OT: Not going into a lot of details about this

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

But a student at my kid's school committed suicide this morning. He is my daughter's age and had a sibling in my son's class. I don't even want to envision the pain his family is in. If you have children, listen to them when they say things are bothering. I know, in the past, I have been guilty of telling my kids they don't know what stress is, but it is very real to them and it's only made worse when their parents dismiss their issues. So try your best to make time to listen to your kids when they talk to you about things.

 

[patdog]

Man, that's awful. It's tough being a kid sometimes. Other kids can be mean and you think everything that happens is the most important thing in the world. I look back at a lot of things that were said and done to me, and I said and did to other kids, and just think what a bunch of idiot ***holes we could be back then.

 

[TrapGame.sixpack]

My brother in law took his own life. I have never felt as hollow and lost as I did through that ordeal. It shook me to my core. I would never wish that pain and hopelessness on anyone.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Suicides are almost becoming far too common, not just in young people. I don't know what can be done about it (especially in adults) as we can't make people, in most circumstances get mental health.

 

[dawgstudent]

Man, that's awful. It's tough being a kid sometimes. Other kids can be mean and you think everything that happens is the most important thing in the world. I look back at a lot of things that were said and done to me, and I said and did to other kids, and just think what a bunch of idiot ***holes we could be back then.

The biggest problem as we all know is social media. You being an ******* to other kids - although not great - was contained to that one instance. He didn't have to go on social media and see pictures of something that he wasn't invited to or having another avenue to be harassed. It sucks for the kids these days.

 

[Seinfeld]

But a student at my kid's school committed suicide this morning. He is my daughter's age and had a sibling in my son's class. I don't even want to envision the pain his family is in. If you have children, listen to them when they say things are bothering. I know, in the past, I have been guilty of telling my kids they don't know what stress is, but it is very real to them and it's only made worse when their parents dismiss their issues. So try your best to make time to listen to your kids when they talk to you about things.

Man, that’s awful. There aren’t too many things these days that completely shake me up, but hearing about something like this is one of them. The sheer thought of hopelessness existing for a kid this young is heart breaking, and I’m sure that the devastation that the family is going through is indescribable.

From a personal standpoint, I feel like my wife and I try our best to be involved and praise our kids, but I also know that I have moments when I’m essentially telling them to just go away, and there are plenty of ways for me to do better. It can also be really difficult when dealing with a kid that’s a considerable introvert.

My heart goes out to the parents, and as parents, it’s impossible to be expected to just “fix” everything. But you said it as well as anyone can say it. Be aware, be involved, and just keep doing the best you can to help or seek help

 

[patdog]

The biggest problem as we all know is social media. You being an ******* to other kids - although not great - was contained to that one instance. He didn't have to go on social media and see pictures of something that he wasn't invited to or having another avenue to be harassed. It sucks for the kids these days.

Very good point. It's got to be tougher on kids today. And more of them aren't getting as good parental support as many of us got back when I was growing up.

 

[maroonmadman]

In the past year I've had two people I know take their own lives. Both were, by all outward appearances, normal, happy folks. No outward signs of anything wrong. I'm still reeling from these events. I guess no one knows you like you. If you are feeling unwell it is okay to speak up and confide in someone and if someone does don't be a jackass, be compassionate.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

The biggest problem as we all know is social media. You being an ******* to other kids - although not great - was contained to that one instance. He didn't have to go on social media and see pictures of something that he wasn't invited to or having another avenue to be harassed. It sucks for the kids these days.

Definitely worse now because it is constant. I can remember hearing in school on Mondays at times about weekend things that groups did that I never got invited to, but I didn't see pictures in real time of said event and deal with the fact that I was at home. Middle/high school self perception is way off from reality as well. I ran into an old classmate recently and we were talking about some high school days and he said, "Yeah, but you were popular." I was like, no I wasn't, but his perception was that I was. Odd...

 

[horshack.sixpack]

One other thought. I temper my responses on this board and try to never call names. We are all pretty thick skinned and normally take this board for what it is, good natured banter, but I'm never certain what is actually going on with the person behind the login and I certainly don't want to contribute to any negative things already happening in their life. In short, if you met me in person, I hope that you would find that I speak and behave just like I do on here and that I treat people well.

