OT: Internet: Good and Bad

[dconifer0]

I feel like the emergence of the internet is maybe the most impactful (on society) events of my lifetime. We all know the great thing it has brought about.

But it has also created a culture of intolerance. Everybody can now find a pocket of people with similar beliefs, whether those beliefs are sensible and well/founded or not. I suppose it makes us all more sure that we know everything. The result is a world full of blustering people who are certain that any one who disagrees with them is a moron who is determined to ruin the country and even the world. Not everybody is that way, but the numbers are growing. Maybe I am one of them.

It didn’t used to be like that. Ironically, We were more open-minded before the internet. The intolerant ranters used to be considered cartoonish outliers, be they so-called “leftists” or “right-wingers.”

We were better off without it, when people tended more to absorb information (not just what they are already pre-disposed to) and thought for themselves.

I will go back on my meds now. I should probably be banned for this post, and especially for being a Terrapin fan…

 

[anon_ivydyf0amkzay]

Far worse than the internet and any/all forms of mostly worthless social media is the lack of responsibility, respect for the law and a semblance of even a modicum of work ethic. The internet just makes it a lot easier to see.

Where society is going is not pretty. Rutgers has a better shot of winning the national championship in football than our 50 states ever being truly “united”

Sad…

 

[Plum Street]

Social media is bad.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Don’t know where it came from but a quote going around my friend group is “Facebook has done to our parents brains what they warned video games would do to ours.” Couldn’t be more true in my experience.

 

[brgRC90]

I feel like the emergence of the internet is maybe the most impactful (on society) events of my lifetime. We all know the great thing it has brought about.

But it has also created a culture of intolerance. Everybody can now find a pocket of people with similar beliefs, whether those beliefs are sensible and well/founded or not. I suppose it makes us all more sure that we know everything. The result is a world full of blustering people who are certain that any one who disagrees with them is a moron who is determined to ruin the country and even the world. Not everybody is that way, but the numbers are growing. Maybe I am one of them.

It didn’t used to be like that. Ironically, We were more open-minded before the internet. The intolerant ranters used to be considered cartoonish outliers, be they so-called “leftists” or “right-wingers.”

We were better off without it, when people tended more to absorb information (not just what they are already pre-disposed to) and thought for themselves.

I will go back on my meds now. I should probably be banned for this post, and especially for being a Terrapin fan…

It seems to be a relatively small number of very loud people, however. A large portion of people have beliefs that are more varied and moderate than the fringes.

 

[newwavedave1]

I saw it on the internet so it must be true. Misinformation is now our new reality.

 

[wheezer]

I like the internet because you often can find things out well in advance of official announcement, for those hungry for every detail of their team

Interesting enough, I think both the formation of the big east football in 1979 and the addition of RU and Maryland to the big ten more recently, were not exposed as early as one would have thought and pretty close to the official announcements
Today, with a wider scope of internet, the addition of two more out west teams to the big ten would not be a shock

 

[mildone_rivals]

This is a good thread about an important subject. Sadly, it will quickly become politicized and then moved to the CE board. But I agree, the internet has provided great benefits but also led to some new problems. The problems are very widespread and getting worse every year.

I think what the internet does is magnify the difference between dealing with a person and dealing with people. One advantage of the internet is that it can bring huge numbers of people together (albeit somewhat artificially). But that's at least as much of a disadvantage as an advantage.

Because individual people are awesome. But as we form groups, the awesomeness starts to fade and some awfulness creeps in. The larger the group, the more the worst elements of humanity surfaces.

 

[Knight Shift]

I feel like the emergence of the internet is maybe the most impactful (on society) events of my lifetime. We all know the great thing it has brought about.

But it has also created a culture of intolerance. Everybody can now find a pocket of people with similar beliefs, whether those beliefs are sensible and well/founded or not. I suppose it makes us all more sure that we know everything. The result is a world full of blustering people who are certain that any one who disagrees with them is a moron who is determined to ruin the country and even the world. Not everybody is that way, but the numbers are growing. Maybe I am one of them.

