OT: Potentially In Need of a Lawyer? Lead Paint Issue

[kupuna133]

If it were me I would talk to the guy, get a few things paid for and tell him to go take an EPA certified class and show me proof that he took it. The guy probably had no clue of what lead paint even is.

As a contractor acting in this space he sure as ****. better know what lead paint is. Ignorance will not hold up as a defense.

I agree you get what you pay for. And the homeowner is just as, if not more liable than the contractor. They both will end up paying multiples of what they could have if they did the job properly from the get go.

 

[mdk02]

I don't think you understand. Even if you try to be compliant and fail, the EPA still drills a hole in your ***. If as a contractor you try to follow their guidance its almost impossible to win a job when everyone is all about hiring the low bid.

And what are the chances the EPA would be involved if he hadn't contaminated half the neighborhood?

 

[RUforester72]

With the water under the bridge so to speak, what “damage” has been done? I microscopic bit of paint dust will settle in the lawns and after the first rain the rest will wash away to wherever?

Hopefully not into your drinking water. Second rule of ecology: everything goes somewhere. First rule: theres no such thing as a free lunch.

 

[RUskoolie]

And what are the chances the EPA would be involved if he hadn't contaminated half the neighborhood?

They randomly audit construction companies FYI

 

[tom1944]

They randomly audit construction companies FYI

Of course, they do but that does not address his point.

The EPA is involved because they polluted the area. Most likely they would have never been audited,

 

[iReC89]

Another option might be to find a reputable lead remediation company to quote on assessing and correcting the damage to a point where you can sell your house and get through disclosures. At this point with the EPA involved disclosures may be unavoidable. The contractor may or may not offer to pay for the work to be done, and if not, then you may need the lawyers help with that piece, and any healthcare related costs stemming from testing and treatment.

 

[megadrone]

Elevated lead blood tests are a serious matter. Add in a woman who is expecting and this never goes away. This sounds like a large scale contamination.

If you are the homeowner who hired the contractor, you should definitely be consulting a lawyer to find out what your liability is and isn't. Don't concern yourself with what the EPA will do to the contractor, concern yourself with what the EPA and your neighbors will or can do to you.

 

[gef21]

Update as of this morning:

The state has now told the painter that they do not have the level of certification for what they did, and they are legally not allowed to do any clean up or continue work in any regard.

At this point we are now waiting for an official to come in and test the original house for lead (we know the answer but has to be done by an official) and then responsible parties are required to bring in whatever lead remediation, testing, and clean up has to be done.

 

[gef21]

Elevated lead blood tests are a serious matter. Add in a woman who is expecting and this never goes away. This sounds like a large scale contamination.

If you are the homeowner who hired the contractor, you should definitely be consulting a lawyer to find out what your liability is and isn't. Don't concern yourself with what the EPA will do to the contractor, concern yourself with what the EPA and your neighbors will or can do to you.

I did not hire the contractor. I am one of the neighbors whose house/yard/vegetable garden/native garden was coated.

My children get blood drawn for a blood test soon also.

Has not been the best week.

 

[mildone_rivals]

I did not hire the contractor. I am one of the neighbors whose house/yard/vegetable garden/native garden was coated.

My children get blood drawn for a blood test soon also.

Has not been the best week.

Legalities and EPA and all aside, I really hope your kids turn out to be okay. And F the contractor for putting you and your family in this situation. I'm getting pissed off on your behalf.

 

[RuSnp]

I did not hire the contractor. I am one of the neighbors whose house/yard/vegetable garden/native garden was coated.

My children get blood drawn for a blood test soon also.

Has not been the best week.

Very sorry again to read this. Best of luck and hope the results are good across the board.

 

[gef21]

Legalities and EPA and all aside, I really hope your kids turn out to be okay. And F the contractor for putting you and your family in this situation. I'm getting pissed off on your behalf.

Thanks. If my kids are okay, everything else can be dealt with. Ill be pissed about the garden, the chickens, the dog etc. But if my kids are safe everything else is doable.

The kids are pissed about not being able to be in the yard, have bonfires etc. Luckily we have awesome windows also.

