OT: The Identity Theft of Mitch Mustain

NYC-Husker

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I watched this documentary on Amazon Prime last night, and was pretty blown away by it.

I remember the story from years ago, mainly that Mitch's mother had requested a meeting with Houston Nutt and staff at Arkansas when her son was playing there. The whole back story wasn't public at that time, but that whole situation became a mess. Houston Nutt proved to be a zero in terms of character (not all that surprising, all things considered), but I didn't realize all the drama that was in the locker room at Arkansas those years.
 
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CC_Lemming

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I was considering making a thread about this too, as I finished it in the last week. I wouldn't consider it one of my favorite documentaries, but I think anyone who spends a lot of time on this message board would get something from watching it.

About 3/4 of the way through it starts profiling Mitch's life after football and how Razorback fans just love to get their rocks off belittling the guy, as if they've done something so much more important or better with their lives (at one point some obese hillbilly is getting interviewed in a bar, talking about how classless Mitch, the irony).

Anyway, it provided me with some perspective and definitely made me a little more sympathetic to Mitch and high profile athletes in general (Kenny Bell came to mind specifically). It did nothing but reinforce to me the absurdity of how some "fans" feel so entitled that they're in a position to comment, criticize, and impugn another's character without solicitation or warrant.

If the roles were reversed, I don't think the spotlight would be too kind to some of us on here.
 

TruHusker

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I was considering making a thread about this too, as I finished it in the last week. I wouldn't consider it one of my favorite documentaries, but I think anyone who spends a lot of time on this message board would get something from watching it.

About 3/4 of the way through it starts profiling Mitch's life after football and how Razorback fans just love to get their rocks off belittling the guy, as if they've done something so much more important or better with their lives (at one point some obese hillbilly is getting interviewed in a bar, talking about how classless Mitch, the irony).

Anyway, it provided me with some perspective and definitely made me a little more sympathetic to Mitch and high profile athletes in general (Kenny Bell came to mind specifically). It did nothing but reinforce to me the absurdity of how some "fans" feel so entitled that they're in a position to comment, criticize, and impugn another's character without solicitation or warrant.

If the roles were reversed, I don't think the spotlight would be too kind to some of us on here.

I have said this many times - few on here would stand up to the intense scrutiny on their own jobs the same way we do college football players. The intensity and skill that is required to compete is unreal.
 

Husker.Wed._rivals

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I have said this many times - few on here would stand up to the intense scrutiny on their own jobs the same way we do college football players. The intensity and skill that is required to compete is unreal.
Very true and I also agree with CC about people getting too wrapped up in following players. On the other hand, when I do my job I don't get the rush of 90,000 people who just laid out a C-note (or more) cheering. And I am not recognized in restaurants and have adoring people asking me for autographs and selfies. For every yin there is a yang.
 
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jteten

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I was at the University of Arkansas when all of this went down. The kids/parents from Springdale were entitled and tried to enact their own little coup....and it failed. I am incredibly confident that Mitch would sign up for a do-over if he could. That Hog team had 3 NFL RBs, and Mitch wasnt prepared to be patient or handle the incredible scrutiny that comes with being anointed the Hogs savior and a local hero. If Mitch wouldve kept his head down and played ball, the grief he took wouldnt have been as extreme. It is unfair? Hell yes, but I dont feel sorry for him.

You never know how things wouldve worked out had he chose another destination out of high school.
 

Diplomat_Dean

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Anyway, it provided me with some perspective and definitely made me a little more sympathetic to Mitch and high profile athletes in general (Kenny Bell came to mind specifically). It did nothing but reinforce to me the absurdity of how some "fans" feel so entitled that they're in a position to comment, criticize, and impugn another's character without solicitation or warrant.

If the roles were reversed, I don't think the spotlight would be too kind to some of us on here.

It's not limited to college football "fans", it's the whole world of social media - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Mesage Boards, & Snapchat. Social media is probably one of the greatest thing ever, but it also is the worst in terms of social division, misinformation, and personal interaction. The hate spewed on them without fear or repercussions is immense. Somedays I wish there was a world without Facebook, Twitter, etc.
 
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ThrowBones92

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Very true and I also agree with CC about people getting too wrapped up in following players. On the other hand, when I do my job I don't get the rush of 90,000 people who just laid out a C-note (or more) cheering. And I am not recognized in restaurants and have adoring people asking me for autographs and selfies. For every yin there is a yang.

I get it, and I agree about the performing in front of 90k fans. But you're assuming that all athletes, and celebrities in general, enjoy being recognized and asked for autographs and pictures wherever they go. I think its hard for people like us to understand that the loss of privacy they "enjoy" isn't something all of them like or want.

