand.
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I think there's a slowing, yes. I don't know if it's pushback or just the natural effect of exhausting the market of early-adopter types.

I expect slow downs when:
  1. All early-adopters have their EVs (might be what's happening now),
  2. People with at-home charging capability all have their EVs,
  3. The ratio of EVs to public chargers creates hours-long waits for an available charger,
  4. The only people without an EV are those opposed to them because of ideological alignment,
  5. The cost of new batteries for older EVs sinks in with consumers (might not manifest as a slowdown),
  6. The development/evolution of a better propulsion technology.
To me, 3, and 5 are the only real pushback events. 6 is an inevitable technological event - horse drawn carriages didn't experience pushback so much as replacement.

The others strike me as natural market evolution events. I guess 4 isn't natural, not really sure what to call it.
 
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Knight Shift

Knight Shift

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May 19, 2011
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RU-05 said:

Very Interesting article.


Jim McDonnell, director of engineering at the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, which is assisting states in administering the federal charger funding, said the work of distributing the NEVI funds largely fell to state offices that had never worked on EV charging before.

“Considering it’s a brand new program and the minimal amount of background that a lot of the state DOTs had in EV infrastructure, procurement and deployment when we went into this, I’m thrilled how fast they’ve gotten things off the ground,” McDonnell said.

That’s shown in the states that have been early leaders in the program. Ohio was able to become the first state to break ground on a NEVI charger largely because it had completed years of planning and siting work for an EV network before the infrastructure law passed, said Preeti Choudhary, the executive director of DriveOhio, the state office administering the funds.
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“They say the happiest day when you buy an electric car is the first 10 minutes you’re driving it, and then after that, panic sets in because you’re worried, ‘Where the hell am I going to get a charge to keep this thing going?’” Trump said.

What a stupid thing to say and totally untrue. Red meat for his jackals.

This is a politician who gets it, and heavens forbid, a Republican!

Ohio Republican Gov. Mike DeWine, whose state broke ground on the nation’s first charger funded by the NEVI program in October, said in a statement that he is committed to “truly positioning Ohioans for the electric future.”

Well, it didn't take long to find, and it's a same type of issue plaguing the CHIPS act, because everything with the current administration resolves around DEI nonsensical requirements that will be hard to meet for many electrical contractors:

 
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
Jan 12, 2015
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​

Knight Shift said:
“They say the happiest day when you buy an electric car is the first 10 minutes you’re driving it, and then after that, panic sets in because you’re worried, ‘Where the hell am I going to get a charge to keep this thing going?’” Trump said.

What a stupid thing to say and totally untrue. Red meat for his jackals.

This is a politician who gets it, and heavens forbid, a Republican!

Ohio Republican Gov. Mike DeWine, whose state broke ground on the nation’s first charger funded by the NEVI program in October, said in a statement that he is committed to “truly positioning Ohioans for the electric future.”

Well, it didn't take long to find, and it's a same type of issue plaguing the CHIPS act, because everything with the current administration resolves around DEI nonsensical requirements that will be hard to meet for many electrical contractors:

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Untrue? LOL. Well at least your EV worshipping write-in vote for DeWine is meaningless in NJ. #Clown

 
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M

mildone_rivals

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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine said:
Untrue? LOL. Well at least your EV worshipping write-in vote for DeWine is meaningless in NJ. #Clown
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MY SIDE GOOD! 🤣

Because a poll from 2022 that tells us what we all already knew (e.g. range anxiety is a thing) can justify some dunderhead politician making a laughably hyperbolic statement to excite the critical-reasoning-deficient sycophantic cultists among his voting base, all of whom were already voting for him anyway.

You ask for proof while providing it. Appreciate you, man. 🙂
 
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
Jan 12, 2015
37,651
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​

mildone said:
MY SIDE GOOD! 🤣

Because a poll from 2022 that tells us what we all already knew (e.g. range anxiety is a thing) can justify some dunderhead politician making a laughably hyperbolic statement to excite the critical-reasoning-deficient sycophantic cultists among his voting base, all of whom were already voting for him anyway.

You ask for proof while providing it. Appreciate you, man. 🙂
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Hey dumbass, your buddy has been initiating the antagonistic political commentary-surprising that the Mods allow it but that's fine by me. Naturally Knightie was wrong again about that comment being 'totally untrue', when in fact it's predominately true--thanks for confirming. Let me know when you find a more current poll or survey or data disproving that reality. Meanwhile, that Trump statement was made at a rally with autoworkers in Michigan. So again, you have no clue know what you're blathering on about. I guess that's why your attempt at starting a CE Board was such a failure lol.
 
M

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
55,607
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine said:
Hey dumbass, your buddy has been initiating the antagonistic political commentary-surprising that the Mods allow it but that's fine by me. Naturally Knightie was wrong again about that comment being 'totally untrue', when in fact it's predominately true--thanks for confirming. Let me know when you find a more current poll or survey or data disproving that reality. Meanwhile, that Trump statement was made at a rally with autoworkers in Michigan. So again, you have no clue know what you're blathering on about. I guess that's why your attempt at starting a CE Board was such a failure lol.
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Seems I struck a nerve. 🤣

On the plus side, your posts have evolved some and you've achieved 3rd grader status with the "but he started it" line. So at least you got that going for you.
 
