OT: Mississippi #50 again

[PooPopsBaldHead]

What gives? According to the brewers association there are only 20 micro/craft breweries in the state of Mississippi. That's dead last in total and per capita. Is this because of legal issues, demand, or just a lack of enterprising entrepreneurs?

Looking at the color board there seems to be a Bible Belt thing going on the matter.

 

[msstatelp1]

I'm happy our backward assed politicians allowed them to exist. The more the merrier but I won't complain with what we have.

 

[Dawgbite]

Lack of large towns that could support a small brewery is part of it. Demographics is the main reason, a microbrewery isn't brewing up a 1.29 malt liquor.

 

[TaleofTwoDogs]

I'm too lazy to research but I would think the #50 ranking is impacted by many factors including:

1. Bible Belt
2. Low income per capita - a micro/craft brew in a tall glass is way more expensive that a 12oz can of PBR from Walmart.
3. Malt Liquor is not tyically found in a micro brewery because of high alcohol content. A large percent of the south's population prefers Colt 45.
4. Micro/craft breweries are normally found in urban areas with a market large enough to be competitive. I don't think Noxapater could support a m/c brewery.

PS: Dawgbite, you beat me to the right answers by 30 seconds!!

 

[onewoof]

REGISTERED distilleries

 

[Dawgg]

I wonder if there are a thousand ancient anti-bootlegger laws on the books in various counties throughout the state that would need to be repealed before there can be any meaningful presence in Mississippi.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

I'm too lazy to research but I would think the #50 ranking is impacted by many factors including:

1. Bible Belt
2. Low income per capita - a micro/craft brew in a tall glass is way more expensive that a 12oz can of PBR from Walmart.
3. Malt Liquor is not tyically found in a micro brewery because of high alcohol content. A large percent of the south's population prefers Colt 45.
4. Micro/craft breweries are normally found in urban areas with a market large enough to be competitive. I don't think Noxapater could support a m/c brewery.

PS: Dawgbite, you beat me to the right answers by 30 seconds!!

I think you're mostly right. It's Bible Belt and demographics.

Small vs large towns aren't the reason. Montana has breweries everywhere (92 vs 20 in MS) in their Noxapater size towns. Our population is under 4,000 in my town and we have 3 breweries.

 

[GloryDawg]

Our 4th graders may not have as many home state brew beer when they grow up, but they will now know how to read.

 

[GloryDawg]

I think you're mostly right. It's Bible Belt and demographics.

Small vs large towns aren't the reason. Montana has breweries everywhere (92 vs 20 in MS) in their Noxapater size towns. Our population is under 4,000 in my town and we have 3 breweries.

I think the Bible Belt thing is over blown in today's Mississippi. It use to be but not so much now. We have casinos and state lottery. The City of Brandon is a bible belt town in a real bible belt county, but it has given three liquor licenses to three new liquor stores. Things have change just look at our State Flag. Could you have dream that changed 10 years ago?

 

[She Mate Me]

We're also 50th or near it in most everything economic. Poor people don't buy craft beer.

And we got a much later start than most states because of the antiquated alcohol % limitations on beer, if I'm remembering right

 

[ronpolk]

I think the Bible Belt thing is over blown in today's Mississippi. It use to be but not so much now. We have casinos and state lottery. The City of Brandon is a bible belt town in a real bible belt county, but it has given three liquor licenses to three new liquor stores. Things have change just look at our State Flag. Could you have dream that changed 10 years ago?

I agree the Bible Belt is not the issue. I think it’s 2 reasons… 1) most people in MS seem to stick with bud light, Miller lite, ultra or something similar.. 2) most of the breweries I’ve tried in MS just aren’t that great. The good ones have like Lazy Magnolia and southern prohibition have managed to stay around. The exception to that in my opinion is Lucky Town. The pub ale and their October fest beer were great.

 

[InTheIttaBenaHotSun]

2) most of the breweries in MS just aren’t that great.

