OT: Question about disc bulge in lower back

SyonaraStanz

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Mar 5, 2010
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I have a disc bulge in my lower back, L4/L5, which has been a recurring problem for a few years. I aggravate it (usually working out), and it has always corrected itself with muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories. This latest time isn't healing up very quickly, so I need to see a specialist. Do any of you Jackson Residents have any good recommendations for a back specialist that's familiar with sports injuries?

Thanks.
 

billysteve

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Mar 1, 2013
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I had the same problem.

I went to NewSouth Neurospine in Flowood, it's a big nice clinic. They put me on steroids for a week and it felt better for two days then I went back and had an MRI and said L4 was bulging and they told me I needed surgery to fix it. He told me that was about my only option. I called a friend of mine that is a physical therapist and he recommended Makenzie exercises. I figured why not, I even bought the book that goes along with the exercises.

http://www.amazon.com/Steps-Pain-Fr...UTF8&qid=1378216806&sr=1-9&keywords=back+pain

Within the first week I was already feeling better and it hasn't bothered me since. The book talks about doing some things that seem stupid like buying the back roll for the car, I bought it and used it for the first month and haven't needed it since then. Anytime it starts bothering me a little bit I do the exercises and it is back to normal. If you are positive this is the exact place you had the injury it will work for you, if it is in another place it may not work. Either way it's cheaper than surgery.
 

Hanmudog

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Apr 30, 2006
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If that disc is ruptured then no amount of therapy or exercise is going to help and in fact can make it worse. I would see someone ASAP to find out if there is a rupture. I had surgery on my L4/L5 8 years ago after they ruptured but due to my previous doctor waiting so long I ended up with some permanent sciatic damage.

So step one is to find out if it is bulging or ruptured. The good news is that the surgery only leaves a one inch scar and is minimally invasive and works pretty fast if done early.
 

OLD CE DAWG

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Sep 3, 2009
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I have had a bulging disk L4-L5 for 25 years. I tried physical therapy and lots of Advil. Basically I tried to tough it out. About 8 year into being tough I started getting a tingling in my toes of my left foot like it was going to sleep. My family Dr. told me I needed to see a neuosurgeon right away or I would lose the feeling in the foot. I saw a great doctor in Jackson. Dr lynn Stringer. He did surgery on my disk. Cut away all that was bulging out. I got about 50% improvement but I still have some back pain and left hip pain. Dr Stringer said I had waited too long to do the surgery and that I had damaged my siatica nerve. Now 17 years later I have just learned to live with it. From past experience I would go see a good back surgeon and get his opinion. Do it now before the disk cuts on the nerve in the area of the bulge.
 

Heawww

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Jun 15, 2013
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Agreed. Get an MRI and see exactly what it is. Chiropractors, Therapists and Pain Doctors will always recommend their particular type of fix, but you need to know what's going on. Disc injuries are hell, people really do not understand unless they have one.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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Whether it's bulging or ruptured etc does not indicate what treatment is needed next. I assume the surgeon told you surgery was needed because the pain goes down into your leg. Even then, surgery is only necessary IF you are experiencing weakness than is getting worse or you are having bladder problems, stuff like that. No matter how big the bulge or rupture is, surgery is usually not absolutely necessary unless it is causing increasing nerve damage. There are lots of options, including PT, steroids (injection in the spine or by mouth) etc. If the pain does not go down a leg, the success with surgery is often poor.
 

starkvegasdawg

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Dec 1, 2011
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You have my sympathies. My mom has had 7 back surgeries for bulging / ruptured discs. Last week she fell off of her bicycle and now we are hoping #8 is not in her future. The always has it done in Jackson at River Oaks. I am drawing a complete blank on the doctor's name. She used to use Dr. Warren but he retired several years ago. If you would like, I can see who it is that has done her last 2-3. She has not had to have one in about 6-7 years so that is why I am blanking on the name. If someone called it I would recognize it.

ETA: Dr.'s name is Lyn Stringer. He was the one that was recommended to her when her first one retired. I think his office is in Flowood.
 
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Nov 19, 2012
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Disc "herniate" all the time, and you may not even know it. You need an MRI if you have signs of nerve damage or if the pain doesn't go away on its own within a month or so. Any pain doctor that treats you without a scan sounds suspicious. I ruptured a disc, but the doctor told me since the pain didn't "radiate" all I needed was PT. He showed me an article that shows a huge number of people with NO PAIN have disc degeneration, disease, protrusions, etc, depending on their age. I'm surprised to hear a doctor said "only surgery" would help unless there was worsening nerve damage. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9460946
 

Heawww

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Jun 15, 2013
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Honestly, you need to quit that working out. Once you start having disc problems your days of weightlifting are pretty much over (if you want to live pain free). First, go get the MRI and figure out what's going on. Second, if you do have surgery and even if you don't, you need to incorporate exercises that do not compress your spine. If you just absolutely HAVE to deadlift, squat, and all that, kill your ego, and go as light as possible and focus on strengthening your core around the back. Slowly progress. Most people don't have the discipline to do this.
 