For the players who have few narcissistic tendencies (and even some who have them), losing your ability to enjoy a meal with family and/or friends and generally be in public without being interrupted pursued for pics and autographs or even a conversation is part of the territory but I would not say its a "perk" to be enjoyed. Granted, there are plenty of other perks, but the loss of privacy that comes with any type of fame has got to stink. I didn't even mention the negative pieces to being recognized everywhere you go. The jealousy and hate is out there, well-known athletes always have to protect against the haters, the people who try to provoke a reaction, etc.
 

CC_Lemming

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It's not limited to college football "fans", it's the whole world of social media - Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Mesage Boards, & Snapchat. Social media is probably one of the greatest thing ever, but it also is the worst in terms of social division, misinformation, and personal interaction. The hate spewed on them without fear or repercussions is immense. Somedays I wish there was a world without Facebook, Twitter, etc.

Those are good points. The mentality has probably always been there, but social media has given that mentality a platform and very likely exacerbated it. It's so easy for all of us to be commentators now and tell everyone our opinion, and as you point it, in doing so make comments that reflect our biases, ideologies, and thoughts that would be better of filtered or never seen at all. Those remarks attract like-minded thinkers and only further entrenches those biases, or draws the ire of those who don't share them, which in most cases probably has the same effect. I guess part of what I regret is not that many fans feel entitled and as if the players owe them something. We probably all feel that way at a certain level and always have (e.g., we all expect good effort). What I regret most is that people now have a platform from which to say those things without consequence.
 
Jun 30, 2016
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I was considering making a thread about this too, as I finished it in the last week. I wouldn't consider it one of my favorite documentaries, but I think anyone who spends a lot of time on this message board would get something from watching it.

About 3/4 of the way through it starts profiling Mitch's life after football and how Razorback fans just love to get their rocks off belittling the guy, as if they've done something so much more important or better with their lives (at one point some obese hillbilly is getting interviewed in a bar, talking about how classless Mitch, the irony).

Anyway, it provided me with some perspective and definitely made me a little more sympathetic to Mitch and high profile athletes in general (Kenny Bell came to mind specifically). It did nothing but reinforce to me the absurdity of how some "fans" feel so entitled that they're in a position to comment, criticize, and impugn another's character without solicitation or warrant.

If the roles were reversed, I don't think the spotlight would be too kind to some of us on here.
"The irony".....
 

CC_Lemming

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"The irony".....

The whole point of the post is to suggest that some people's opinions lack warrant and are expressed for no reason other than to belittle. Making negative judgments about other people, which we all do, always involves an element of superiority, a looking-down on the other. That's what makes it a judgment of their character as opposed to, say, advice. I'm not denying that nor am I denying that I do it.

The irony in this case is that the woman criticizing Mitch for being a Momma's boy-loser-flame out-truck salesman was about 100 lbs overweight, sitting at a bar, and, by all appearances, had no basis from which to express her presumed superiority. If she had some title like, I don't know, psychologist, and articulated herself well, like Mitch did throughout most of the documentary, my reaction would have been different.

If you want to point the finger back at me for judging her, that's your prerogative and you wouldn't be wrong to do so. I would still insist that some people are better off keeping their opinions to themselves, and that's only ironic in this instance if she was in fact entitled to her opinion, i.e., she had good reasons for thinking it true. I am assuming she didn't, in large part because the documentary showed a complex story. Is it superficial of me to judge her so? Perhaps, but I at least knew Mitch's side of the story before I opened my mouth.

In any case, I won't sit here and pretend as if we live in a world where we don't judge each other, and the irony I was speaking to specifically is that involved when one seemingly has no right to do so. I do think the documentary is successful in showing that in this case she didn't, so I don't find it ironic to point that out.
 

timnsun

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The whole point of the post is to suggest that some people's opinions lack warrant and are expressed for no reason other than to belittle. Making negative judgments about other people, which we all do, always involves an element of superiority, a looking-down on the other. That's what makes it a judgment of their character as opposed to, say, advice. I'm not denying that nor am I denying that I do it.

The irony in this case is that the woman criticizing Mitch for being a Momma's boy-loser-flame out-truck salesman was about 100 lbs overweight, sitting at a bar, and, by all appearances, had no basis from which to express her presumed superiority. If she had some title like, I don't know, psychologist, and articulated herself well, like Mitch did throughout most of the documentary, my reaction would have been different.

If you want to point the finger back at me for judging her, that's your prerogative and you wouldn't be wrong to do so. I would still insist that some people are better off keeping their opinions to themselves, and that's only ironic in this instance if she was in fact entitled to her opinion, i.e., she had good reasons for thinking it true. I am assuming she didn't, in large part because the documentary showed a complex story. Is it superficial of me to judge her so? Perhaps, but I at least knew Mitch's side of the story before I opened my mouth.