It didn’t used to be like that. Ironically, We were more open-minded before the internet. The intolerant ranters used to be considered cartoonish outliers, be they so-called “leftists” or “right-wingers.”

We were better off without it, when people tended more to absorb information (not just what they are already pre-disposed to) and thought for themselves.

I will go back on my meds now. I should probably be banned for this post, and especially for being a Terrapin fan…

I'm an optimist at heart, and just like the food system in this country (which is horrific), one can go to a fast food place, be selective and find healthy food.

Same with the internet. I get a lot of useful information from social media. But like many people, sometimes I get pulled down bad rabbit holes and misled by misinformation. It's helpful on some days to minimize internet and social media time.

The one major harm is internet "life" tends to form strong echo chambers (particularly on politics). A case in point are the diet wars between keto/low carb/carnivore crowd and the plant-based/vegetarian/vegan crowd. The stone-throwing and attacks get tiresome quickly. People need to find what works for them and make their own decisions.

Another polarizing area is sports. Mets fans are raging right now for a variety of good reasons, and it's comical when fans turn on each other and call names when they disagree on approach to fix the woes of their team.

 

[brgRC90]

This is a good thread about an important subject. Sadly, it will quickly become politicized and then moved to the CE board. But I agree, the internet has provided great benefits but also led to some new problems. The problems are very widespread and getting worse every year.

I think what the internet does is magnify the difference between dealing with a person and dealing with people. One advantage of the internet is that it can bring huge numbers of people together (albeit somewhat artificially). But that's at least as much of a disadvantage as an advantage.

Because individual people are awesome. But as we form groups, the awesomeness starts to fade and some awfulness creeps in. The larger the group, the more the worst elements of humanity surfaces.

I think it isnt groups so much as bias confirmation: people seek out like-minded individuals and data that backs up their pre-conceived notions, ignore any data that contradicts them, and then magnify each other. As a result, we have a lot of loony conspiracy theories that in an earlier age would've never gained traction becoming widespread.

 

[RUGuitarMan1]

Technological advancement has always been a double edged sword. It has helped make life easier and better and also has made life more insecure and dangerous in many ways. The one constant in life is change and technological progress is the primary engine. It impacts social and cultural constructs. Human beings have a great capacity to evolve and adjust and it is necessary in life.

 

[NewJerseyGuy]

I think it isnt groups so much as bias confirmation: people seek out like-minded individuals and data that backs up their pre-conceived notions, ignore any data that contradicts them, and then magnify each other. As a result, we have a lot of loony conspiracy theories that in an earlier age would've never gained traction becoming widespread.

Has exposed a lot of hypocrites too. Many of them are oblivious to their hypocrisy.

 

[mdk02]

This is a good thread about an important subject. Sadly, it will quickly become politicized and then moved to the CE board. But I agree, the internet has provided great benefits but also led to some new problems. The problems are very widespread and getting worse every year.

I think what the internet does is magnify the difference between dealing with a person and dealing with people. One advantage of the internet is that it can bring huge numbers of people together (albeit somewhat artificially). But that's at least as much of a disadvantage as an advantage.

Because individual people are awesome. But as we form groups, the awesomeness starts to fade and some awfulness creeps in. The larger the group, the more the worst elements of humanity surfaces.

And the awfulness is supercharged by the fact that you're dealing with screen names. However, as a research tool the internet is great.

 

[brgRC90]

Has exposed a lot of hypocrites too. Many of them are oblivious to their hypocrisy.

They don't have to realize they're hypocrites because other people agree with them. They must be right! And, of course, as I've seen in my lifetime, many people would literally rather die than ever admit they're wrong, even just to themselves. Certainly many of them go to their graves stubbornly refusing to ever change.

 

[RUBlackout7]

The internet is good for the most part.

Social media has been horrible for society and has made us collectively dumber. Way too much misinformation and it gives dumb people a platform to make other people dumb. It’s like a virus.

 

[megadrone]

Social media is bad.