Optimus Prime 4

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May 1, 2006
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I got one of those sit/stand-up desks at work, and it's really helped me. Also, sitting on one of those goofy yoga balls didn't hurt either. But yeah, you shouldn't work out anything except for light strengthening of the muscles in the area.
 

SuspectZero

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Mar 3, 2008
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I've had a herinated disc at L5/S1 since 2008. In 2009 I had surgery and it helped a little. Last year the disc herinated again and now I'm looking at a fusion. I'm doing everything I can to avoid it.
As others have said, get an MRI and see a specialist. If the disc is herinated, there is nothing you can do except have it surgically corrected. No amount of PT, ice, heat, exercise, ect will fix it. It may relieve some pain but not eliminate it. Any good surgeon will start off with steroid injections and nerve blocks before doing surgery. That may help some. It didn't for me. I'm at a point where I have to take multiple pain pills twice a day just to be able to move around. I have to wake up 30 min early everyday and roll onto the floor and start doing stretches and exercises before I can move around and get ready for work. DO NOT wait until you are in the same condition that I'm in before getting things corrected.

As I'm sure others will tell you, long term back pain from herinated disc can easily affect every single aspect of your life. It controls everything you do. Don't depend on Pain Management Dr.'s. Mine hasn't helped one bit. Do whatever you have to do to fix it as soon as possible. If you have more questions, I sure any of us that has screwed up disc, would be happy to help out.
 
Nov 19, 2012
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It is simply not true that once you have a disc herniation, nothing but surgery will help. I had a huge one, had injections and PT and my pain went away. Now I do P-90X. You can play pro sports with a herniation. Many large herniations heal completely with nothing but time, though PT probably speeds the process up.
 

Heawww

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Jun 15, 2013
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If the disc ruptures, surgery is the only way. No matter what you call it (herniation, bulging, etc.), if the outer ring of the disc tears and the soft nucleus can get out, surgery is your only option. In the 1800 before surgery was an option, this particular injury is why so many people got hooked on opium. It never heals.

If the disc is not torn, yes, some decompression therapies, stretching and things like that can help.

My L5/S1 completely ruptured, and I had surgery to repair it. I've religiously stretched and worked my core since that day, and I'm near 95% I still don't lift heavy **** if I can help it though. It also depends on which disc it is. The L5/S1 is a 'lifting' disc. The L4/L5 is more 'twisting' if I understand correctly.
 

skydawg1

All-Conference
Jul 31, 2007
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I have a disc bulge in my lower back, L4/L5, which has been a recurring problem for a few years. I aggravate it (usually working out), and it has always corrected itself with muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories. This latest time isn't healing up very quickly, so I need to see a specialist. Do any of you Jackson Residents have any good recommendations for a back specialist that's familiar with sports injuries?

Thanks.
My wife has been going to Garvey Chiropractor on Lakeland across from UMC since 2009. Garvey has one of only 2 spinal decompression machines in the area (maybe even in the state). It has helped her tremendously. She has a bulged L5 and has been totally pain free and hasn't taken a steroid or muscle relaxer since her treatments began.

Here's a pic of the machine...


http://betterdisc.com/
 
Nov 19, 2012
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That is just not true! My doctor told me that because I didn't have nerve damage, I could try non-surgical treatment first. He said discs healing on there own is common. Even total "extrusion" of the nucleus can heal. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2966735/ NORMAL people with ZERO pain can have the "nucleus" tear through the ring. In fact, it's common-- up to 3 out of 4 people have them-- but have no symptoms at all. http://journals.lww.com/spinejourna...story_of_Individuals_With_Asymptomatic.6.aspx
 

Heawww

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Jun 15, 2013
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I'm going by my own personal experiences and advice that numerous doctors have given me. I'm not reading nor disputing your internet research. And what I said probably isn't a hard fact. But I'm fairly certain that the majority of ruptured discs require surgery to become pain free (as in, no pain medications needed, even Ibuprofen).
 

Yellowfin

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Aug 22, 2012
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Earlier reply on the Mackenzie system is spot on. I had L4-L5, L5-S1 about 15 years ago and was prescribed physical therapy using Mackenzie system. Used it and result was almost immediate. All you have to do is get disk back in lone a little to relieve nerve pain.
 

CEO2044

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May 11, 2009
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My wife has been going to Garvey Chiropractor on Lakeland across from UMC since 2009. Garvey has one of only 2 spinal decompression machines in the area (maybe even in the state). It has helped her tremendously. She has a bulged L5 and has been totally pain free and hasn't taken a steroid or muscle relaxer since her treatments began.