In any case, I won't sit here and pretend as if we live in a world where we don't judge each other, and the irony I was speaking to specifically is that involved when one seemingly has no right to do so. I do think the documentary is successful in showing that in this case she didn't, so I don't find it ironic to point that out.
CC, I'm pretty sure nole fan was calling it irony since it came from a husker board... It being pointed out that Arkansas fan did this to Mitch just as husker fan does it to husker players. Pure troll on nole fan's part.
 
Jun 30, 2016
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Having someone from Nebraska refer to someone from Arkansas as an "Obese Hillbilly" is laughable for starters. Secondly, does this whole side show sound familiar to Husker fans? For 4 years Taylor Martinez was the quarterback at Nebraska and won lots of ball games for you all fine people. While he was there and to this day even after, he receives nothing but crap and is the butt of countless jokes for Nebraska fans! He is the punching bag for you all that Mustain is for Arkansas fans. What is also "ironic" is that the OP fails to realize that Taylor Martinez had done and is currently doing more with his life than 95% of the posters on this board. Just as he defended Mustain for doing more with his life that the Arkansas fans who criticize him.
 
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CC_Lemming

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Having someone from Nebraska refer to someone from Arkansas as an "Obese Hillbilly" is laughable for starters. Secondly, does this whole side show sound familiar to Husker fans? For 4 years Taylor Martinez was the quarterback at Nebraska and won lots of ball games for you all fine people. While he was there and to this day even after, he receives nothing but crap and is the butt of countless jokes for Nebraska fans! He is the punching bag for you all that Mustain is for Arkansas fans. What is also "ironic" is that the OP fails to realize that Taylor Martinez had done and is currently doing more with his life than 95% of the posters on this board. Just as he defended Mustain for doing more with his life that the Arkansas fans who criticize him.

I don't deny the general attitude toward Martinez but I was not one of them. Your post is full of misconceptions as they pertain to me. Its not ironic at all precisely because I don't and did not participate in the sort of slander you're accusing me and most Nebraska fans of.
 
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"Most Nebraska Fans" do participate in the Martinez bashing and that include she majority of the posters on this board. Regardless if you are spacifica;lay one of them or not the irony remains the same. What is also "ironic" is that Nebraska fans could and should learn a lesson from your point of just how ridiculous the "Obese Hillbilly" bashing Mustain is. What is sad though is many will just let it go over their head and continue doing what the Arkansas fan in this film did and continues to do.
 

timnsun

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"Most Nebraska Fans" do participate in the Martinez bashing and that include she majority of the posters on this board. Regardless if you are spacifica;lay one of them or not the irony remains the same. What is also "ironic" is that Nebraska fans could and should learn a lesson from your point of just how ridiculous the "Obese Hillbilly" bashing Mustain is. What is sad though is many will just let it go over their head and continue doing what the Arkansas fan in this film did and continues to do.
Glad you took the time to get to know us so well...

Sure, Martinez gets his fair share. Show me a school that doesn't have stupid fans towards their own players. At the same time, as many people as there are who bash Martinez over the years, there are an equal amount who defend him and thank him for his time st Nebraska. He was all B1G his junior year and was a phenomenal athlete.

You can continue to push your trolling agenda here as long as the mods let you, but the fact of the matter is, you're stupid if you think all of husker nation treats Martinez like Arkansas fan treats mustain. If it's as bad as you claim, the documentary should have been about him...

So if you can't be respectful on another team's board, quit stirring the pot and go where you're wanted. Unless you've been banned from your own board, which seems entirely possible judging by your track record here.
 
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JohnRossEwing

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"Most Nebraska Fans" do participate in the Martinez bashing and that include she majority of the posters on this board. Regardless if you are spacifica;lay one of them or not the irony remains the same. What is also "ironic" is that Nebraska fans could and should learn a lesson from your point of just how ridiculous the "Obese Hillbilly" bashing Mustain is. What is sad though is many will just let it go over their head and continue doing what the Arkansas fan in this film did and continues to do.

Hmmm, he is kind of right. Most Husker fans were ******** towards TM. I wasn't, I loved the guy and said we would miss his long runs and 63% completion rate...
 
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Hmmm, he is kind of right. Most Husker fans were ******** towards TM. I wasn't, I loved the guy and said we would miss his long runs and 63% completion rate...

At the time, I thought his big plays weren't worth the turnovers,lack of leadership, and overall inconsistency.

With what I've seen the last couple years though, I'm starting to remember him like he was Aaron Rodgers.
 

CC_Lemming

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"Most Nebraska Fans" do participate in the Martinez bashing and that include she majority of the posters on this board. Regardless if you are spacifica;lay one of them or not the irony remains the same. What is also "ironic" is that Nebraska fans could and should learn a lesson from your point of just how ridiculous the "Obese Hillbilly" bashing Mustain is. What is sad though is many will just let it go over their head and continue doing what the Arkansas fan in this film did and continues to do.

