OT: November 22, 1963
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How about you read the Warren Commission report? The entire thing? The factual report? Of course you didn't. I have. Case Closed? I have. You? Of course not. Talk about being in a bubble. I've read and watched them all. You just pick the stuff that made people money.
The bullet hit two ribs and the bone in the wrist.
Not a doctor or ballistics expert but it seems to me that that may cause some damage to the bullet.
Read most of the Warren report, and Case Closed. Unfortunately, the Warren Commission, like the Jan 6 committee, had a foregone conclusion and excluded evidence. I have not said anything more than Donahue’s theory is compelling and based on good science, like size and nature of bullets and trajectories.
You read all 26 volumes of the Warren Commission Report??
If you did you're satisfied that they answered all questions and investigated this thoroughly?
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That seemed reasonable to me as well. But the experts on this say it is entirely plausible. Actually, the bullet was flattened to a degree.
Not Kennedys ribs or wrist, right? It passed through soft tissue first. Which slowed the bullet down which by the time it finished, it fell out of the shallow wound. It also wasn't pristine as many try to say. The bullet was damaged but intact. In fact it was nearly flattened at the base.
Yes. Took months. Totally infatuated as a young teenager. Read everything published. Bought too many books that wasted my money and time. And the 26 volume was sold as 1 big fat heavy book.
Please apply your vast expertise to debunk this:
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“Donahue’s second ballistic proof was equally telling. The performance of the fatal bullet was entirely inconsistent with the type of ammunition Oswald fired. The 6.5 millimeter military round used in the Model 91/38 Carcano carbine is encased in a heavy copper jacket and is specifically designed not to fragment. Per the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, the full metal jacket allows the round’s solid lead core to remain intact and pass more or less cleanly through the human body without causing devastating tissue damage. The idea is to ensure a more “humane” means for wounding or killing the enemy in battle, and the Carcano bullet that struck both Kennedy and Gov. Connally bore this out. The round pierced two men and caused multiple wounds, yet emerged unbroken.
The bullet that struck Kennedy in the head, on the other hand, shattered on impact and sprayed a blizzard of tiny, lead-and-copper fragments throughout the brain and across the inner table of the skull, according to post-mortem X-rays and the autopsy examination. This type of explosive fragmentation was extremely unlikely with Oswald’s solid Carcano bullet.
The fatal bullet’s performance was, however, completely consistent with the .223 round fired from the AR15, the predecessor of the M16 rifle issued to American infantrymen during the Vietnam War. Although the .223 incorporated a full metal jacket to comply with Hague Convention mandates, the design was essentially a work-around to ensure maximum lethality in combat. An extremely thin copper jacket, coupled with the bullet’s light weight and the AR15’s high velocity, causes the round to tumble and rupture upon impact. The lead, which has softened beneath the jacket due to the bullet’s friction with the gun barrel and the air, cascades out in a random pattern of spherical fragments, which quickly solidify as they strike much cooler bodily fluids and tissue. The copper jacket also breaks up, and the combined result is a devastating, shredding and frequently lethal wound characterized by multiple, minute shards and irregular fragments — exactly like the injury Kennedy suffered.”
What evidence was excluded? And you got the info from?? And conspiracy book right?
And my second question? You're satisfied with the results? As I mentioned before Commission members weren't satisfied.
H
“Donahue’s second ballistic proof was equally telling. The performance of the fatal bullet was entirely inconsistent with the type of ammunition Oswald fired. The 6.5 millimeter military round used in the Model 91/38 Carcano carbine is encased in a heavy copper jacket and is specifically designed not to fragment. Per the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, the full metal jacket allows the round’s solid lead core to remain intact and pass more or less cleanly through the human body without causing devastating tissue damage. The idea is to ensure a more “humane” means for wounding or killing the enemy in battle, and the Carcano bullet that struck both Kennedy and Gov. Connally bore this out. The round pierced two men and caused multiple wounds, yet emerged unbroken.
The bullet that struck Kennedy in the head, on the other hand, shattered on impact and sprayed a blizzard of tiny, lead-and-copper fragments throughout the brain and across the inner table of the skull, according to post-mortem X-rays and the autopsy examination. This type of explosive fragmentation was extremely unlikely with Oswald’s solid Carcano bullet.