 

[mdk02]

They randomly audit construction companies FYI

And what percentage of jobs of this nature are randomly audited? I think this case is particularly egregious.

 

[DJ Spanky]

My children get blood drawn for a blood test soon also.

Hopefully that produces non-worrying results. Usually you need a ton of exposure for it to be an issue. Have you changed your furnace filter? Might be a good idea to get a really good filter for the next couple of months to screen out particulates in the air. Also might consider a HEPA air cleaner unit, maybe small one(s) for their room(s).

Has not been the best week.

Let's perk the week up with a win over State Penn!

Legalities and EPA and all aside, I really hope your kids turn out to be okay.

Well he is a Rutgers fan, so he might infect them with the pursuit of futility!eadHorse: :BeatDeadHorse:

 

[mildone_rivals]

Hopefully that produces non-worrying results. Usually you need a ton of exposure for it to be an issue. Have you changed your furnace filter? Might be a good idea to get a really good filter for the next couple of months to screen out particulates in the air. Also might consider a HEPA air cleaner unit, maybe small one(s) for their room(s).

Changing the HVAC filter(s) is a very good suggestion.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Most people here are cheap. Yes, they would hire the low bid guy. I deal with this a decent amount as a GC. That's my frustration ITT. People want A level service at an F price. It doesn't work that way. As I have said like 5 times ITT. If that neighbor got a bid from an EPA certified contractor who knew how much he had to do to remove all that lead paint safely and properly, the guy would never have hired them. Tens of thousands of dollars that would cost.

You need to lay plastic, wet all the paint, dress all the guys up in PPE. make sure no paint chips go anywhere on the grass, have poles with plastic in place to prevent it from possibly blowing places, vacuum all your material afterwards...the amount of time you would spend just on prep alone its insane...the circus you have to perform to be compliant makes the job dead on arrival. I sat through a 6 hour class on this and decided I wanted no part of it because of the risk involved.

I am all for being safe so I don't want this misconstrued but the EPAs guidelines are putting people out of business in the name of safety. If you opened up a painting business and tried to win business doing this you would go under and quickly.

Very true, you get what you pay for. Gotta pay more to have things done right. The lowest bidder is normally a bad idea.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Hopefully not into your drinking water. Second rule of ecology: everything goes somewhere. First rule: theres no such thing as a free lunch.

Is the OP's house on public water or a well? If the former, no problem. If the latter, some concern.

 

[gef21]

Is the OP's house on public water or a well? If the former, no problem. If the latter, some concern.

We are on town water that comes from 3 wells in town.

Changing the HVAC filter(s) is a very good suggestion.

We have an older home also, like the entire neighborhood, so we have radiator heat. That being said we have changed filters and brought home high level air filters to put into the house.

Luckily we lead tested near all of the windows and it does not appear any got through, except a bit in the attic.

 

[T2Kplus20]

We are on town water that comes from 3 wells in town.

We have an older home also, like the entire neighborhood, so we have radiator heat. That being said we have changed filters and brought home high level air filters to put into the house.

Luckily we lead tested near all of the windows and it does not appear any got through, except a bit in the attic.

You should be good with water in that case. The township utility would have an easy time detecting and removing any lead.

 

[RUforester72]

Is the OP's house on public water or a well? If the former, no problem. If the latter, some concern.

Depends where that polluted runoff goes! And who or what gets exposed to it along the way.

 

[gef21]

You should be good with water in that case. The township utility would have an easy time detecting and removing any lead.

Yeah that is the hope. I also disconnected all of the rain barrels because I assume the rain run off is going to be full of lead in our first storm.

Complete PITA all because someone didnt do something they should have done.

 

[LETSGORU91_]

Most people here are cheap. Yes, they would hire the low bid guy. I deal with this a decent amount as a GC. That's my frustration ITT. People want A level service at an F price. It doesn't work that way. As I have said like 5 times ITT. If that neighbor got a bid from an EPA certified contractor who knew how much he had to do to remove all that lead paint safely and properly, the guy would never have hired them. Tens of thousands of dollars that would cost.