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
Jan 12, 2015
37,651
37,537
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​

mildone said:
Seems I struck a nerve. 🤣

On the plus side, your posts have evolved some and you've achieved 3rd grader status with the "but he started it" line. So at least you got that going for you.
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If by lol'ing at you means striking a nerve than sure, ok...lol.

On the downside, for you, you're still stuck in the baby pool when it comes to being informed enough to reach well-reasoned opinions. But don't give up, keep paddling...lol.
 
M

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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RUevolution36 said:

this thing not only tries to kill you when it's moving with its dumb FSD, but it tries to kill you when it's parked too.
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Could the CT be just the latest way, after FSD and Autopilot, for Tesla to stimulate natural selection among their customer base. Hm.

Or has the AI-first Musk experiment produced a self-aware product that has realized the incurable failure that is humanity? Producing a relatively inexpensive, cheaply made, 7000 pound, 2.6s, easily rusting vehicle with bad handling and truck-like braking distances and then giving it sharp edges seems like maybe the CT is out to start killing humans.

Perhaps we should nickname it the Terminator. 😀
 
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BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

BIGRUBIGDBIGredmachine

Heisman
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Biden to Hike Tariffs on China EVs and Offer Solar Exclusions​

President Joe Biden will quadruple tariffs on Chinese electric vehicles and sharply increase levies for other key industries this week, unveiling the measures at a White House event framed as a defense of American workers, people familiar with the matter said.

Biden will hike or add tariffs in the targeted sectors after nearly two years of review. The total tariff on Chinese EVs will rise to 102.5% from 27.5%, the people said, speaking on condition of anonymity ahead of the announcement. Others will double or triple in targeted industries, though the scope remains unclear.
 
R

RUschool

Heisman
Jan 23, 2004
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A tiny, low-priced electric car called the Seagull has American automakers and politicians trembling.

The car, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China, but drives well and is put together with craftsmanship that rivals U.S. electric vehicles that cost three times as much. A shorter-range version costs under $10,000.

Tariffs on imported Chinese vehicles will keep the Seagull out of America for now, and it likely would sell for more than 12 grand if imported.

But the rapid emergence of low-priced EVs from China could shake up the global auto industry in ways not seen since Japanese makers arrived during the oil crises of the 1970s. BYD, which stands for “Build Your Dreams,” could be a nightmare for the U.S. auto industry.

“Any car company that’s not paying attention to them as a competitor is going to be lost when they hit their market,” said Sam Fiorani, a vice president at AutoForecast Solutions near Philadelphia. “BYD’s entry into the U.S. market isn’t an if. It’s a when.”

The Alliance for American Manufacturing says in a paper that government subsidized Chinese EVs “could end up being an extinction-level event for the U.S. auto sector.”

Earlier this year, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said Chinese EVs are so good that without trade barriers, “they will pretty much demolish most other car companies in the world.”
 
R

RUDead

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Sep 20, 2017
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rutgersdave said:

A tiny, low-priced electric car called the Seagull has American automakers and politicians trembling.

The car, launched last year by Chinese automaker BYD, sells for around $12,000 in China, but drives well and is put together with craftsmanship that rivals U.S. electric vehicles that cost three times as much. A shorter-range version costs under $10,000.

Tariffs on imported Chinese vehicles will keep the Seagull out of America for now, and it likely would sell for more than 12 grand if imported.

But the rapid emergence of low-priced EVs from China could shake up the global auto industry in ways not seen since Japanese makers arrived during the oil crises of the 1970s. BYD, which stands for “Build Your Dreams,” could be a nightmare for the U.S. auto industry.

“Any car company that’s not paying attention to them as a competitor is going to be lost when they hit their market,” said Sam Fiorani, a vice president at AutoForecast Solutions near Philadelphia. “BYD’s entry into the U.S. market isn’t an if. It’s a when.”

The Alliance for American Manufacturing says in a paper that government subsidized Chinese EVs “could end up being an extinction-level event for the U.S. auto sector.”

Earlier this year, Tesla CEO Elon Musk said Chinese EVs are so good that without trade barriers, “they will pretty much demolish most other car companies in the world.”
Click to expand...

Just another reason why the gov't shouldn't be picking winners and losers using taxpayer money.
 
Knight Shift

Knight Shift

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R

Rutgers Chris

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Semi EV related, but has anyone used Turo to rent a car? Using it for the first time in a few weeks. A friend has used it a lot when traveling and likes it much better than traditional rental cars. She compared it to an Airbnb for cars. Makes me think maybe there will be more of an appetite for Robotaxi than I expected.

 
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M

mildone_rivals

Heisman
Dec 19, 2011
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RUevolution36 said:
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If that report is accurate, and given Musk’s increasingly erratic behavior, I lean towards thinking it is fairly accurate, then it’s all the more reason why Musk needs to go.

All the Musk sack-slurpers will, of course, rush to his defense with cultish fervor. But while the man may be brilliant, that sort of knee-jerk management approach is anything but brilliant. Firing everybody but yes-men is already a recipe for failure. Continuing on and firing an entire team, if portrayed accurately, is a whole lot worse than that.
 
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RUAldo

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Rutgers Chris said:
Semi EV related, but has anyone used Turo to rent a car? Using it for the first time in a few weeks. A friend has used it a lot when traveling and likes it much better than traditional rental cars. She compared it to an Airbnb for cars. Makes me think maybe there will be more of an appetite for Robotaxi than I expected.

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I’ve used it. Crazy cheap. I don’t know how those guys make money. Only issue was had to meet the owner offsite because airport does not allow it.
 
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