OT--Took my nephew on a tour of Rutgers

[HeavenUniv.]

So being an expert on all things Rutgers ( LOL), my sister and her husband entrusted me with taking my nephew, who is a Senior, on a tour of Rutgers recently.He has a 4.5 GPA (with AP courses) ,plays three sports,and has a 1260 SAT,but is going to take it again. Started out at the Visitors Center and spoke with an advisor who was VERY helpful. Richard Murray is also a professor in the Creative Writing Department. We must have spent about 45 minutes talking with him and he did not rush us at all,covering quite an array of topics. I learned some things I did not know--for example, Rutgers has "Quiet Dorms" and "Area of Study Floors." My nephew liked the buildings and campus at Busch,but he seems fairly intent on Business,so the Livingston campus is the place for that. He LOVED Livingston--I think it had just enough students,buildings, and open space for him. I haven't been in a dining hall in quite a long time and Livingston has about a zillion food choices. Took him in the various Business School buildings and no one seemed to mind. Drove over to College Avenue and toured the whole campus from Buccleuh Park to the new Barnes and Noble over to the Honors College, River Dorms and back to the Park. He had ZERO interest in College Avenue--I think it is too urban and crowded for his personality. The day was getting late,but we headed over to Cook and Douglas,but got stuck in crazy traffic jams headed over there on George Street. We just sort of drove around both campuses,but did not get out to walk. He seemed to think they were OK,but knew he probably would not be taking classes there.It is really amazing how much New Brunswick has improved since I was looking at colleges in 1766 ! I think if Rutgers were only Livingston, Rutgers would be his choice. Right now, it looks like Villanova is 1A, Rutgers is 1B, and still in the running are The College of New Jersey, UMass,Lehigh, and Lafayette. Still looking around and he has a few months to decide. If anyone knows any bad things for me to tell him about Villanova,let me know. LOL-----Thank you for anyone's input.

 

[Scarlet_Scourge]

They are all great schools, but they are not Rutgers.

Also the business building in Livingston is brand new and right next to a mini mall and the RAC.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

If he is the practical sort of fellow (or your sister is not going to pay the full freight..lol), you might want to start with the cost of a RU Business education vs. that of 'Nova and then compare the job outcomes.

RU wins that comparison by quite a large margin.

RU business undergrads are doing very well in Accounting, Supply Chain and Corp Finance within large NJ companies. Wall Street in on the rise. Consulting is still a tough nut to crack for RU.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Hudson,
My sister and her husband are well aware of the $ difference in the various schools LOL-- I am not familiar with the business world. Is there a significant difference in how people view a Villanova degree vs a Rutgers degree in Business fields ? Is that true in the Northeast,nationwide, or both ? How about the other schools I mentioned. --One thing that I emphasized with me nephew is that MANY kids change their mind once they get into college and that Rutgers offers just about any degree you can think of (although we don't have a Vet School yet).

 

[LevaosLectures]

So being an expert on all things Rutgers ( LOL), my sister and her husband entrusted me with taking my nephew, who is a Senior, on a tour of Rutgers recently.He has a 4.5 GPA (with AP courses) ,plays three sports,and has a 1260 SAT,but is going to take it again. Started out at the Visitors Center and spoke with an advisor who was VERY helpful. Richard Murray is also a professor in the Creative Writing Department. We must have spent about 45 minutes talking with him and he did not rush us at all,covering quite an array of topics. I learned some things I did not know--for example, Rutgers has "Quiet Dorms" and "Area of Study Floors." My nephew liked the buildings and campus at Busch,but he seems fairly intent on Business,so the Livingston campus is the place for that. He LOVED Livingston--I think it had just enough students,buildings, and open space for him. I haven't been in a dining hall in quite a long time and Livingston has about a zillion food choices. Took him in the various Business School buildings and no one seemed to mind. Drove over to College Avenue and toured the whole campus from Buccleuh Park to the new Barnes and Noble over to the Honors College, River Dorms and back to the Park. He had ZERO interest in College Avenue--I think it is too urban and crowded for his personality. The day was getting late,but we headed over to Cook and Douglas,but got stuck in crazy traffic jams headed over there on George Street. We just sort of drove around both campuses,but did not get out to walk. He seemed to think they were OK,but knew he probably would not be taking classes there.It is really amazing how much New Brunswick has improved since I was looking at colleges in 1766 ! I think if Rutgers were only Livingston, Rutgers would be his choice. Right now, it looks like Villanova is 1A, Rutgers is 1B, and still in the running are The College of New Jersey, UMass,Lehigh, and Lafayette. Still looking around and he has a few months to decide. If anyone knows any bad things for me to tell him about Villanova,let me know. LOL