You need to lay plastic, wet all the paint, dress all the guys up in PPE. make sure no paint chips go anywhere on the grass, have poles with plastic in place to prevent it from possibly blowing places, vacuum all your material afterwards...the amount of time you would spend just on prep alone its insane...the circus you have to perform to be compliant makes the job dead on arrival. I sat through a 6 hour class on this and decided I wanted no part of it because of the risk involved.

I am all for being safe so I don't want this misconstrued but the EPAs guidelines are putting people out of business in the name of safety. If you opened up a painting business and tried to win business doing this you would go under and quickly.

Fair enough and good points based on your experiences. The issue then boils down to safety versus cost savings and if people willingly/knowingly jeopardize the health of themselves, and even worse unsuspecting vulnerable people to save money, then they lack sound moral principles and are complete asses.

 

[LETSGORU91_]

Update as of this morning:

The state has now told the painter that they do not have the level of certification for what they did, and they are legally not allowed to do any clean up or continue work in any regard.

At this point we are now waiting for an official to come in and test the original house for lead (we know the answer but has to be done by an official) and then responsible parties are required to bring in whatever lead remediation, testing, and clean up has to be done.

A complete cluster f*#k. Hang in there.

 

[Retired711]

Update as of this morning:

The state has now told the painter that they do not have the level of certification for what they did, and they are legally not allowed to do any clean up or continue work in any regard.

At this point we are now waiting for an official to come in and test the original house for lead (we know the answer but has to be done by an official) and then responsible parties are required to bring in whatever lead remediation, testing, and clean up has to be done.

Here is a list of certified lead abatement contractors:

https://cfpub.epa.gov/flpp/pub/inde...tate_2=NJ&Applicant_Name=&Certificate_number=

 

[tom1944]

Is the homeowner who hired the contractor on the hook for any clean up that is necessary?

They should be in contact with their lawyer to review their homeowner's policy.

 

[CERU00]

I did not hire the contractor. I am one of the neighbors whose house/yard/vegetable garden/native garden was coated.

My children get blood drawn for a blood test soon also.

Has not been the best week.

I was exposed to lead while working in a lab at rutgers. As a precaution I took some chelation pills that bound up any lead ions and caused it be excreted in the urine. Hopefully there wasn't much exposure during the initial event but cross contamination would be the biggest concern going forward.

 

[gef21]

I was exposed to lead while working in a lab at rutgers. As a precaution I took some chelation pills that bound up any lead ions and caused it be excreted in the urine. Hopefully there wasn't much exposure during the initial event but cross contamination would be the biggest concern going forward.

Thanks for that info.

 

[mildone_rivals]

As a precaution I took some chelation pills that bound up any lead ions and caused it be excreted in the urine.

In that case, it was the lead that was pissed off.

 

[Retired711]

Is the homeowner who hired the contractor on the hook for any clean up that is necessary?

They should be in contact with their lawyer to review their homeowner's policy.

Probably EPA or NJDEP would go after the contractor first, but the homeowner is also at risk. Both could be subject to a hefty fine as well as paying for the clean-up. I doubt homeowners insurance covers hiring a non-certified contractor.

 

[gef21]

Right now EPA and state DCA are trying to determine the extent and if this qualifies as abatement issue or renovation issue. Normally would be abatement issue, but because of the spread they caused it could move up to renovation level. Official lead testing will be out today apparently to check a number of areas, and begin to determine what has to be done to soil and plant life.

The company came back and attempted to do more work on the house, and were shut down immediately by the town construction official, and he was pretty furious.

 

[kupuna133]

Right now EPA and state DCA are trying to determine the extent and if this qualifies as abatement issue or renovation issue. Normally would be abatement issue, but because of the spread they caused it could move up to renovation level. Official lead testing will be out today apparently to check a number of areas, and begin to determine what has to be done to soil and plant life.

The company came back and attempted to do more work on the house, and were shut down immediately by the town construction official, and he was pretty furious.

Was going to ask earlier if the site is cordoned off. I had an investment property in a townhome complex where an unlicensed contractor, hired by another resident, caused damage in a common area. The code enforcement and police roped the area off like a crime scene and wouldn't even allow the guy to have access to his tools on premises (although he did try and lead to criminal trespassing charges).