Yep

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

I know this is anecdotal BUT... historically when I have gone to a gathering here in North MS the beer I brought like Heineken, Modelo Negra, Guiness, Newcastle Brown Ale, Sam Adams, and anything with Octoberfest in the title was safe in the big cooler. In other parts of the country, I would bring my own cooler or I would only have 1 of what I brought.

 

[She Mate Me]

I know this is anecdotal BUT... historically when I have gone to a gathering here in North MS the beer I brought like Heineken, Modelo Negra, Guiness, Newcastle Brown Ale, Sam Adams, and anything with Octoberfest in the title was safe in the big cooler. In other parts of the country, I would bring my own cooler or I would only have 1 of what I brought.

You gotta admit Bruce, that's some heavy **** for drinking in a Mississippi summer.

 

[EagleDawg97]

It’s the laws. It’s very hard for a micro brewery to make it in MS. I knew the guy that had Slow Boat in Laurel. He had great on site sales, but the can distribution side was harder to get going. The State limits what you can sell to be drank on site as a percentage of your total sales. I know by the 20th of two consecutive months he had to close his taproom because his percentage was too high for on-site sales. We have tons of little weird laws like that, to make it hard on them.

SoPro in Hattiesburg worked a long time on distribution in the beginning so that their tap room could operate freely.

it’s a shame, as we have some very creative brewers in this state.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

It’s the laws. It’s very hard for a micro brewery to make it in MS. I knew the guy that had Slow Boat in Laurel. He had great on site sales, but the can distribution side was harder to get going. The State limits what you can sell to be drank on site as a percentage of your total sales. I know by the 20th of two consecutive months he had to close his taproom because his percentage was too high for on-site sales. We have tons of little weird laws like that, to make it hard on them.

SoPro in Hattiesburg worked a long time on distribution in the beginning so that their tap room could operate freely.

it’s a shame, as we have some very creative brewers in this state.

The state laws are horrible.

Kenny does great work and am glad that he’s brewing for The Porter in Hattiesburg.

Maybe my favorite beers he’s done are a couple special variations from when he still had Slowboat— Cherry of a Madman might be the best cherry stout I’ve ever had & then there was a blood orange gose…

But also…

A lot of craft breweries are still at the point where they’re side hustles (hustles that they love to be sure) for their owners. Folks don’t make a lot of money doing this and they’re overextending themselves by doing different things.

And then there are the craft breweries that decide to also serve food on site (their own kitchens as opposed to having food trucks). That’s ramping up the investment and that’s going in a more money losing direction typically— restaurants don’t last too long as we know.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

MS laws make it hard on breweries. Then the distribution is limited. I really liked the Laurel brewery that went out of business. Had a Hibiscus brew that was really good. Nice dark brew too.
Hattiesburg has good ones. SoPro is solid. The Porter is limited but has put out some good stuff.
SoPro has a nice set up downtown and I guess John Neal is involved still?? Hattiesburg is lucky to have The Keg and The Porter. Two of the best places in MS IMO.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Speaking of breweries, Lucky Town made some good beer, wish they'd reopen in Madison or Stankin' Rankin. Just by coincidence, I wore my Lucky Town cap yesterday, they have a great logo.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

The state laws are horrible.

Kenny does great work and am glad that he’s brewing for The Porter in Hattiesburg.

Maybe my favorite beers he’s done are a couple special variations from when he still had Slowboat— Cherry of a Madman might be the best cherry stout I’ve ever had & then there was a blood orange gose…

But also…

A lot of craft breweries are still at the point where they’re side hustles (hustles that they love to be sure) for their owners. Folks don’t make a lot of money doing this and they’re overextending themselves by doing different things.

And then there are the craft breweries that decide to also serve food on site (their own kitchens as opposed to having food trucks). That’s ramping up the investment and that’s going in a more money losing direction typically— restaurants don’t last too long as we know.