Wow, "if it were only Livingston..."

Amazing how times have changed.

Also, did you show him Voorhees Mall? Hard to imagine a more picturesque college campus quad than that. I'm a College Ave guy through and through...I despise Busch. But to each his own!

 

[RUfinal4]

what other schools is he looking at? He sounds like a smart kid that may have a few choices on his plate?I hope the decentralized campus evironment is not a negative for him compared to the other schools he is assessing.

 

[LevaosLectures]

UMass is not a good option, IMHO. It's fine for what it is and if you live in Massachusetts, great, but I cannot imagine paying out of state tuition to attend what is a very generic state university. Villanova....fine school indeed, but who is paying for this? If it will be his own loans he should be discouraged again, unless he's getting a lot of financial aid. I think they are over $50k now! Lehigh and Lafayette, same deal. Again, it's not just about which campus you fancy. 20k a year in loans over four years is serious business. Make sure he keeps that in mind (if it's an issue).

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Hudson,
My sister and her husband are well aware of the $ difference in the various schools LOL-- I am not familiar with the business world. Is there a significant difference in how people view a Villanova degree vs a Rutgers degree in Business fields ? Is that true in the Northeast,nationwide, or both ? How about the other schools I mentioned. --One thing that I emphasized with me nephew is that MANY kids change their mind once they get into college and that Rutgers offers just about any degree you can think of (although we don't have a Vet School yet).

Of the group you mentioned, Lehigh has the best undergrad B School reputation and placement, leaving out money. That is a pure absolute view of all the programs mentioned.

'Nova is going to do well among its alum recruiting networks. They practice the Roman Catholic Mafia (of which I'm a card carrying HS member...so I'm not knocking it, it's just what we call it) form of recruiting. Whenever possible, they don't go outside the family. It's what RU alums OUGHT to be doing, but aren't quite there yet.

Lafayette is a great school, but won't have the cache in the business world that Lehigh does.

None of the schools mentioned touch RU for Supply Chain. We're in the top 5 in the country, Top 10 in the world in the discipline and the undergrad placements reflect that.

My advice to him, outside of general "feel" for where he wants to spend 4 years, is what does he think he wants to do professionally? The answer to that would drive where I would steer him. If you say big consulting or boutique investment bank and he wants to live in Philly, well then, money aside, it's Nova. Wall Street or central and north Jersey corp finance, then RU or Lehigh.

Dollar for Dollar, it's RU without question. BUt when you start to factor in potential scholarship money, etc., the conversation gets sticky.

I have an insider perspective on RU and would be happy to discuss here or offline. Just lemme know.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Levaos, He did like the very old buildings--Kirkpatrick,Winants,Voorhees Mall,etc.--I think what really turned him off was bus after bus after bus on College Ave. I would not call him shy,but leans to the more quiet and small group setting. Also NOT into the party scene. I told him he can find any type of kid at Rutgers and to not look at the school as a university of 35,000 in Piscataway/New Brunswick ,but as a school of 6-8,000 (Livingston approx. size) with an access to opportunities and events that a huge university has.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

And yeah, I missed UMass in the initial post.

Compared to the other schools, there is not a single reason why I would suggest UMass, unless he just likes to freeze his nuts off in February.

UMass has zero gravitas in a 90 mile radius of New Brunswick in the business world. And it won't do him any favors when it comes time to get his MBA or other graduate degree.

