The 2002 version of Runs Created includes sacrifice flies and sacrifice hits, and penalizes strikeouts, meaning, yes, this formula does make a distinction between strikeouts and the other outs a batter makes.
Runs created - Wikipedia
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OT: Happy 93rd Birthday to maybe the best that ever played the game.
- Thread starter MtNittany
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There are few books more enjoyable than Bill James’s Historical Baseball Abstracts. He’s doing the best he can and continuously refines his formulas. (They already do a remarkable job of predicting Won-Loss records.) For example, he once chose Musial over Williams in Left Field. (Musial was better as a fielder, as a base runner, and in the clubhouse.) The next time he revises the formula he has Williams back on top. He’s never boring. His later editions dig deep into the Negro Leagues, just great.
His books are full of weird factoids: What is the minimum number of batters a pitcher must face to be credited with a complete game? Answer is 13 batters: the pitcher is on the away team, gets 12 outs out of 13 batters, the 13th hits a home run, and the game is called because of rain after the top of the fifth, home team wins 1-0. It’s actually happened. Baseball history is his life.
His books are full of weird factoids: What is the minimum number of batters a pitcher must face to be credited with a complete game? Answer is 13 batters: the pitcher is on the away team, gets 12 outs out of 13 batters, the 13th hits a home run, and the game is called because of rain after the top of the fifth, home team wins 1-0. It’s actually happened. Baseball history is his life.
Same number of seadons played. I will go out on a big limb here and say Mays wasn’t hitting 96 more homers and 389 more RBI even if he had 1500 more ABs. Any more excuses you can come up with for Mays?
When you can’t win on merits resort to ad hominem attacks huh? The Babe doesn’t crush anyone since only white players played back then.
When did I do that? I responded to those who claimed that Mays was better than Aaron by pointing out stats which in my view indicate otherwise. Also said elsewhere that who was better is ultimately a matter of opinion but that to claim Mays was unquestionably better was nonsense. For the record, I would take an outfield of Mays, Aaron and Clemente against any collection of three other outfielders who ever player the game.
Seriously?
Aaron had more power?
By your logic Willie Stargell, Mark MacGwire, and Dave Kingman had less power than Aaron.
We get it. You love the guy. You can point out his many strengths to make your case without inflating his abilities in all things.
Unfortunately I’m old enough to have seen them both play. To my adolescent eye Willie was better.
Center field, shortstop and catcher are the premium defensive positions in baseball. Having a gold glove at those three positions is more valuable (and harder) than other positions. Willie had 12 gold gloves, Aaron 3.
Willie played in the Polo Grounds and Candlestick, both places that were difficult to hit home runs. Aaron played much of his career in Atlanta playing in a very HR friendly park. Aaron had 1500 more career at bats.
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This is without nutrition, advanced training methods, etc. The crazy thing is that these guys heights and weights are minuscule compared to the monsters like Judge and others today. But I challenge you to find a guy with stronger forearms than Mays or stronger hands than Aaron. Mays was still physically imposing well into his 50’s and if you ever shook Aaron’s hand you would not forget it.
Says the "I can't believe someone questions me" guy. You KNOW it's hilarious, that's why your derogatory remark. The Laugh-O-Meter has it at an 11 out of 10! Gotcha! Why not belabor your pointless points with another three or four hundred delusional posts? Throneberry > Aaron!
Not picking sides between Mays Aaron, but I will point out a couple things.
Mays missed over 1.5 years with military service. Who knows what he would have done in that time as he didn’t leave as a star, but came back as a 40+ HR MVP.
Aaron had HOF Mathews from the start as a teammate. Mays started with no HOF guys, but then got both McCovey and Cepeda as a teammates. Oddly, Mays won his only WS early on.
Few, if any, had the extended higher level seasons of productivity that Aaron had (16 of 17 years with 100 runs and/or RBIs).
Probably in the minority, but I don’t care for theoretical stats like WAR or so called Runs Created (there is a very easy way to calculate real runs created). I look at real stats and realize different eras have different levels.
Mays missed over 1.5 years with military service. Who knows what he would have done in that time as he didn’t leave as a star, but came back as a 40+ HR MVP.
Aaron had HOF Mathews from the start as a teammate. Mays started with no HOF guys, but then got both McCovey and Cepeda as a teammates. Oddly, Mays won his only WS early on.
Few, if any, had the extended higher level seasons of productivity that Aaron had (16 of 17 years with 100 runs and/or RBIs).
Probably in the minority, but I don’t care for theoretical stats like WAR or so called Runs Created (there is a very easy way to calculate real runs created). I look at real stats and realize different eras have different levels.
Look, it's a bit subjective, and it's just our respective opinions. It makes for great conversation at a bar or cocktail party. What is NOT subjective is that Mays and Aaron stand well above any players of their generation, and the only everyday players who can hang with them, in my humble opinion, are Ruth and Ted Williams.
Mantle had more speed and power than either Mays or Aaron, but injuries and some hard partying took a toll on him. As great as he was, he could have been even better. I'm just going with what they actually did on the field.