OT - Skyrocketing travel costs

[DerHntr]

We actually started doing this 2-3 times/yr a few years back, and it’s funny because it all started as something that only I wanted to do since I basically missed out on the experience as a kid. However, I ended being really surprised at how much our whole family enjoyed it.

The added bonus is that we live in a part of Arkansas where there are genuinely like 15 state parks within 2-4 hrs

I agree that this is a great option

Do you have kids under 17? Dry Run Creek is one of the best trout streams in the US and you can only fish it if you’re under 17 or disabled. It’s all catch and release. The size and quantity of the trout is incredible. A kid caught a freak show 32 inch brown last month.

Dry Run Creek - Friends of the Norfork National Fish Hatchery

Friends of the Norfork Fish Hachtery is the #1 tourist attraction and home to 2.5 million trout in Baxter County and North Central Arkansas offering fishing for kids and the mobility impaired.

www.norforkhatcheryfriends.org

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Im considering retiring to Europe. The cost of living is a fraction of the cost here. The U.S. has become the playground of the rich.

 

[Podgy]

Im considering retiring to Europe. The cost of living is a fraction of the cost here. The U.S. has become the playground of the rich.

Living in Europe on an American income puts you among the rich.

 

[Dawgbite]

I gotta be honest. I'm beginning to think your friendship with these people should bring your SPS cred into question.

My credibility should always be questioned. Along with my motives and decision making. They can all be a little suspect at times.

 

[o_Hot Rock]

Im considering retiring to Europe. The cost of living is a fraction of the cost here. The U.S. has become the playground of the rich.

My cousin says Spain... I have never gone and am afraid this country redneck would not fit in.

 

[o_Hot Rock]

It's the boomers retiring and blowing their money on travel. Have you eaten breakfast in a hotel lately? It will be full of people over 60. They're taking cruises like maniacs. Taking the entire family to Disney so they can spend a week with the grandkids. Going to all the places they couldn't when they were working.

Google it. I'm serious.

that's my plan but there is a problem, I gotta keep working to afford it and I am too damn old to do both.

 

[stateu1]

Do you have kids under 17? Dry Run Creek is one of the best trout streams in the US and you can only fish it if you’re under 17 or disabled. It’s all catch and release. The size and quantity of the trout is incredible. A kid caught a freak show 32 inch brown last month.

Dry Run Creek - Friends of the Norfork National Fish Hatchery

Friends of the Norfork Fish Hachtery is the #1 tourist attraction and home to 2.5 million trout in Baxter County and North Central Arkansas offering fishing for kids and the mobility impaired.

www.norforkhatcheryfriends.org

And Bull Shoals State Park is awesome and is not too far away.

 

[ckDOG]

And Bull Shoals State Park is awesome and is not too far away.

Yep. Get a site on the river and you just walk down a hill for great fishing.

 

[stateu1]

Yep. Get a site on the river and you just walk down a hill for great fishing.

Even the tent sites in the back are cool. Can rent kayaks and catch fish all the way down to the pick up.

Also a short hiking trail accessible from the back side of the park.

 

[L4Dawg]

Im considering retiring to Europe. The cost of living is a fraction of the cost here. The U.S. has become the playground of the rich.

What part? A lot of it isn't cheaper than here, not even close.

 

[MSUDOG24]

I gotta be honest. I'm beginning to think your friendship with these people should bring your SPS cred into question.

LOL, I was going to say ... OK, now you're just making stuff up.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Man, I’m there. My wife and I didn’t grow up with money, but I feel like we’ve done well enough, and it’s not like we’re hurting. That said, what kind of world do we live in when I’m having to tell the family sorry, we really can’t do IHOP on Sunday morning because we don’t have $120 to spend on f’n pancakes and eggs. Travel and casual dining have gotten absolutely ludicrous

All of this goes back to all the COVID stimulus in 2020 and 2021. Service workers either stayed home and got paid or moved up their career ladder. Complaining about restaurant and hotel prices is like complaining about why the bank won't give you a 2.75% mortgage rate anymore. The banks aren't price gouging at 7.0% and neither are hotels and restaurants with $15 burgers.