The fatal bullet’s performance was, however, completely consistent with the .223 round fired from the AR15, the predecessor of the M16 rifle issued to American infantrymen during the Vietnam War. Although the .223 incorporated a full metal jacket to comply with Hague Convention mandates, the design was essentially a work-around to ensure maximum lethality in combat. An extremely thin copper jacket, coupled with the bullet’s light weight and the AR15’s high velocity, causes the round to tumble and rupture upon impact. The lead, which has softened beneath the jacket due to the bullet’s friction with the gun barrel and the air, cascades out in a random pattern of spherical fragments, which quickly solidify as they strike much cooler bodily fluids and tissue. The copper jacket also breaks up, and the combined result is a devastating, shredding and frequently lethal wound characterized by multiple, minute shards and irregular fragments — exactly like the injury Kennedy suffered.”
Here is from the article I posted:
“Donahue’s second ballistic proof was equally telling. The performance of the fatal bullet was entirely inconsistent with the type of ammunition Oswald fired. The 6.5 millimeter military round used in the Model 91/38 Carcano carbine is encased in a heavy copper jacket and is specifically designed not to fragment. Per the Hague Conventions of 1899 and 1907, the full metal jacket allows the round’s solid lead core to remain intact and pass more or less cleanly through the human body without causing devastating tissue damage. The idea is to ensure a more “humane” means for wounding or killing the enemy in battle, and the Carcano bullet that struck both Kennedy and Gov. Connally bore this out. The round pierced two men and caused multiple wounds, yet emerged unbroken.
The bullet that struck Kennedy in the head, on the other hand, shattered on impact and sprayed a blizzard of tiny, lead-and-copper fragments throughout the brain and across the inner table of the skull, according to post-mortem X-rays and the autopsy examination. This type of explosive fragmentation was extremely unlikely with Oswald’s solid Carcano bullet.
The fatal bullet’s performance was, however, completely consistent with the .223 round fired from the AR15, the predecessor of the M16 rifle issued to American infantrymen during the Vietnam War. Although the .223 incorporated a full metal jacket to comply with Hague Convention mandates, the design was essentially a work-around to ensure maximum lethality in combat. An extremely thin copper jacket, coupled with the bullet’s light weight and the AR15’s high velocity, causes the round to tumble and rupture upon impact. The lead, which has softened beneath the jacket due to the bullet’s friction with the gun barrel and the air, cascades out in a random pattern of spherical fragments, which quickly solidify as they strike much cooler bodily fluids and tissue. The copper jacket also breaks up, and the combined result is a devastating, shredding and frequently lethal wound characterized by multiple, minute shards and irregular fragments — exactly like the injury Kennedy suffered.”
Guarantee I find that before you can credibly provide expertise that debunks Donahue’s specifics.
I was not completely satisfied but way more satisfied by the crap written in the 70s and 80s. Some did a lot of homework but to get their theory to work that's where it fell apart. The mob involved books were the worst. If the mob was involved America would have know the next morning. The mob, who pledged secrecy rarely would keep secrets.
Go ahead. Of all the experts in the world you pick an admitted beer drunk in the crap you posted. Have fun.
Hide behind it? Read the article again. I didn't make it up.
I'm not going through thousands of stupid questions from you that already available for you to find out. But the biggest issue is your faith is on one dude in Baltimore who was not part of the investigation and a bullet going in on angle will be bigger than one going straight in. Go get a beer from his fridge (from your article) and take the aluminum foil hat off.
I agree that 90% of the conspiracy people are full of crap. The storm drain theory, Woody Harrelson's dad and the Secret Service accidently shooting the president are all garbage. But what do you think of people who were on this from day 1? People like Mark Lane, David Lifton and Robert Grodon?
David Lifton wasn't at first but he realized getting interviews after the Warren Commission report came out and was criticized he found his gold mine. Day 1 started not after the 11/22/63 but after the Warren Report.
No substance??You read comic books. I read the Warren Commission report.
Here is an issue I have with the Warren Commission. They seemed to pick and choose witnesses that would fit their narrative.