Here's a pic of the machine...


http://betterdisc.com/

That looks like a traction machine. Which plenty of people have.
 

MagnoliaHunter

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Jan 23, 2007
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here is the diet and exercise program you need

Q: Doctor, I've heard that cardiovascular exercise can prolong life. Is this true?
A: Heart only good for so many beats, and that it.. Don't waste on exercise. Everything wear out eventually. Speeding up heart not make you live longer; it like saying you extend life of car by driving faster. Want to live longer? Take nap.



Q: Should I reduce my alcohol intake?
A: Oh no. Wine made from fruit. Brandy distilled wine, that mean they take water out of fruity bit so you get even more of goodness that way. Beer also made of grain. Bottom up!



Q: How can I calculate my body/fat ratio?
A: Well, if you have body and you have fat, your ratio one to one. If you have two body, your ratio two to one.



Q: What are some of the advantages of participating in a regular exercise program?
A: Can't think of single one, sorry. My philosophy: No pain...good!



Q: Aren't fried foods bad for you?
A: YOU NOT LISTENING! Food fried in vegetable oil. How getting more vegetable be bad?



Q: Will sit-ups help prevent me from getting a little soft around the middle?
A: Oh no! When you exercise muscle, it get bigger. You should only be doing sit-up if you want bigger stomach.



Q: Is chocolate bad for me?
A: You crazy?!? HEL-LO-O!! Cocoa bean! Another vegetable! It best feel-good food around!



Q: Is swimming good for your figure?
A: If swimming good for figure, explain whale to me.



Q: Is getting in shape important for my lifestyle?
A: Hey! 'Round' is shape!



Well... I hope this has cleared up any misconceptions you may have had about food and diets.

And remember:
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well-preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Chardonnay in one hand - chocolate in the other - body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO-HOO, what a ride!!"

AND....

For those of you who watch what you eat, here's the final word on nutrition and health. It's a relief to know the truth after all those conflicting nutritional studies.

1. The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

2. The Mexicans eat a lot of fat and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.

3. The Chinese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans

4. The Italians drink a lot of red wine and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans...

5. The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats and suffer fewer heart attacks than Americans.


CONCLUSION: Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.
 

biguglyjoe

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Mar 3, 2008
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I bought a teeter inversion table off Craigslist about 5 years ago. My left leg was going numb and my back would basically lock up at times. My back was so bad i was afraid that I wouldnt be able to load it. I noticed a difference after 3 sessions on it. A week later, I felt great. I usually get on it about 10 minutes a day. If I am consistent about it, my back is great. If I miss a few days, the numbness starts creeping back and my back starts acting up again. It has kept me off the operating table and I swear by it.
 

ShrubDog

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Apr 13, 2008
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I suffer from retrolethesis of the L5-S1, sciatica and injuried neck. I have been to chiropractors in 5 states and finally have found one who is ahead of the curve. I do not get any injections or take any muscle relaxers.

His name is Dr. Pitts @ Norville Chiropractic in Flowood. He is certified in the Graston Technique. No one in the area does this but him and its truely amazing the relief it has given me. Its been a blessing

http://www.grastontechnique.com/
 
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CEO2044

Senior
May 11, 2009
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I have a disc bulge in my lower back, L4/L5, which has been a recurring problem for a few years. I aggravate it (usually working out), and it has always corrected itself with muscle relaxers and anti-inflammatories. This latest time isn't healing up very quickly, so I need to see a specialist. Do any of you Jackson Residents have any good recommendations for a back specialist that's familiar with sports injuries?

Thanks.

I'm in PT school, so I'm going to recommend physical therapy. But you're right, you do need to see someone that sees a lot of backs. I haven't done any rotations in Jackson, so I'm kind of unfamiliar with who's best. I've heard the NeuroSpine people are pretty good.

McKenzie exercises are very commonly used for disc bulges, as others have said. Traction, as others have mentioned, is a good treatment as well.

Personally, I'm just leery of any place that would tell someone like you that surgery is a high option on their list. It seems like you've managed it well for a while without exercises. So pay attention if they start saying that.

Also- I'm not that familiar with NeuroSpine so I looked them up. It seems like they offer PT on-site. Sometimes this isn't a bad deal, but I'm leery of physician owned PT clinics (if that's what it is). They can bill for treatments and have anyone on staff perform it as long as they are somewhere around. I don't want some exercise physiologist doing spinal mobs on me and pay full price for that. Especially with disc problems. They may be really ethical and not do any of that, but just knowing they can stays on my mind.
 