Food and hotel service wages have nearly doubled in the past 5 years. Regulation by the town, county, state, and feds have continued to increase. Wholesale food costs have gone up 60-80% as well. All my consumables (like latex gloves you definitely want food service workers wearing) are made in China and will triple in price. Insurance has skyrocketed.

Businesses have to run on a cost allowing profit margin. A really profitable restaurant is going to profit about 10%. The biggest factor in determining menu prices is what we call prime costs. Food + labor should equal +/- 60% of revenue.

So if my hamburger raw food cost was $2.50 and the labor to make it was was $2.50 in 2019.... I could sell it for $8.50 and hit my margins. ($5.00/.60 = $8.33) Fast forward today and it costs $4.50 for the raw food and $4.50 for the labor I have to sell it for $15. ($9/.60 = $15).

Its really bad in vacation/resort areas. Along with all the printed money handed out, interest rates went to zero. The banks and realtors made trillions on loans for 2nd homes and investment properties in resort areas. Now housing that was previously used for employees is scarce, rents have skyrocketed. I have a 20 something year old employee that lives in a 5th wheel at an RV park. Its $1750 a month. 400 sf studio apartment that hasn't been updated since the 70's will be closer to $2,000 a month.

So if we want all this stuff to get cheaper everyone has to pay back all the extra loot the gubment handed out. Realtors should give back their commissions. Banks give back the fees. 2nd home owners need to relist the property at what they paid for it, etc...

Inflation damages were outsized on the lower paid workers and lower cost industries.

 

[dorndawg]

All of this goes back to all the COVID stimulus in 2020 and 2021. Service workers either stayed home and got paid or moved up their career ladder. Complaining about restaurant and hotel prices is like complaining about why the bank won't give you a 2.75% mortgage rate anymore. The banks aren't price gouging at 7.0% and neither are hotels and restaurants with $15 burgers.


Food and hotel service wages have nearly doubled in the past 5 years. Regulation by the town, county, state, and feds have continued to increase. Wholesale food costs have gone up 60-80% as well. All my consumables (like latex gloves you definitely want food service workers wearing) are made in China and will triple in price. Insurance has skyrocketed.

Businesses have to run on a cost allowing profit margin. A really profitable restaurant is going to profit about 10%. The biggest factor in determining menu prices is what we call prime costs. Food + labor should equal +/- 60% of revenue.

So if my hamburger raw food cost was $2.50 and the labor to make it was was $2.50 in 2019.... I could sell it for $8.50 and hit my margins. ($5.00/.60 = $8.33) Fast forward today and it costs $4.50 for the raw food and $4.50 for the labor I have to sell it for $15. ($9/.60 = $15).

Its really bad in vacation/resort areas. Along with all the printed money handed out, interest rates went to zero. The banks and realtors made trillions on loans for 2nd homes and investment properties in resort areas. Now housing that was previously used for employees is scarce, rents have skyrocketed. I have a 20 something year old employee that lives in a 5th wheel at an RV park. Its $1750 a month. 400 sf studio apartment that hasn't been updated since the 70's will be closer to $2,000 a month.

So if we want all this stuff to get cheaper everyone has to pay back all the extra loot the gubment handed out. Realtors should give back their commissions. Banks give back the fees. 2nd home owners need to relist the property at what they paid for it, etc...

Inflation damages were outsized on the lower paid workers and lower cost industries.

Everything you write here makes sense to me. If a person doesn't see the value proposition (I increasingly am in this group), they can simply not participate, seek better values, or make it themselves. Markets can take it.

 

[Podgy]

My cousin says Spain... I have never gone and am afraid this country redneck would not fit in.

Spain to me is meh. It's o.k. and cheap but the Spanish aren't really fond of wealthy Americans moving in. I prefer Italy among the southern European countries.

 

[Podgy]

It's the boomers retiring and blowing their money on travel. Have you eaten breakfast in a hotel lately? It will be full of people over 60. They're taking cruises like maniacs. Taking the entire family to Disney so they can spend a week with the grandkids. Going to all the places they couldn't when they were working.