From a reputational standpoint, no compelling reason to consider them.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

Hudson,
Thank you for the info. and offer. I think he is a LONG way from deciding what he wants to do in business. His Dad has done consulting work for years,but I am not sure he has been exposed to other fields. I can't see him living or maybe even working in a big city,but you never know where life brings you. He seems to me like someone who would be more comfortable in a small to medium company setting,but people change from age 17 to 22,so who knows down the line. I have tried not to talk about the massive debt he and his parents will be taking on (even if he gets some schollie money) since that is something between him and my sister and brother-in-law. I hear there are kids coming out of school now with $100,000 in college loans--I can't imagine owing that much at age 22. I think the only reason UMass is in the field is because he has a cousin there and he saw the campus several years ago.

 

[brodo_rivals]

.It is really amazing how much New Brunswick has improved since I was looking at colleges in 1766!.

You must be really old now. :smiley:

 

[mal359]

UMass is just fine; I don't understand the bashing. Their CS department is top-tier.

As for business, Lafayette, CCNY, NYU, Penn, and Cornell are far and away the best.

 

[CuredbywinningRU]

Hudson,
Thank you for the info. and offer. I think he is a LONG way from deciding what he wants to do in business. His Dad has done consulting work for years,but I am not sure he has been exposed to other fields. I can't see him living or maybe even working in a big city,but you never know where life brings you. He seems to me like someone who would be more comfortable in a small to medium company setting,but people change from age 17 to 22,so who knows down the line. I have tried not to talk about the massive debt he and his parents will be taking on (even if he gets some schollie money) since that is something between him and my sister and brother-in-law. I hear there are kids coming out of school now with $100,000 in college loans--I can't imagine owing that much at age 22. I think the only reason UMass is in the field is because he has a cousin there and he saw the campus several years ago.

Right re UMass - it's main appeal for an out of state NJ kid is that it is in an absolutely (albeit cold) beautiful location. In terms of academic reputation, I'd pick RU.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

UMass is just fine; I don't understand the bashing. Their CS department is top-tier.

As for business, Lafayette, CCNY, NYU, Penn, and Cornell are far and away the best.

Penn, NYU and Cornell? You left out Harvard, Michigan and Stanford.

Did you actually read the question in the OP?

It seeks opinions on a list of schools--only one of which you mention above--for an undergraduate business education.

For a person who would likely reside in the NYC metro area, UMass would be a suboptimal choice for a business degree in comparison to RU, Lehigh, TCNJ, Villanova or Lafayette. That's all.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Hudson,
Thank you for the info. and offer. I think he is a LONG way from deciding what he wants to do in business. His Dad has done consulting work for years,but I am not sure he has been exposed to other fields. I can't see him living or maybe even working in a big city,but you never know where life brings you. He seems to me like someone who would be more comfortable in a small to medium company setting,but people change from age 17 to 22,so who knows down the line. I have tried not to talk about the massive debt he and his parents will be taking on (even if he gets some schollie money) since that is something between him and my sister and brother-in-law. I hear there are kids coming out of school now with $100,000 in college loans--I can't imagine owing that much at age 22. I think the only reason UMass is in the field is because he has a cousin there and he saw the campus several years ago.

He doesn't need to REALLY KNOW know, but a general inclination would also help guide the process.

There are two ways to approach the decision--setting aside where he feels most at home for the time being.

1. You can go overall reputation and then figure out what you want to major in/study once you get there.

2. You can narrow it down sooner than later and target the school that gives you the biggest advantage in that specific discipline.

The other thing you want to keep in mind is graduate school placement. Other than trading and sales specific jobs on Wall Street and CPA track jobs in big accounting, an MBA has become a must for this next generation. You'll be hard pressed to jump up the ladder in big bounds without an MBA--and we can debate the merits of the actual degree all we want, but the results are what they are.

RU's undergrad placements into top tier MBA programs is good and getting better. It's likely behind Lehigh and Nova at this stage though.

You could really write a book on mapping out the ideal strategy for an undergrad business major--when and where they should try and intern, in semester Co-ops, majors, MBA prep, networking, developing public speaking skills, etc.