Not so much that it's bad, but people will say things behind a keyboard that they would never say to each other's faces.

Dissemination of news via all channels should be a good thing, but control is going through a few outlets with their own agendas. So it's no better than the "classic" media outlets (newspaper, radio, TV).

How I see it.

 

[Plum Street]

Not so much that it's bad, but people will say things behind a keyboard that they would never say to each other's faces.

Dissemination of news via all channels should be a good thing, but control is going through a few outlets with their own agendas. So it's no better than the "classic" media outlets (newspaper, radio, TV).

How I see it.

That yes people talk sh$t on social media . It has also led to a lot of infidelity and divorces . It has affected relationships. It affects life . Kids get bullied on there etc.

The good it also brings people together and keeps people in touch . There is a lot of good info out there for people to get about doctors, contractors etc .

Mostly negatives but some positives

 

[NewJerseyGuy]

Not so much that it's bad, but people will say things behind a keyboard that they would never say to each other's faces.

And that is not always a bad thing.

We may hear valuable rebuttals to our opinions/stances/perspectives online that people we interact with in person may never feel comfortable enough to say out loud.

 

[mildone_rivals]

I think it isnt groups so much as bias confirmation: people seek out like-minded individuals and data that backs up their pre-conceived notions, ignore any data that contradicts them, and then magnify each other. As a result, we have a lot of loony conspiracy theories that in an earlier age would've never gained traction becoming widespread.

Confirmation bias can really suck, that's true. But without large groups, confirmation bias is far less powerful, right?

Because of evolutionary wiring, people in groups quickly start thinking about everything in terms of us versus them. And that's the entry point for a lot of awful human behavior. Such as: xenophobia, racism, bigotry, and all kinds of broadly applied demonization.

Individuals can harbor all those behaviors too, of course. But groups, the larger they get, magnify them and exacerbate them for whatever reasons. It sucks.

 

[mildone_rivals]

And the awfulness is supercharged by the fact that you're dealing with screen names. However, as a research tool the internet is great.

That's true, the anonymousness of the internet can be problematic.

OTOH, looking at social media (e.g. twitter and FB), even people who operate under their real names will join large groups (e.g. political affiliations), the sole purpose for which appears to be so they can take part in the broad stereotyping and demonization of other groups.

A quick spin around social media reveals 95% human horribleness (hate, fear, selfishness, cultishness, paranoia, finger-pointing) and 5% goodness (e.g. promoting charitable events for good causes like funding cancer research). Posts are overwhelmingly NOT "here's this idea for a solution that benefits us all". Instead, they're mostly focused on trashing some other group and its ideas.

IMO, that is not an ideal and productive path forward for society. Put two individuals in a room and they can work stuff out. Put two groups of a 1000 people in massive conference chamber and it's just way, way harder to work anything out, it usually devolves quickly.

And the internet is basically a tool where groups of many millions of people are in a room.

 

[brgRC90]

Confirmation bias can really suck, that's true. But without large groups, confirmation bias is far less powerful, right?

Because of evolutionary wiring, people in groups quickly start thinking about everything in terms of us versus them. And that's the entry point for a lot of awful human behavior. Such as: xenophobia, racism, bigotry, and all kinds of broadly applied demonization. Political

Individuals can harbor all those behaviors too, of course. But groups, the larger they get, magnify them and exacerbate them for whatever reasons. It sucks.

Groupthink. The internet definitely amplifies groupthink, even makes it global. People learn bad habits from each other and come to learn that certain behaviors they might've avoided are actually acceptable and even cool! Think of how many people pile on celebrities for plastic surgery or some other behavior who might've otherwise kept silent because they see others doing it.

 

[RutHut_rivals]

I have no opinion, which is the solution. In person, individuals are more likely to keep their dumbass, f@ckin opinions to themselves. The internet is good, if you avoid opinions and anyone looking to influence.

 

[brgRC90]

I have no opinion, which is the solution. In person, individuals are more likely to keep their dumbass, f@ckin opinions to themselves. The internet is good, if you avoid opinions and anyone looking to influence.