 

[Dawg1976]

Terrible. High school age?

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Just terrible and it’s the worst feeling of sadness. My nephew committed suicide in August of 2020 and I don’t think my brother in law will ever be the same again.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

My boss's mid 20 year old son committed suicide. He was good looking, successful, popular and had to push off women. He had a substance abuse problem though and had relapsed just before the act. I'm assuming the guilt led him to it. I've always wondered if the treatment for addiction (100% abstinence) was the best for everyone. I'd rather have him addicted than dead, so what if he relapsed every few weeks? I wonder if there is too much pressure in long term sobriety?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

The biggest problem as we all know is social media. You being an ******* to other kids - although not great - was contained to that one instance. He didn't have to go on social media and see pictures of something that he wasn't invited to or having another avenue to be harassed. It sucks for the kids these days.

Yup. And all these kids having smart phones so they can constantly check their social media among other things. Please don’t give your kid a smart phone.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Eighteen has been the smart phone age for our children. We caught and are catching a lot of hell for it. (It might end up being 21 for my youngest.)
But, we've read enough to know that their minds and spirits are not as equipped to deal with the mess it can cause. It's hard enough for old folks like me.
But with or without smart phones, life seems a lot tougher now, especially for children... much tougher than I ever remember it being.
May God keep and protect his family and friends and grant them peace.

 

[MSUDAWGFAN]

First off, my sincerest condolences to the parents, friends, and family members of the person involved. I cannot imagine what they are going through as a parent.

Also, I'd like to point out to people who may be questioning how the parents didn't catch on to something being wrong with their child - many times there are no signs,, or if there are the signs are very subtle.

When I was a junior in high school, there was a boy in my history class that committed suicide. Hos mom was an English teacher at the school and he had called the guy that sat behind him that night to ask what chapters were on the test. The next morning, his mom went to wake him up and he didn't get up. She went back in the room 10 minutes later when he still wasn't up and saw he had taken his own life. We heard there was a note, but we never heard what was in it. Obviously, his mom never knew anything was bothering him to the point that he would take his own life. We never had any idea about that either.

There is a show on Netflilx called "13 Reasons Why" about a girl who ends up taking her own life. In season 2, it points out that the parents had no idea that anything was bothering their daughter. Believe it or not, this is the case for most cases like this.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that while some people say that someone taking their own life is "greedy" or something similar, nothing could be further from the truth in the person's mind who did it. Most of the time, these people think they are going to relieve their close ones from having to take care of them/be around them/etc. and think of themselves as nothing but a burden to those around them. Please don't diminish that by saying it's "selfish" because it certainly isn't. When that is the case, it isn't selfish, but there is a huge misunderstanding about where that person falls into other people's priorities.

Again, my condolences to the person's family and friends.

 

[Uncle Ruckus]

But a student at my kid's school committed suicide this morning. He is my daughter's age and had a sibling in my son's class. I don't even want to envision the pain his family is in. If you have children, listen to them when they say things are bothering. I know, in the past, I have been guilty of telling my kids they don't know what stress is, but it is very real to them and it's only made worse when their parents dismiss their issues. So try your best to make time to listen to your kids when they talk to you about things.

A school that I coached at had four kids in one grade that committed suicide. Four in one grade. I knew one of them very well. Had them multiple times and had them in my room the day they did it. Completely blindsided. It's something I will never understand.

 

[cowbell88]

Eighteen has been the smart phone age for our children. We caught and are catching a lot of hell for it. (It might end up being 21 for my youngest.)
But, we've read enough to know that their minds and spirits are not as equipped to deal with the mess it can cause. It's hard enough for old folks like me.
But with or without smart phones, life seems a lot tougher now, especially for children... much tougher than I ever remember it being.
May God keep and protect his family and friends and grant them peace.

12 was ours discussed and agreed upon age. Then when Ulvade happened, we agreed that him not being able to contact us in an emergency would be so much worse on us. Now, they have to leave phones in homeroom all day, so the emergency contact thing is moot point.