Slowboat was so good! And their setup was great! I hate MS and it's "church laws". That's what it's all about. It's about limiting alcohol. Same with liquor and its monopoly in Madison Co. Can't even order good wine online.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

It’s the laws. It’s very hard for a micro brewery to make it in MS. I knew the guy that had Slow Boat in Laurel. He had great on site sales, but the can distribution side was harder to get going. The State limits what you can sell to be drank on site as a percentage of your total sales. I know by the 20th of two consecutive months he had to close his taproom because his percentage was too high for on-site sales. We have tons of little weird laws like that, to make it hard on them.

SoPro in Hattiesburg worked a long time on distribution in the beginning so that their tap room could operate freely.

it’s a shame, as we have some very creative brewers in this state.

This is the kind of answer I was hoping for to make it all add up. Limiting a percentage of on site/off site sales is a killer to open a brewpub. It takes a long time to ramp up off premise distribution. People have to know you're brand and breweries have to find the recipes that people are going to buy.

---

@GloryDawg I would imagine the "Bible Belt" reasoning is why these stringent alcohol laws are on the books... I know it's getting better in MS, but old habits (and laws) due hard. It was barely 20 years ago we could finally buy cold beer in Starkville. And it was only 3 years since you could finally buy beer everywhere. That's old bible thumpers holding back progress. Luckily they're finally getting outnumbered by folks that understand having a beer isn't going to decay the moral fiber of society... That's what social media does.**

I think the demographics have a lot to do with why the laws aren't changing faster.

Hopefully it gets figured out. Brewpubs and microbreweries are great local businesses that put money into communities that is taken away from corporate entities that do very little for states and municipalities.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

And then there are the craft breweries that decide to also serve food on site (their own kitchens as opposed to having food trucks). That’s ramping up the investment and that’s going in a more money losing direction typically— restaurants don’t last too long as we know.

This is how the vast majority of microbreweries I go to operate... As brewpubs. It definitely requires a bigger commitment, but more so in people than capital. The brewing equipment is where the bulk of the money goes. You can get a serviceable kitchen built out for 25% or less of what they are spending on the brewing equipment.

One of my favorite brewpubs is just north of Boise ID. I used to stop in and have a beer and late lunch and started chatting with the owners. They were making beer in the garage and just didn't have the funding to go big. The ending up putting together a business plan and used a SCOR offering to sell stock shares in the business to locals for between $500 and $5000. They sold 120 shares at an average of $2500 a piece and raised $300,000 to build out a beautiful brewpub (leased building) debt free.

SCOR Offering





The investors all get a piece of the profits, a discount on their beer, and a mug on the wall. The founders can buy them out at anytime for a small percentage more than the original investment. Truly a community that built the brewpub.

 

[onewoof]

The cost and effort required to get beer that tastes 33% better... vs beer you can buy with zero effort and drastically lower cost. Hmmm tough decision

 

[The Cooterpoot]

This is how the vast majority of microbreweries I go to operate... As brewpubs. It definitely requires a bigger commitment, but more so in people than capital. The brewing equipment is where the bulk of the money goes. You can get a serviceable kitchen built out for 25% or less of what they are spending on the brewing equipment.

One of my favorite brewpubs is just north of Boise ID. I used to stop in and have a beer and late lunch and started chatting with the owners. They were making beer in the garage and just didn't have the funding to go big. The ending up putting together a business plan and used a SCOR offering to sell stock shares in the business to locals for between $500 and $5000. They sold 120 shares at an average of $2500 a piece and raised $300,000 to build out a beautiful brewpub (leased building) debt free.

SCOR Offering

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The investors all get a piece of the profits, a discount on their beer, and a mug on the wall. The founders can buy them out at anytime for a small percentage more than the original investment. Truly a community that built the brewpub.
View attachment 347200

I've looked into something similar. MS just 17's us in so many ways.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

The cost and effort required to get beer that tastes 33% better... vs beer you can buy with zero effort and drastically lower cost. Hmmm tough decision

You can get drunk much faster on a beer with almost twice the alcohol content. Cost evens out (lol). Beer is better. No need to protest either.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

The cost and effort required to get beer that tastes 33% better... vs beer you can buy with zero effort and drastically lower cost. Hmmm tough decision

^^Eats brisket at Buc-ees. Drinks Screwball. Has Hughes-net. Prefers Coleman coolers. Enjoys sitting on the berm at The Dude.***

For all intents and purposes, you fall into the demographics argument. You are not in the target demo for craft beer.