The utter ignorance with which people on both sides of the aisle speak about fascism, a subject I've studied a lot and know quite well, is an example of why I have little respect for most people's opinions at this point in my life. They're almost all completely wrong yet they'll fight tooth and nail as if they're experts.

 

[Knight Shift]

The internet is good for the most part.

Social media has been horrible for society and has made us collectively dumber. Way too much misinformation and it gives dumb people a platform to make other people dumb. It’s like a virus.

You said virus. . .
.

 

[RUInsanityToo]

The internet itself = good

The internet access and social media providers using algorithms which have a net effect of continually luring people into their own corners or bubbles = bad

 

[RU848789]

By far, the best thing about the internet is the ability to do find useful information of all kinds and answers to all manner of questions in seconds to minutes. It sometimes takes minutes to avoid the "sponsored" sites and misinformation sources and find the relevant useful info from actual expert sources, but this kind of thing took hours to days in the old days.

By far, the worst thing about the internet is the ability to do find useful information of all kinds and answers to all manner of questions in seconds to minutes. It has completely ruined the fun I used to have goofing on friends with made up **** that they believed because it sounded good (especially science stuff), since people can fact check you in seconds, lol.

I still find Facebook and message boards like this to be mostly fun, especially during an actual RU game or a big weather event and the OT stuff is entertaining, if occasionally annoying given the animosity and lack of critical thinking many show. And FB is cool for finding out about local events and keeping up with how friends are doing and I enjoy sharing weather/science info there, which people seem to appreciate (and no trolling as opposed to here).

Of course, we're about to see what is likely an even bigger revolution with AI/ChatGPT-4 and beyond. Lots of promise, but also some trepidation. Let's just hope Skynet doesn't wreck it all.

 

[Scarlet Jerry]

Topics like this one are now the focus of my life's work, as both a technology historian and a futurist. The combination of Social Media and AI is a potential disaster for our society. We also need to remember Amara's Law:

“We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run.”

Scarlet Jerry

 

[jreinsdorf]

The internet is good for the most part.

Social media has been horrible for society and has made us collectively dumber. Way too much misinformation and it gives dumb people a platform to make other people dumb. It’s like a virus.

This x 100. The internet is generally a tremendous asset. Social media is hot garbage. The anonymity of it all just exacerbates the problem.

 

[NickRU714]

If the internet or social media you see if toxic - that's a you problem. Not the tool.

My IG is filled with people running, working out, cooking and moms/dads making funny reels about their kids.

Facebook? Haven't used it in years other than local town groups. And only when I need to ask a question or get school related information.

Twitter? Have never posted. I go to the Ringer Twitter accounts to see NBA/NFL/sports reactions and comments. That's it.
Recently (past month) have started checking out some Rutgers accounts.

Reddit? Lurk on Giants, Knicks, Nets, NBA and NFL forums. Plus a couple comedy related ones.

In order to complain about the "divisiness" and "nastiness" on the internet you need to go looking for it first.

Nobody is forcing you to read Twitter or Facebook comments or go looking for things to get outraged about.

 

[RutHut_rivals]

Topics like this one are now the focus of my life's work, as both a technology historian and a futurist. The combination of Social Media and AI is a potential disaster for our society. We also need to remember Amara's Law:

“We tend to overestimate the effect of a technology in the short run and underestimate the effect in the long run.”

Scarlet Jerry

Can you expand on your last sentence or give an example of how it pertains to AI or SM?

 

[Knight Shift]

If the internet or social media you see if toxic - that's a you problem. Not the tool.

My IG is filled with people running, working out, cooking and moms/dads making funny reels about their kids.

Facebook? Haven't used it in years other than local town groups. And only when I need to ask a question or get school related information.

Twitter? Have never posted. I go to the Ringer Twitter accounts to see NBA/NFL/sports reactions and comments. That's it.
Recently (past month) have started checking out some Rutgers accounts.