Here's an example. Bill and Gayle Newman were the closest eyewitnesses to the president when he was hit. There's the famous picture of them both down in the grass trying to shield their children. Within minutes they were interviewed on Dallas TV and Bill Newman states that the head shot came from behind him i.e. the grassy knoll.
But the two eyewitnesses nearest the president ,the Warren Commission chose not to interview them. Doesn't make sense.
p.s. Before you pull the list of Commission interviewees the William Newman listed is a Dallas PO, not the same Bill Newman.
About the 1:15 and again at the 6:00 mark.
Here's an example. Bill and Gayle Newman were the closest eyewitnesses to the president when he was hit. There's the famous picture of them both down in the grass trying to shield their children. Within minutes they were interviewed on Dallas TV and Bill Newman states that the head shot came from behind him i.e. the grassy knoll.
But the two eyewitnesses nearest the president ,the Warren Commission chose not to interview them. Doesn't make sense.
p.s. Before you pull the list of Commission interviewees the William Newman listed is a Dallas PO, not the same Bill Newman.
About the 1:15 and again at the 6:00 mark.
Certainly what the remains of the other bullet look like.
For me, this is probably one of the most significant facts which points against any sort of conspiracy. Also, Oswald came close to getting another job right before he got the TSBD job, but the guy who was going to hire him called a former employer who had fired Oswald for being lazy and a little off, and told him to avoid Oswald the loser, so the guy did. Had he not made that phone call, history would have changed. Oswald would have probably shot somebody else; that's how off he was.
Also, it was not a difficult shot. The shot has been re-enacted numerous times by different levels of shooters and they all were able to make it.
This from the Assassination Archives:
"Still, the many theories make for colorful debate. Let’s take a look at one of the more popular ones, which was first sparked 51 years ago — on October 15, 1963 — when Lee Harvey Oswald was hired to work at the Texas School Book Depository, which overlooks Elm Street, where the assassination would soon occur. He was planted there, conspiracy buffs argue, and Kennedy’s motorcade route was deliberately planned to put the president within the crosshairs of Oswald’s rifle.
The evidence contradicts such speculation. It helps, first of all, to know about Oswald’s history in the preceding 12 months. He was fired from three different menial jobs in Dallas and New Orleans. Each time, he racked up a poor work record and alienated himself from bosses and co-workers. At one job, greasing machinery for a coffee company, a supervisor, Charles LeBlanc, recalls Oswald walking around aiming his forefinger at people. “He would go ‘Pow!’” LeBlanc says. Oswald’s supervisor recalls thinking to himself, “What a crackpot this guy is!”
But Oswald, a smug, uneducated drifter, didn’t just hint at violence. He regularly beat his wife, Marina, even when she was pregnant. In April 1963, he tried to shoot a leading right-wing figure in Dallas (ironically an enemy of President Kennedy), an event Oswald detailed extensively in his diary. Two weeks later he planned to bring his .38 to a Dallas event where Richard Nixon would be appearing — until an alarmed Marina forced him into the bathroom and refused to let him out until he calmed down and gave her the gun. And in August 1963, says Marina, he asked her to help hijack a plane to Cuba. She refused. “Our Papa is crazy!” Marina told their daughter.
Oswald returned to Dallas on October 4, 1963 (after a failed attempt to go to Cuba or return to the Soviet Union) with no job, no money, and no prospects. About to become a father for the second time, he needed work desperately.
That Oswald found work at the Book Depository is nothing less than a miracle. Many little pieces, seemingly unconnected, had to fall into place — and they did.
Just a week before, Oswald nearly got a job as a typesetter trainee at a printing company far from what would be President Kennedy’s motorcade route. He wanted the job badly, and made a favorable impression on his would-be-boss — until the boss called Bob Stovall, a prior boss at Padgett Printing Co., who fired Oswald in April 1963. Stovall told him of Oswald’s poor attitude and lazy work habits. He was a troublemaker and may be a communist, Stovall said, adding, “If I was you, I wouldn’t hire him.”
Had Oswald been hired, the world never would have heard of him, and it’s likely President Kennedy’s visit to Dallas would have gone smoothly — as it did until his dark blue Lincoln Continental turned onto Elm Street.