I’m sure we do need to make more restrictions though. He has no social accounts, but loves him some you tube kids.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

12 was ours discussed and agreed upon age. Then when Ulvade happened, we agreed that him not being able to contact us in an emergency would be so much worse on us. Now, they have to leave phones in homeroom all day, so the emergency contact thing is moot point.

I’m sure we do need to make more restrictions though. He has no social accounts, but loves him some you tube kids.

It's often hard to know what's best and how to manage it. I didn't mean to suggest we know what we're doing. It's a struggle. We try to stay engaged with our children without suffocating them, making sure they know we're always available to talk with them or just be present when they need you... it is a struggle to find that balance.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

But a student at my kid's school committed suicide this morning. He is my daughter's age and had a sibling in my son's class. I don't even want to envision the pain his family is in. If you have children, listen to them when they say things are bothering. I know, in the past, I have been guilty of telling my kids they don't know what stress is, but it is very real to them and it's only made worse when their parents dismiss their issues. So try your best to make time to listen to your kids when they talk to you about things.

My stepbrother committed suicide when he was 15 and I was 9. Screw selfish ******** that commit suicide.
For the record, every thing you said is 100% correct. Listen to what your kids are saying to you. Sometimes, their stressors are legit, even if you don't think they are. Kids do not have the life experience to accurately discuss their issues or understand that in the grand scheme of things, their stressors are pretty minor.

 

[johnson86-1]

Yup. And all these kids having smart phones so they can constantly check their social media among other things. Please don’t give your kid a smart phone.

I wish I could give this 1,000 likes. I really loathe social media the way people use it. I have adult friends that are successful and have a good friend group. And are fortunate to have an extended friend group that is large. But social media has these people constantly worried that they are purposefully left out when the reality is, the group is too big for everybody to be included in everything, and most of the time it's not people picking one couple over another, but something random dictating who is included like who they see at the grocery store or whose kids had a practice or game together earlier in the day. But these successful and well adjusted grownups who are struggling because of seeing things on social media turn around and give their adolescent kids smart phones and social media and just throw them to the wolves.

And I really loathe the mothers that are living vicariously through their children (typically daughters) and clearly relish the opportunity to post something showing their kid included in things that other kids are left out of.

 

[mstateglfr]

A kid that recently came into our family is at college as a freshman right now. She is extremely driven, wickedly funny, smart as anyone Ive known at that age, and has all the signs of someone that puts too much pressure on themselves. In her case, her dad hung himself when she was 12 and she has pushed hard to get thru the chaos that he created for her family.
Earlier this semester she called because she was alone and had done something dumb to herself. She was fine, but it scared her a ton. We have doubled up on talking, especially facetime, and pushed for some changes to help keep it from happening again.



- mental health is no different from physical health. 17 everyone that views mental issues as weakness. It is no longer acceptable to laugh at the kid in the wheelchair with a physical limitation and I look forward to the point where mental health is not seen any differently.
People have allergies, cancer, autoimmune diseases- well depression, anxiety, etc are no different and need to be seen as no different. You dont make fun of or think less of people with Celiac or MS, so dont make fun of or think less of someone with anxiety or depression.

- Its popular to be all 'I side with mental health' as a hollow claim. Its much more difficult to not judge the coworker or athlete who isnt able to work and cites mental health as the reason. Keep that in mind because there are a 17 ton of examples of this on the board thru the years. Rememberku.

- Talking with kids is obviously important. Straight up ask them direct ****. Dont avoid tough subjects. Nothing is off the table because a lot of times they wont bring up the tough topics. Have access to their social media. Its social- its inherently not private so any claim of 'its my privacy' is total ********. Work with kids to help them learn healthy technology habits. This stuff isnt going away.

 

[mstateglfr]

Yup. And all these kids having smart phones so they can constantly check their social media among other things. Please don’t give your kid a smart phone.