Google it. I'm serious.

The real debt problem is government spending on the elderly. We have too many old people who expect a certain lifestyle and standard of living with too few young people contributing to the vast welfare state that supports the elderly. I'll retire soon and before I'm 65. Don't you dare cut my social security or Medicare. I paid for that, meaning I paid into those systems and I'm looking to benefit much more from them.

 

[dawgman42]

Im considering retiring to Europe. The cost of living is a fraction of the cost here. The U.S. has become the playground of the rich.

Amsterdam, I presume?

 

[johnson86-1]

Im considering retiring to Europe. The cost of living is a fraction of the cost here. The U.S. has become the playground of the rich.

Portugal is supposed to be the bomb.

Living in Europe on an American income puts you among the rich.

More or less. As much as people **** on Mississippi, we are richer on a PPP adjusted basis than all but like Belgium and Ireland, and I think the Ireland number is somewhat fake because they get a lot of IP parked there legally for tax purposes.

 

[johnson86-1]

The real debt problem is government spending on the elderly. We have too many old people who expect a certain lifestyle and standard of living with too few young people contributing to the vast welfare state that supports the elderly. I'll retire soon and before I'm 65. Don't you dare cut my social security or Medicare. I paid for that, meaning I paid into those systems and I'm looking to benefit much more from them.

It really is absurd what boomers did to younger generations on this one. A lot of them are living high on the hog and pricing out younger people with money transferred to them from those same younger, poorer people they are pricing out.

It's a shame people don't realize how much of the employer side of social security taxes they bear in reduced wages. They'd riot. If you assumed our current earnings stayed flat from now until we hit 62, our social security and medicare taxes over our life, if invested until 62 in something like the S&P, would produce something like a $4.25M nest egg in todays dollars. It's insane to take 15% of somebody's earnings for 40 years and then be like, we're going to replace less than 30% of your income and we're going to have to steal from younger, poorer tax payers to do it.

 

[johnson86-1]

Everything you write here makes sense to me. If a person doesn't see the value proposition (I increasingly am in this group), they can simply not participate, seek better values, or make it themselves. Markets can take it.

Nah, everythign he wrote is ********. He's just trying to divert attention from the fact that he's making bank charging $30 for pizzas and $15 for brisket sandwiches made from Buccee's brisket he ships in while paying his employees $7.25 an hour.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

Nah, everythign he wrote is ********. He's just trying to divert attention from the fact that he's making bank charging $30 for pizzas and $15 for brisket sandwiches made from Buccee's brisket he ships in while paying his employees $7.25 an hour.

^^^ Obviously doesn't understand how much money it takes to support my employees' hooker needs.

 

[Shmuley]

Everything you write here makes sense to me. If a person doesn't see the value proposition (I increasingly am in this group), they can simply not participate, seek better values, or make it themselves. Markets can take it.

This is where I am. I don’t intend to participate in the silliness. Instead of eating out, I’ll just go home and fix me an egg sandwich. Instead of traveling, I’ll occupy myself locally.

 

[Darryl Steight]

No, he into it too. Two stories. Disney sells collectible pins. They have booths in each park maned by staff that you can trade any of your pins for any pin on the table. The goal is to complete themed sets, of course there is always one pin of every set that is in limited supply. You can also trade with other people gathered around these booths. He always carries this backpack big enough for a carryon and has a portfolio full if these collectible pins. Some of these pin sets are worth hundreds and possibly thousands of dollars to other collectors once completed. I’ve watched him bargain with 10 year old kids over pins and swap them a $3 pin for a $200 pin because they didn’t know what they had.
Second story. We leave for animal kingdom one morning, sun is shining and it’s fairly warm for February but rain is predicted later in the day. An hour after getting to the park it starts to drizzle ever so slightly and we’re in shorts , T-shirt, and sneakers. We’re all four standing in line waiting for the safari and he pulls a full rain suit, rubber boots, and an egg sandwich out of that backpack and proceeds to change right in line.
I initially thought it was weird but I’ve since become a little envious. I wish I had something that I was that passionate about. Everyone needs something in their life that makes them feel 12 years old again.