Dec 15, 2012
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May I ask if you know the severity of the bulge and if it was diagnosed by a MD or self-diagnosed? I'm also on the PT side of things, and I'm not sure of a good doctor to see in the Jackson area. If meds ease your pain that easily, then your best bet is to go to any doctor that will give you a PT referral. Granted, PT in and of itself will probably not heal you, but if you go see an experienced, quality PT and are faithful with your home exercise program, it should work wonders. PT gets a bad rap often due to patients doing therapy for 2-3 hours a week and nothing else (when a large portion of therapy is dependent on the patient continuing exercises at home).
 

dawgbone.sixpack

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Sep 15, 2012
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Alright, let's clear something up. Surgery is almost never your only option...a lot of times it is the option that will get you feeling better faster. Look up the SPORT study. However, resorption of large disks by the body is common. The body responds to the rupture by releasing inflammatory mediators which cause pain but also help to dissolve the herniation. Large percentages of people in the at large asymptomatic population have bulging and even herniated disks. There was a big MRI study done on this within the last ten years that proved this. Axial, or back pain, from disk disease is best treated conservatively with PT, anti-inflammatories/steroids, and rest during times of exacerbations. However, if you do have radicular symptoms, pain running down the leg, weakness/numbness, or bowel or bladder function changes, then surgery MAY be a good option. However, the only common real need to rush into surgery is with progressive weakness and/or a combination of the bowel/bladder problems. Dude, I am orthopaedic surgeon and two of my colleagues have had bad ruptured disks with weakness and leg pain...after doing the research and talking to their spine colleagues, they decided to go conservative. Both recovered well with no residual dysfunction. Don't let anyone on here tell you that surgery is your only option. Do the research yourself and get a couple of opinions from spine ortho docs and/or neurosurgeons. Hope you back gets better.
 
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Crazy Dawg

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Jun 15, 2013
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Orhan Ilercil is very good. Dr Allen Sills (Mississippi State grad) at Vandy is the best hands down. He did my fusion and I INSTANTLY was pain free. He's the dr on States staff that tended to Russell. If you end up having to have it operated on I'd at least take the time to get him to give a second opinion. It'd be worth the drive to Nashville. A hurt back sucks. Good luck.
 

Heawww

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Jun 15, 2013
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Chaz Ramsey should weigh in on this conversation. That dude apparently had 2 bulging discs if I remember the reports correctly, and tried to lift weights and play football, which eventually led to that run-in with the Auburn coaches. At least that's what was out there on the interwebs, who knows the real truth.

I remember thinking that his football career was probably over. I can't even imagine have two of those mfers.
 

SyonaraStanz

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Mar 5, 2010
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It was diagnosed by a doctor in 2008. He put me on the meds and it corrected itself within a week. I've reaggravated it a couple more times and went to a nurse practitioner. She refilled my scripts and sent me to PT. PT gave me exercises to do, which i was already doing most in my stretching and mobility work when I exercise. I'm feeling better today but still have some soreness and mobility limitations, so I'm going to wait to see a doctor, if I stop improving back to normal.

Ive tried the McKenzie exercise where you lie flat and push your upper body up, with hips on the floor. That causes me pain, even when I'm not dealing with a bulge issue, so I'm reluctant to do any hyper extension of my spine right now.

I appreciate all of the information, guys.
 

FlabLoser

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Aug 20, 2006
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Pilates. Pilates. Pilates.

With a Pilates instructor. Don't do what hurts. Just strengthen your core.
 

CEO2044

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May 11, 2009
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It was diagnosed by a doctor in 2008. He put me on the meds and it corrected itself within a week. I've reaggravated it a couple more times and went to a nurse practitioner. She refilled my scripts and sent me to PT. PT gave me exercises to do, which i was already doing most in my stretching and mobility work when I exercise. I'm feeling better today but still have some soreness and mobility limitations, so I'm going to wait to see a doctor, if I stop improving back to normal.

Ive tried the McKenzie exercise where you lie flat and push your upper body up, with hips on the floor. That causes me pain, even when I'm not dealing with a bulge issue, so I'm reluctant to do any hyper extension of my spine right now.

I appreciate all of the information, guys.

I understand. I used to have low back pain too, and McKenzie wasn't right for me, either. Not everyone fits strictly into one little box. You're doing right in discontinuing them if they cause pain.

If it were me, I'd grab my PT and tell him/her about what's going on. Sometimes you have to find the right position to perform them in. If it causes you pain, I doubt your PT is going to ask you to do them- they might do like I say and find a position you can perform them comfortably in, or go a different route. They can get the negative pressure with traction; back extension exercises re-inforce what you're trying to do.

On one of my rotations, the guy over me was a big fan of Shirley Sahrmann exercises. Which is a lot of core exercises and hip abductor stuff.

Of course, this is just advice over the internet, so take it for what it's worth. If you're still doing PT, do as I said earlier and make them watch you and adjust you to see if you can find a position worth doing them in. Or see if they want to try something else.