It’s also important to note that even though Oswald was about to become a father for the second time, he lived alone, in a cheap rooming house in the Oak Cliff section of Dallas. Marina, eight months pregnant and tired of Oswald’s beatings and unstable behavior, was living in suburban Irving at the home of Ruth Paine, a woman who had previously befriended the Oswalds. Ruth, no stranger to Oswald’s mistreatment of Marina, made it clear that he would have to live elsewhere, and could only visit with her and Marina’s approval.
On the morning of October 14, Ruth and Marina were having coffee at a neighbor’s house. At one point, the conversation turned to Oswald and the fact that he needed a job.
Two possibilities were raised: one at a local bakery and another at a gypsum plant. But those jobs required driving, and Oswald didn’t know how to drive. His prospects were narrow. But another neighbor in the little coffee klatch, Linnie Mae Randall, mentioned that her brother had just gotten a job at a place called the Texas School Book Depository downtown. It was the busy season, Linnie Mae said, and perhaps they could use another man.
Ruth Paine and Marina, who wanted Oswald to pull his weight, called the Depository. Superintendent Roy Truly said he would see Oswald the next day, October 15.
As he did at the printing company, Oswald made a good impression during the interview. He called Truly “sir,” which impressed Truly. He also lied to Truly that he was just out of the Marines (Oswald got out in 1959 and had his discharge reduced to “dishonorable” after defecting to the Soviet Union). Truly didn’t bother to check Oswald’s references and offered him a job filling book orders for $1.25 an hour. Oswald thought it beneath him, but needing a paycheck, took the job.
The printing company, the bakery, the gypsum plant — had any of those jobs worked out, Oswald would not have been in a position to shoot President Kennedy on November 22. And there’s something else many conspiracy theorists overlook: The Texas School Book Depository had two locations in 1963. Truly, Oswald’s boss, nearly told Oswald to report to a storage warehouse elsewhere, but at the last minute, decided he could use the extra help at the main location — in Dealey Plaza.
It took a string of tiny things to put Lee Harvey Oswald in the Texas School Book Depository on November 22, 1963. If it was a conspiracy, then everyone, at each point along the way, would have had to be in on it. One boss checked references, another didn’t. Neighbors gossiping over coffee and cigarettes. The wrong skills for one job, the right skills for another. A warehouse here, or a warehouse there. Had any one of these minor footnotes to history been slightly different, what would our world be like today?"
Right. All you do is blurt out “Warren Commission”, “beer drunk”, “ill informed”, “conspiracy”, yet you don’t attempt to dispel a reasoned, scientific assertions by someone who has more experience in related areas than anyone on this board will ever have. So yes, you are hiding behind one liners. You have decided that the Warren Report is bible. That’s fine, but awfully closed-minded.
The closed minded is you. You have once source. I have about $500 in 1970 money of sources
You
You remind me of Biden with these comebacks. Are you going to call me a “lying dogfaced pony soldier” next? You must be up around that age.
It's Thanksgiving Day, so I'll serve up another one: I've learned more from my misses than from my hits.
Another good one. By the way, Colbert beat me to it and gave an example above of someone the Commission neglected to interview. Again, I’m sure we’ll be able to produce numerous examples before you provide anything more than a superficial rebuttal of any ballistic assertions by Donahue.
I just watched a JFK themed interview with Roger Stone (who wrote a book about it and knew a lot of the players).
I've revaluated everything
I've revaluated everything
Nellie Connally says that it was two separate shots that hit JFK and her husband.
From 4:30 to about 5:30.
From 4:30 to about 5:30.
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Only mis-shapened at the back. Looks pretty good for hitting a couple of ribs and a wrist bone.
Wait, we don't? First the laptop was fake, now it's become verified, so are you afraid to see this played out? Afterall, we've had to sit through 6 years of Democratic ******** to get to this point! Sit back and enjoy The Revenge Tour, you had to know it was coming.But, now we have absolute and incontrovertible proof that Hunter‘s pop was on the CCP take.
100% correct, and your wasting your breath with that one. Warren Commission= Jan6th Commission is a great comparison.PS. Did the Warren Commission have anyone as bias as Pelosi pick the group or as well spoken as Bennie Thompson to run it or as well groomed as Jamie Raskin to represent the Commission? LMFAO!!!