Egg sandwich = win. Did it have ketchup on it? I mean that's a perfect snack.

The rest makes me think the FBI is going to raid this guy's house one day.

 

[Dawgbite]

LOL, I was going to say ... OK, now you're just making stuff up.

Nope. Outside of Disney they are a great couple, good golf partner, great to go out to dinner with or grill out with, first person to volunteer to help us move, loves college football, but Disney turns both of them into a 12 year old with a Mountain Dew buzz.

 

[Dawgbite]

This is where I am. I don’t intend to participate in the silliness. Instead of eating out, I’ll just go home and fix me an egg sandwich. Instead of traveling, I’ll occupy myself locally.

Occupy myself locally just sounds wrong!

 

[Seinfeld]

All of this goes back to all the COVID stimulus in 2020 and 2021. Service workers either stayed home and got paid or moved up their career ladder. Complaining about restaurant and hotel prices is like complaining about why the bank won't give you a 2.75% mortgage rate anymore. The banks aren't price gouging at 7.0% and neither are hotels and restaurants with $15 burgers.


Food and hotel service wages have nearly doubled in the past 5 years. Regulation by the town, county, state, and feds have continued to increase. Wholesale food costs have gone up 60-80% as well. All my consumables (like latex gloves you definitely want food service workers wearing) are made in China and will triple in price. Insurance has skyrocketed.

Businesses have to run on a cost allowing profit margin. A really profitable restaurant is going to profit about 10%. The biggest factor in determining menu prices is what we call prime costs. Food + labor should equal +/- 60% of revenue.

So if my hamburger raw food cost was $2.50 and the labor to make it was was $2.50 in 2019.... I could sell it for $8.50 and hit my margins. ($5.00/.60 = $8.33) Fast forward today and it costs $4.50 for the raw food and $4.50 for the labor I have to sell it for $15. ($9/.60 = $15).

Its really bad in vacation/resort areas. Along with all the printed money handed out, interest rates went to zero. The banks and realtors made trillions on loans for 2nd homes and investment properties in resort areas. Now housing that was previously used for employees is scarce, rents have skyrocketed. I have a 20 something year old employee that lives in a 5th wheel at an RV park. Its $1750 a month. 400 sf studio apartment that hasn't been updated since the 70's will be closer to $2,000 a month.

So if we want all this stuff to get cheaper everyone has to pay back all the extra loot the gubment handed out. Realtors should give back their commissions. Banks give back the fees. 2nd home owners need to relist the property at what they paid for it, etc...

Inflation damages were outsized on the lower paid workers and lower cost industries.

I hear you man. I have zero experience in the food industry aside from waiting tables in college, but we’ve experienced a lot of the same impact in the manufacturing world over the last 4 years. After all, everything we do is based on cost of material, labor, and logistics, and to your point… which one of those has gotten cheaper since 2020?

Now you throw tariffs into the equation on goods from Mexico and China, then steel and aluminum, and it’s a genuine cluster. Thankfully, my company’s not as bad off as some because we made a mad dash to regionally localize a lot of our supply chain starting back in ‘21, but that doesn’t protect you from all the skyrocketing expenses mentioned in my first paragraph.

It feels terrible saying this, but if we could be given a chance to rewind the clock 4-5 years and reconsider all this check writing, free business loans, etc, I think there’s a case to be made for just letting natural selection play out. All that stimulus may have helped the markets bounce back, but it sure created a lot of messes elsewhere.

 

[grinningmule]

^^^ Obviously doesn't understand how much money it takes to support my employees' hooker needs.

After meeting said employee.... I'd say about 3.50 on the high side for support..... Per month.

 

[johnson86-1]

It feels terrible saying this, but if we could be given a chance to rewind the clock 4-5 years and reconsider all this check writing, free business loans, etc, I think there’s a case to be made for just letting natural selection play out. All that stimulus may have helped the markets bounce back, but it sure created a lot of messes elsewhere.

I don't think there's any question there is a case for it.