 

[MozRU]

I have no idea why UMASS is on his list.

Very generic state school for New England kids. Odd.

Both are D1 for sports: If money is no issue. Nova. Then RU.

Lehigh, Laf and Bucknell - you go there because you down right want to go there.

 

[PatrickRU92]

I know something about Villanova--simply put, it is not worth the $.

 

[HeavenUniv.]

He seems to like the South (has been to Florida a ton of times).I could see him possibly living there down the line. Would an undergrad degree in Business from Rutgers pretty much open the door to an MBA program at most of the Florida schools ?

 

[RUfinal4]

Just saw the list of schools. I may have missed them initially,

All his choices are good.

UMass may be very similar as Rutgers in respect to being a large state school. Culturally the RU student population may be a little more diverse.

I know a lot of kids that prefer TCNJ over Rutgers because it is much smaller and centralized.

Lehigh and Lafayatte are great area priivate schools. He will have a great experience at both that can lead to tremendous networking opportunities. I was at the Lafayette campus once and thought it was very pretty with the big fraternity houses and close campus atmosphere.

 

[FanuSanu52]

Looking for a leash that you can lead your nephew around with so that he doesn't get drunk or handsy with the college lasses?

http://www.amazon.com/Rutgers-Scarlet-Knights-Leash-Color/dp/B005EQ3QL0

Matching collar: http://rutgersfever.com/store/rutgers-dog-collar

Or, if he's a puller: http://www.ebay.com/itm/RUTGERS-DOG...-FULLY-ADJUSTABLE-PUPPY-HARNESS-/171529132564

 

[CuredbywinningRU]

Villanova is far from an elite school, but as alluded to above by RUHudson, Nova is ahead of RU in placing kids right-out-of college in consulting jobs, albeit not necessarily with Bain, etc. But the bottom line is - (i) get a hold of the chart that each school has that lists what test scores and GPA get you into the various MBA schools and compare them -the lower the scores needed to get into quality MBA schools, the better the school and (ii) go to each placement office and look at the list of employers that recruit on campus or otherwise actively recruit that schools' alums. Those are the two best empirical measures of what is a "better school" in terms of opportunities for business majors (this is separate and apart from the issue of which school a particular student would enjoy/feel more comfortable at). Regarding the latter, my daughter is deciding on a school right now that is not necessarily the "highest ranked" of those she can go to, but it's certainly a quality school and one she felt she felt most comfortable at.

 

[Proud NJ Sports Fan]

Lehigh, not impressed with that school.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

My daughter took the official tour on Tuesday. She has been on campus probably 400+ times between swimming competitively at the Werblin Center, and attending football and bball games. Rutgers has always been on her list but she wants to go into nursing. Admission standards are much higher for that program than the general RU population so it is iffy right now. Additionally, other schools appear to offer much more scholarship money than RU will so those out of state options may net out as significantly less expensive alternatives. Applications to South Carolina and Florida State are going in this week to be quickly followed by Rutgers, Quinnipiac, James Madison, Florida Atlantic, East Carolina and Tampa. Most of these schools offer early action and I don't see the downside of knowing quickly.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

Another job placement metric that can be illustrative of the school's reputation is what % of students land jobs that are Leadership Development Program (LDP) roles. This is not applicable in white shoe banking or consulting, but is applicable in almost every Fortune 250 corp finance role, 2nd tier banks (Wells, PNC, M&T) and Consumer Products (CPG) marketing roles.

LDP roles are beneficial because they invest a lot of time and effort into those folks. They have an incentive to fast track high performers in their LDP programs.

An RU undergrad degree, with the requisite GMAT and GPA, will absolutely be fine for any MBA program in Florida.

That said, you want to get into the Top 50 for MBA programs--some even say Top 30--unless you go part time and your employer pays. That's a conversation for 7-8 years from now though. lol

Some MBA programs are outliers--such as RU. RU is ranked 48th, but is Top 10 in outcomes. They have one of the largest variations in those two rankings in the country though.

