OT: Hmmmmm...doesn't mention lawyers and doctors and such...just engineering
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Probably because the list is for undergraduate degrees. Takes grad/professional/med school to get to be a doctor or lawyer or other such specialty
I worked at a prominent law firm in Mississippi last year as an internship and he told me not to go into the law profession for money, because too many people are going to law school now and law firms have their pick. Cited the fact that 10 years ago he had to pay high dollar for recent grads because they demanded it and deserved it, now they might deserve it but here are 1000 kids behind them and they don't have to pay them squat.
Said he could pay $35,000 to a recent grad to be an entry level *****. Will that same person make a 17 ton of money some day? Yeah. But it's a "dues" type job, where if you look at the national trend, engineers make a ton upfront and have to go into ownership to reach the same level in the long term.
I'm assuming the medical profession is a lot of the same.
Engineering is a lot more stable to go into right now in 2012. Lawyers and doctors don't seem to retire.
It's affected engineering too, just not as obviously. Top grads still pull top dollar, but everyone else can't pull entry level salaries like in the past: there's many that would be glad just for a job. Similarly, many have to prove themselves (and often switch jobs) before they get that early top dollar job. I guess it hasn't affected te rankings as much, because so many "entry-level" jobs in engineering now require 3 years experience.
If you take and pass the Professional Engineering test it is
But that only comes after a certain number of years of experience. The numbers were for just getting a BS in engineering. You can't bet a bachelor's in law or medicine (not counting nurses). Lawyers have to go to law school after they get their BA/BS and doctors have to go to med school, and then any specialty training beyond that. Of course, engineers can go to graduate school too but it's not quite the same thing as law and med school.
But that only comes after a certain number of years of experience. The numbers were for just getting a BS in engineering. You can't bet a bachelor's in law or medicine (not counting nurses). Lawyers have to go to law school after they get their BA/BS and doctors have to go to med school, and then any specialty training beyond that. Of course, engineers can go to graduate school too but it's not quite the same thing as law and med school.
Medicine isn't the same.
The number of residency slots in teaching hospitals is kept artifically low, so medicine simply doesn't have the glut of people entering the profession.
Unless you're going to a top tier law school, and end up in the top third of your class, law school is kind of a losing proposition at the moment.
The number of residency slots in teaching hospitals is kept artifically low, so medicine simply doesn't have the glut of people entering the profession.
Unless you're going to a top tier law school, and end up in the top third of your class, law school is kind of a losing proposition at the moment.
Lawyers are too. Just not in the beginning. Divorce is where the money is, and typically you need to have stature in order to get into that business.
I wish Mississippi politicians would quit putting all of their focus on bringing factories to Mississippi and sell the fact that we're smack dab in the middle of all the southern financial markets and its 1000x cheaper to own a big building or anything in Jackson than anywhere else in the US. To boot there are some pretty solid business schools to hire from in a 6 hour radius.
The fact that Worldcom collapsed because of fraud in the end is irrelevant... They thrived for a good bit of time. Why couldn't someone else?
Law market is saturated. Too many lawyers, and not enough spots
Plus, in the long run many lawyers hate their job. Being a doctor is no walk in the park either- what with medical malpractice, the increasing government regulation of medicine (ie, Obamacare), etc. it's hard to earn big money as a doctor, even in highly specialized fields. From what I've seen, being a Nurse Practictioner is a better field- get to do most of the work the old-time doctors used to do, but without all the extra years of Med School, Internship, Residency, etc.
As for engineering, it all depends which engineering you go into. Construction-related engineering is way down because of the recession, and a lot of the pre-engineering work is shipped overseas to cut down costs. Petroleum Engineering is boom-or-bust: You're either making huge money with a choice of places to work, or struggling to find a job somewhere.
Chemical Engineers can make HUGE money coming out of school- but there's only so many limited slots. Network Engineering and Computer Engineering are definitely the hot engineering slots to shoot for right now.