The question is can you make a case for the approach we actually took? I don't think you really can but would love to hear it. Outside of the people that just made bank off of forgiveable PPP loans and ERC, basically everybody would be better off now if we had just encouraged work from home where possible but otherwise just went on with our lives and let people exercise discretion based on their individual circumstances.

We should be enjoying a significant drop in mortality now as a result of "bringing forward" all those deaths from COVID, but we really haven't seen that to my knowledge. We somehow did enough harm with our response to COVID that we have basically offset that impact.

 

[PooPopsBaldHead]

After meeting said employee.... I'd say about 3.50 on the high side for support..... Per month.

One of my other friends said he's like if Shaggy from Scooby Doo smoked meth instead of weed.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

My cousin says Spain... I have never gone and am afraid this country redneck would not fit in.

They love pork

Ask for Jamon Iberico and you’ll be good

 

[dorndawg]

I don't think there's any question there is a case for it.

The question is can you make a case for the approach we actually took? I don't think you really can but would love to hear it. Outside of the people that just made bank off of forgiveable PPP loans and ERC, basically everybody would be better off now if we had just encouraged work from home where possible but otherwise just went on with our lives and let people exercise discretion based on their individual circumstances.

We should be enjoying a significant drop in mortality now as a result of "bringing forward" all those deaths from COVID, but we really haven't seen that to my knowledge. We somehow did enough harm with our response to COVID that we have basically offset that impact.

This is certainly one opinion.

 

[grinningmule]

Or crack...lol

One of my other friends said he's like if Shaggy from Scooby Doo smoked meth instead of weed.

 

[FrontRangeDawg]

I don’t really have any specific point here, but has anyone else suddenly realized that it costs about 5x more to take a simple, 3 day weekend trip than it did ten years ago?

And I’m not talking about Barbados or a Mediterranean cruise here. I’m talking about stuff like a 3-day family excursion to Hot Springs. Even with driving, you’re gonna get hit with a $1000 hotel bill, another $750 easy on dining/drinks, $75/person to go to a 17n magic show or museum…. Then if your kids want to hit Magic Springs, get your card out for another $750, and lord help you if your family trip involves Disney or Universal instead.

I’ve always known that you better do some financial planning if you’re flying anywhere or headed to Disney, but I swear that even driving 5 hours to some place like St Louis, Branson, or Atlanta has dang near gotten unaffordable. Do yall just foot the bill or try to get around it with cheaper alternatives?

We went to Costa Rica (Grecia, then Jaco) for 13 days after looking at a trip to the Outer Banks for 5 days and finding that the NC trip was going to be about $1,200 more expensive. We spent a total of $2,500 all in for Costa Rica, including a rental car for a few days. We did have flights on miles, but we were going to use those to fly to Norfolk.

American travel is ridiculous, mostly because of lodging prices from what I can tell. Everyone's side hustle is overcharging for an Airbnb now.

 

[She Mate Me]

It feels terrible saying this, but if we could be given a chance to rewind the clock 4-5 years and reconsider all this check writing, free business loans, etc, I think there’s a case to be made for just letting natural selection play out. All that stimulus may have helped the markets bounce back, but it sure created a lot of messes elsewhere.

It's pretty likely that very little of the crazy **** we did to "conquer" COVID was necessary.

And I strongly believe way more lives ended and were ruined by the stupid and arrogant actions of multiple levels of government than the virus (which was also btw likely government issued). We should be talking about this every day, laying blame and riding people out of their positions of power never to return.

There I said it.

 

[L4Dawg]

Living in Europe on an American income puts you among the rich.

In some places.

All of this goes back to all the COVID stimulus in 2020 and 2021. Service workers either stayed home and got paid or moved up their career ladder. Complaining about restaurant and hotel prices is like complaining about why the bank won't give you a 2.75% mortgage rate anymore. The banks aren't price gouging at 7.0% and neither are hotels and restaurants with $15 burgers.


Food and hotel service wages have nearly doubled in the past 5 years. Regulation by the town, county, state, and feds have continued to increase. Wholesale food costs have gone up 60-80% as well. All my consumables (like latex gloves you definitely want food service workers wearing) are made in China and will triple in price. Insurance has skyrocketed.