 

[CuredbywinningRU]

My daughter took the official tour on Tuesday. She has been on campus probably 400+ times between swimming competitively at the Werblin Center, and attending football and bball games. Rutgers has always been on her list but she wants to go into nursing. Admission standards are much higher for that program than the general RU population so it is iffy right now. Additionally, other schools appear to offer much more scholarship money than RU will so those out of state options may net out as significantly less expensive alternatives. Applications to South Carolina and Florida State are going in this week to be quickly followed by Rutgers, Quinnipiac, James Madison, Florida Atlantic, East Carolina and Tampa. Most of these schools offer early action and I don't see the downside of knowing quickly.

Interesting - another example how RU's lack of funds hurts in getting its share of quality students.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

My daughter took the official tour on Tuesday. She has been on campus probably 400+ times between swimming competitively at the Werblin Center, and attending football and bball games. Rutgers has always been on her list but she wants to go into nursing. Admission standards are much higher for that program than the general RU population so it is iffy right now. Additionally, other schools appear to offer much more scholarship money than RU will so those out of state options may net out as significantly less expensive alternatives. Applications to South Carolina and Florida State are going in this week to be quickly followed by Rutgers, Quinnipiac, James Madison, Florida Atlantic, East Carolina and Tampa. Most of these schools offer early action and I don't see the downside of knowing quickly.

Good luck to her!

 

[LevaosLectures]

UMass is just fine; I don't understand the bashing. Their CS department is top-tier.

As for business, Lafayette, CCNY, NYU, Penn, and Cornell are far and away the best.

As I said, it IS fine. I'm not bashing it. But I don't see any reason to go there out of state.

 

[LevaosLectures]

My daughter took the official tour on Tuesday. She has been on campus probably 400+ times between swimming competitively at the Werblin Center, and attending football and bball games. Rutgers has always been on her list but she wants to go into nursing. Admission standards are much higher for that program than the general RU population so it is iffy right now. Additionally, other schools appear to offer much more scholarship money than RU will so those out of state options may net out as significantly less expensive alternatives. Applications to South Carolina and Florida State are going in this week to be quickly followed by Rutgers, Quinnipiac, James Madison, Florida Atlantic, East Carolina and Tampa. Most of these schools offer early action and I don't see the downside of knowing quickly.

Wha? Man, ECU and FAU are HORRIBLE schools. Why would anyone spend out of state tuition money to go there?

 

[soundcrib]

My son is a first year Business School student but was assigned Perry Hall on Cook for his dorm. Didn't make sense to me and his mom. Livingston was his first choice, followed by College Ave. Nevertheless, he's enjoying his time and everything the college experience has to offer.

 

[ruhudsonfan]

My son is a first year Business School student but was assigned Perry Hall on Cook for his dorm. Didn't make sense to me and his mom. Livingston was his first choice, followed by College Ave. Nevertheless, he's enjoying his time and everything the college experience has to offer.

That's a hump and a half to get to Marketing class...lol

typical RU

glad he's enjoying it though

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Wha? Man, ECU and FAU are HORRIBLE schools. Why would anyone spend out of state tuition money to go there?

Florida Atlantic is a direct admit nursing program. Not all schools are; you have to apply after 3 or 4 semesters in many. ECU is her safety school and nursing program has a good reputation. Her initial test scores were only so so thus ECU made the list. She has improved her scores significantly since so she may not actually apply at this point. Just hasn't been crossed off the list. All schools have good programs and bad programs.

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Interesting - another example how RU's lack of funds hurts in getting its share of quality students.

Agree with you. She is also an EMT cadet and volunteers in the orthopedic section at Chilton hospital. Some schools take a more holistic approach; other just look at the numbers (similar to some posters here just looking at the numbers of stars for a recruit). I haven't gotten a good sense whether Rutgers is just a numbers evaluation or how much things like being an EMT factor in. Regardless, all but one school will miss out on a good kid, ie. good student, fairly well behaved (has her moments) and 3 sport athlete with 7 varsity letters through her junior year.