Reddit? Lurk on Giants, Knicks, Nets, NBA and NFL forums. Plus a couple comedy related ones.

In order to complain about the "divisiness" and "nastiness" on the internet you need to go looking for it first.

Nobody is forcing you to read Twitter or Facebook comments or go looking for things to get outraged about.

Exactly right. People complaining about social media are making social media worse.
There are tools such as ignore, mute, etc to filter out stuff you don't want to see and people you don't want to hear from. Some people enjoy looking for trouble, participating in nasty discussions, and then complaining about it.

My experience is about the same as yours, except I can't do Instagram. Too much garbage posting that can't be filtered out.

Twitter, on the other hand, is fantastic for me. Set the people you want to follow on a topic (for me: diet, nutrition, wellness, longevity, exercise, RU athletics, Mets) and then just set your feed to "Following". If someone interrupts your flow, mute them or ignore them. I have obtained more valuable information via Twitter from MDs and University professors than I could ever get via searching the internet generally. I have interacted with leading MDs and experts in nutrition and exercise on a variety of topics.

 

[brgRC90]

If the internet or social media you see if toxic - that's a you problem. Not the tool.

My IG is filled with people running, working out, cooking and moms/dads making funny reels about their kids.

Facebook? Haven't used it in years other than local town groups. And only when I need to ask a question or get school related information.

Twitter? Have never posted. I go to the Ringer Twitter accounts to see NBA/NFL/sports reactions and comments. That's it.
Recently (past month) have started checking out some Rutgers accounts.

Reddit? Lurk on Giants, Knicks, Nets, NBA and NFL forums. Plus a couple comedy related ones.

In order to complain about the "divisiness" and "nastiness" on the internet you need to go looking for it first.

Nobody is forcing you to read Twitter or Facebook comments or go looking for things to get outraged about.

It definitely matters who you follow and who follows you but social media does have a tendency to sneak things into your life that will poison it if you aren't vigilant, like politics and culture war issues, advertisements from politicians and other figures, religious disputes. An awful lot of people are looking for a fight to prove to the world how smart they think they are. It can be very hard to screen out.

 

[dconifer0]

Exactly right. People complaining about social media are making social media worse.
There are tools such as ignore, mute, etc to filter out stuff you don't want to see and people you don't want to hear from. Some people enjoy looking for trouble, participating in nasty discussions, and then complaining about it.

My experience is about the same as yours, except I can't do Instagram. Too much garbage posting that can't be filtered out.

Twitter, on the other hand, is fantastic for me. Set the people you want to follow on a topic (for me: diet, nutrition, wellness, longevity, exercise, RU athletics, Mets) and then just set your feed to "Following". If someone interrupts your flow, mute them or ignore them. I have obtained more valuable information via Twitter from MDs and University professors than I could ever get via searching the internet generally. I have interacted with leading MDs and experts in nutrition and exercise on a variety of topics.

These are all great points made by you and Nick. And I, like you, tailor my limited time on social media to avoid negativity and useless chatter. The benefits of these new technologies is nearly infinite; I have no argument with that.

However, just to be clear, my original post isn't really about what I get out of internet and social media (I don't make the distinction between these that many others make). I am more concerned with what I believe is the net effect of this technology on attitudes and behavior of real people in the real world...

 

[Knight Shift]

These are all great points made by you and Nick. And I, like you, tailor my limited time on social media to avoid negativity and useless chatter. The benefits of these new technologies is nearly infinite; I have no argument with that.

However, just to be clear, my original post isn't really about what I get out of internet and social media (I don't make the distinction between these that many others make). I am more concerned with what I believe is the net effect of this technology on attitudes and behavior of real people in the real world...

Echo chambers is the biggest problem. But is this any different than groups of people who hung out together socially in person, for example, meeting up in bars, etc? Maybe it makes the echo chambers louder and perhaps more dangerous.

 

[dconifer0]

Echo chambers is the biggest problem. But is this any different than groups of people who hung out together socially in person, for example, meeting up in bars, etc? Maybe it makes the echo chambers louder and perhaps more dangerous.