 

[onewoof]

^^Eats brisket at Buc-ees. Drinks Screwball. Has Hughes-net. Prefers Coleman coolers. Enjoys sitting on the berm at The Dude.***

For all intensive purposes, you fall into the demographics argument. You are not in the target demo for craft beer.

Craft beer drinker is mad

 

[onewoof]

You can get drunk much faster on a beer with almost twice the alcohol content. Cost evens out (lol). Beer is better. No need to protest either.

Cold beer is not that different. Unless you're in Munich. Otherwise it's just sass

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Craft beer drinker is mad

View attachment 347268

Pay attention to the board more sir... Bourbon snob is mad would be more accurate.

 

[thatsbaseball]

View attachment 347016

What gives? According to the brewers association there are only 20 micro/craft breweries in the state of Mississippi. That's dead last in total and per capita. Is this because of legal issues, demand, or just a lack of enterprising entrepreneurs?

Looking at the color board there seems to be a Bible Belt thing going on the matter.

This is kinda long but I think you'll get the general drift after a paragraph or two

Drunk on power: Booze distributors ply statehouses to keep profits flowing

Rhinegeist Brewery invested $250,000 in trucks and employees to bring its beers into Kentucky, just a few miles from its fledgling brewery in downtown Cincinnati. Sales boomed in the “thirsty” Kentucky market, said brewery co-founder Bryant Goulding. But in March, just three months after the...

publicintegrity.org

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Cold beer is not that different. Unless you're in Munich. Otherwise it's just sass

No, it's really not. I have noticed rednecks like to drink bad beer though. Hipsters pretend to like bad craft beer (but can drink the **** out some fancy coffee).
I'll try any beer. Good, bad, whatever. Unless there's a tranny on the can.

 

[WilCoDawg]

If I’m looking at the map correctly, the Bible Belt effect doesn’t play here. Look at the other states that aren’t a shade of blue. There’s a lot that are considered anywhere near “Bible Belt“ material. I submit CA as exhibit A. Then look at IL and the NE states.

 

[Dawgbite]

Years ago me and some buddies went to St Louis for a Cardinals game. We did the last tour of the day at the Brewery downtown, saw the Clydesdales, the whole bit. The last part of the tour was beer tastings. They had 5-6 different beers on tap the we could try, one of which was King Cobra Malt Liquor. The rest of the tour tried a few beers and wandered off , we were drinking free beer. About 4:15 we were the only four left so the bartender said that he was leaving but they didn’t lock the doors til 5:30 and to help ours Wasn’t long til every keg but the King Cobra was empty so we set in on it and finished it up before 5:30. We staggered to Hooters but there was no way we were getting a table in time for the game so my buddy ordered 50 wings to go. We get in a crowd going in the gate and get 50 Hooters wings into Busch Stadium. Seats on the rail on the third base line, 50 Hooters wings, and fresh beer, it doesnot get much better that…………until my drunk buddy started throwing chicken bones on the field. Security actually warned us before they threw us out of the stadium.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

If I’m looking at the map correctly, the Bible Belt effect doesn’t play here. Look at the other states that aren’t a shade of blue. There’s a lot that are considered anywhere near “Bible Belt“ material. I submit CA as exhibit A. Then look at IL and the NE states.

Yeah I wouldn't go that far. The bottom 6 States are the heart of the bible belt plus Utah. These states have probably been a lot slower than most at removing regressive alcohol laws from the books. Utah just has half the population that won't drink at all.

The reason NY NJ, CA, and IL are middle of the pack probably has a lot to do with how much of their populations are in mega cities where its really hard to find/afford the space for microbreweries. That and the competition from crack.**

Nevada is interesting, but I think 95% of their population is in LV and Reno and I can't imagine those cities having a big brewpub scene, or at least not without someone getting whacked for taking business from the casinos and strip clubs.