I've heard rumors that NSPE is wanting to increase the prestige of the Engineering profession by requiring a Masters Degree before you can be a Licensed Engineer, make Graduate Engineering school similar to Law School. Make a four-year Engineering degree relatively general, then go into a specialty in Grad School. Get your FE after graduating with a BS, graduate grad school with a specialty degree, then make the PE exam like Bar Exam. Personally, I don't like it but I know many engineers who seem to approve (of course, they'd be grandfathered in).
Plus, in the long run many lawyers hate their job. Being a doctor is no walk in the park either- what with medical malpractice, the increasing government regulation of medicine (ie, Obamacare), etc. it's hard to earn big money as a doctor, even in highly specialized fields. From what I've seen, being a Nurse Practictioner is a better field- get to do most of the work the old-time doctors used to do, but without all the extra years of Med School, Internship, Residency, etc.
As for engineering, it all depends which engineering you go into. Construction-related engineering is way down because of the recession, and a lot of the pre-engineering work is shipped overseas to cut down costs. Petroleum Engineering is boom-or-bust: You're either making huge money with a choice of places to work, or struggling to find a job somewhere.
Chemical Engineers can make HUGE money coming out of school- but there's only so many limited slots. Network Engineering and Computer Engineering are definitely the hot engineering slots to shoot for right now.
I've heard rumors that NSPE is wanting to increase the prestige of the Engineering profession by requiring a Masters Degree before you can be a Licensed Engineer, make Graduate Engineering school similar to Law School. Make a four-year Engineering degree relatively general, then go into a specialty in Grad School. Get your FE after graduating with a BS, graduate grad school with a specialty degree, then make the PE exam like Bar Exam. Personally, I don't like it but I know many engineers who seem to approve (of course, they'd be grandfathered in).
Engineering is beginning to suffer, especially those involved in defense/aerospace because of the looming budget cuts under "sequestration". If that goes through, and no one knows what's going to happen, a lot of engineers will find themselves in soup lines. I'm pretty sure the Huntsville area will suffer ... it already has for the NASA side with the elimination of the Constellation program, especially for contractors, but that's been more than made up with DoD people moving in because of BRAC. But if sequestration takes place, much of that could go out the window.
I kinda like the new structuring of engineering that you mentioned. I think it would ensure that once you're a full-fledged engineer, you would be qualified to do your job. However, I think it would drastically curtail the number of people who go into the field (a 4 year degree would basically just make a person an engineering technician) so there would be a huge shortage.
I kinda like the new structuring of engineering that you mentioned. I think it would ensure that once you're a full-fledged engineer, you would be qualified to do your job. However, I think it would drastically curtail the number of people who go into the field (a 4 year degree would basically just make a person an engineering technician) so there would be a huge shortage.
I was told there are so many in oxford that they make their living by suing each other.
What he said. I'm in no way downplaying engineering degrees, was just commenting on the nature of the article linked.
as someone with an engineering from msu and a law degree, i'm happy with my job and feel fortunate to be where i'm at. but i've been saying for years that the ABA needs to step in and limit class sizes and eliminate dozens of low tier law schools, essentially keeping the legal market from becoming saturated like it is now. there are schools with 400+, 500+ students PER CLASS, so well over 1000 students total across 3 classes. and you have hundreds of law schools across the country, many of them being generally subpar. i went to a law school with class sizes around 160-180, which is much more reasonable. just like med school, maybe law school isn't for everyone.
i would not recommend law school to anyone right now unless they were off the charts intelligent, blew up the LSAT, and had an opportunity to go to an elite school or a good school with a scholarship paying for a chunk of their tuition.
I think
he's referencing the fact that one has to go to school after undergrad, in order to recive their law or medical degree.
I have no data, but I would think a doctor (on average) makes more than an engineer (on average) right out of school.
he's referencing the fact that one has to go to school after undergrad, in order to recive their law or medical degree.
I have no data, but I would think a doctor (on average) makes more than an engineer (on average) right out of school.