I've thought about it from that perspective as well, and you're right, it seems no different. Maybe I am completely wrong, and the current volatility and polarization are not due to the internet...

 

[RUschool]

The only social media I follow are these boards. Is this board considered social media? I don’t have time to sit and type on the IPad.

 

[mildone_rivals]

These are all great points made by you and Nick. And I, like you, tailor my limited time on social media to avoid negativity and useless chatter. The benefits of these new technologies is nearly infinite; I have no argument with that.

However, just to be clear, my original post isn't really about what I get out of internet and social media (I don't make the distinction between these that many others make). I am more concerned with what I believe is the net effect of this technology on attitudes and behavior of real people in the real world...

Like you you and @Knight Shift and @NickRU714 , I don't see much toxicity on my FB or twitter or Instagram feeds.

But people repost social media posts all over the place, including here on this forum and other forums. And a lot of websites of all kinds contain articles about which they encourage comments. Those comment areas are often cellpools of uninformed and/or moronic and/or toxic behavior. There's a huge amount of misplaced seething anger out there. The level of intolerance on display (coming from all directions) is pretty insane.

The internet, which breeds and propagates disinformation/misinformation and thus produces fear and paranoia, is feeding all that anger in a way, and at a scale, newspapers never did.

Add in deep fakes of both still images and videos, indistinguishable from real ones, showing public figures doing or saying stuff they never did, and it's a recipe for serious problems.

 

[Knight Shift]

I've thought about it from that perspective as well, and you're right, it seems no different. Maybe I am completely wrong, and the current volatility and polarization are not due to the internet...

I don't think you are wrong at all.
Here's a problem with internet and social media. Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Tik Tok, etc are used daily on your news channels of choice- don't care if it is the lefty drivel or the righty nonsense. These outlets use social media to rile people up and energize and galvanize their base. They magnify issues that are relatively small time stuff into huge national issues that get people riled up and worked up over stupid ****.

Take the Bud Light beer can issue. Really? A person's face on a beer can upsets you that much that you are going to stand on your hind legs and clap like a seal while douchey Kid Rock shoots up Bud Light cans? This behavior is borderline cave man behavior. In the grand scheme of things Bud Light could have quietly tried to cater to the transgender community with little fanfare and it probably would not have been a big deal. But the lefty, woke virtue signaling was trumpeted on social media, picked up by the right wing outlets, and the Trumpheads came running in with pitchforks and fire. It was both sad and utterly comical, but a fitting vignette of our times. We could all stand to be a little less judgmental and reactionary to issues that don't really mattter---like a crappy piss-water beer. The irony of the whole thing for Bud Light is the transgender demographic is not that large to begin with, and I am familiar with several transgender people, and while no hard evidence was presented, my impression is transgender people are not huge consumers of beer. But an awful lot of people on both sides got their undies all tightened up and acted stupid for a while.

 

[mdk02]

Echo chambers is the biggest problem. But is this any different than groups of people who hung out together socially in person, for example, meeting up in bars, etc? Maybe it makes the echo chambers louder and perhaps more dangerous.

An echo chamber in a bar is maybe 4-5 and up to 10. Online is a whole different story. I was seriously looking at online social media around the time of the Boston Marathon Bombing. The level of disinformation, not even connected with politics and trolls, was so over the top I said no thanks.

 

[mildone_rivals]

An echo chamber in a bar is maybe 4-5 and up to 10. Online is a whole different story. I was seriously looking at online social media around the time of the Boston Marathon Bombing. The level of disinformation, not even connected with politics and trolls, was so over the top I said no thanks.

I agree with all that.

I try to avoid alarmist thinking. But the degree to which crazed echo chamber nonsense pervades social media is actually a little frightening to me.

Not because I've had to realize that there are way more people out there incapable of critical reasoning than I originally thought. But that, by giving them all a very public voice on the internet, they've become empowered to believe they are correct in whatever they say because so many others are saying the same thing.

This is not a good thing.