This doesn't even make sense. The "irony does not remain the same" because to be ironic I would have to be making the same mistake you're accusing the class of people making of which I am not a member. The connection you're trying to draw simply isn't there, so there is no irony.

You can't even claim it's ironic in general, because again, being a Husker fan doesn't automatically make you a TA basher.

And the general lesson has nothing to do with Nebraska fans specifically. It is a fan issue in general. No fan bases, including yours, are exempt.
 

jteten

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Hmmm, he is kind of right. Most Husker fans were ******** towards TM. I wasn't, I loved the guy and said we would miss his long runs and 63% completion rate...

The loudest is never the majority. I was always on board with Martinez. I remember well some of the fan nonsense regarding TMart, but rest assured, it was in the fan minority. Most fans dont obsess this stuff like message board posters. And for the record, many Hog fans blamed the entire Springdale kids ordeal on Nutt.
 
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spinner4_rivals42045

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"Most Nebraska Fans" do participate in the Martinez bashing and that include she majority of the posters on this board.

I think there is a difference between bashing a kids play and bashing a kid in general. I was on this board (or RSS back then) many times stating how badly we needed a new QB and how awful Martinez was @ QB. I always said, he seems like a great kid and that I felt sorry for him. I do for any of our players that shouldn't be playing.

Current year example, Ross Dzuris @ DE. I feel bad that the kid is in the position he's in. He's out of his league and shouldn't be the starting DE @ NU. He's just not good enough of a football player. I mean no ill will towards the man and if anything, I am dam proud of him and his heart to compete. He just doesn't have the ability to be a good football player. If heart was all you need, he'd be tops. And if heart was all you needed, a ton of us would be playing football. But I'll never bash the kid (well outside of this topic / thread)

To me, the frustration is NEVER on the player. It's usually a coaches fault. Coaches fault can be many things, (recruiting, inability to coach up players, nepotism, favoritism, etc) and I don't feel bad criticizing coaches. I do feel bad criticizing players and honestly really stopped talking smack about players on this board after T-Mart. Truth is, coaches make a lot more money then most people make. Pay me $500 K a year and you can call me a waste or a jerk every freaking day of the year. And that's why coaches get paid so much more now then they did in TO's days. They have to deal with a lot of criticism and they know this. HCMR knew dam well that the fans would be much more hurtful in Lincoln then they ever would at Oregon State but he was compensated for that . If coaches were being paid like most people, I'd never say a word. But since they aren't, they should earn their paycheck. Anyways, I am going into a different argument.

But regardless if I think a player sucks or not, I wont call them out. Not now. Not ever again. They are trying and I get that.
 
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CC_Lemming

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I guess a good question would be is what is "bashing" or "ripping" a player?

Here is a shot.

Mere criticism would tend to focus on the play itself, what the player failed to see or do. This could involve saying something like, "Dzuris should have seen the fake hand off" (e.g., when the opposing QB throws for a TD off of play action).

Bashing or ripping would additionally involve criticizing a player's intelligence or character. A clear instance of the latter, for me, is questioning a player's effort. Fans simply have no way of knowing if a player is giving 100%. All they have to go on is their perception of the way the play unfolded, and they often neglect the player's effort on the previous play, any injuries he may be dealing with, the assignments of his other teammates, and so on.

Various things could make it look like the player is not trying as hard as one would like, but the fact of the matter is the fan simply isn't in a good position to know. And the judgment is in any case motivated by a desired result not achieved, for which some explanation is sought. Explanations like "lack of effort" are easy and cheap when you see Dzuris trailing behind a halfback who runs twice his speed.

My stance is that fans are universally in a bad position to offer such explanations. Some who do analysis and do it well (very rare on this message board, but it happens), are better off and might offer legitimate ones. The coaches, by contrast, are in a good position to offer it, since they have a much better idea of the player's abilities, effort, and tendencies in practice.

Another example. If you call Tommy an "idiot" for throwing an interception, you're bashing and ripping. If you simply say something to the effect that he "shouldn't have thrown the ball," then you're offering criticism. Even if you say something like, "he is terrible at reading defenses," that could be legitimate criticism so long as one can point to instances as evidence. The focus of criticism needs to be on the play, the game, or habits evident across games, i.e., the player within the game, rather than on the player himself.

In my view, fans are never justified in bashing or ripping players. They can criticize the play of players all they want. Spinner's suggestion that one instead bash or rip the coaches is a possible alternative, since it is their specific task to achieve the desired outcome and they bear much more responsibility. While this would certainly be preferable, I think it is subject to many of the same limitations.
 
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