I doubt the contractor came back to do additional work. Knowing the damage he has already caused. He was back get tools, cover up and conceal. He better watch out the EPA and DEP have arrest authority.

 

[gef21]

Was going to ask earlier if the site is cordoned off. I had an investment property in a townhome complex where an unlicensed contractor caused damage in a common area. The code enforcement and police roped the area off like a crime scene and wouldn't even allow the guy to have access to his tools on premises (although he did try and lead to criminal trespassing charges).

I doubt the contractor came back to do additional work. Knowing the damage he has already caused. He was back to cover up and conceal. He better watch out the EPA and DEP have arrest authority.

At this point he was told he can not touch the property and has been told he has no authority to clean up the house, or any of the mess he made in other places. He claimed he had a certain level of lead certification, but apparently does not.

It all now rests on official lead testing, not just the at home kits we have been using. Then level of clean up is determined and we move forward.

I got some at home soil testing kits that I am going to use today, and I am interested in trying to test my eggs. The kids are getting mad that I have not let them eat the eggs from the yard this week.

 

[RU05]

Based on what I've read so far, I would think a consultation with a lawyer might be wise here.

Not to be Captain Obvious, but then the problem becomes how to choose the right lawyer. You want to avoid someone who is just looking to make a quick buck from your situation. A good lawyer will tell you when no lawyer is required, or when nothing more than a letter or two from a law firm is required, etc.

A crappy lawyer will milk your situation for their own profit and not GAF about you.

Both kinds of lawyers out there.

Ya, once it got to "covered my house (and garden) in lead dust" I think you have to.


Though, and apologies to OP here, I'm thinking "my son thought is was snowing" is a signal that there is some exaggeration going.

 

[kupuna133]

At this point he was told he can not touch the property and has been told he has no authority to clean up the house, or any of the mess he made in other places. He claimed he had a certain level of lead certification, but apparently does not.

It all now rests on official lead testing, not just the at home kits we have been using. Then level of clean up is determined and we move forward.

I got some at home soil testing kits that I am going to use today, and I am interested in trying to test my eggs. The kids are getting mad that I have not let them eat the eggs from the yard this week.

I am so sorry for the trouble these idiots (homeowner and contractor) have caused you and your neighbors. I hope there is minimal exposure and you can get back to living a normal life. All it takes is one person cutting corners to cause misery for many.

 

[RU05]

If it were me I would talk to the guy, get a few things paid for and tell him to go take an EPA certified class and show me proof that he took it. The guy probably had no clue of what lead paint even is.

I thought the story is he was lead certified.

 

[Retired711]

At this point he was told he can not touch the property and has been told he has no authority to clean up the house, or any of the mess he made in other places. He claimed he had a certain level of lead certification, but apparently does not.

It all now rests on official lead testing, not just the at home kits we have been using. Then level of clean up is determined and we move forward.

I got some at home soil testing kits that I am going to use today, and I am interested in trying to test my eggs. The kids are getting mad that I have not let them eat the eggs from the yard this week.

I'm glad this is moving forward. The official testing is almost certainly more reliable than the at-home kits.

Is it DCA or DEP that's involved?

 

[gef21]

I'm glad this is moving forward. The official testing is almost certainly more reliable than the at-home kits.

Is it DCA or DEP that's involved?

EPA and DCA are two organizations working and taking up the issue.

 

[gef21]

Ya, once it got to "covered my house (and garden) in lead dust" I think you have to.


Though, and apologies to OP here, I'm thinking "my son thought is was snowing" is a signal that there is some exaggeration going.

I wasnt home. But I was told by my wife and the neighbors across the street, that during the middle of the process it was hard to see across the street. My buddy described it as if a vacuum had malfunctioned and it was shooting out at a very high rate in two directions.

 

[gef21]

I thought the story is he was lead certified.

Apparently there are different levels of lead certification. He did not have a certification for abatement of an entire house (which shows since he did not abatement).

 

[Kbee3]

I wasnt home. But I was told by my wife and the neighbors across the street, that during the middle of the process it was hard to see across the street. My buddy described it as if a vacuum had malfunctioned and it was shooting out at a very high rate in two directions.

That sucks. Get a lawyer.