The correlation is very high. The bottom 16 is made up of 12 bible belt states plus HI, NJ, NV, and Utah. The only outliers in the bible belt are NC, VA, and MO... Not exactly surprising those three would be the ones either.

 

[WilCoDawg]

Yeah I wouldn't go that far. The bottom 6 States are the heart of the bible belt plus Utah. These states have probably been a lot slower than most at removing regressive alcohol laws from the books. Utah just has half the population that won't drink at all.

The reason NY NJ, CA, and IL are middle of the pack probably has a lot to do with how much of their populations are in mega cities where its really hard to find/afford the space for microbreweries. That and the competition from crack.**

Nevada is interesting, but I think 95% of their population is in LV and Reno and I can't imagine those cities having a big brewpub scene, or at least not without someone getting whacked for taking business from the casinos and strip clubs.
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The correlation is very high. The bottom 16 is made up of 12 bible belt states plus HI, NJ, NV, and Utah. The only outliers in the bible belt are NC, VA, and MO... Not exactly surprising those three would be the ones either.

You’re trying to fit a square peg in a round hole with your argument. You completely ignore the other non-BB states that aren’t bluish. But whatever. I’ve spent more time on this topic than I should. Have a good one.

 

[onewoof]

Hold on please while I ask this dog where to get the best craft IPA

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

.I’ve spent more time on this topic than I should. Have a good one.

Good idea. I don't think you understand that the shading on the map is just a form of grouping 5 states per color. They can't all be "blueish". If you don't see the correlation, so be it. Stands out like Margot Robbie in a room full of women's Olympic shot putters to me though.

Full Article

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Hold on please while I ask this dog where to get the best craft IPA

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Touché. And this one says you can find @onewoof closing down Applebee's drinking Bud Light every Tuesday.

 

[Perd Hapley]

I think the Bible Belt thing is over blown in today's Mississippi. It use to be but not so much now. We have casinos and state lottery. The City of Brandon is a bible belt town in a real bible belt county, but it has given three liquor licenses to three new liquor stores. Things have change just look at our State Flag. Could you have dream that changed 10 years ago?

It is most certainly not overblown. Its 2023, and you still can’t even BUY beer (let alone make it) in almost half the state….36 of 82 counties are still dry.

Seriously, who’s gonna sign up to assume all the PITA risks and responsibilities of a new small business (start up costs, hiring / training, likely footing the bill for 100% of their health insurance, etc.) in a location where you have to eliminate 44% of the market right off the bat, eliminate another half of what’s left even in wet counties due to ideological reasons, and then eliminate 60-70% of what’s left after that because they have neither the money nor the pallette to enjoy the finer points of craft beer. All in a state with an extremely unwelcoming environment for all business (big and small), even those with no Bible belt bug-a-boo’s.

As usual, Mississippi is 50th in a metric, and again as usual….the only surprising thing about it is that they aren’t somehow 51st.

 

[KentuckyDawg13]

Mississippi had some decent breweries on the coast last time I was down there. Gulfport and O.S.

Here in Louisville, KY, we have over 20 breweries just in town. Many with food options.

North Carolina and Virginia are two Southern states negating the bible belt theory.

 

[GloryDawg]

It is most certainly not overblown. Its 2023, and you still can’t even BUY beer (let alone make it) in almost half the state….36 of 82 counties are still dry.

Seriously, who’s gonna sign up to assume all the PITA risks and responsibilities of a new small business (start up costs, hiring / training, likely footing the bill for 100% of their health insurance, etc.) in a location where you have to eliminate 44% of the market right off the bat, eliminate another half of what’s left even in wet counties due to ideological reasons, and then eliminate 60-70% of what’s left after that because they have neither the money nor the pallette to enjoy the finer points of craft beer. All in a state with an extremely unwelcoming environment for all business (big and small), even those with no Bible belt bug-a-boo’s.

As usual, Mississippi is 50th in a metric, and again as usual….the only surprising thing about it is that they aren’t somehow 51st.

Okay. I hope you feel better typing that long post that was too long to read.