 

[Veiox]

My daughter took the official tour on Tuesday. She has been on campus probably 400+ times between swimming competitively at the Werblin Center, and attending football and bball games. Rutgers has always been on her list but she wants to go into nursing. Admission standards are much higher for that program than the general RU population so it is iffy right now. Additionally, other schools appear to offer much more scholarship money than RU will so those out of state options may net out as significantly less expensive alternatives. Applications to South Carolina and Florida State are going in this week to be quickly followed by Rutgers, Quinnipiac, James Madison, Florida Atlantic, East Carolina and Tampa. Most of these schools offer early action and I don't see the downside of knowing quickly.

Does your daughter go to Montville HS? I ask because I noticed Montville mentioned when you posted. My sister is a senior T&F recruit from Montville. Her official visit is the weekend of MSU game. I hope it goes really well because she just got back from an official to the other team from the very first football game and they want her and did an incredible job convincing her that is the place to be. My dad is at a loss for words...

UPDATE: My sister just mentioned her by name and so I guess she goes to MTHS.

 

[CuredbywinningRU]

Agree with you. She is also an EMT cadet and volunteers in the orthopedic section at Chilton hospital. Some schools take a more holistic approach; other just look at the numbers (similar to some posters here just looking at the numbers of stars for a recruit). I haven't gotten a good sense whether Rutgers is just a numbers evaluation or how much things like being an EMT factor in. Regardless, all but one school will miss out on a good kid, ie. good student, fairly well behaved (has her moments) and 3 sport athlete with 7 varsity letters through her junior year.

Very impressive RUBaseball and good luck to her.

 

[theRU]

FWIW, Rutgers has more national pull than any of those schools listed. Interviewing out on the west coast has sold me on RU more than ever.

 

[CuredbywinningRU]

Florida Atlantic is a direct admit nursing program. Not all schools are; you have to apply after 3 or 4 semesters in many. ECU is her safety school and nursing program has a good reputation. Her initial test scores were only so so thus ECU made the list. She has improved her scores significantly since so she may not actually apply at this point. Just hasn't been crossed off the list. All schools have good programs and bad programs.

Like so many state U's outside of the Northeast, FAU, probably the 6th most important state U in Florida, is extremely well financed and has a very nice campus (albeit new and lacking ivy-covered old buildings, etc) and has many academic buildings reflecting many more major gifts than RU has had despite it's being a new school. Fore example, FAU recently received from the family foundation of an alum a gift of $14M (that's more than the total of all $1M gifts in RU sports history) to build a new student-athlete academic center. FAU is not RU academically, but big donations eventually make average schools into very good school and the U of Miami's academic renaissance in the last 15 years is a great example of that. FIU is also heading in that direction with its new and well funded law and medical schools. Again, far from elite, but the recipient of far more major gifts than RU despite being only 50 years old.

 

[CuredbywinningRU]

My son is a first year Business School student but was assigned Perry Hall on Cook for his dorm. Didn't make sense to me and his mom. Livingston was his first choice, followed by College Ave. Nevertheless, he's enjoying his time and everything the college experience has to offer.

It's examples of this that hurt RU in terms of student recruitment. Good luck to your son!

 

[rubaseball78_rivals]

Does your daughter go to Montville HS? I ask because I noticed Montville mentioned when you posted. My sister is a senior T&F recruit from Montville. Her official visit is the weekend of MSU game. I hope it goes really well because she just got back from an official to the other team from the very first football game and they want her and did an incredible job convincing her that the place to be. My dad is at a loss for words...

She does. Good enough to play D3. Nursing programs including whether direct admit or not, size of school, preference for going south rather than north and total cost are much higher priorities so she is not planning on playing in college other than possibly on a club team. And for those who rail against bringing children to games, also would like a school with a major football team as she has been attending RU games since she was 3 months old.

 

[DHajekRC84]

Work for a major CPG in Northern NJ and we clearly recruit RU heavy for Supply Chain and Finance. Seems like half the finance people I have worked with over the past 12 years were from RU..including each of the last two guys to head up the Dept.
(unfortunately only a couple had ANY interest in Rutgers Football or Basketball)