Tech and social media isnt going away. Teaching them to use a phone and social media responsibly is, to us, better than avoiding. Abstinence is only possible or realistic for so long, and it then leaves the person without the developmental skills to handle it once they finally do have social media.
Also, a kid can have a smart phone without social media. My 6th grader has an iphone and no social media accounts.

I fully understand the desire to not have any social media for kids. We finally let our 10th grader get instagram- actually we had said it was fine almost a year ago and she only chose to get it over the summer. She is odd. Anyways, she knows it isnt private and that we can look at it with her. That isnt a threat, its a way people learn how to use tools and social media is a tool(in more than one definition). Talking about realistic vs unrealistic body images on IG and how influencers come up with the pics, for example, is educational and it helps remove some of the mystery and misunderstanding on the teen's end.

Genuinely though- every family needs to do what works best for them. I wouldnt think twice if my kid said a friend doesnt have a smartphone. In the moment, I would probably think thats good.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Raising kids is difficult because they are all different and change throughout their lives. For some not giving a kid a smartphone until 18 works, for others it may be the worst thing you could do. We just never know, it's a "by the seat of your pants" proposition. Do what you think is best and try to keep the lines of communication open.

You can only do the best you can do. Before I had kids I thought it was nurture over nature, 23 years later, I'm not convinced of that.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

A kid that recently came into our family is at college as a freshman right now. She is extremely driven, wickedly funny, smart as anyone Ive known at that age, and has all the signs of someone that puts too much pressure on themselves. In her case, her dad hung himself when she was 12 and she has pushed hard to get thru the chaos that he created for her family.
Earlier this semester she called because she was alone and had done something dumb to herself. She was fine, but it scared her a ton. We have doubled up on talking, especially facetime, and pushed for some changes to help keep it from happening again.



- mental health is no different from physical health. 17 everyone that views mental issues as weakness. It is no longer acceptable to laugh at the kid in the wheelchair with a physical limitation and I look forward to the point where mental health is not seen any differently.
People have allergies, cancer, autoimmune diseases- well depression, anxiety, etc are no different and need to be seen as no different. You dont make fun of or think less of people with Celiac or MS, so dont make fun of or think less of someone with anxiety or depression.

- Its popular to be all 'I side with mental health' as a hollow claim. Its much more difficult to not judge the coworker or athlete who isnt able to work and cites mental health as the reason. Keep that in mind because there are a 17 ton of examples of this on the board thru the years. Rememberku.

- Talking with kids is obviously important. Straight up ask them direct ****. Dont avoid tough subjects. Nothing is off the table because a lot of times they wont bring up the tough topics. Have access to their social media. Its social- its inherently not private so any claim of 'its my privacy' is total ********. Work with kids to help them learn healthy technology habits. This stuff isnt going away.

The brain is an organ. If it is not healthy, it needs to be treated, just like any other organ. I can't imagine anyone with failed kidneys not taking dialysis because of stigma. One key difference, is the person needs to be at least well enough to take treatment and refusal to take meds is sometimes because of stigma, but often an obstinance that comes from the initial mental condition. It can be a really tough problem to tackle even when family members do know there's an issue and are engaged.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Raising kids is difficult because they are all different and change throughout their lives. For some not giving a kid a smartphone until 18 works, for others it may be the worst thing you could do. We just never know, it's a "by the seat of your pants" proposition. Do what you think is best and try to keep the lines of communication action.

You can only do the best you can do. Before I had kids I thought it was nurture over nature, 23 years later, I'm not convinced of that.

Agree. I've somehow raised 3 to be, so far, contributing members of society that I don't think that I completely ruined. Here is my parenting advice:

 

[Fang1]

Yup. And all these kids having smart phones so they can constantly check their social media among other things. Please don’t give your kid a smart phone.

We held out till the girls turned 13 - and it was never the same after that. They go into their own world that they make. Sure it helped with ‘connectivity’ for after school activities, sports, etc., but I wasn’t prepared for the drama and problems associated with social media. They were among the last in their class to get one too…..

 

[57stratdawg]

A lot of kids today aren’t able to get away from bullys when they go home because of their phone.

Gotta be tough.