Businesses have to run on a cost allowing profit margin. A really profitable restaurant is going to profit about 10%. The biggest factor in determining menu prices is what we call prime costs. Food + labor should equal +/- 60% of revenue.

So if my hamburger raw food cost was $2.50 and the labor to make it was was $2.50 in 2019.... I could sell it for $8.50 and hit my margins. ($5.00/.60 = $8.33) Fast forward today and it costs $4.50 for the raw food and $4.50 for the labor I have to sell it for $15. ($9/.60 = $15).

Its really bad in vacation/resort areas. Along with all the printed money handed out, interest rates went to zero. The banks and realtors made trillions on loans for 2nd homes and investment properties in resort areas. Now housing that was previously used for employees is scarce, rents have skyrocketed. I have a 20 something year old employee that lives in a 5th wheel at an RV park. Its $1750 a month. 400 sf studio apartment that hasn't been updated since the 70's will be closer to $2,000 a month.

So if we want all this stuff to get cheaper everyone has to pay back all the extra loot the gubment handed out. Realtors should give back their commissions. Banks give back the fees. 2nd home owners need to relist the property at what they paid for it, etc...

Inflation damages were outsized on the lower paid workers and lower cost industries.

Excellent post.

 

[MSUDOG24]

Nope. Outside of Disney they are a great couple, good golf partner, great to go out to dinner with or grill out with, first person to volunteer to help us move, loves college football, but Disney turns both of them into a 12 year old with a Mountain Dew buzz.

Just kidding but have to say the more you added to the story the more, let's just say, "wow, who knew" it became.

 

[Podgy]

It really is absurd what boomers did to younger generations on this one. A lot of them are living high on the hog and pricing out younger people with money transferred to them from those same younger, poorer people they are pricing out.

It's a shame people don't realize how much of the employer side of social security taxes they bear in reduced wages. They'd riot. If you assumed our current earnings stayed flat from now until we hit 62, our social security and medicare taxes over our life, if invested until 62 in something like the S&P, would produce something like a $4.25M nest egg in todays dollars. It's insane to take 15% of somebody's earnings for 40 years and then be like, we're going to replace less than 30% of your income and we're going to have to steal from younger, poorer tax payers to do it.

Young Americans generally support this system of wealth transfer.

 

[Podgy]

It's pretty likely that very little of the crazy **** we did to "conquer" COVID was necessary.

And I strongly believe way more lives ended and were ruined by the stupid and arrogant actions of multiple levels of government than the virus (which was also btw likely government issued). We should be talking about this every day, laying blame and riding people out of their positions of power never to return.

There I said it.

About 1 million Americans died from Covid (spare me the "died with or died of and I did my own research stuff") but our response and the lies from top officials did damage a lot of lives, especially the lives of young Americans who had to learn online (not much learning). We knew sooner than officials admitted that it was the elderly and not the young who were most at risk but we kept masking little elementary school kids long after it was necessary. A lot of young Americans have emotional issues, educational deficits and there was the uptick in the murder rate in a number of cities and the general absurd policies after the racial reckoning because of George Floyd. Our leaders, and many of our citizens, didn't respond in a mature manner. Some leaders and experts aren't at all interesting in mentioning they were wrong and lied to the American people. There definitely was a lot of fraud with those federal handouts to individuals and businesses, some of which didn't help businesses survive.

 

[Dawgbite]

Just kidding but have to say the more you added to the story the more, let's just say, "wow, who knew" it became.

They live among us!

 

[Podgy]

I like travelling, btw, which is why I don't give anything to NIL. I contribute a little in other ways.

 

[johnson86-1]

Young Americans generally support this system of wealth transfer.

They do but people support a lot of things when they aren't presented the costs or tradeoffs. Support for all kinds of government spending goes down when any context regarding tradeoffs is provided.
If young Americans understood that they're effectively paying almost double the amount they see in FICA, and understood what that amount should get them in retirement if they saved that amount (less the cost of disability insurance), and understood all they are getting is a "promise" that future workers would be taxed to give them money, I'm not sure how many would support it.