 

[Ghostman]

Love your kids well. Make sure they know they are loved by what you say AND what you do.

Have difficult discussions about uncomfortable topics. Speak truth in love.

Make sure that they know that they can tell you anything and that you are always on their side, especially when it doesn't feel that way to them.

Teach them forgiveness. That provides peace much moreso than anger or revenge.

Spend lots of time with them (more than they may want).

Be experts in their strengths and encourage and provide compliments often.

Mine know that my life is so much better because they are in it.

 

[dorndawg]

First off, my sincerest condolences to the parents, friends, and family members of the person involved. I cannot imagine what they are going through as a parent.

Also, I'd like to point out to people who may be questioning how the parents didn't catch on to something being wrong with their child - many times there are no signs,, or if there are the signs are very subtle.

When I was a junior in high school, there was a boy in my history class that committed suicide. Hos mom was an English teacher at the school and he had called the guy that sat behind him that night to ask what chapters were on the test. The next morning, his mom went to wake him up and he didn't get up. She went back in the room 10 minutes later when he still wasn't up and saw he had taken his own life. We heard there was a note, but we never heard what was in it. Obviously, his mom never knew anything was bothering him to the point that he would take his own life. We never had any idea about that either.

There is a show on Netflilx called "13 Reasons Why" about a girl who ends up taking her own life. In season 2, it points out that the parents had no idea that anything was bothering their daughter. Believe it or not, this is the case for most cases like this.

Lastly, I'd like to point out that while some people say that someone taking their own life is "greedy" or something similar, nothing could be further from the truth in the person's mind who did it. Most of the time, these people think they are going to relieve their close ones from having to take care of them/be around them/etc. and think of themselves as nothing but a burden to those around them. Please don't diminish that by saying it's "selfish" because it certainly isn't. When that is the case, it isn't selfish, but there is a huge misunderstanding about where that person falls into other people's priorities.

Again, my condolences to the person's family and friends.

Your post reminded me of an article from some months ago. One thing that stood out from it was, while yes sometimes there are no signs, in other cases the idea of your child dying from suicide is literally unthinkable for parents so signs are categorized some other way. Which , I get - I can't imagine that pain either.

The Mystifying Rise of Child Suicide

A family tragedy sheds light on a burgeoning mental-health emergency.

www.newyorker.com

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

You know I read this and think to myself all the things that me and Mrs. Morningstar are going to have to look out for. We are some of those people that waited till our mid 30's to have kids with the idea being well I want to get this business up and going or I want to work on this degree. Well between the 2 of us now we have five college degrees and a successful business along with a bouncing 8th month old girl. I was also one of those people that rolled my eyes when parents would talk about all the cute things their kids would do until I had one.

Now I do not want to be ten feet from her if I can avoid it. I watch her smile and it melts my heart along with her obsession with having daddy hold her and tote around anywhere we go. I said all that to say this, I never want my daughter to feel like there is something she can not talk to me about. To me what seems to be the consistent thread among this teenage suicides these days is just lack of parental and child communication on a real and genuine level. Now that is not to say it is the parents fault, I am just trying to find a common reason between most of these stories. To me communication seems to be it. I can not imagine the pain that family is experiencing I have had my daughter for 8 months, but I know I would be lost without her so even the devil has a heart and it goes out to that grieving family.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

At what point to we address the idea that 'school', in the way it is currently set up in the United States, may not be the best option for our kids' development?

You may ask, what's the other option(s)? One, homeschool, if you can handle being a one-income family. If not, a good private school if both parents insist on working (since you'll likely have the additional income). But even the private schools try to closely mimic the public schools in the way they lump all the same age groups together, spend all this time in a classroom, etc.

It's so interwoven in our society that no one wants to think outside that box. I know that bad things can happen in other areas outside 'school', but I think we'd all agree that 'school' is where 80% of these interactions are happening with other kids. Is it truly necessary?

I have no idea what happened with the child in this thread, so I'm not assuming anything there. Just talking abstractly.

 

[mstateglfr]

Oh look, Goat forced his ad naus homeschool and private school agenda into a conversation.

 

[Lucifer Morningstar]

Oh look, Goat forced his ad naus homeschool and private school agenda into a conversation.

Let the battle begin.

 

[AssEndDawg]

When my kids were really young I read something that told me to ask them each, everyday after school, "tell me one good thing and one bad thing that happened today". It has been a part of their lives since they were in kindergarten and for some reason it just works. It's the best thing I have ever done for my kids and has allowed me to handle things going on in their lives. Sometimes it is just a word of encouragement, sometimes I can give advice, a few times I have had to intervene and go to the school or another parent. But, it gives me information I don't think I would have gotten any other way. My daughter now reminds me if I forget to ask (she is in high school).

If you have kids I highly recommend this.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

View attachment 272373
Let the battle begin.

'sup, Luc?

Alas, there's no devil eating popcorn gif.

 

[johnson86-1]

Oh look, Goat forced his ad naus homeschool and private school agenda into a conversation.

God forbid we make it easier for parents to take the needs of their child into account when trying to figure out the best way to educate them. Parents really need to be stuck with one option unless they are affluent enough to pay for private school or move to change schools.

 

[johnson86-1]

When my kids were really young I read something that told me to ask them each, everyday after school, "tell me one good thing and one bad thing that happened today". It has been a part of their lives since they were in kindergarten and for some reason it just works. It's the best thing I have ever done for my kids and has allowed me to handle things going on in their lives. Sometimes it is just a word of encouragement, sometimes I can give advice, a few times I have had to intervene and go to the school or another parent. But, it gives me information I don't think I would have gotten any other way. My daughter now reminds me if I forget to ask (she is in high school).

If you have kids I highly recommend this.

Something very similar one of our kid's teacher suggested was a "game" called I think "Funny, Sad, Mad, Glad" or something like that. Basically just an expansion on the questions you asked. "Tell me one thing that happened that made you laugh today?" "Tell me one thing that made you Sad; mad; glad." Can ask them all of them when they're talkative, or tell them to pick one if they're not, or specify which one if there is something you think might be going on that you particularly want them to talk about. Also gave a link that had dozens of variations of questions that taken together were all basically "how was your day" but the thought being that asking specific questions in different ways would stop them from treating it as a perfunctory "how was your day?", "it was fine" exchange.

 

[DerHntr]

But a student at my kid's school committed suicide this morning. He is my daughter's age and had a sibling in my son's class. I don't even want to envision the pain his family is in. If you have children, listen to them when they say things are bothering. I know, in the past, I have been guilty of telling my kids they don't know what stress is, but it is very real to them and it's only made worse when their parents dismiss their issues. So try your best to make time to listen to your kids when they talk to you about things.

Sadly one of my best friends had his 16 year old do the same before thanksgiving last year. Including his son, I have personally known 6 people who did this in 21/22. Several of those I knew very well. I keep asking what the hell is going on. I have a few reasons/thoughts:

1. social media is a major contributor as DS pointed out

2. Insane levels of hatred in our political parties where each of them say the world is coming to an end when the other is in office

3. The pandemic getting people to think the world in fact is coming to an end

4. Riots and such in 20/21 getting people to think the world is coming to an end

5. The internet enabling people to easily lose real human connections with others

 

[johnson86-1]

Sadly one of my best friends had his 16 year old do the same before thanksgiving last year. Including his son, I have personally known 6 people who did this in 21/22. Severs of those I knew very well. I keep asking what the hell is going on. I have a few reasons/thoughts:

1. social media is a major contributor as DS pointed out

2. Insane levels of hatred in our political parties where each of them say the world is coming to an end when the other is in office

3. The pandemic getting people to think the world in fact is coming to an end

4. Riots and such in 20/21 getting people to think the world is coming to an end

5. The internet enabling people to easily lose real human connections with others

All those seem like plausible contributions to any rise.

I would add a lack of faith in any higher being to these causes. Faith certainly isn't a cure-all because, but for a lot of people, seeing themselves as just the result of a giant fluke rather than part of something that has a higher meaning is going to make it a little easier (and more rational to them) to give up because things are hard.